Klopp on 5 subs, using Burnley as an argument point.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm

Taken from a Liverpool site who transcribed his press conference...

On whether he would be in favour of five substitutions being permitted again in Premier League games…

"Yes. Look, I think pretty much a lot of teams… so, we have to put competition aside. [It is said] City has better subs than I don’t know, Southampton, and we have better subs than Burnley or whatever. Yes, that’s probably true, whatever that means exactly because it’s the Premier League and they still can cause us problems and all these kind of things. But if you talk about the quality without playing, the transfer market and all these kind of things, then that’s the case. The problem is, this intensity for a top-class footballer in England is definitely at the edge. A top-class player in England plays 38 Premier League games [and] two cup competitions so even when we don’t go to the final, let’s just put on another five - 43 [games]. They have international games with their national teams because pretty much all of them play for their national teams, so eight, nine, 10 games a year. Plus Champions League games, the further you go the more games there are, so you come pretty quickly in an area with more than 50 games. My first season here we played the [Europa League] final, it was the 64th game [of the season] if I am right. So yes, now we have squads and we can swap, but there are some key players, they only get out when they are injured – that’s how it is.

Now the decision about it is made, we realised again in the managers’ meeting that the decision is made by 14 clubs. I think you need 14 votes to change it and that is something wrong. As an example, Burnley, I am not sure how many players of them play international football. When our players have three games, they have no game. So they play 38 Premier League games, cup games, another two, three, four, that makes it 42. We talk about an issue which some clubs definitely have, some players definitely have, but it’s decided by other teams and because you make kind of a competition of it it’s like, ‘No, they are better than us’ and stuff like this. That’s a real problem, I have to say, that’s a real problem. It is the right decision, especially in this moment because you bring players back after a COVID infection or after an injury and because of the games we have to play, they have to play immediately and then they go out again because you cannot get them off after 60 minutes because you have to change others and all these kind of things. That’s a real problem. This wonderful game is so wonderful because usually the players on the pitch are in good shape, are well trained, have recovered well and go for it and that’s why we love the game. But now the situation is clear, if we don’t do that then it is just more difficult.

One example is, the best league in the world and the most intense league in the world is the only league in Europe and maybe the world, I don’t know, with still three subs. That’s not right, it’s not. We came through to here but I still think we have to talk about, we have to think about it and we should change it, but it’s the Premier League. Richard Masters said he would like to make this decision by himself but he can’t because you need the vote and other clubs which have other problems, different problems, say, ‘No, we don’t have to have five subs’ so I don’t see a real chance to change it, to be honest"

depechedingle · Post by **depechedingle** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:34 pm

This is being argued quite vociferously on Twitter.

Most definetly in the minority with his views is Herr Klopp

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:37 pm

He's right, there should be less internationals, and make the Champions League a straight knock out.
5 subs then wouldn't be necessary.

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:38 pm

I tried reading it but I've absolutely no interest in anything this idiot has to whine about.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:44 pm

I don't know who those "key players who only get out when they're injured" are. In the season he mentions, the only outfield player with more than 50 starts was Nathaniel Clyne 52. and after that Emre Can 46.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:47 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:37 pm
He's right, there should be less internationals, and make the Champions League a straight knock out.
5 subs then wouldn't be necessary.

Totally agree with you, and TBH I'd bin the LC off as well, most teams don't treat it seriously anyway.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:50 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:37 pm
He's right, there should be less internationals, and make the Champions League a straight knock out.
5 subs then wouldn't be necessary.

The Champions League should be for Champions only and a knock out comp.
We could call it the European Cup.
The CL is purely about the corrupt EUFA making money.

claretgimmer · Post by **claretgimmer** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:51 pm

Being involved in `all these` Champions league matches, cup matches etc also bring in the extra revenue that allow these clubs to acquire the better players throughout their squads so if they have this quality in depth then rotate it, a luxury that Burnley and a few other clubs will never have, obviously until Liverpool are owned by an oil rich state their depth of quality will be less than Man City so if Jurgen really wants a level playing field, then talk about maximum wages and limited overseas players per squad and reduced European cup involvement. Having said that it will never happen, as for individuals at the EPL making individual decisions that affect all of us please God NO, they couldn`t even sort this covid fiasco out as a collective.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:43 pm

Klopp is of course looking at the situation from his club's point a view which is understandable.

Van Dijk is an obvious key player. He was out last season and it showed.

He is right about the intensity of each game and there must be a limit to the number of games it is reasonable to expect players to play. And the frequency. What is that limit, both physically and mentally? Has research been done on this?

I think his argument, from his club's point of view, is perfectly reasonable.

Klopp also seems to be saying that such decisions (about substitutes in this case) should not be made using the current voting arrangements, namely that a decision requires at least 14 votes. He objects to minnows like us having any sort of meaningful say in how the league is run. I would guess he wants either Masters to make the decision himself (under pressure from the big clubs no doubt) or by the big clubs themselves, ignoring the situation the likes of Burnley face.

This is what we had when the 'Big Five' decided they would set up The Premier League - so they could get their hands on more of the money and football became less socialistic and more like real life with haves and have nots.

I don't know what the answer is but I don't like it that clubs like us seem to be in this league almost like we were receiving hand outs from 'the great and the good'.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:44 pm

League cup is a revenue stream for the EFL. We could get rid of it if the Premier Leage were prepared to give the EFL a bigger cut. I'm sure Jurgen will vote for that.

Also looking forward to him condemning the expanded Champions League.

We should have let these whingers sod off to their super league.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:56 pm

He’s gets more angry the better Man City play.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:04 pm

I liked Klopp when he first came to the Premier League.

Over the last few seasons, he’s gradually turned into a whining, stroppy, entitled two hat. I can’t yet work out if he is just trying to turn everything to his advantage or if he’s just been Liverpooled.

He’s not quite there yet, his whining, high pitched Scouse accent is still very much a work in progress, but hell, if Jan Molby can develop one, there’s hope for him yet.

Stockbrokerbelt · Post by **Stockbrokerbelt** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:05 pm

His first aim should be at their own respective owners who insist on reaching champions league as a must for income, not to mention the pre season friendlies & end of season friendlies that he never moans about. He has given us the dirty tag, we tackle to hard tag & the dangerous tackle tag yet our card count says different. It’s about time the bullying idiot was told to shut up, we will be blamed on the media for this issue all because of that idiot…

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:25 pm

How precious are these people these days?
Burnley 1959/60 played 50 games including League and FA Cup. No subs allowed and we had Brian Miller, Ray Pointer and Jimmy Adamson playing all 50 games, Adam Blacklaw, John Angus and Brian Pilkington playing 49 games, Jimmy Robson 46 games, Alex Elder and John Connelly 42 games. That is 9 out of a team of 11 playing the majority of the games.

In 1960/61, when we were in the European Cup, FA Cup, League Cup and the League we played a total of 62 matches and used 24 players.
There are plenty of teams who have done similar over the years, however, modern football is so precious!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:26 pm

Perhaps he should reflect on the fact that the 'most intensive league in the world's intensity is partly down to not playing a team and a half, during a match.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:40 pm

He just needs to spend his untold millions on players who can stand the pace - and he should also give his teeth back to the original owner

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:47 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:40 pm
He just needs to spend his untold millions on players who can stand the pace - and he should also give his teeth back to the original owner

Well at least he can go back to working as one of the Banana splits

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:56 pm

He recently played Salah in a dead rubber Champions League game.

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:20 pm

I will now try out my potential New Years resolution which is to say what I think in as few words as possible.

Klopp when he talks, gets on my wick.

k90bfc · Post by **k90bfc** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:45 pm

He is only talking out of his horses mouth,Burnley FC,really grates on him,Proper,Club,Great History,Pr0ud Town,Proud Fans,He does not know what PROUDSVILLE means !UTC.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:58 pm

k90bfc wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:45 pm
He is only talking out of his horses mouth,Burnley FC,really grates on him,Proper,Club,Great History,Pr0ud Town,Proud Fans,He does not know what PROUDSVILLE means !UTC.

68 games undefeated until Burnley and Ash Barnes rolled into town.

Chew on that fact Jurgen.

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:59 pm

"“Football is not fair because my squad is packed full of elite international players and Burnley’s is not”"

Biggest hypocrite in football..... said it since pretty much day 1. Nice guy Jurgen, as long as everything is going his way, complete myopic view on the game otherwise.

SouthLondonexile · Post by **SouthLondonexile** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:33 pm

I am really sorry I do not understand the point he is making.
Or this a part rant setting out a number of half made points.
Nobody ever thought it wasn’t tough at the top.

alboclaret · Post by **alboclaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:33 pm

What he is saying is correct. I agree with him. But as it is it works for us so happy days.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:35 pm

So his point is having 5 subs is to guard against injuries due to the intensity of the game, meaning teams can perform better and to the their top levels.

Now Frank the Brentford manager has come out and said he wants 5 subs as his midfielders run around a lot after Man City so it will also benefit the lesser sides in keeping up their work rates for 90 minutes.

For me they are both valid points, but why stop there. Why not allow unlimited subs, or rolling subs? Both issues would be solved.

…Because it’s not the rules of the game!! F-cking get on with it!! Three subs is more than enough and very very very occasionally you may have to play 2 games in 3 days. Just crack the f-ck on! Rant over

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:09 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:56 pm
He’s gets more angry the better Man City play.

That’s essentially it. It’ll be Pep next week if they drop a couple of points.

It’s a load of rubbish anyway. They build these vast squads, stockpiling all the best talent in the world and then still want to play their best XI in every game. It’s their job to manage a squad, not change the game even further to suit their own agenda.

These ‘big 6’ managers hold all the cards as it is. Seriously, how easy do they need to make it for themselves before they’re content?

HuncoatClaret · Post by **HuncoatClaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:57 pm

I suggest that the Liverpool should offer Graham Alexander a playing deal. Even through he's 50 years old now, they'll get 70 games a season out of him for the next 3 years.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:07 pm

Klopp. He's never got over thefact he couldn't handle Dyche when he backed away from him after following him when we won at Anfield. Teutonic Tw0t.

depechedingle · Post by **depechedingle** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:14 pm

Herr Klopp is ein knopfkopf

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:23 pm

His point about looking after the players health is correct but everyone knows that isn’t why him and Gardiola want 5 subs. When they were allowed 5 subs I can’t remember either using all 5 too many times which goes against his point totally.

LordBob · Post by **LordBob** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:38 pm

look Oberfuhrer Klopp is a German, a proud German no doubt and I commend that but whenever Germans and subs are mentioned in the same conversation it doesn't sit well with a lot of us.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:18 pm

LordBob wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:38 pm
look Oberfuhrer Klopp is a German, a proud German no doubt and I commend that but whenever Germans and subs are mentioned in the same conversation it doesn't sit well with a lot of us.

Lets hope this idea gets depth charged!!!

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:51 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:25 pm
How precious are these people these days?
Burnley 1959/60 played 50 games including League and FA Cup. No subs allowed and we had Brian Miller, Ray Pointer and Jimmy Adamson playing all 50 games, Adam Blacklaw, John Angus and Brian Pilkington playing 49 games, Jimmy Robson 46 games, Alex Elder and John Connelly 42 games. That is 9 out of a team of 11 playing the majority of the games.

In 1960/61, when we were in the European Cup, FA Cup, League Cup and the League we played a total of 62 matches and used 24 players.
There are plenty of teams who have done similar over the years, however, modern football is so precious!

The modern teams also have the advantage of playing on carpets ,compared to the quagmires of yore. They don't know how lucky they are.

Andreshotboots · Post by **Andreshotboots** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:18 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:51 pm
The modern teams also have the advantage of playing on carpets ,compared to the quagmires of yore. They don't know how lucky they are.

That’s an interesting one that. The pitches as you correctly say are fabulous these days, but they’re much more compact than they used to be with less give, and the pace of the game is massively quicker.

I think modern pitches may actually contribute to muscular injuries in particular as the games are played at 100 mph, something that was impossible on the old bogs..

Back in the day if you avoid the flying two footers, the punches and the odd headbutt and you should come off ok..

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:32 pm

Let us make 5 subs when we can’t even get 14 players together for a match.

Fu(k off Jurgen.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:28 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:25 pm
How precious are these people these days?
Burnley 1959/60 played 50 games including League and FA Cup. No subs allowed and we had Brian Miller, Ray Pointer and Jimmy Adamson playing all 50 games, Adam Blacklaw, John Angus and Brian Pilkington playing 49 games, Jimmy Robson 46 games, Alex Elder and John Connelly 42 games. That is 9 out of a team of 11 playing the majority of the games.

In 1960/61, when we were in the European Cup, FA Cup, League Cup and the League we played a total of 62 matches and used 24 players.
There are plenty of teams who have done similar over the years, however, modern football is so precious!

There's also much better sports science nowadays. Laughable really.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:56 am

To answer Jurgen's point - why not limit the actual amount of competitive game minutes a (Premier League registered) player can play for his club to, say, the equivalent of 42 games a season total. That way a 25 man squad would be ample to cover all games a club might play in and ensure that players get sufficient time to rest and recuperate.

OK, that would allow SD to use his 1st team for every game we played in if he wanted, as I can't see us playing more than 4 cup games a season anytime soon but it would force clubs like Liverpool to balance out the playing time of their key players ending things like the farce of playing Salah in a dead rubber Champions League game and then moaning about how tired he is now.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:33 am

Dean Saunders sums it up rather nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBEo2iD_b8

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:37 am

I’ve posted this elsewhere. But fits here also.

Return the champions league to, oh I don’t know, just the champions!! That would eliminate about 50+ pointless games all over Europe.
Can this conference thingy. I’m not even sure what it is.
Have the Champions league.
Keep The Europa league, and re-instate the Cup Winners Cup. Less matches, more meaningful matches.
In England, make the league cup just for EFL clubs.
Scrap the other one they have EFL Trophy or whatever it’s called.
They complain about to many matches every year. Then come up with new competitions. Attendances for all these cups are dwindling year on year. Artificial inflated by cheap tickets.
At some point, they’ve got to realise they’ve flogged this horse to death and beyond.
Then we have the stupidity of FIFA wanting a biannual World Cup… FFS.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:57 am

He really does need to keep his Herr on.

Liverpool don’t rotate much - which is his choice. City, by contrast, do.

A side like us with JBG, Wood, Cornet, Pope and Vydra going away internationally (some quite long distances) suffer because our players have to go straight back in, Liverpool can choose to leave a couple out who may be a bit fatigued after internationals. We don’t have that luxury most of the time. OK so they have CL too - but not at this time of the season.

So I just don’t see it as being anything other than the big six wanting a rule where it only takes 6 votes to change another rule, as long as it is the correct six votes. All very nauseating.

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:09 am

Frank and Ranieri also in favour of 5 subs
Claiming if their players tire, due to genuine match fitness (after injury or COVID), they can then replace them for fresh legs
Our problem is that our squad is so thin we don't have that luxury

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:24 am

The game was originally about a match between two teams. This is/was one of the attractions of the game. All of this is changing it to dynamic between two clubs, only attractive if you want your club to dominate against the rest.

Frenchclaret · Post by **Frenchclaret** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:31 am

I thoroughly agree with Dean Saunders on Talk Sport. He talks great common sense about Klopp and Tuchel. Thanks, Vegas Claret, I needed that after reading the twaddle in the papers recently.

Conroysleftfoot · Post by **Conroysleftfoot** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:39 am

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:33 am
Dean Saunders sums it up rather nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBEo2iD_b8

Thanks for posting this, brilliant.

spt_claret · Post by **spt_claret** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:32 am

HuncoatClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:57 pm
I suggest that the Liverpool should offer Graham Alexander a playing deal. Even through he's 50 years old now, they'll get 70 games a season out of him for the next 3 years.

Thought exactly this. I believe it was something like all but 28 minutes of 61 games in the 08-09 season that Alexander played. And that's at 37 years old, with a damn sight worse physio & sport science team than Klopp's lads have.
If they can't hack it maybe they should take a wage cut and spend it on a better magic sponge.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:37 pm

Always moaning.

Conroy92 · Post by **Conroy92** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:52 pm

Im not sure I agree with Klopps comments. All teams have a squad of 25 to rotate with. 3 subs during one game is enough. You are unlikely to lose 3 players in the same game due to injury (although it does happen) so rotate your squad for the next fixture. It's just another way for the cash rich clubs to have an advantage.
Also I'm not sure around his comments about internationals, is it any less intense for an international at an Ireland, Scotland than a France or Spain? You could argue that players at teams like Ireland, Scotland have to work harder to account for the difference in quality.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 pm

Let’s make it fair for Klopp
Every club gets 150million to spend on players and wages , no more no less

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:15 pm

just seen his pre-match interview for today, funny how he didn't complain that Leicester have loads of players missing and it was unfair they didn't have them

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:40 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:15 pm
just seen his pre-match interview for today, funny how he didn't complain that Leicester have loads of players missing and it was unfair they didn't have them

Never hear him complaining about the number of group games in the champions league either funnily enough.