Burnley boss Sean Dyche, speaking to BBC Sport: "The mistake changed the game. First half we put on a positive display but we couldn't open them up. It was decent. A lot of solid performances. It is about adding those details. Second half there was people working but we couldn't open them up. It has been a challenge this season to find those details.

"They looked nervous. We were better than them first half and looked more of a threat. The goal against the run of play calmed them, down. Second half they had something to hang on to. The crowd got behind them instead of against them We have been a on a run of performances. We need to turn them into wins.

I thought at the time it was a foul [for the goal] but looking back it is a clumsy challenge. It is one of them things. Their striker came alive when it popped out of his hands. We talk to our strikers about that. Not all goals can be pretty goals. At that stage we were going well. It changed the game.

"It leaves us working. The Premier League has never been an easy task. Every season is tough and is work for us. A challenge. There is a lot of football to be played and we have been down this road before. The players are not a million miles away. The next game is going to come around and you have to play it."

Deluded

That's a fair summary. He's spot on

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Deluded

What do you really expect him to say?

i would say that's fairly accurate. However, his inability to change our fortunes going forward over the last few seasons is pretty damning for him imho

Lately I think he's having a bit of a pop at the strikers.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:50 pm

i would say that's fairly accurate. However, his inability to change our fortunes going forward over the last few seasons is pretty damning for him imho

Well seeing as the board haven't backed him to buy new forward players since 2019 I'm nit sure how much he can do there

Fair comments. Summed it up. Said to my son before the corner before their goal we needed to see it through to HT. we didn’t and that made a big difference.

Support completely changed second half.

He knows we are looking down the barrel - same words, same solid performances, same details.
Luck's out with no help from any officials all lead to a not quite good enough team. He needs to find something quickly and make some drastic changes,as he has been forced to do in past seasons, which eventually turned out well. Roberts might be one, Maxwell out injured could be a turning point to find a new way of playing. Something, just something because it can't get as bad as that again.

Spot on tbf ,balanced

I'd agree. We did start quite brightly and Maxwell had 2 very decent chances to put us 1 0 up. This game was always going to be about the first goal, we made a mistake to give it to them and he huffed and puffed, but that was it.

My main concern is Dwight and JBG. Dwight just seems to have gone backwards as a player, literally most times.

JBG just looks like his injuries have caught up with him and he's terrified of any sort of contact/ 50, 50 and he just offloads the ball somewhere as soon as possible.

Hope not gone, but worrying times.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:52 pm

Lately I think he's having a bit of a pop at the strikers.

And so he should. Our lack of goals in open play from our forwards has been shocking

He's not wrong. We weren't great at any point in the game, but they were capper imo and the Geordies can celebrate as much as they like this evening, but both teams looked nailed on for relegation on today's showing. The Pope blunder doesn' really look a foul on VAR, BUT, they are usually (wrongly!) given which is galling, gave them something to hold on to and waste time for unfortunately. We had chances and half chances and not taking them means we'll almost certainly go down.

BabylonClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:52 pm

Well seeing as the board haven't backed him to buy new forward players since 2019 I'm nit sure how much he can do there

really ? you don't think the aimless hoofing the ball in to corners might be better being replaced by another style of football that plays to the players strengths in some games ?

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:53 pm

My main concern is Dwight and JBG. Dwight just seems to have gone backwards as a player, literally most times.

One of the highlights of last season was seeing Dwight pick up that ball and drive at the opponents, something he just doesn't seem to be doing this season, as a whole.

You can bet your bottom dollar it'll be same again next week though. 442, Westy to whack it forwards, Woody to try and chase it down, rinse and repeat.

Something just has to change now. The tactics are shite and some of those players are woefully out of form. By God he's paid handsomely enough to recognise when things just aren't working.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:55 pm

And so he should. Our lack of goals in open play from our forwards has been shocking

Yes, but it's really not like him to do that.
For whatever faults SD may have I've never heard him blame the players.

Nothing outrageous there.

Media trained to deflect.

Nothing unusual.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Deluded

And what would you like him to say?
Think he is absolutely spot on myself

"We were better than them first half and looked more of a threat."

This is how opposition teams "out-burnley" us... and wear us down early on. Yet he still doesn't get it.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:55 pm

And so he should. Our lack of goals in open play from our forwards has been shocking

The fact that Burnley were the 3rd lowest scorers in the PL last season (the other 2 sides were relegated) suggests that the problem was there for all to see for quite a while but has not been rectified.

My main concern is Dwight

I said a few years back that SD would coach the flair out of McNeil and I have been proved right. His trajectory has been on a downward slope for a while now. You have to ask the same of our other creative talents like JBG and Jay Rodriguez who have gone backwards under this managements stewardship. I struggle to think of many players that have improved their creativity or passing under SD but I can think of loads that have stagnated and in fact gone backwards! I have absolutely no faith what's so ever that SD will get the best out of Cornet either. He will coach out any creativity he has, out of him too!

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 pm

I said a few years back that SD would coach the flair out of McNeil and I have been proved right. His trajectory has been on a downward slope for a while now. You have to ask the same of our other creative talents like JBG and Jay Rodriguez who have gone backwards under this managements stewardship. I struggle to think of many players that have improved their creativity or passing under SD but I can think of loads that have stagnated and in fact gone backwards! I have absolutely no faith what's so ever that SD will get the best out of Cornet either. He will coach out any creativity he has, out of him too!

He’s a number 10 in a team that play a rigid 4-4-2. Needs a move for the good of his career tbh

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 pm

I said a few years back that SD would coach the flair out of McNeil and I have been proved right. His trajectory has been on a downward slope for a while now. You have to ask the same of our other creative talents like JBG and Jay Rodriguez who have gone backwards under this managements stewardship. I struggle to think of many players that have improved their creativity or passing under SD but I can think of loads that have stagnated and in fact gone backwards! I have absolutely no faith what's so ever that SD will get the best out of Cornet either. He will coach out any creativity he has, out of him too!

On the flip side, would we have survived for so long in the PL playing any other way, with the players we have?

You only have to look at Fulham & Bournemouth to see that expansive football doesn't work if you want to stay in the Prem with players that aren't suited to those methods. They look like they may both come up, but unless they are more pragmatic than previously it will be a short stay.

Pfftt excuses again.

Change it then, after a weeks work on the training ground, I could have rolled out thst performance, and done those "match changing subs"

He’s clearly not happy with his strikers, and I think it’s justifiable. None of them (bar Cornet, who isn’t really a striker but is being played there because he’s actually shooting) are really offering much, truth be told.

Rodriguez has put himself about in his last two sub appearances and should get a start I feel.

I agree that Jay, whilst not a world beater atm by any means, has shown enough to deserve more than a bench/cameo role because Wood really isn't showing owt tbh.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:24 pm

On the flip side, would we have survived for so long in the PL playing any other way, with the players we have?

You only have to look at Fulham & Bournemouth to see that expansive football doesn't work if you want to stay in the Prem with players that aren't suited to those methods. They look like they may both come up, but unless they are more pragmatic than previously it will be a short stay.

I love your weird comparisons, Spijed,
Would we have survived.........? We'll never know.
Also, the change in formation would not necessarily bring in a more expansive style. It may, however, prove to be a better way of dealing with other sides which use that formation.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Deluded

Not deluded at all
He is spot on

Needs to change it where he can, maybe Roberts for Lowton, Lennon for JBG and Jay for Wood.

I think we certainly missed an opportunity I think had he started with Vydra pestering the defence it would have created more space while we winning all the 50/50’s in the first half, and we looked lively. The goal changed it, once again the professionalism of keeping the system meant not chasing the game too hard too soon… the timing of the switch being flicked either on field or on the bench needs reviewing. We are solid but we need fluidity to use the attacking players at our disposal. Dyche’s job it to find that balance quickly. It was always going to be tough once the mistake was made, at least we did not cave and could have snatched at least a point if we’d made better decisions… that come with confidence.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:29 pm

I love your weird comparisons, Spijed,
Would we have survived.........? We'll never know.
Also, the change in formation would not necessarily bring in a more expansive style. It may, however, prove to be a better way of dealing with other sides which use that formation.

I think it's fairly obvious we wouldn't.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:50 pm

I think it's fairly obvious we wouldn't.

Wouldn't what?

If that’s what he said, I think it’s a pretty fair assessment.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:51 pm

Wouldn't what?

Survive. Why do you think we've lasted so long playing 4-4-2 when other sides in the Prem on small budgets who try to play different formations generally tend to only last a season or two?

We simply haven't got the players or budget to play another style.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:54 pm

Survive. Why do you think we've lasted so long playing 4-4-2 when other sides in the Prem on small budgets who try to play different formations generally tend to only last a season or two?

TBF, you or I have no particular knowledge of whether our survival has been because of 4-4-2 or despite it.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:54 pm

Survive. Why do you think we've lasted so long playing 4-4-2 when other sides in the Prem on small budgets who try to play different formations generally tend to only last a season or two?

We simply haven't got the players or budget to play another style.

Did we play 4-4-2 when we finished 7th? I thought we played 4-4-1-1 which it could normally be argued isn't much different but of course Hendrick was playing a deeper role in the hole.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:52 pm

Lately I think he's having a bit of a pop at the strikers.

Do we have some ?

Maybe he is starting to feel the pressure and realising he is not getting the support for his loyalty

What he misses out is something like ...." they made tactical changes second half and were more on the front foot and moved themselves up the pitch, this stopped us form holding the ball up when up front. And we just watched it like the rest of our fans.
We will try again next week with the same, failing tactics because we like these tactics and they worked for a couple of year"

McNeil has 1 assist this season. Not because he is playing badly but because SD has made him more defensive minded. We only had 2 quality crosses today and they were both in the last minutes after Dwight was released to play wide left where he is one of the best. If Wood gets the service he will score.

The end is nigh, thanks for the memories SD a season to far after years of poor recruitment, the fat lady is clearing her throat.

Safron wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:20 pm

The end is nigh, thanks for the memories SD a season to far after years of poor recruitment, the fat lady is clearing her throat.

Thankfully the manager, players and majority of fans who attend games don't give up so easily, especially with so much of the season remaining.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:04 pm

Do we have some ?

Well he signed them.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:15 pm

McNeil has 1 assist this season. Not because he is playing badly but because SD has made him more defensive minded. We only had 2 quality crosses today and they were both in the last minutes after Dwight was released to play wide left where he is one of the best. If Wood gets the service he will score.

It's ok SD having a go at the strikers, but the way he sets up negates the supply. Recent opponents have doubled up on Taylor as he is just about our only supply line.

Dyche’s comments are OK but his team’s performance is not. A lot of backwards passing then the inevitable hoofball which poor old Vydra and Wood have to aimlessly run onto. McNeil a bit of a busted flush whose first movement is nearly always backwards and Tarks long ball distribution in the 1st half was shocking. On a positive note JBG had a good game and nearly scored with a freekick, Taylor had a good game but Pope’s error was of schoolboy proportions.
Day save by excellent Newcastle real ale, the locals could not believe their luck!

CleggHall wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:26 pm

Dyche’s comments are OK but his team’s performance is not. A lot of backwards passing then the inevitable hoofball which poor old Vydra and Wood have to aimlessly run onto. McNeil a bit of a busted flush whose first movement is nearly always backwards and Tarks long ball distribution in the 1st half was shocking. On a positive note JBG had a good game and nearly scored with a freekick, Taylor had a good game but Pope’s error was of schoolboy proportions.
Day save by excellent Newcastle real ale, the locals could not believe their luck!

all the times I have watched Dwight McNeil I have rarely seen a pass for him to run on to. He seems to constantly receive the ball by coming inside onto his left foot, facing our defenders

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:15 pm

McNeil has 1 assist this season. Not because he is playing badly but because SD has made him more defensive minded. We only had 2 quality crosses today and they were both in the last minutes after Dwight was released to play wide left where he is one of the best. If Wood gets the service he will score.

I don’t think he’s playing more defensively I think teams are doubling up on him and he’s moving inside- whether that’s Dyche telling him to or McNeil is going looking for the ball, who knows?

You’re right though, he needs to get out wide and get working with Taylor down the left for 90 minutes again.

This game won’t define our season.


I say it will.


Certainly it will define it more than the Brentford result and that’s a fact.