Russia Invades

[ElectroClaret]

BBC reporting that Islamic State have claimed responsibility.
Nothing confirmed though.

[kentonclaret]

The numbers of innocent civilians killed and maimed by terrorists is dwarfed by the tens of thousands of civilians killed/maimed by States pursuing war aims. Thousands have been killed in Ukraine alone with drone and missile strikes on shopping malls and food markets and other civilian infrastructure. Deaths following a terrorist attack somehow always seem to attract greater international condemnation.

[maidenover]

You all need to stop listening to western propaganda in the yanks proxy war with Russia.

The sooner Trump gets back into power the better to end this thing once and for all correctly, at the negotiation table.

Trump’s idea of “negotiation” will involve completely selling Ukraine down the river, and accepting Putin’s bail out cash for all his legal problem costs.

[Vegas Claret]

Trump’s idea of “negotiation” will involve completely selling Ukraine down the river, and accepting Putin’s bail out cash for all his legal problem costs.

I'm 100% certain Shaggy is just here to troll

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/putin-dismiss ... 00616.html
The Russian people need to wake up and realise he treats them as he does his soldiers as cannon fodder.

[kentonclaret]

Trump’s idea of “negotiation” will involve completely selling Ukraine down the river, and accepting Putin’s bail out cash for all his legal problem costs.

Since Boris Johnson is supposed to have a “special relationship” with both Trump and Zelensky I wonder how Boris is going to square this one if that is the final outcome.

[ecc]

I'm no fan of Macron but he seems to be the only Western leader committed to backing Ukraine. As always, a hidden agenda can be glimpsed. Le Pen has long been a friend of Putin and has sought finance from Russian banks.

Macron is also in the position where he cannot seek another term as President so he's got more freedom to whip out soundbites.

He's also desperate to be remembered as a "Great Leader". His popularity in France is at an all-time low but he wants to be seen as the driving force of Europe now Merkel has gone and OIaf Scholz is busy fighting fires at home and trying to keep his coalition alive.

[ecc]

Since Boris Johnson is supposed to have a “special relationship” with both Trump and Zelensky I wonder how Boris is going to square this one if that is the final outcome.

Sorry, but where does Johnson come into this?

[bfcjg]

Please don't turn this to political point scoring,last thing we want after so long is to get this important and informative thread pulled.

[kentonclaret]

Sorry, but where does Johnson come into this?

Boris Johnson held a meeting with Donald Trump in May 2023 to discuss the war in Ukraine and to try and persuade Mr Trump to fully support them in their war with Russia. Boris Johnson has also made numerous visits to Ukraine meeting each time with Zelensky.
Obviously you were not aware of this hence your question.

[HahaYeah]

Trump is not aligned with the Biden/ Global American Empire at all and has stated he will put an end to the war in 24 hours.

Boris went over to The Ukraine stop any chance of peace breaking out and told their puppet Zelensky to get back to it.

[CoolClaret]

Trump is not aligned with the Biden/ Global American Empire at all and has stated he will put an end to the war in 24 hours.

Boris went over to The Ukraine stop any chance of peace breaking out and told their puppet Zelensky to get back to it.

Ah yes of course, should have just not done anything and totally rolled over and allowed Putin to annex the entirety of Ukraine, right?

You might think that you want to live in a world without the 'Global American Empire' but trust me, you do not.

[AlargeClaret]

People letting their political beliefs blind them here ,when calm evaluation is what is needed . Re: the terrorist attack , it will take a while for the dust to clear before any half decent facts can be established . Russia’s relation with Islam is an incredibly complicated mess, on one hand they despise it , then just tolerate it ( Chechnya) yet happy to fully support it if it helps arm them etc .

[Belgianclaret]

You really need to watch the series on Netflix called Turning Point on the Cold War.

Explains all you need to know on what’s happening today

[ecc]

Boris Johnson held a meeting with Donald Trump in May 2023 to discuss the war in Ukraine and to try and persuade Mr Trump to fully support them in their war with Russia. Boris Johnson has also made numerous visits to Ukraine meeting each time with Zelensky.
Obviously you were not aware of this hence your question.

I was indeed aware of the erstwhile PM's actions. But AFAIK he is no longer PM nor indeed a member of the government hence my question.

[JohnMcGreal]

You really need to watch the series on Netflix called Turning Point on the Cold War.

Explains all you need to know on what’s happening today

Just finished the last episode of this. Really well made, I thought.

[kentonclaret]

Despite all of the evidence pointing elsewhere to ISIS almost inevitable that Moscow will make strenuous efforts to link the Concert Hall massacre to Ukraine involvement.

[Vegas Claret]

anyone else think it's a little 'strange' that the FSB have managed to arrest all the attackers including 7 accomplices in the relative immediate aftermath of the attack and have of course pointed the finger at Ukraine ? ........

[alboclaret]

anyone else think it's a little 'strange' that the FSB have managed to arrest all the attackers including 7 accomplices in the relative immediate aftermath of the attack and have of course pointed the finger at Ukraine ? ........

I know what your saying. Not strange.
As expected. How do you arrest group of gun men without being shot.

[FCBurnley]

Not seeing much sympathy on here for those who have suffered an horrendous death. Well I for one feel deeply for the injured dead and injured whatever their nationality

[bfcjg]

If good does come out of bad then hopefully if the suspicion that Putin's bloody hands are all over this is proven the Russian people will rise up against his regime.

[elwaclaret]

Not seeing much sympathy on here for those who have suffered an horrendous death. Well I for one feel deeply for the injured dead and injured whatever their nationality

So do I, imagine your own regime allowing a massacre to happen, despite warnings because it feeds your leaders wider political agenda.

[Vegas Claret]

Not seeing much sympathy on here for those who have suffered an horrendous death. Well I for one feel deeply for the injured dead and injured whatever their nationality

to be fair, you've been on here long enough to know that 99% of people on this thread are decent folk, I would say it goes without saying that all of us have a lot of sympathy and compassion for all of those involved in any attack or war, the tone and decorum of the thread alone would suggest that.

[Carlos the Great]

Since Boris Johnson is supposed to have a “special relationship” with both Trump and Zelensky I wonder how Boris is going to square this one if that is the final outcome.

I wouldn’t want Johnson anywhere near the political stage involved in any negotiations .. He is looked upon by other leaders as not to be trusted and a bit of a bumbling Baffoon taking Britain out of the EU which is considered madness by the majority of nations ..I’m not sure how Ukraine can win this war now Putin has been elected back in power and support waning when apparently more important issues on our doorstep

[kentonclaret]

Should Putin declare that Ukraine has been a direct actor in the Concert Hall massacre that will give the green light for Russia to target Zelensky and the rest of Ukraine’s leadership. That would signal a massive escalation and create a real dilemma for Europe and those backing Ukraine.

[Aclaret]

Should Putin declare that Ukraine has been a direct actor in the Concert Hall massacre that will give the green light for Russia to target Zelensky and the rest of Ukraine’s leadership. That would signal a massive escalation and create a real dilemma for Europe and those backing Ukraine.

....its getting closer and closer.

[Vegas Claret]

Should Putin declare that Ukraine has been a direct actor in the Concert Hall massacre that will give the green light for Russia to target Zelensky and the rest of Ukraine’s leadership. That would signal a massive escalation and create a real dilemma for Europe and those backing Ukraine.

that's the plan

[FCBurnley]

to be fair, you've been on here long enough to know that 99% of people on this thread are decent folk, I would say it goes without saying that all of us have a lot of sympathy and compassion for all of those involved in any attack or war, the tone and decorum of the thread alone would suggest that.

Just commenting on what I have read on here since the attack. Whoever was responsible a lot of innocent people have died.

[CoolClaret]

Should Putin declare that Ukraine has been a direct actor in the Concert Hall massacre that will give the green light for Russia to target Zelensky and the rest of Ukraine’s leadership. That would signal a massive escalation and create a real dilemma for Europe and those backing Ukraine.

I mean - wasn't that his plan initially? Sieze Kyiv via Hostomel airport (a crucial battle in the early stages of the War).

I think Zelenskyy is protected enough where he is from Russian Missisles. They aren't daft.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Just let Russia take Ukraine and be done with it. Get the yanks out of the worlds affairs and everyone will be better off.

And then hope they don't want Moldova or the Baltic states next?

[South West Claret.]

Just let Russia take Ukraine and be done with it. Get the yanks out of the worlds affairs and everyone will be better off.

Are you mad or a Russian?

[BleedingClaret]

And then hope they don't want Moldova or the Baltic states next?

Georgia would be next in the firing line

[Stayingup]

I wouldn’t want Johnson anywhere near the political stage involved in any negotiations .. He is looked upon by other leaders as not to be trusted and a bit of a bumbling Baffoon taking Britain out of the EU which is considered madness by the majority of nations ..I’m not sure how Ukraine can win this war now Putin has been elected back in power and support waning when apparently more important issues on our doorstep

Actually it was Cameron - Lord Cameron as he now is - who allowed the referendum on Brexit and it was the citizens of the UK who voted to leave the EU. And it is not most nations outside of Europe who consider it madness to leave an undemocratic bloc like the EU. Most countries I visit don't give a toss about UK leaving this block. To me your view is parochial.


MOD: I have allowed this post to stand. PLEASE REMEMBER ALL; Only political discussion that is directly related to the war are allowed on this thread. I am main mod on this thread, but remain answerable for content to up the clarets rules. Failure to observe these rules will lead to all the powers open to a moderator.

Keep it on topic folks

[elwaclaret]

NEXTA: The AFU strike on Sevastopol was the largest since the beginning of the war - Bild

According to Bild's analysis of open data, the attack on the night of March 23 was the largest on Sevastopol since the beginning of the war. It surpassed the September operation, when the AFU hit the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet.

According to their data, at least five Western Storm Shadow and Scalp cruise missiles were used. At least two of them hit large satellite antennas, radar systems and administrative buildings. Only one missile was apparently intercepted.

(There are multiple graphics in the link which sadly I cannot bring up on here)


https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/177225259 ... XbpxEsmRVg

[AlargeClaret]

I think we’re gonna see more and more of these long range “ super target “ strikes from both sides . This is when NATO combined intelligence really trumps Russia .
While we don’t hear much about RUS strikes , it’s clear they’ve also been looking for infrastructure hits like the oil refineries UKR have targeted etc .
The frontlines on all sides look incredibly stalemated yet pretty intense too . Eg UKR have utilised the Surovkin line trenches they took to really dig in , mine etc in Verbove .After Avdiivka UKR moved back to heavy entrenchments showing the incredibly small actual gains and re-takes on both sides .
A RUS offensive is rumoured in late Spring , but how many troops /ordinance is Vlad prepared to sacrifice ? Possibly a lot .
It’s a pity that nobody seems to be interested in peace .

[NewClaret]

I think we’re gonna see more and more of these long range “ super target “ strikes from both sides . This is when NATO combined intelligence really trumps Russia .
While we don’t hear much about RUS strikes , it’s clear they’ve also been looking for infrastructure hits like the oil refineries UKR have targeted etc .
The frontlines on all sides look incredibly stalemated yet pretty intense too . Eg UKR have utilised the Surovkin line trenches they took to really dig in , mine etc in Verbove .After Avdiivka UKR moved back to heavy entrenchments showing the incredibly small actual gains and re-takes on both sides .
A RUS offensive is rumoured in late Spring , but how many troops /ordinance is Vlad prepared to sacrifice ? Possibly a lot .
It’s a pity that nobody seems to be interested in peace .

Nobody will talk about peace because Putin has no interest in it. Any peace would be temporary because as soon as he’d resupplied and re-armed Russia he’d be at it again. We should’ve dealt with this in 2014 and we wouldn’t be having this problem now.

In reality, Europe and the US could destroy Russia overnight if they really wanted to. They are basically sending Ukraine the bare minimum - their aged artillery and equipment. None of the best stuff, not much by way of planes and certainly no troops. All without damaging their own capabilities at all.

Why, I’m not sure. I can only imagine it’s because they fear China getting involved in some way so they’re giving their scraps to Ukraine whilst remaining at full strength themselves. That way they gradually destroy the Russian army/navy/air force/economy without ever really weakening themselves. If they applied their collective might it’d be over in days.

Despite not making much territorial progress, Ukraine seem to be doing well on taking out Russian infrastructure, with 10-20% of their oil refining capacity taken out in recent weeks. They’ve also made big impacts on the Black Sea fleet and have destroyed potentially all of their A50 reconnaissance aircraft. If the US ever agrees the $60bn aid package I’d expect a big step up in attacks.

[TsarBomba]

https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/17 ... Gkg4Pp-4vg

Fascinating insight into how Ukraine shoot down Shahed drones.

Basically, they’ve put 8,000 mobile phones on poles all around Ukraine to track them as they come in.

Extremely cost effective and highly successful.

[bfcjg]

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-mosco ... eblog-body
This could be the start of NATO involvement.

[elwaclaret]

NEXTA:

"Men in Blue" part 2

We have identified agents of the Russian secret services in the "Crocus" hall

Our editorial staff continues to analyze photos and videos of the terrorist #CrocusCityHallAttack and everything related to it.

In our previous publication we told about the oddities captured on one of the videos a couple of minutes before the shooting started in the concert hall. It showed several similarly dressed men in blue sweaters and jeans first looking at each other suspiciously and then began urging the crowd to "close the doors", resulting in a huge loss of human life.

Our editorial staff assumed that these might be #FSB officers, due to their far from clean reputation concerning terrorist attacks in #Russia.

By continuing to study open source information, we tried to identify the "men in blue" who aroused our suspicions. Due to the poor quality of the video, it is difficult to compare the faces of these men with the open database. But we still managed to find one alleged "FSB officer".

In the video from the concert hall, at some moment, one of the "men in blue" can be seen going down from the top row instead of leaving the hall like everyone else. Then he, supports the calls for the doors to be closed. His face is clearly visible, so we managed to find a photo of a very similar person in open sources.

This photo was posted on the website of the Municipal Budgetary Institution "Sosensky Sports Center". The photo shows a man receiving an award for third place in an arm wrestling competition. The composition and general facial features are quite similar to one of the "men in blue" from the concert hall in "Crocus".

At this stage we were met by another "unexpected coincidence". In the Moscow settlement of Sosenskoye, where this sports center is based, the headquarters of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service is located.

However, the story about the "men in blue" did not end with just one video. In the footage of the arrest of one of the terrorists, we also paid attention to the "civilian" clothes of the law enforcers.

As you can see, it is also blue. We assume that specifically in the case of the terrorist attack in "Crocus", the "undercover law enforcers" used these popular colors in order not to stand out from the crowd and at the same time to have a marker "friend" or "foe".

Moreover, if we analyze the footage from the video inside the hall before the shooting, we can notice another "man in blue" sitting behind the author of the video. The face of this alleged FSB officer can be compared with the footage of detention of one of the terrorists. Yes, his face is hidden by a mask, but his features, the shape of his head, the position of his eyes, indicate that it is the same person.

The day after the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall, Russian propagandists published a video interview with the allegedly heroic act of one of the attendees of the concert who "managed to knock out the terrorist with his bare hands and save dozens of people".

It is noteworthy that in the video the "hero" sits with his back to the camera to hide his face and again by an "amazing coincidence" he is wearing a blue sweatshirt.

It can also be seen that our "hero" gives interviews wearing a hat that is similar to the one we see on special services during the arrest of terrorists (example: previous photo).

To summarize, we can't say with a hundred percent confidence that these people are members of the special services, but we also can't ignore all the oddities and inconsistencies of this tragedy, one of which is the very appearance of these people during the terrorist attack. People who have had to face agents of special services in civilian clothes can identify them by their behavior, style of dress and gesticulation. "Men in Blue" look like special services agents who don't even try to disguise themselves.

But all the strangeness of the terrorist attack in Crocus City Hall does not end with them. The official version of the Russian authorities is ridiculous and even absurd, and the number of various oddities in the whole picture of the terrorist attack is very huge. We will definitely talk about this in our future publications.

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/177269091 ... XbpxEsmRVg

[Hipper]

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-mosco ... eblog-body
This could be the start of NATO involvement.

If you are referring to stray missiles, I doubt it. I would think that despite being virtually enemies, there are agreements in place as to what to do in these stray missile situations so that things don't get out of hand, which nobody wants.

If you mean the 'assassination bureau', if it's not just a story, unless they kill Putin himself or some other really top brass, then I can't see any issue.

[AlargeClaret]

Putin raging about the “ new” F-16’s which UKR will soon have in service . Not about the actual planes but he’s stating any non UKR take off for these planes on missions would class said country as a “ target” . He’s actually got a reasonable point tbf .
Though we know NATO has been a huge contributor to UKR , to actually start missions from NATO airfields would be surely inviting an attack ? While you can see UKR’s point of view in stopping the actual airfields /grounded planes being attacked.
I very much doubt the US will sanction it ,unless they really are looking for WW3? ( which I don’t think they do)

[elwaclaret]

Putin raging about the “ new” F-16’s which UKR will soon have in service . Not about the actual planes but he’s stating any non UKR take off for these planes on missions would class said country as a “ target” . He’s actually got a reasonable point tbf .
Though we know NATO has been a huge contributor to UKR , to actually start missions from NATO airfields would be surely inviting an attack ? While you can see UKR’s point of view in stopping the actual airfields /grounded planes being attacked.
I very much doubt the US will sanction it ,unless they really are looking for WW3? ( which I don’t think they do)

Friendly countries have often been used as airbases without being at war. It is why the Brits (disgracefully) turned a blind eye to Pinochet’s atrocities in Chile for example. Russia interfering in Laos/ Vietnam is another.

As usual Putin relies on threats and bluster. A bully that has got used to threats where argument holds no water. See it has already got the EU running scared from giving Ukraine the confiscated assets just in case Russia try to sue at a later date. What message does that send to Putin? Apart from the EU hedging their bets that Ukraine might lose.

[NewClaret]

Putin raging about the “ new” F-16’s which UKR will soon have in service . Not about the actual planes but he’s stating any non UKR take off for these planes on missions would class said country as a “ target” . He’s actually got a reasonable point tbf .
Though we know NATO has been a huge contributor to UKR , to actually start missions from NATO airfields would be surely inviting an attack ? While you can see UKR’s point of view in stopping the actual airfields /grounded planes being attacked.
I very much doubt the US will sanction it ,unless they really are looking for WW3? ( which I don’t think they do)

In any WW3, there’s only one winner and it isn’t Russia.

Europe and the US are giving their scraps to Ukraine. Literally giving them tiny percentages of their military budgets and their old end-of-life equipment. Underlines by them receiving F16’s from the 70’s/80’s.

At a headline level they’re managing to keep Russia at bay with those scraps and have taken back considerable parts of Ukraine (think I read 26%) that was earlier occupied territory.

Russia has lost some of its best units, commanders, its best equipment and spent a lot of its men. Meanwhile Europe and the US haven’t lost a single piece of their best equipment or a single man.

If it ever came to giving them all of their best equipment, or putting boots on the ground, they could destroy Russia and force them out of Ukraine in a matter of days.

In summary, Putin has a lot more to fear from WW3 than the West do.

[AlargeClaret]

In any WW3, there’s only one winner and it isn’t Russia.

Europe and the US are giving their scraps to Ukraine. Literally giving them tiny percentages of their military budgets and their old end-of-life equipment. Underlines by them receiving F16’s from the 70’s/80’s.

At a headline level they’re managing to keep Russia at bay with those scraps and have taken back considerable parts of Ukraine (think I read 26%) that was earlier occupied territory.

Russia has lost some of its best units, commanders, its best equipment and spent a lot of its men. Meanwhile Europe and the US haven’t lost a single piece of their best equipment or a single man.

If it ever came to giving them all of their best equipment, or putting boots on the ground, they could destroy Russia and force them out of Ukraine in a matter of days.

In summary, Putin has a lot more to fear from WW3 than the West do.

Your child like naivety is a joy to behold. Have you been playing video games or watching superhero films ? or whooping at a RUS death while crying “ butcher” at a UKR one ?

“ in any WW3” - are you even aware of the combined nuclear arsenal of RUS & China ? and the destruction this could bring ?

“ Putin has more to fear in a WW3” Putin is happy to expend lives like crushed Maltesers, he’s a bullying violent sociopath.

“ giving scraps to UKR “ - do you really think NATO would publicly throw in its best kit ? Roughly they’ve given about $100b to UKR and it’s top ordnance , armour ,ammo etc equally if not better than what RUS has , hence the huge losses RUS have incurred .

The point being if RUS launched jets from Belarus they’d be a legit target so it only stands to reason if UKR used eg Poland , they’d be also a legit target .

[NewClaret]

Your child like naivety is a joy to behold. Have you been playing video games or watching superhero films ? or whooping at a RUS death while crying “ butcher” at a UKR one ?

“ in any WW3” - are you even aware of the combined nuclear arsenal of RUS & China ? and the destruction this could bring ?

“ Putin has more to fear in a WW3” Putin is happy to expend lives like crushed Maltesers, he’s a bullying violent sociopath.

“ giving scraps to UKR “ - do you really think NATO would publicly throw in its best kit ? Roughly they’ve given about $100b to UKR and it’s top ordnance , armour ,ammo etc equally if not better than what RUS has , hence the huge losses RUS have incurred .

The point being if RUS launched jets from Belarus they’d be a legit target so it only stands to reason if UKR used eg Poland , they’d be also a legit target .

So if WW3 was going to ensue, why hasn’t it already? What with Ukraine using its drones to destroy Russia’s oil refinery capacity (10-20% of it by all estimates)? That’s not only directly damaging the Russian economy to the point they’ve had to start importing fuel from Belarus to meet domestic needs, but bringing the war to home soil. A lot more so than a few F16’s will do.

It’s also proving that Russian Air defence is pathetic, because those drones are highly unsophisticated, but that’s another topic.

Not really sure what your video game point is, so will skip that one, but in respect to your other points:

China won’t join Russia. If it were ever going to join them, why hasn’t it already? Theres every chance actually that China might fancy expanding in to a weakened Russia. But the simple reason it won’t join Russia is it would be abandoning economic ties with the EU and USA (combined 800m population) for a Russia (with a 100m population). It would be committing economic suicide. Not to mention that it would know that in any WW China would have to do all the heavy lifting because Russia’s capability has been diminished.

It will just be already-alienated states like North Korea and Iran who basically have nothing to lose by joining forces with Russia - and I’d expect even they would think twice about getting involved.

You’re right about Putin being a bullying, violent, sociopath. It’s only because he’s prepared to expend waves of Russian people and conscripts/convicts, where Ukraine are being much more cautious with human lives, that they’ve managed to take ground (and they’ve lost a lot of that since the war began). Putin likes to make many threats he can’t and will never follow through on. And the Russian constitution on nuclear use is pretty clear it can only be used if fired upon in any event.

No I don’t expect them to give Ukraine its best kit. But $100bn (over 2 years) is nothing in military terms given the combined US and EU annual military spend is $1222bn. Vs Russias $86bn. Which was my point - if they really diverted their combined resources in to defeating Russia then it’d be over in days.

I don’t really even know why Ukraine would want or need to launch jets from outside its own country but if it did need to for some reason, and Putin decided to respond by firing in to Poland say, good luck to him. He has a lot more to lose than NATO.

[CoolClaret]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68692195

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has delivered a blunt warning that Europe has entered a "pre-war era" and if Ukraine is defeated by Russia, nobody in Europe will be able to feel safe.

"I don't want to scare anyone, but war is no longer a concept from the past," he told European media. "It's real and it started over two years ago."

I'm in total agreement with him; really wish those that push Kremlin propaganda and hoping for a Trump 2nd term will take heed of Tusk & other European leader's comments/thoughts.

We do not want (more) war in Europe.

[Hipper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68692195

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has delivered a blunt warning that Europe has entered a "pre-war era" and if Ukraine is defeated by Russia, nobody in Europe will be able to feel safe.

"I don't want to scare anyone, but war is no longer a concept from the past," he told European media. "It's real and it started over two years ago."

I'm in total agreement with him; really wish those that push Kremlin propaganda and hoping for a Trump 2nd term will take heed of Tusk & other European leader's comments/thoughts.

We do not want (more) war in Europe.

It started in 2014 of course.

[Hipper]

So if WW3 was going to ensue, why hasn’t it already? What with Ukraine using its drones to destroy Russia’s oil refinery capacity (10-20% of it by all estimates)? That’s not only directly damaging the Russian economy to the point they’ve had to start importing fuel from Belarus to meet domestic needs, but bringing the war to home soil. A lot more so than a few F16’s will do.

It’s also proving that Russian Air defence is pathetic, because those drones are highly unsophisticated, but that’s another topic.

Not really sure what your video game point is, so will skip that one, but in respect to your other points:

China won’t join Russia. If it were ever going to join them, why hasn’t it already? Theres every chance actually that China might fancy expanding in to a weakened Russia. But the simple reason it won’t join Russia is it would be abandoning economic ties with the EU and USA (combined 800m population) for a Russia (with a 100m population). It would be committing economic suicide. Not to mention that it would know that in any WW China would have to do all the heavy lifting because Russia’s capability has been diminished.

It will just be already-alienated states like North Korea and Iran who basically have nothing to lose by joining forces with Russia - and I’d expect even they would think twice about getting involved.

You’re right about Putin being a bullying, violent, sociopath. It’s only because he’s prepared to expend waves of Russian people and conscripts/convicts, where Ukraine are being much more cautious with human lives, that they’ve managed to take ground (and they’ve lost a lot of that since the war began). Putin likes to make many threats he can’t and will never follow through on. And the Russian constitution on nuclear use is pretty clear it can only be used if fired upon in any event.

No I don’t expect them to give Ukraine its best kit. But $100bn (over 2 years) is nothing in military terms given the combined US and EU annual military spend is $1222bn. Vs Russias $86bn. Which was my point - if they really diverted their combined resources in to defeating Russia then it’d be over in days.

I don’t really even know why Ukraine would want or need to launch jets from outside its own country but if it did need to for some reason, and Putin decided to respond by firing in to Poland say, good luck to him. He has a lot more to lose than NATO.

$50 billion is a twenty fourth of the annual expenditure according to your figures. I don't think that's 'nothing'.

As we in the west are not military nations we don't spend extortionate amounts on the military. In particular we do not have a massive military industry. We would either have to eat into our reserves of equipment/shells etc., weakening our own forces, or increase the manufacture of these items. Either way, western governments have to make a judgement as to how much tax payers money they want to spend on Ukraine and what other services they will spend less on (or increase taxes of course). These governments are answerable to the electorate.

The UK has spent £7.1 billion on military aid up to now according to this link:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-9477/

[ecc]

It did but given the "15 minute" world we live in the war in 2014 was forgotten after a few months.

[CoolClaret]

It started in 2014 of course.

Yes it did - perhaps meaning of this scale/magnitude?