Russia Invades

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Aclaret
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Aclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:55 pm

These Russian people crossing into Georgia, Kazakhstan and other countries, are they now classed as refugees ?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:50 pm
On a different topic but sticking with the thread, yesterday I spoke with a few people in Kazakhstan on potential business, but we touched on the subject of the war, there were Americans, Kazak's, Dutch and a Brit. One important fact that was brought up was regarding all the Russians leaving and entering Kazakhstan. I have been there many times and of course was part of Russia and in the beginning, 15 years ago Russian was the spoken language and every town I went to looked like similar towns in Russia I have visited. Approx. 10 years ago there was a big government drive to have the population speak Kazakh and not Russian, many older people could not speak Kazakh at all so it was quite an undertaking. They have been trying to distance themselves from Russia a long time.

The point brought up was that all these "young" people entering the country contained an element of men that believed in Putin and still do but are not prepared to go to the front. However there was fear these people would cause unrest and try to form pockets of areas that were Russian speakers and that given enough time it might end up like East Ukraine with Russia saying they would annex. I suppose Georgia would fall into a similar category and might be cause for concern regarding the future.

Just a thought
That is exactly what Putin uses, he is freeing Russian speaking people from being suppressed. Hence he invaded.
Amongst ten other reasons he makes up.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm

That is of course what Hitler did too.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:05 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:50 pm
On a different topic but sticking with the thread, yesterday I spoke with a few people in Kazakhstan on potential business, but we touched on the subject of the war, there were Americans, Kazak's, Dutch and a Brit. One important fact that was brought up was regarding all the Russians leaving and entering Kazakhstan. I have been there many times and of course was part of Russia and in the beginning, 15 years ago Russian was the spoken language and every town I went to looked like similar towns in Russia I have visited. Approx. 10 years ago there was a big government drive to have the population speak Kazakh and not Russian, many older people could not speak Kazakh at all so it was quite an undertaking. They have been trying to distance themselves from Russia a long time.

The point brought up was that all these "young" people entering the country contained an element of men that believed in Putin and still do but are not prepared to go to the front. However there was fear these people would cause unrest and try to form pockets of areas that were Russian speakers and that given enough time it might end up like East Ukraine with Russia saying they would annex. I suppose Georgia would fall into a similar category and might be cause for concern regarding the future.

Just a thought
I've visited Astana in 2012/2013. Part of a team from work discussing energy prices. I had to give a presentation on energy risk management (no, it didn't include risk of someone blowing up your pipelines, just financial risks). My presentation was supposed to be one hour, but I was speaking/presenting in English and Russian translations were organised: I'd say one sentence, then pause while it was translated into Russian. My one hour presentation became 2 hours with everything being repeated in Russian. An experience.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:08 pm

Think the big difference is that China is a guarantee of Kazakhstan territorial integrity

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by conyoviejo » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:01 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:05 pm
I've visited Astana in 2012/2013. Part of a team from work discussing energy prices. I had to give a presentation on energy risk management (no, it didn't include risk of someone blowing up your pipelines, just financial risks). My presentation was supposed to be one hour, but I was speaking/presenting in English and Russian translations were organised: I'd say one sentence, then pause while it was translated into Russian. My one hour presentation became 2 hours with everything being repeated in Russian. An experience.
That's okay,if they are translating it word for word and not putting their own meaning to it..

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:41 pm

Aclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:55 pm
These Russian people crossing into Georgia, Kazakhstan and other countries, are they now classed as refugees ?
Usually when countries are invaded people leave but this must be the first time that people from the invading country actually leave.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:56 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:01 pm
That's okay,if they are translating it word for word and not putting their own meaning to it..
I learnt after I'd finished my presentation that the two translators didn't understand the term "derivatives" - which is effectively what energy risk management is all about. I'm not sure what words they used, but one of the delegates listening to my presentation was a trader with (as almost all traders do) good English as well as native Russian. Apparently, he'd tried to tell the translators that they'd got it wrong several times, then just gave up telling them again.

One of my colleagues from London, a Brit, had studied Russian at Leeds Uni and had done a year of his degree living in Astana. So, for the afternoon session, the translators were "let go" and my colleague did all the translating.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:43 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:05 pm
I've visited Astana in 2012/2013. Part of a team from work discussing energy prices. I had to give a presentation on energy risk management (no, it didn't include risk of someone blowing up your pipelines, just financial risks). My presentation was supposed to be one hour, but I was speaking/presenting in English and Russian translations were organised: I'd say one sentence, then pause while it was translated into Russian. My one hour presentation became 2 hours with everything being repeated in Russian. An experience.
Been to Astana and Almaty, but mostly to Atyrau, Astana is a lovely place while Atyrau is not a very nice place, Almaty old world charm, but was only there for a short visit. Also done conferences in Astana and of course with Russian speaking translators, I found out early, big difference in translators and interpreters. Interpreters typically change your wording in the moment as you speak, where translators will use many tools to change text as they can never know every word, had similar problem to you in the beginning, but then finished early, gave it to a translator who would do the same presentation in Russian, or other languages, such that my interpreter had the right words in the right language. It takes time and understanding not to get to far ahead, sometimes it seemed to me they were speaking twice as long as I had been doing and it's disconcerting.

Got to be the same for these countries trying to do the reverse and present news in English, not an easy task and sometimes meaning is lost from inflection also. I truly admire people who are able to speak other languages properly, I've still got a few Russian friends but mainly from far east Russia, one whom I was instrumental in getting transferred to our Amsterdam office, who I chat with occasionally even now. They don't think like we do, the same can be said for various countries I have lived in, it's just a different culture and some times difficult to comprehend there thinking.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:21 am

Victoria Nuland Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs of the United States, January 2022.

"I want to be clear with you today. If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nordstream 2 will not move forward."

https://youtu.be/RLeAgMF0Q6Y

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:32 am

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:21 am
Victoria Nuland Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs of the United States, January 2022.

"I want to be clear with you today. If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nordstream 2 will not move forward."

https://youtu.be/RLeAgMF0Q6Y
A good prediction, Germany suspended the certification of Nordstream 2 on 22 February 2022.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by welsbyswife » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:33 am

Ok 1882, I think we get the point. You think it was the yanks, Lancaster says the Russians. In reality none of us know one way or the other. Please can we get the thread back on track with informative stuff and updates rather than the I'm right and you're wrong type stuff that spoils much of the rest of the board. It really has been a great thread to date so let's not spoil it please.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:00 am


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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:03 am

Can i suggest that Kate & Paul Waine "get a room" to talk about all that sexy pipeline stuff! :D
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:32 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:03 am
Can i suggest that Kate & Paul Waine "get a room" to talk about all that sexy pipeline stuff! :D
I'd be, as always, a voyeur. :x
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:05 am

welsbyswife wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:33 am
Ok 1882, I think we get the point. You think it was the yanks, Lancaster says the Russians. In reality none of us know one way or the other. Please can we get the thread back on track with informative stuff and updates rather than the I'm right and you're wrong type stuff that spoils much of the rest of the board. It really has been a great thread to date so let's not spoil it please.
I simply posted information , a quote and a video, nothing else. That I felt is possibly relevant,, given the current situation, giving anyone interested the chance to form a view. I wasn't aware I had to run things past you first. Cheers for that.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Loyalclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:53 am

Could be that Biden was talking about certification?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Claret Toni » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:06 am

Truly grateful for the informed comments posted on this thread. Just thought I'd add my take on the gas pipelines situation, as I see it, as an uninformed bystander.

I recall Boris Nemtsov, Russian opposition leader and former critic of Putin who was murdered (shot dead) in sight of the Kremlin. A simple message from Putin - I'll make it obvious to all who is in charge and what I can do.

Opponents are currently falling to their deaths in, shall we say, surprising numbers.

The leaks to NS1 & NS2, occurred in the Danish & Swedish economic zones - obvious to all it was sabotage, and occurred just before the Baltic Pipe was opened.

IMHO it's just another example of Putin's modus operandi - he threatens everyone who opposes him and appears to have no scruples.

Of course, there will be naysayers, but just my opinion.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:45 am

Loyalclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:53 am
Could be that Biden was talking about certification?
Yes

But its like all conspiracy sutff, they only need a tiny bit to read an absolute shed loads into it

I'll repeat, all he is doing is repeating Russian disinformation, word for word, and he's completely fine with that

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:48 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sea-cables

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-sh ... ntar-ship/

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... et-cables/

The Russians even have a submarine dedicated to this job (its called the Belgorod, and to be fair, its currently in the Northern Fleet at Murmansk)

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:01 am

Regarding the war, the situation around Lyman remains a bit unclear

What is clear is that its going to be surrounded, and its not at all clear why the Russians haven't noticed that yet

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:23 am

Well, Russia certainly doesn't believe that international rules apply to them

If this doesn't stop China and India (or anyone else) supporting them then nothing will and we'll have a huge, destructive war

https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1575428888074887168

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Claret Toni » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:30 am

I'm pretty sure they will have noticed the Lyman situation, but if Putin is micromanaging the special military operation he won't let them retreat / escape. Of course, there's the 10-year jail sentence for anyone surrendering. Irrespective of the Russian manpower loss, Ukraine will take casualties and their army will be weakened. Wouldn't surprise me if there is a Wagner detachment at the rear, to dissuade any wannabe retreaters.

Perhaps the Ukraine army would sit outside and pound the encircled, perhaps just starve them out. Whatever, an invidious situation for Putin's forces.

IMHO

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:02 pm

I agree with CT, I wouldn't even waste time trying to clear Lyman, it would take unnecessary casualties, just cut them off and leave them to stew. Everytime they poke their heads above the parapet just hit them from 20 miles away. It's a lot easier to clear the villages, and the more distance they can put between Lyman and Russian forces, the weaker their position becomes.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:46 pm

Claret Toni wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:30 am
I'm pretty sure they will have noticed the Lyman situation, but if Putin is micromanaging the special military operation he won't let them retreat / escape. Of course, there's the 10-year jail sentence for anyone surrendering. Irrespective of the Russian manpower loss, Ukraine will take casualties and their army will be weakened. Wouldn't surprise me if there is a Wagner detachment at the rear, to dissuade any wannabe retreaters.

Perhaps the Ukraine army would sit outside and pound the encircled, perhaps just starve them out. Whatever, an invidious situation for Putin's forces.

IMHO
I can't believe that the Russians will have forgotten that much about how much of a disaster such micro management was 1941-42 in WWII

But I agree the only possible reason for hanging on will be for political reasons, which will cost them massively in the long run

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by SurreyClaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:17 pm

It's ok saying that, but what about the poor buggers trapped in the town. I know who is going to starve first, and it won't be the Russians that have remained there, plus I guess theres a risk of them using the locals as hostages/human shields.

Hopefully it won't come to that, but Putin seems to have lost the plot further, and is happy to watch his soldiers die rather than pull back which every logical commander would have done by now. My guess is he's trying to slow the Ukrainians down until the Winter mud does that for him.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by KateR » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:21 pm

I think the war/fighting is secondary to Putin right now, first and foremost the elections, annexation, celebrations, defining and setting the stage for Ukraine is attacking mother Russia and our lands, this gives us the right to defend ourselves, including the use of tactical nuclear weapons (TNW's). The worst is yet to come, I fear the worst at this time, the West/NATO's response, which will align with Ukraine is going to have to be done extremely carefully, do they give Ukraine TNW's for example. Obviously there will be a ramp up of sanctions obviously and new names will be added to the list, but clearly these take time to hurt and will not stop Putin in the least, will the UN dispel Russia? I think not but I believe they should, just as a part of the ramp up and to let the world know clearly that a whole country is being punished and that one man is responsible, yet his newly added territory will be seen as a victory down to one man and will be celebrated by millions of Russians.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm

These guys going to the front, Jesus I would not want these guys anywhere near me with a gun.

https://twitter.com/epicgopfail/status/ ... Hef-VJ0ARQ

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:17 pm

I don’t link many Russian threads but this is worth a read. It’s in English too

https://twitter.com/natashasrussia/stat ... Hef-VJ0ARQ

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:25 pm

Some fighting footage, very scary, but no bodies or anyone hit.

https://twitter.com/blue_sauron/status/ ... Hef-VJ0ARQ

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by SurreyClaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:31 pm

Agree, but I don't think NATO, or the Ukrainians, will care one bit about what Putin tells his people. NATO won't recognise these areas as Russia, and will continue to back Ukraine until they force them out of all areas, hopefully even the areas held before all this started. The US announcing they will send another 18 HIMARS systems yesterday shows the lack of respect Biden has for Putin and his plans.

Putin doesn't seem to realise that the Russians problems are not manpower, but experienced manpower and leadership, which have both taken huge losses, and this is something they will really struggle to overcome. The cannon fodder conscripts, who they are currently sending to the front with zero or very minimal training, will only serve to slow things down slightly. The Russians shockingly poor logistics and massively depleted weaponry and supplies, mean that these "soldiers" will not be well equipped and unable to deal with the cold winter ahead. Unfortunately for them, they face no real chance against the battle hardened and technologically advanced Ukrainians, who remain well motivated, and backed by NATO's weapons.

Zelensky has been once step ahead of Putin all the way along, and I can't really see that changing. It will take longer than anyone wants, 10's of thousands will die needlessly, but Ukraine and NATO can not afford to, and will not back down to Russia. NATO need to show they are prepared to put people who threaten borders back in their place, and do such a good job of it, it deters others from doing the same in the future.

One of the biggest things to come out of this is how Russia have been vastly overrated as a fighting force - the focus is on the spending, but it's also overlooked the vast amounts of corruption that meant the money went elsewhere (Putin and his cronies). At the same time, HIMARS and other systems have shown how good western military equipment truly is. No one will buy weapons from Russia again, and China has to be thinking twice about attacking Taiwan after what has happened. Countries around the world should be lining up to join NATO now as well.

I do (somehow) feel sorry for these Russian men. Some are being forced, but many are just so deluded they don't realise the are being lead needlessly to their deaths. They are following orders based on the desires of a narcissistic mad man (where has that happened before!), and their indoctrination by a state media (that has massively over inflated their own peoples sense of entitlement), is just leading them like lemmings over a cliff.

Ukraine will win this, I have no doubt, but it's going to be a war of attrition unfortunately. An internal coup is the best we can all hope for, but if it was going to happen, it probably would have happened by now sadly.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by SurreyClaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:31 pm

Sorry, that was in reply to Kate's post!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:02 pm

SurreyClaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:31 pm
Sorry, that was in reply to Kate's post!
I thought that was a great post.

One thing I see on videos that’s going to make a big difference in coming months.

Russians are crowd funding for underwear for their troops.

Ukrainians have been raising money for months buying night vision google, tens of thousands of Ukrainians now have them.

There will be no leaves on the trees soon and it will be dark more then light.

I suspect it’s one reason they over ran the Russians before once they got through the front line troops.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:09 pm

BBC WORLD: Russia to formally annex four more areas of Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/157 ... IcAlPu259w

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:05 pm

I have seen two disturbing videos which I won’t link.
One a teenager jumps down several stairs whilst his mate has his leg leaning on the bottom step , so when his mate lands on it. It snaps his leg.

Another where another lad uses a sledge hammer to snap his mates arm.

Poor guys going to these lengths to not go to war.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:18 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:05 pm
I have seen two disturbing videos which I won’t link.
One a teenager jumps down several stairs whilst his mate has his leg leaning on the bottom step , so when his mate lands on it. It snaps his leg.

Another where another lad uses a sledge hammer to snap his mates arm.

Poor guys going to these lengths to not go to war.
It shows what they think of their survival chances if they go to the front.
Despite all the internal propaganda, it appears many Russians know what is going on with their army inside Ukraine. I saw the other day some of the local women protesters in the Dagestan areas saying something like - our sons will just be burnt to death in tanks.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:36 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:48 am
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sea-cables

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-sh ... ntar-ship/

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... et-cables/

The Russians even have a submarine dedicated to this job (its called the Belgorod, and to be fair, its currently in the Northern Fleet at Murmansk)
I'm not overly concerned about this.

I'm sure NATO, the West generally, have relevant tools to deal with similar opportunities if war occurs and likewise will have some protective measures. There's nothing new about this.

For example we often hear stories of Russian aircraft buzzing Scotland whilst we send up fighters to intercept. We hear less of us doing the same thing in the Baltic, the Polar region etc..

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:39 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:09 pm
BBC WORLD: Russia to formally annex four more areas of Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/157 ... IcAlPu259w
All this is for Russian home consumption, not us.

We might make a song and dance about it and Putin will enjoy the predictability and futility of it but his main aim is to achieve something for his position in Russia.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:43 pm

What we need of course is some avenue to convince the powerful people in Russia that Putin is on the wrong track and deal with it.

I'm not sure the Russian people generally can do much. However, the wall did come down. Ceucsescu was removed etc., so maybe it is possible?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:51 pm

Hipper wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:43 pm
What we need of course is some avenue to convince the powerful people in Russia that Putin is on the wrong track and deal with it.

I'm not sure the Russian people generally can do much. However, the wall did come down. Ceucsescu was removed etc., so maybe it is possible?
It was far easier for the wall to fall, it involved countries that didn't want to be controlled by Russia, just as Ukraine doesn't.
The internal consumption is difficult to assess. I'm amazed by how Putin gets away with treating some of his 'own' people as second, even third class citizens. He talks, and state TV talks, about ethnic minorities as if they just don't matter at all. Worthless nobodies that should be grateful to die for the Motherland. You get a distinct feeling that he would be too frightened to talk the same way about Moscovites, or treat them in the same heartless manner.
As long as he can avoid the pain of Ukraine hitting close to home, he can probably sit safely on his empty throne.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Nonayforever » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:20 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:05 pm
I have seen two disturbing videos which I won’t link.
One a teenager jumps down several stairs whilst his mate has his leg leaning on the bottom step , so when his mate lands on it. It snaps his leg.

Another where another lad uses a sledge hammer to snap his mates arm.

Poor guys going to these lengths to not go to war.
I know 2 lads who did the above in order to have two weeks off work so they could watch the isle Of Man TT races.
Another let a fork lift run over his foot to get £5,000 compo.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:39 am

https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1 ... 6468411392

Lyman encircled now, according to pro-Russian sources

Troops will probably still be able to get out (if they are allowed to) but very unlikely they will be able to get out without heavy losses in equipment

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by CoolClaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:43 am

Hipper wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:39 pm
All this is for Russian home consumption, not us.

We might make a song and dance about it and Putin will enjoy the predictability and futility of it but his main aim is to achieve something for his position in Russia.
I think it is so that they can deploy the conscripted army in areas of ‘Russia’ for ‘defence’

I believe they cannot conscript soldiers for taking land.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:28 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:39 am
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1 ... 6468411392

Lyman encircled now, according to pro-Russian sources

Troops will probably still be able to get out (if they are allowed to) but very unlikely they will be able to get out without heavy losses in equipment
Again from that link

Lyman is defended by Luhansk Republican Militia,, of low efficacy.
It's almost as if they aren't worth saving from a Russian viewpoint, yet they claim on one hand that they are Russians, who want to be part of Russia, and on the other a waste of space and not worth worrying about..
The hypocrisy of Putins regime is mind-boggling, how can the average Russian not see it.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:34 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:28 am
Again from that link

Lyman is defended by Luhansk Republican Militia,, of low efficacy.
It's almost as if they aren't worth saving from a Russian viewpoint, yet they claim on one hand that they are Russians, who want to be part of Russia, and on the other a waste of space and not worth worrying about..
The hypocrisy of Putins regime is mind-boggling, how can the average Russian not see it.
Complete state control of the media

Plus Russia has never been a democracy, what they have now (yes, even now) is far, far, far better than anything in the vast majority of Russians lifetimes

Without getting too sidetracked, there are people in the Uk who are quite happy to believe what they want to believe, despite all the evidence

Imagine that in Russia, but all the evidence that is readily available completely backs up the regime, all the time

Not easy

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:34 am
Complete state control of the media

Plus Russia has never been a democracy, what they have now (yes, even now) is far, far, far better than anything in the vast majority of Russians lifetimes

Without getting too sidetracked, there are people in the Uk who are quite happy to believe what they want to believe, despite all the evidence

Imagine that in Russia, but all the evidence that is readily available completely backs up the regime, all the time

Not easy
Not quite complete.

The ISW makes use of comments from Russian 'Milbloggers':

https://inews.co.uk/news/military-blogg ... ar-1631337

Of course the access to the internet for most Russians, as opposed to the Moscow area, may not be what we would imagine.
Last edited by Hipper on Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:47 am

Hipper wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 am
Not quite complete.

The ISW makes use of comments from Russian 'Milbloggers':

https://inews.co.uk/news/military-blogg ... ar-1631337
Yeah, but that section of the Russian society are also massively keen on full scale war with Ukraine

They wouldn't last five minutes if they weren't

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:14 pm

Putins speech

Key takeaways

- no negotiation over the four provinces he's annexed, but called for peace talks (???!!!???)
- no real mention of nukes
- He came across as bonkers

Could have been a lot worse

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by welsbyswife » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:33 pm

Bonkers indeed. You only need to look at the room set up when they were signing the documents with him sat regally on one side and the 4 minions on the other to work out that he sees himself as some sort of emporer. Delusional.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:36 pm

welsbyswife wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:33 pm
Bonkers indeed. You only need to look at the room set up when they were signing the documents with him sat regally on one side and the 4 minions on the other to work out that he sees himself as some sort of emporer. Delusional.
Considering how much time he spent ranting about colonialism it was beyond parody

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