Maidan Vale murder

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conyoviejo
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Maidan Vale murder

Post by conyoviejo » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:03 pm

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... s-22851841


Find this unbelievable that a guy who tried to save the lady from being murdered by running the guy over has been charged with murder.FFS.

Rileybobs
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:06 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:03 pm
https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... s-22851841


Find this unbelievable that a guy who tried to save the lady from being murdered by running the guy over has been charged with murder.FFS.
Where does it say he has been charged with murder?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Rowls » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:08 pm

It doesn't. It says he was arrested on suspicion of murder.

Might seem strange for the police to arrest somebody they praise as a hero but hopefully common sense will prevail in terms of the decision to charge, or not to charge with any offence.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Cheshireclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:10 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:03 pm
https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... s-22851841


Find this unbelievable that a guy who tried to save the lady from being murdered by running the guy over has been charged with murder.FFS.
It’s Maida Vale and he hasn’t been charged, he has been arrested on suspicion of murder which is perfectly understandable whilst the police investigate the circumstances surrounding this incident.

If the circumstances surrounding the incident are as reported in a local newspaper, then it’s highly unlikely he will be charged with murder, I suspect.
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by beddie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:13 pm

They wouid have no alternative but to arrest him on suspicion of murder. Hopefully in time that will be dropped once a full investigation has been carried out.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by conyoviejo » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:14 pm

Cheshireclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:10 pm
It’s Maida Vale and he hasn’t been charged, he has been arrested on suspicion of murder which is perfectly understandable whilst the police investigate the circumstances surrounding this incident.

If the circumstances surrounding the incident are as reported in a local newspaper, then it’s highly unlikely he will be charged with murder, I suspect.
Sorry about the typo. :D
And yes,he hasn't been charged yet. Memo to oneself to digest the article before getting on my high horse and hopefully the police will see sense . 8-)

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:15 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:08 pm
It doesn't. It says he was arrested on suspicion of murder.

Might seem strange for the police to arrest somebody they praise as a hero but hopefully common sense will prevail in terms of the decision to charge, or not to charge with any offence.
Shows how easy it is to spread fake news and the narrative that comes with it doesn’t it. And did the police praise him as a hero? I find that hard to believe.

I would have thought it perfectly normal for someone who deliberately kills another person to be arrested on suspicion of murder in the first instance, until a full investigation has taken place. The fact that he’s been released on bail suggests that common sense will prevail.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Jamesy » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:19 pm

The poor deceased woman’s family have praised the guy in the car for his actions, which is nice. If the killer hadn’t have stabbed her so many times the driver’s actions could have saved her life. So awful for this to happen on our streets. RIP lady.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by pushpinpussy » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:30 pm

He will be charged with manslaughter and a court of law will decide his fate. I assume he will be claiming the right of self-defence to another person. however, you still can only use reasonable force. Would driving a vehicle at someone who has then died be deemed to be excessive force. that would be a decision for a jury in my experience to make.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:32 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:30 pm
He will be charged with manslaughter and a court of law will decide his fate. I assume he will be claiming the right of self-defence to another person. however, you still can only use reasonable force. Would driving a vehicle at someone who has then died be deemed to be excessive force. that would be a decision for a jury in my experience to make.
Have you sent him your card yet?
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:34 pm

A truly shocking incident.

I don’t know the finer details of the case, but I’ll be very interested to see what the outcome is for the driver.

Regarding use of force, it has to be reasonable and proportionate in the circumstances. It should hopefully be relatively straight forward for the driver to explain his actions upon witnessing deadly force being used on another.

RIP to the lady.
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Jamesy » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:36 pm

Better to have done what he did than just let the guy carry on repeatedly stabbing her. He wasn’t to know that the guy had stabbed her so badly that she couldn’t be saved. It must have been a desperate situation for all in the vicinity not knowing how to stop this crazed killer or being fearful of doing so. As I said earlier, this driver could have saved her life. Pity he didn’t.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:43 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:30 pm
He will be charged with manslaughter and a court of law will decide his fate. I assume he will be claiming the right of self-defence to another person. however, you still can only use reasonable force. Would driving a vehicle at someone who has then died be deemed to be excessive force. that would be a decision for a jury in my experience to make.
I know of an incident in Croydon many years ago where a Police unit was called to a male high on drugs in street attacking members of the public with a knife.

The driver, upon arriving at scene, decided to use his vehicle to ram the suspect, who went over the bonnet. No doubt due to the drugs, he jumped back up again as if nothing had happened.

He was only stopped by being rammed again, and being pinned between the Police car and a parked car.

I would quite happily argue that upon witnessing a female being stabbed to death, the force the driver has used in trying to stop the suspect is proportionate.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Boss Hogg » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:45 pm

Fighting with knives used to be a sign that you were really weak. The changing culture and demographic of Britain in the last 20 years or so has meant they are now seen as some sort of status symbol amongst some a bit like a Rottweiler. As for the driver I am sure common sense will prevail.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:49 pm

Didn’t the driver hit both the man and woman?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Jamesy » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:50 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:49 pm
Didn’t the driver hit both the man and woman?
Apparently not. One of his wheels was on top of her jacket but eye witnesses said the car didn’t hit her.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:52 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:50 pm
Apparently not. One of his wheels was on top of her jacket but eye witnesses said the car didn’t hit her.
Good, at one point it was being suggested that the car had caused her some injury!!

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:28 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:45 pm
Fighting with knives used to be a sign that you were really weak. The changing culture and demographic of Britain in the last 20 years or so has meant they are now seen as some sort of status symbol amongst some a bit like a Rottweiler. As for the driver I am sure common sense will prevail.
Successive governments have failed to get a handle on it that's all, it needs a change in laws which I believe is being processed, including the banning of certain knives

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by box_of_frogs » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:28 pm

We’ll played / driven that man. Fully confident that self defence with proportional force will be the result whether at trial or via CPS.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:40 pm

It’s incidents like this that mean I would just drive away and not get involved.
A colleague who I worked with with, you was a trained first responder, gave CPR to a lady who had collapsed until the ambulance arrived. He did break two of her ribs in the process.
She took him to court for inappropriate touching and assault for breaking her ribs. The court only threw out the case when both paramedics testified to say he saved her life. His life was unbearable for 9 months until it went to court.

This poor person is now in that same unfortunate position, if charged, could lose his job, his house etc for trying to be a Good Samaritan.

I agree with everyone else, this should be a quick chat with the CPS and him released from his bail conditions.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:11 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:40 pm
It’s incidents like this that mean I would just drive away and not get involved.
A colleague who I worked with with, you was a trained first responder, gave CPR to a lady who had collapsed until the ambulance arrived. He did break two of her ribs in the process.
She took him to court for inappropriate touching and assault for breaking her ribs. The court only threw out the case when both paramedics testified to say he saved her life. His life was unbearable for 9 months until it went to court.

This poor person is now in that same unfortunate position, if charged, could lose his job, his house etc for trying to be a Good Samaritan.

I agree with everyone else, this should be a quick chat with the CPS and him released from his bail conditions.
I’d certainly take the gamble and try and to the right thing, never have I walked away and left anybody in danger, I’m not trying to make myself out to be some hard superhero, instinct just takes over
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:13 pm

There aren't many that wouldn't have done what this driver did. Imagine having to live with the shame that you'd just drive away and not get involved.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:23 pm

I have had a read of the reports of what happened.
I fear the guy is going to be in real trouble.
In the UK we changed the laws to accept if you fear for your own life then self defence using deadly force would be a defence.

This poor guy has used deadlY force when his life was not in danger, he was in a secure tin box and not under threat.
Pretty sure this will end up in front of a jury as the law is not on his side.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Loyalclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:33 pm

When did they change the laws? A police officer and a solicitor say different on this thread

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:39 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:23 pm
I have had a read of the reports of what happened.
I fear the guy is going to be in real trouble.
In the UK we changed the laws to accept if you fear for your own life then self defence using deadly force would be a defence.

This poor guy has used deadlY force when his life was not in danger, he was in a secure tin box and not under threat.
Pretty sure this will end up in front of a jury as the law is not on his side.
There are four pieces of legislation here in the UK covering use of force:

- common law
- section 3 criminal law act
- 117 of Police and Criminal Evidence Act (Pace)
- Human Rights

What I suspect you are referring to in your post is use of force when applying it under Common Law.

In this instance, the driver will be using Section 3 Criminal Law Act. It states:

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders unlawfully at large.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by jrgbfc » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:45 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:40 pm
It’s incidents like this that mean I would just drive away and not get involved.
A colleague who I worked with with, you was a trained first responder, gave CPR to a lady who had collapsed until the ambulance arrived. He did break two of her ribs in the process.
She took him to court for inappropriate touching and assault for breaking her ribs. The court only threw out the case when both paramedics testified to say he saved her life. His life was unbearable for 9 months until it went to court.

This poor person is now in that same unfortunate position, if charged, could lose his job, his house etc for trying to be a Good Samaritan.

I agree with everyone else, this should be a quick chat with the CPS and him released from his bail conditions.
I've recently had to do a First aid course for work. This subject came up and the guy leading the course said nobody has ever been successfully sued in this country for attempting to give first aid.
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:47 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:45 pm
I've recently had to do a First aid course for work. This subject came up and the guy leading the course said nobody has ever been successfully sued in this country for attempting to give first aid.
I also suspect that no case has ever got to court.
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:56 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:47 pm
I also suspect that no case has ever got to court.
It certainly did get to court, my friend stated he would never help a lady again.
If they told you a case got to court, what would your thought process be?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by karatekid » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:57 pm

Will the arrest stay on his police record even if he isn’t charged? Could it show up on a dbs check for example?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:59 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:39 pm
There are four pieces of legislation here in the UK covering use of force:

- common law
- section 3 criminal law act
- 117 of Police and Criminal Evidence Act (Pace)
- Human Rights

What I suspect you are referring to in your post is use of force when applying it under Common Law.

In this instance, the driver will be using Section 3 Criminal Law Act. It states:

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders unlawfully at large.
Thank you your knowledge on the subject. Really hope that gets him off.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:56 pm
It certainly did get to court, my friend stated he would never help a lady again.
If they told you a case got to court, what would your thought process be?
Civil court?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:59 pm

karatekid wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:57 pm
Will the arrest stay on his police record even if he isn’t charged? Could it show up on a dbs check for example?
No, if he's not charged & convicted it won't show up.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:00 pm

karatekid wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:57 pm
Will the arrest stay on his police record even if he isn’t charged? Could it show up on a dbs check for example?
Yes absolutely it will.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:01 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:59 pm
No, if he's not charged & convicted it won't show up.
Wrong, I know personally that’s not true.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:06 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:59 pm
No, if he's not charged & convicted it won't show up.
You get a criminal record on PNC upon arrest.

However, if not charged you can apply to get it removed. I believe you apply to the Police Service that arrested you, and it’s considered on a case by case basis.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:16 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:01 pm
Wrong, I know personally that’s not true.
Odd because a friend of mine was accused of rape and went to court over it and it never showed on his record after he was found innocent.
He became a care worker later on in life and it never showed on any DBS checks he's had over the years.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:22 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:56 pm
It certainly did get to court, my friend stated he would never help a lady again.
If they told you a case got to court, what would your thought process be?
Which Court did it go to?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:23 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:16 pm
Odd because a friend of mine was accused of rape and went to court over it and it never showed on his record after he was found innocent.
He became a care worker later on in life and it never showed on any DBS checks he's had over the years.
Your friend will have a PNC record. It will contain his name, dob, last known address and then description.

What he won’t have will be any offending history. I imagine this will just be blank.

I regularly come across young lads who have obviously been arrested at some point, but the matter has been NFA’d, which means I can’t see what they were arrested for.

You could ask your mate to chase it up with whatever force arrested him, maybe?

I’m not too clued up with DBS checks, but isn’t there standard and enhanced? Could be that your friend only had a standard DBS check, which is why his arrest didn’t show?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:34 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:23 pm
Your friend will have a PNC record. It will contain his name, dob, last known address and then description.

What he won’t have will be any offending history. I imagine this will just be blank.

I regularly come across young lads who have obviously been arrested at some point, but the matter has been NFA’d, which means I can’t see what they were arrested for.

You could ask your mate to chase it up with whatever force arrested him, maybe?

I’m not too clued up with DBS checks, but isn’t there standard and enhanced? Could be that your friend only had a standard DBS check, which is why his arrest didn’t show?
Enhanced for care work and as far as I'm aware it's never shown up, hence my earlier comment.

It was 20yrs ago now, since his court case, so he doesn't really need to chase it up if there is/was anything there, it's never caused an issue with him working.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Stayingup » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:38 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:06 pm
Where does it say he has been charged with murder?
Hes being held for murder. Try the news.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:07 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:38 pm
Hes being held for murder. Try the news.
But where does it say he's been charged?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by pureclaret » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:12 pm

When offered a phone call he requested Sue Gray the officers just left the cell door open gave him some cake and he walked out to go home
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:21 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:38 pm
Hes being held for murder. Try the news.
Try listening to the news, or reading it.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:37 pm

Lowbank making an early play at retaining his DHOTYA for the 7th successive year.
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Stayingup » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:53 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:21 pm
Try listening to the news, or reading it.
I did what about you?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:03 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:53 am
I did what about you?
Can you point to where it says the driver has been charged with murder then please?
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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:59 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:03 pm
Can you point to where it says the driver has been charged with murder then please?
Do you never take a day off from trying to start arguments with people?

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:09 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:11 pm
I’d certainly take the gamble and try and to the right thing, never have I walked away and left anybody in danger, I’m not trying to make myself out to be some hard superhero, instinct just takes over
Until you are there in reality faced with that danger it’s impossible to say what you would do or what anybody would do & the instinct often as a mind of its own, you can never 100% predict the instinct in these cases the instinct is so unpredictable. Mike Tyson’s in the prime can run for cover if the instinct tells them to do that.

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:12 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:09 pm
Until you are there in reality faced with that danger it’s impossible to say what you would do or what anybody would do & the instinct often as a mind of its own, you can never 100% predict the instinct in these cases the instinct is so unpredictable. Mike Tyson’s in the prime can run for cover if the instinct tells them to do that.
I can tell you now I wouldn’t walk away, a man with a gun perhaps…

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Re: Maidan Vale murder

Post by Hipper » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:23 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:39 pm
There are four pieces of legislation here in the UK covering use of force:

- common law
- section 3 criminal law act
- 117 of Police and Criminal Evidence Act (Pace)
- Human Rights

What I suspect you are referring to in your post is use of force when applying it under Common Law.

In this instance, the driver will be using Section 3 Criminal Law Act. It states:

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders unlawfully at large.


Surely it isn't the driver/accused that chooses which law he will be charged with? It will be the CPS won't it? And if they choose to charge him they will choose a law that will achieve their objectives, presumably a conviction.

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