Russia Invades

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Rumbletonk » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:18 pm


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Re: Russia Invades

Post by bfcjg » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:23 pm

If it transpires that Russia are behind the sabotage or if they sabotage the Norwegian pipeline to Russia is that the green flag to NATO to attack Russian infrastructure relating to power and gas/oil supplies that head East ?
It is getting nasty now.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Enola Gay » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:28 pm

Quite a bit of *ahem* artistic licence taken with the subtitles there…

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:15 pm
1 and 2 are not "a bit silly"

They actually did that

Explained 3 and 4 already

5 - Are you telling me that a NATO vessel has attacked the energy infrastructure of a NATO member?

If you really believe in 5), then you need some new information sources, and I'd like to see the ones you use at the moment

Remember there are hundreds and thousands of Russian fan boi accounts retweeting Kremlin propoganda, all the time, to try to flood the internet with what are essentially total rubbish
Russia could simply turn off the taps. Why wouldn't USA want to sabotage a vital source of finance?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:35 pm

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status ... 5115607040

This is a classic example of a Russian disinformation tweet

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:36 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:32 pm
Russia could simply turn off the taps. Why wouldn't USA want to sabotage a vital source of finance?
Repeating the same thing three times in face of all the evidence against it does rather suggest that you are a fan of stuff that is both untrue and bloody dangerous

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:36 pm
Repeating the same thing three times in face of all the evidence against it does rather suggest that you are a fan of stuff that is both untrue and bloody dangerous
If you don't want to answer the question as to why USA wouldn't want to do it,after Biden publicly declared "I promise you it won't happen," something you describe as "Russian disinformation" (I know the old KGB has tentacles, but to believe they can influence what the US president says is a bit of a stretch) then fair enough.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Enola Gay wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:28 pm
Quite a bit of *ahem* artistic licence taken with the subtitles there…
Still funny
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:45 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:43 pm
If you don't want to answer the question as to why USA wouldn't want to do it,after Biden publicly declared "I promise you it won't happen," something you describe as "Russian disinformation" (I know the old KGB has tentacles, but to believe they can influence what the US president says is a bit of a stretch) then fair enough.
I've answered it though

I've shown you a clip of Russian disinformation at work

And you've just repeated it

Seriously mate!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:45 pm
I've answered it though

I've shown you a clip of Russian disinformation at work

And you've just repeated it

Seriously mate!
Are you saying Biden didn’t say that, I have no idea what the truth is on this one. #confused

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:01 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:54 pm
Are you saying Biden didn’t say that, I have no idea what the truth is on this one. #confused
You do have an idea though Lowbank!

The alternative is that the US blew up a German pipeline

It really is that simple

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:45 pm
I've answered it though

I've shown you a clip of Russian disinformation at work

And you've just repeated it

Seriously mate!
To be fair, you didn't say why it wouldn't be USA , you outlined why you thought it had to be Russia.
Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:54 am
But then they run out of money in about a month

I've already said why I think its Russia but it does bear repeating

1) They don't care if they are found out - see Salisbury poisoning

2) They know people will believe "why would they do it"

3) They still supply gas through overland pipes, which is financing their war

4) They hope it will cause the energy market to contract again, and hope that will affect Western support for Ukraine

5) Russian ships and submarines have been training around critical NATO/EU underwater infrastructure for at least the past five years
You question my sources. My source is a White House press conference. You ask do I really belive a NATO member would sabotage a fellow NATO member infrastructure. I'd say of course, if that means the result cuts off a vital source of finance for Russia.

You need to stop asking why would USA sabotage a vital source of finance for Russia , and ask why wouldn't it !?
Last edited by 1882Clarets1882 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by LeadBelly » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:08 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:13 pm
Lyman is looking like it’s nearly encircled.

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... ovsAcIA6_g
If the defenders are going to retreat thay need to move very soon or there'll be no way out at all (and even if they move out now they'll be running the gauntlet of artillery fire).
I believe there are a few thousand Russian troops in the area. Could be a lot of prisoners to deal with. They seem to have defended very stoutly but it'll be hopeless when they're enclosed with no supplies.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:10 pm


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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:11 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:08 pm
To be fair, you didn't say why it wouldn't be USA , you outlined why you thought it had to be Russia.



You question my sources. My source is a White House press conference. You ask do I really belive a NATO member would sabotage a fellow NATO member infrastructure. I'd say of course, if that means the result cuts off a vital source of finance for Russia.

You need to stop asking why would USA sabotage a vital source of finance for Russia , and ask why wouldn't it !?
You are completely down the Russian disinformation spiral mate, and there is no helping you
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:11 pm
You are completely down the Russian disinformation spiral mate, and there is no helping you
If you choose see what Biden has previously publicly said in a press conference and refuse to see how it would damage Russia , as "Russian disinformation." Then that's one hell of a rabbit hole you've found yourself and, I can genuinely see climbing out of it to answer a straight forward question must be so difficult for you. I'm done.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:26 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:21 pm
If you choose see what Biden has previously publicly said in a press conference and refuse to see how it would damage Russia , as "Russian disinformation." Then that's one hell of a rabbit hole you've found yourself and, I can genuinely see climbing out of it to answer a straight forward question must be so difficult for you. I'm done.
You haven't actually read any of my replies

Look mate, people believe all sorts of s**t online, that is 100% their business

If you are going to post your theories on a public forum, then you are going to get shot down

Last chance, do you genuinely believe that the US blew up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:35 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:26 pm
You haven't actually read any of my replies

Look mate, people believe all sorts of s**t online, that is 100% their business

If you are going to post your theories on a public forum, then you are going to get shot down

Last chance, do you genuinely believe that the US blew up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member?
Could they do? Yes.The justification? It cuts off finance to Russia. Will we ever find out if they actually did? Doubt it. The Russians could simply have turned off the taps.

Last chance for you now. Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia?

BTW you "haven't shot me down"
Last edited by 1882Clarets1882 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:37 pm

Lancaster,
The time to destroy the pipeline was now when it was effectively closed anyway.

Experts are saying the sea water will cause irreparable damage, so Nordstream 1 and 2 are done.

I can only see two countries who might have done it and can see argument's for and against both doing so. Do I think the US or Russia could have done it, yes to both.

Who do I think did it, no idea.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:39 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:35 pm
Could they do? Yes.The justification? It cuts off finance to Russia. Will we ever find out if they actually did? Doubt it. The Russians could simply have turned off the taps.

Last chance for you now. Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia?

BTW you "haven't shot me down"
Both pipelines were shut down, they had turned off the taps already, well Nordstream 2 never even opened.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:43 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:39 pm
Both pipelines were shut down, they had turned off the taps already, well Nordstream 2 never even opened.
True enough, but doesn't that simply add more credence to the idea it would be the USA off the back of Bidens publicly stated assertion that, " if Russia invades, I promise you it won't happen".

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:45 pm

Enola Gay wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:28 pm
Quite a bit of *ahem* artistic licence taken with the subtitles there…
I am going to pretend I haven't seen your post, some of the subtitles were quite funny

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:50 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:35 pm
Could they do? Yes.The justification? It cuts off finance to Russia. Will we ever find out if they actually did? Doubt it. The Russians could simply have turned off the taps.

Last chance for you now. Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia?

BTW you "haven't shot me down"
Yes, I rather think I have!

Do you believe that Russian FSB agents conducted the Salisbury poisoning btw?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:51 pm

Nord stream 1 was still being used Lowbank, I think its been shut down for maintenance this week though

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:51 pm
Nord stream 1 was still being used Lowbank, I think its been shut down for maintenance this week though
I could be wrong but I thought it never re-opened after the “maintenance “ it needed a few weeks ago. I was under the impression the only gas deliveries were through the ground pipes that goes through Ukraine.

But I could easily be wrong.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:51 pm
Nord stream 1 was still being used Lowbank, I think its been shut down for maintenance this week though
NS 1 was shutdown for maintenance in August and has had nothing flowing through it since then.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:50 pm
Yes, I rather think I have!

Do you believe that Russian FSB agents conducted the Salisbury poisoning btw?
Yes.

Anyway , moving on from the strawman. I answered your question with a straight forward "yes". Your refusing to do the same to my question - Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia? Is hardly "shooting you down"

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:07 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:01 pm
Yes.

Anyway , moving on from the strawman. I answered your question with a straight forward "yes". Your refusing to do the same to my question - Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia? Is hardly "shooting you down"
I've already said "No I don't"

I've already given you the reasons for both why Russia would do it, and why the US wouldn't

All you've given me is a clip of Biden saying that Nord Stream 2 will never go on line, something that happened without the explosions six months ago when Chancellor Scholz of Germany permanently closed it before it even became operational

And you didn't even give me that clip, I found it in 0.5 seconds and also told you its been repeated and retweeted by Russian troll accounts saying that this meant the US blew it up

I'm very comfortable with my position, as i feel I've backed it up a lot more than you have
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... SApp_Other

Says it was stopped at the end of Aug.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:09 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:08 pm
If the defenders are going to retreat thay need to move very soon or there'll be no way out at all (and even if they move out now they'll be running the gauntlet of artillery fire).
I believe there are a few thousand Russian troops in the area. Could be a lot of prisoners to deal with. They seem to have defended very stoutly but it'll be hopeless when they're enclosed with no supplies.
The truth is you could lose a lot of troops trying to take Lyman. Its far easier to just bypass it altogether and wait them out. Without supplies and support they are knackered, and they don't have enough numbers to break out of there. As others have said if they don't leave soon, they aren't leaving at all.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:12 pm

Surely that’s not the real translation?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:18 pm

Hipper wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:30 am
On gas supplies, I understand that there is still gas arriving from Russia to Europe via the land pipelines.

Map as at 2020:

https://w3ask.com/map-gas-pipelines-europe/

If Russia want to stop all their gas supplies to Europe (particularly Western Europe) as a war tactic - a good one from their point of view - it would seem the next target would be the one through Belarus.
To answer myself, the Belarus pipeline was closed in May.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:19 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:07 pm
I've already said "No I don't"

I've already given you the reasons for both why Russia would do it, and why the US wouldn't

All you've given me is a clip of Biden saying that Nord Stream 2 will never go on line, something that happened without the explosions six months ago when Chancellor Scholz of Germany permanently closed it before it even became operational

And you didn't even give me that clip, I found it in 0.5 seconds and also told you its been repeated and retweeted by Russian troll accounts saying that this meant the US blew it up

I'm very comfortable with my position, as i feel I've backed it up a lot more than you have
Snap! I too am very comfortable with my position. Which is to express a view, an opinion. Now I know you seem to have adopted the mantle of self appointed messageboard sheriff of correct thought . However you really need to resist the urge to "shoot people down" for simply expressing a different opinion to yours. It's not your job. There was never a vacancy. Thank you.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:29 pm

All these gas goings on - the pipeline damage, the 'dispute' with Ukraine - all seem to be destabilising the gas market, something that definitely is to the short term Russian advantage in this war.

If looked at as a total strategy it can be seen as more likely that Russians were behind the pipeline damage. Then the question is how.

Could they, for example, send an explosive device down the pipes from Russia? When/if the Swedes or Danish get a camera down to the damage it will be interesting to see the nature of it.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:33 pm

Anyway there's evidence on Twitter that the Russians were the cause:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DarthPutinKG ... 1810200578
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:33 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:12 pm
Surely that’s not the real translation?
Can’t be, but it’s a hilarious interpretation 😂

Whatever - it’s getting heated. They know they’re on the ropes and losing badly.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:34 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:19 pm
Snap! I too am very comfortable with my position. Which is to express a view, an opinion. Now I know you seem to have adopted the mantle of self appointed messageboard sheriff of correct thought . However you really need to resist the urge to "shoot people down" for simply expressing a different opinion to yours. It's not your job. There was never a vacancy. Thank you.
Its an opinion based on Russian misinformation though

Mine is based on independent reporting and actual stuff that has happened

But we will have to agree to disagree!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:34 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:01 pm
Yes.

Anyway , moving on from the strawman. I answered your question with a straight forward "yes". Your refusing to do the same to my question - Do you genuinely believe that the US wouldnt blow up a critical infrastructure pipeline of a fellow NATO member, if it would have an adverse effect on a vital source of finance for Russia? Is hardly "shooting you down"
I was reading about the Rand report yesterday on this topic, which was supposed to have been an official leaked document that was regarding the US talking about the US taking advantage of weakening Germany in financial terms. However, there was a follow up from Rand saying that the report was not real but it has caused lot's of chatter as one would expect and highlights how much disinformation is out there, sifting through it is difficult and it needs an open mind.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:35 pm

Love Darth Putin!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:57 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:34 pm
I was reading about the Rand report yesterday on this topic, which was supposed to have been an official leaked document that was regarding the US talking about the US taking advantage of weakening Germany in financial terms. However, there was a follow up from Rand saying that the report was not real but it has caused lot's of chatter as one would expect and highlights how much disinformation is out there, sifting through it is difficult and it needs an open mind.
Hi Kate. I do have an open mind. My view that the US could have good reason to sabotage infrastructure that harms a vital source of finance for Russia is probably not the majority view. However, simply because the openly available clip of Bidens assertion that if Russia invades , " I promise you Nordstream 2 will not happen" is hardly a falsely produced leaked document. My view is further strengthened by simply asking the question what would Russia gain by damaging a pipeline that they could simply turn off? Answer , nothing. I may well be proven wrong, however, it's a poor do if someone wants to share an opinion without others feeling the urge to "shoot you down" simply for not sharing theirs.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:34 pm
I was reading about the Rand report yesterday on this topic, which was supposed to have been an official leaked document that was regarding the US talking about the US taking advantage of weakening Germany in financial terms. However, there was a follow up from Rand saying that the report was not real but it has caused lot's of chatter as one would expect and highlights how much disinformation is out there, sifting through it is difficult and it needs an open mind.
Question for you, sorry if you cannot answer.

They are saying the pipes will fill with sea water and never be able to be opened again?? Do you think that’s true?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:43 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm
Question for you, sorry if you cannot answer.

They are saying the pipes will fill with sea water and never be able to be opened again?? Do you think that’s true?
No I don't believe it.

I spoke with a couple of pipeline experts I know late yesterday, in there opinion it will take very little time to repair, you need to cut out an area surrounding the holes, should only take one day for each with a single team, double up and manage that. New fabricated spools will be needed, relatively quick, these then need to be taken down and welded in place, there opinion is a week's worth of work, call it 10 days for a team. The longer time will be taken in selecting and arranging a team/boat etc. and someone to manage the whole operation.

However, the bigger issue is then needing to clear the seawater out after repairs and coating the internals, this is done by running a pig train which will have different pig, sponge/brush and then having a large volume of corrosion inhibition material, followed by other pigs. The volume of the corrosion inhibitor will reduce as it will be left on the whole length of the internal pipewall, this is require even down to a mono micro coating which is absorbed into the metal to protect the full length.

The "big" issue is; it can only be done by sending from the Russian end, as the pig launchers will almost certainly be there and there will no be bi-directional pigging capability, will the Russians be willing to do this is the big question, especially if they sabotaged the line in the first place?

You have to time the speed of the pig train, this is done by the pressure of the gas behind the pig train, as what is in front will be low pressure except for whatever water build up there is, the water will be pushed out at the Europe end on landfall where the pig receivers will be. The gas behind the train does not need to be the gas produced normally, nitrogen could be used for example and the speed needs to be relatively slow so no need for the large compressors, which have a perceived maintenance issue.

These pig trains are standard for every pipeline and I have managed a few over the years, but of course these are just about the longest in the world, but again, in my opinion can be easily put back in operation, but only if all parties agree and work together.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:45 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:01 pm
Question for you, sorry if you cannot answer.

They are saying the pipes will fill with sea water and never be able to be opened again?? Do you think that’s true?
The inside of the pipe is steel. I don't know if it's coated with anything.

Steel will corrode when submerged in sea water but a plus is that the Baltic is pretty near a fresh water lake with low salinity. Of course it will depend how long the water is in there and also perhaps how oxygenated it remains (I'd guess the water will lose oxygen the longer it stays inside the pipe).

That's the little I know, and that might not be worth anything!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:47 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:43 pm
No I don't believe it.

I spoke with a couple of pipeline experts I know late yesterday, in there opinion it will take very little time to repair, you need to cut out an area surrounding the holes, should only take one day for each with a single team, double up and manage that. New fabricated spools will be needed, relatively quick, these then need to be taken down and welded in place, there opinion is a week's worth of work, call it 10 days for a team. The longer time will be taken in selecting and arranging a team/boat etc. and someone to manage the whole operation.

However, the bigger issue is then needing to clear the seawater out after repairs and coating the internals, this is done by running a pig train which will have different pig, sponge/brush and then having a large volume of corrosion inhibition material, followed by other pigs. The volume of the corrosion inhibitor will reduce as it will be left on the whole length of the internal pipewall, this is require even down to a mono micro coating which is absorbed into the metal to protect the full length.

The "big" issue is; it can only be done by sending from the Russian end, as the pig launchers will almost certainly be there and there will no be bi-directional pigging capability, will the Russians be willing to do this is the big question, especially if they sabotaged the line in the first place?

You have to time the speed of the pig train, this is done by the pressure of the gas behind the pig train, as what is in front will be low pressure except for whatever water build up there is, the water will be pushed out at the Europe end on landfall where the pig receivers will be. The gas behind the train does not need to be the gas produced normally, nitrogen could be used for example and the speed needs to be relatively slow so no need for the large compressors, which have a perceived maintenance issue.

These pig trains are standard for every pipeline and I have managed a few over the years, but of course these are just about the longest in the world, but again, in my opinion can be easily put back in operation, but only if all parties agree and work together.
Could these 'pig trains' be used for transporting a bomb? Do they require the other end to be open?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:56 pm

Hipper wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:47 pm
Could these 'pig trains' be used for transporting a bomb? Do they require the other end to be open?
Theoretically yes they could if designed right.

Typically the receiving end will not have the pig trap itself open, they are as large as the pipeline itself, they will have vents (and in this case drains) open to allow what is in front of the pig train somewhere to go and they can control the backpressure in front of the pig train to assist with speed, especially when close and in the end stage as it enters the pig receiver.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:01 pm

If anyone is remotely interested the link gives a good over view for different pigging options and a few nice picture so it can be visualized.

https://www.piping-world.com/pipeline-p ... -procedure
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:02 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:43 pm
No I don't believe it.

I spoke with a couple of pipeline experts I know late yesterday, in there opinion it will take very little time to repair, you need to cut out an area surrounding the holes, should only take one day for each with a single team, double up and manage that. New fabricated spools will be needed, relatively quick, these then need to be taken down and welded in place, there opinion is a week's worth of work, call it 10 days for a team. The longer time will be taken in selecting and arranging a team/boat etc. and someone to manage the whole operation.

However, the bigger issue is then needing to clear the seawater out after repairs and coating the internals, this is done by running a pig train which will have different pig, sponge/brush and then having a large volume of corrosion inhibition material, followed by other pigs. The volume of the corrosion inhibitor will reduce as it will be left on the whole length of the internal pipewall, this is require even down to a mono micro coating which is absorbed into the metal to protect the full length.

The "big" issue is; it can only be done by sending from the Russian end, as the pig launchers will almost certainly be there and there will no be bi-directional pigging capability, will the Russians be willing to do this is the big question, especially if they sabotaged the line in the first place?

You have to time the speed of the pig train, this is done by the pressure of the gas behind the pig train, as what is in front will be low pressure except for whatever water build up there is, the water will be pushed out at the Europe end on landfall where the pig receivers will be. The gas behind the train does not need to be the gas produced normally, nitrogen could be used for example and the speed needs to be relatively slow so no need for the large compressors, which have a perceived maintenance issue.

These pig trains are standard for every pipeline and I have managed a few over the years, but of course these are just about the longest in the world, but again, in my opinion can be easily put back in operation, but only if all parties agree and work together.
Great to have an expert on board, thank you for the detailed info.

As an engineer, that all made sense. Hopefully it does to everyone.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:21 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:01 pm
If anyone is remotely interested the link gives a good over view for different pigging options and a few nice picture so it can be visualized.

https://www.piping-world.com/pipeline-p ... -procedure
It seems important that the pigability of these pipes is ensured.

Pigability is my word of the day.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:37 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:02 pm
Great to have an expert on board, thank you for the detailed info.

As an engineer, that all made sense. Hopefully it does to everyone.
I gave a quick overview, almost certainly due to the new welded spool pieces they will run gauge pigs first, that will ensure the full length of the line but especially the new pieces and welds are aligned and don't damage future operations for pigging as very expensive pigs such as intelligent pigs will definitely be run in the future. Additionally I'm sure they'll have foam pigs in the train to dry/mop up any remaining water.

After pipelines are constructed/installed they are hydrotested with water to ensure no leaks, however even if seawater is used it will be treated with biocides, once complete they need to be dewatered, depending what is the product to flow. The product will dictate how pig trains are assembled and what treatment is used, oil you don't have to worry about hydrates etc. which you would do for gas lines as dew point is a critical element.

I also should add that where the explosions took place is relatively shallow water and doesn't need for deep SAT divers to do the work, so that helps in time to do repairs.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:50 pm

On a different topic but sticking with the thread, yesterday I spoke with a few people in Kazakhstan on potential business, but we touched on the subject of the war, there were Americans, Kazak's, Dutch and a Brit. One important fact that was brought up was regarding all the Russians leaving and entering Kazakhstan. I have been there many times and of course was part of Russia and in the beginning, 15 years ago Russian was the spoken language and every town I went to looked like similar towns in Russia I have visited. Approx. 10 years ago there was a big government drive to have the population speak Kazakh and not Russian, many older people could not speak Kazakh at all so it was quite an undertaking. They have been trying to distance themselves from Russia a long time.

The point brought up was that all these "young" people entering the country contained an element of men that believed in Putin and still do but are not prepared to go to the front. However there was fear these people would cause unrest and try to form pockets of areas that were Russian speakers and that given enough time it might end up like East Ukraine with Russia saying they would annex. I suppose Georgia would fall into a similar category and might be cause for concern regarding the future.

Just a thought

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