Just thought i would pop in to see what the general perspective was. wish i hadn't . im off out now.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:29 pm

Cornet going off was the Turning point, both teams knew how key he is to our attack. Quickly followed by a gift of a goal and we were always going to be chasing.

Except there was barely any chasing until the last 5 minutes. Prior to that we just allowed them to win most second balls and run at us. No urgency, and little effort although I will give credit to Gudmundsson, Collins and Taylor.

I thought that we actually played quite well. The goal shouldn't have counted on account of Wilson pushing Pope in the back prior to him catching the ball and falling over the other bloke. There was a definite push in the back. Quite a shove. We had chances and should have scored. You can hardly blame the midfield.

No he hasn't, you can see that by how much they try.

We are going down because we are crap, plain and simple.

Tribesmen wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:58 pm

Lock this please

Why? This is not some messianic cult where criticism of the great leader is not allowed, or is it. I sometimes think so. God forbid anyone should dare to call Dyche out for HIS team’s non performance. It’s not as though it’s the first time, is it?

I suspect there’s a chance Dyche might not be around by new year at this rate.

The owners will be getting twitchy that there investment is going to disappear

No Dyche hasn’t lost the dressing room, he just cannot recruit effectively and evolve with the speed of the game. We do the same thing with the same players.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:43 pm

I suspect there’s a chance Dyche might not be around by new year at this rate.

The owners will be getting twitchy that there investment is going to disappear

What investment?

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:46 pm

What investment?

Haha good point

I don't think he's lost the dressing room.
Sticking with 4-4-2 is his Achilles heel. particularly when you can't afford really top CMs

Certainly looked dazed and confused on the touchline.

I feel very sorry for the supporters that travelled and paid to watch that it was genuinely abysmal stuff, Seemed we had no clue how to pass a football five yards. If we are relying on that midfield two we are going down, simple as.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:43 pm

I suspect there’s a chance Dyche might not be around by new year at this rate.

The owners will be getting twitchy that there investment is going to disappear

Sure. And it's their

There is so much to be grateful for with our manager. Tactics and ability to change shape in a game are not good though. We must be the only team in the PL thats never played 3 at the back-something he and the coaches should have tried pre-season. I think for a PL coaching team to have NEVER tried it is a major failing. For me having Collins, Tarks, Mee there makes you a major defensive unit. THen you can deploy Roberts or Lowton one side and Taylor the other side, but also allowing 3 central midfielders to start and so be less over run. I am not saying we cannot start most games 442, but injuries and the need to change shape in a game are thwarted by not having this in your locker

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:06 pm

There is so much to be grateful for with our manager. Tactics and ability to change shape in a game are not good though. We must be the only team in the PL thats never played 3 at the back-something he and the coaches should have tried pre-season. I think for a PL coaching team to have NEVER tried it is a major failing. For me having Collins, Tarks, Mee there makes you a major defensive unit. THen you can deploy Roberts or Lowton one side and Taylor the other side, but also allowing 3 central midfielders to start and so be less over run. I am not saying we cannot start most games 442, but injuries and the need to change shape in a game are thwarted by not having this in your locker

Interestingly, there was a comment at the end of last season in one of the papers saying teams should have worked out how to overcome our 4-4-2 but they'd never managed it.

Obviously it may be a creaking system at the moment but for the majority of the time it's been hugely successful. When teams like Brentford & Norwich try and play out from the back despite not being suited to them it's clear SD has a more no nonsense approach which has worked for the most part.

Whether it's a season too far remains to be seen, but no-one can argue with 4-4-2 in seasons gone by.

Help I can't find the dressing room

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 pm

Interestingly, there was a comment at the end of last season in one of the papers saying teams should have worked out how to overcome our 4-4-2 but they'd never managed it.

Obviously it may be a creaking system at the moment but for the majority of the time it's been hugely successful. When teams like Brentford & Norwich try and play out from the back despite not being suited to them it's clear SD has a more no nonsense approach which has worked for the most part.

Whether it's a season too far remains to be seen, but no-one can argue with 4-4-2 in seasons gone by.

If 442 is so good why are none of the other 19 PL managers using it-even if only occasionally

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:46 pm

If 442 is so good why are none of the other 19 PL managers using it-even if only occasionally

Because they've all got more money to spend. And those teams who don't will be relegated within a season or two. That's why Norwich who have little to spend don't last long at this level.

And yet we've had more success than the likes of Brighton will have (getting into Europe etc.)

KefkaClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:58 pm

I think our midfield is just genuinely terrible and none of them would start for any other team in the league.

Sad but true, at the top of their games they can be ok, but they don't play at the top of their game often enough to be adequate.
You can never question them for effort, so there is no point in getting on their backs, but we desperately need better.

Sean needs to start thinking outside the box, we've become very stale, and unless we try something new, nothing is going to change with the results.

After yet another sterling display Collins, who has always looked comfortable at this level, holds the key. I still want to see him play in front of the back 4, not as a midfielder, but to fill the gap between the back line and midfielders, and to retain the backline when Charlie or Lowts go forward. There are times when they both seem reluctant to press on, because they are aware they are leaving a hole behind them, if we fill that hole they can attack with a lot more confidence.

I doubt SD will lose the dressing room, but the more frustrated they get with the results, the more pressure they are going to feel. We've been excellent at it in the past, but this season has a different feel about it. It doesn't look good.

I have no other suggestions for the next starting line up, other than bringing in Collins. Whatever we do if we start with the same XI, barring injuries, we'll be waving a huge white flag.

Dyche is a boss
He doesn’t need to be liked
A combination of fear and respect is his strength