Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

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jdrobbo
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Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by jdrobbo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:41 am

As you’ll probably know, I’m a huge fan of Cork and I was delighted that he played so well last night in Westwood’s absence. However, having read numerous comments about Wood and Cornet not clicking as effectively last night, it got me thinking.

I think Ashley Westwood is still very underrated, particularly where his range of passing is concerned. Quite conservative when first signed, Dyche has got him playing forward and quickly, and we lacked that quick, snapped first time ball into the box, or defence-splitting pass that Westwood so often gives us.

It’s surprising just how much Lowton/JBG cut a ball back for Westy to ping straight over and around the back line. As a result, I think an essential supply was cut off last night.

Just my thoughts, but I’d expect much more from Wood and Cornet on Saturday and I think Westy will be key to that.

J


Incidentally, both Tarky and Westy (each suspended last night) are in the top 14 for most accurate long passing stats in the premier league….four of the top eight are wolves players).
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Papabendi » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:45 am

Cork is the main problem

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by warksclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 am

Papabendi wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:45 am
Cork is the main problem
His legs and stamina have gone, but in no way did he let us down last year

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Roosterbooster » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 am

I thought Cork had a decent game last night, and I'm not his biggest fan over the last 2 seasons. But Westwood's transition influence is massively underrated. People who complain that he doesn't pass the ball forwards enough clearly don't bother watching him in games. Or how we play in general. He makes so many of those passes that take us from midfield to attacking threat. Need him back asap
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:48 am

Papabendi wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:45 am
Cork is the main problem
Can't agree with that. Cork brings a lot to the team but the OP is right, we missed Westwood last night.
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by summitclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:49 am

Absolutely missed Westy. Crucial to us scoring.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:09 am

I dont think he’s underrated by those understand the game, he’s arguably our most natural/technical footballer.

He might not be the powerhouse Viera that some scream for but I think he’s brilliant

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Boss Hogg » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 am

Cork did ok last night although he’s getting past it at this level. Westwood is a vital player for us but we need someone much better alongside him if we are to progress.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by RVclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:18 am

Agreed he was missed last night. Sometimes can be frustrating with a lack of composure when he tries that channel ball and it's not on which therefore turns over possession. But he wouldn't be playing for Burnley if he nailed every one and that range of passing is something both Cork/Brownhill aren't capable of.

Having said that I thought Cork also filled in nicely last night, I haven't checked the passing stats but I'd hazard a guess he had the highest completed ratio across the midfield. Would like to see Westwood and Cork in against Newcastle, Jack has been in this situation before and has the experience to help dig us out.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:20 am

We need two centre mids that will add height, strength, ball control and goal scoring ability - all things sadly missing in our current four (and age is against three of them)
Experience counts for some things but this is now our key area for recruitment
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by warksclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:30 am

WE all know about Westwood-a great pro and performer. Having been last night though take nothing away from Cork & Brownhill, who certainly played a big part in our well earned point
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by bobinho » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:39 am

Good is westy. I can understand why his performances seem to pass people by, but he’s always busy and usually he looks for the forward pass first before doing anything else.

I fear even with him back, whilst wood is in this type of form, even Man City’s midfielders would struggle to feed him chances he could score from. Shame really as when he’s “on it” he’s a proper handful.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by SalisburyClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:52 am

Everything revolves around Westy and he was a massive miss last night. This is one of the first points we've won when Westy hasn't played.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by AlargeClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:53 am

warksclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 am
His legs and stamina have gone, but in no way did he let us down last year
While his legs have gone ( he’s lost a yard for sure ) his fitness/stamina levels almost 100% haven’t . He wouldn’t be anywhere near the squad if he was fully fit .

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by NewClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:09 pm

Westy is a massive miss.

Hopefully nicely rested for Newcastle.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by claretspice » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:49 pm

Can't live with Westy, can't live without.

I don't think there's any question that he's a good player and that his ability to play quick, first time passes into space is a huge part of our attacking armoury, along with his set plays. If anything, I'd say we're too reliant, so of course we missed it last night. That's partly a good reflection of Westwood's talent, but it's also a reflection that our attacking play has become a bit one dimensional at times. We need to that channel ball back to being a route to attack, not our primary mode of attack. That involves keeping the ball better, for longer.

And - against that, I thought we looked more solid under pressure than we have at times this season, which I think at least in part was because Cork adds something in that regard. I also thought that a couple of times in the second half when we were under pressure, Cork added a calmness to enable us to play out that we've chronically lacked at times. He carried the ball and got us up the park and relieved the pressure on the back 4 and prevented us from getting stretched. We also didn't give the ball away in positions where we can get caught on the counter attack as we have at times this season, with Westwood the biggest culprit (e.g. his booking v palace for hauling down a man breaking onto our back four after a poor turnover of possession by him).

I actually thought we missed Westwood's ability to pressurise high up the pitch more than his use of the ball last night because we rarely won the ball back inside Wolves' half. And in terms of our possession play, I thought we missed Tarkowski more than Westwood. Not for the first time when he's been out, we missed him more when we had the ball than when we were defending (which Collins did with aplomb). But Tarks has an underrated ability to move the ball from back to front/wide accurately and quickly that we didn't replicate last night. Perhaps missing both him and Westwood on the same night was always going to impact our play considerably.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by IanMcL » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:51 pm

Cork did fine last night. Sees things early and able to geymt in the way to stop moves building. However, Westwood offers better forward movement and support.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by bfcjg » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:56 pm

Hate scapegoats so won't call Cork who did ok. I agree with the OP. I had Westwood as a strong contender for player of the season last season.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Bigvince » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:08 pm

Of course we missed him last night, he’s had 23 assists in the last three and a bit seasons, and also chips in with the odd goal.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Spijed » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm

Question is, who's the better player to counteract ASM at the weekend?

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by warksclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:28 pm

claretspice wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:49 pm
Can't live with Westy, can't live without.

I don't think there's any question that he's a good player and that his ability to play quick, first time passes into space is a huge part of our attacking armoury, along with his set plays. If anything, I'd say we're too reliant, so of course we missed it last night. That's partly a good reflection of Westwood's talent, but it's also a reflection that our attacking play has become a bit one dimensional at times. We need to that channel ball back to being a route to attack, not our primary mode of attack. That involves keeping the ball better, for longer.

And - against that, I thought we looked more solid under pressure than we have at times this season, which I think at least in part was because Cork adds something in that regard. I also thought that a couple of times in the second half when we were under pressure, Cork added a calmness to enable us to play out that we've chronically lacked at times. He carried the ball and got us up the park and relieved the pressure on the back 4 and prevented us from getting stretched. We also didn't give the ball away in positions where we can get caught on the counter attack as we have at times this season, with Westwood the biggest culprit (e.g. his booking v palace for hauling down a man breaking onto our back four after a poor turnover of possession by him).

I actually thought we missed Westwood's ability to pressurise high up the pitch more than his use of the ball last night because we rarely won the ball back inside Wolves' half. And in terms of our possession play, I thought we missed Tarkowski more than Westwood. Not for the first time when he's been out, we missed him more when we had the ball than when we were defending (which Collins did with aplomb). But Tarks has an underrated ability to move the ball from back to front/wide accurately and quickly that we didn't replicate last night. Perhaps missing both him and Westwood on the same night was always going to impact our play considerably.
We also missed him for our free kicks and corners. His delivery of a flat powerful corner puts even the very best PL defences and goal keepers under pressure. Never exploited this last night and we tried 3 different free kick takers. Also Tarks is a big miss when we attack corners

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by summitclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:40 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm
Question is, who's the better player to counteract ASM at the weekend?
Brownhill all day long, as he did in the last game.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:45 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm
Question is, who's the better player to counteract ASM at the weekend?
Depends how they line up.

If they line up how they did against Norwich before the sending off.

They had Joelinton on the left, Wilson down the middle and ASM on the right.

McNeil and Taylor would have to double up on him

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by ElectroClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:53 pm

Agreed, reinforcements urgently needed in the New Year.
Cork did quite well, though.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Burnley87 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:58 pm

Technically our best footballer at the club. Very rarely puts a poor set piece in, and when he finds that pocket on the right hand side causes problems when he puts the ball in the box. Also plays quick and brilliant at the ball in behind when it’s needs. His work ethic is also there for everyone to see

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by KRBFC » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 pm

bobinho wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:39 am

I fear even with him back, whilst wood is in this type of form, even Man City’s midfielders would struggle to feed him chances he could score from. Shame really as when he’s “on it” he’s a proper handful.
I've always said Wood's a bang average footballer, his all around game is pants, he's just worth playing because he's capable of knicking a goal, especially from corner kicks. I thought Jimenez was a little quiet last night especially 2nd half and he's dropped a level since that skull fracture but every time he got the ball you saw the difference in levels between the two and exactly what we lack. A physical striker with a ton of assets to his all around game.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 pm

None of them are decent Premier league standard midfielders but at the same time they are all at least adequate. Whichever combination we play we have a enought to grind out the points to stay up but at the same time we are always going to look a bit weak and soft centred

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Spijed » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 pm
I've always said Wood's a bang average footballer, his all around game is pants, he's just worth playing because he's capable of knicking a goal, especially from corner kicks. I thought Jimenez was a little quiet last night especially 2nd half and he's dropped a level since that skull fracture but every time he got the ball you saw the difference in levels between the two and exactly what we lack. A physical striker with a ton of assets to his all around game.
Apart from those in the top sides there aren't many better strikers than Chris Wood.
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:32 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:24 pm
Apart from those in the top sides there aren't many better strikers than Chris Wood.
Nonsense. If wood is as good as your saying he wouldn’t be at Burnley.

He’s a good striker than when In form can score a lot of goals. However his all round play is really poor for this level.

Burnley’s playing style compliments him very well.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by AfloatinClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:00 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm
Question is, who's the better player to counteract ASM at the weekend?
Perhaps we could loan one of the Vunipola brothers from Saracens; on second thoughts, perhaps we should try and get them both.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by warksclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:24 pm
Apart from those in the top sides there aren't many better strikers than Chris Wood.
You need to watch a few more games not involving Burnley

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Stayingup » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:06 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:18 am
Agreed he was missed last night. Sometimes can be frustrating with a lack of composure when he tries that channel ball and it's not on which therefore turns over possession. But he wouldn't be playing for Burnley if he nailed every one and that range of passing is something both Cork/Brownhill aren't capable of.

Having said that I thought Cork also filled in nicely last night, I haven't checked the passing stats but I'd hazard a guess he had the highest completed ratio across the midfield. Would like to see Westwood and Cork in against Newcastle, Jack has been in this situation before and has the experience to help dig us out.
What about paying Westwood, Cork and Brownhill together?

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Stayingup » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:10 pm

Just read that we after a guy playing Ligue 1 with Angers. A midfield player called Angelo Fulgini. Angers FC are 8th in Ligue 1.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by warksclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm

I think this run of one defeat in eight is giving the team belief. Avoiding another defeat the weekend would strengthen the belief that we cant be beat by the majority of sides. Might be good to go Cornet, Brownhill, Cork, Westwood, McNeil in midfield and Wood up front. Then we go 442 with 15-20 minutes to go and substitute one of the 5 for Vydra or Rodriguez. Then go for the winner

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:15 pm

I actually thought last night was one of Cork's better games tbh, he didn't do much wrong. We all know we need better quality in midfield and hopefully that will be addressed in January. I've said it before, if someone doesn't have an ability at a certain level then that is the clubs fault and not the player, if a player doesn't put the effort in then it's fair for us to criticize - Not sure we can aim that at our lads, they graft.
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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by Elizabeth » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:52 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:06 pm
What about paying Westwood, Cork and Brownhill together?
In those early games when teams were overrunning us in midfield in the second half and nicking points off us , Dyche chose not to use this option.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by dougcollins » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:57 pm

claretspice wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:49 pm


And - against that, I thought we looked more solid under pressure than we have at times this season, which I think at least in part was because Cork adds something in that regard. I also thought that a couple of times in the second half when we were under pressure, Cork added a calmness to enable us to play out that we've chronically lacked at times. He carried the ball and got us up the park and relieved the pressure on the back 4 and prevented us from getting stretched. We also didn't give the ball away in positions where we can get caught on the counter attack as we have at times this season, with Westwood the biggest culprit (e.g. his booking v palace for hauling down a man breaking onto our back four after a poor turnover of possession by him).
Totally agree with that spice, and as much as I like Westy, certainly what I noticed last night.

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Re: Ashley Westwood - underrated and missed last night

Post by tiger76 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:15 pm

A club of our limited resources is always going to miss 2 key men when they aren't available, however it's encouraging that we still managed to dig a result out despite their absence, and both Collins and Cork were fine last night considering they haven't been playing much regular footy this season.

As others have correctly pointed out where we really missed Westwood was on set-piece deliveries, he's generally the only one who seems to able to put decent balls into areas which troubles the opposition defenders, and as set plays are a large part of our game that's when his absence became notable for me.

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