what they have now (yes, even now) is far, far, far better than anything in the vast majority of Russians lifetimes

That's extremely debatable!... For some, yes, there have been more freedoms of late and opportunities for a select few but for millions of Russians, they had it far better under communism, especially in the rural areas and specifically in regards to the infrastructure...

In fact, if you travel out of the major cities, most people in those areas would say that they would go back to being a communist state if given the chance.

I think a lot of that is remembering stuff that was years ago fondly, rather than accurately!

But I guess if you were an stuck in somewhere that used to be vibrant when communism really did try to control and run everything, then the changes would be harsher and more difficult to endure

I'm not saying Putin has done a good job btw, but he was giving the illusion of wealth to a much greater number of Russians (but still a very small amount of the population) than before

Ukraine has applied to join NATO. Apparently.

I thought one of the rules was you had no undisputed borders.

Perhaps he is willing to give up the lands lost to get NATO membership.

Putin will be spitting in his tea.

At some point I think Ukraine will need a fortified border. I suppose it’s when and where it will lie. This type of annexation is often a prelude to something else. The invaders can’t be allowed time to replenish arms and regroup in a few years. Look at Crimea ( when more should have been done by other countries) and Germany annexing lands in WW2.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:44 pm

Ukraine has applied to join NATO. Apparently.

I thought one of the rules was you had no undisputed borders.

Perhaps he is willing to give up the lands lost to get NATO membership.

Putin will be spitting in his tea.

No apparently about it.

Get them onboard, welcome Ukraine

Guess Putin’s spiel about ‘not wanting a NATO member on his doorstep’ (which had some merit) is coming to fruition… almost poetic

That ‘special operation’ has really gone tits up, hasn’t it Vlad?

On Ukraine's fast-track application for NATO membership, the Ukrainian president says Finland and Sweden started [the procedure of] joining the alliance without taking part in the formal membership plan - and so it's fair for Ukraine to do the same, he says. Will clearly annoy the Kremlin, so can expect the usual rhetoric from Putin soon with lot's of threats to NATO and the west.

Appearing to refer to Vladimir Putin's earlier call for negotiations to resume between Ukraine and Russia, Zelensky says it was "our country that had always" tried to co-exist "on equal, honest, dignified and fair conditions". He also suggests peace talks with Putin are not possible, saying:

Quote Message: He doesn’t know what dignity and honesty are. That’s why we are ready for dialogue with Russia - but with another president of Russia.
He doesn’t know what dignity and honesty are. That’s why we are ready for dialogue with Russia - but with another president of Russia.

Spelled out loud and clear for all to see and hear, this war is going to drag on for quite some time, a lot of people predicted and advocated for the scenario, Russia takes part of Ukraine that was in rebellion anyway and new borders are drawn/ratified and we go back to some sense of normality with opportunities to rebuild Ukraine for some. I'm so glad he's not having any of it and publicly stating what so many believe and want, yet I don't think there's a change there any time soon.

Ukraine should have applied to join NATO when Putin announced the referenda. If Ukraine is part of NATO where does that leave Putin's threat to use strategic nukes?

jtv wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm

Ukraine should have applied to join NATO when Putin announced the referenda. If Ukraine is part of NATO where does that leave Putin's threat to use strategic nukes?

As far as I understand it, you cannot join NATO with a disputed border or territory.

So the new border would have to be agreed.

Finland and Sweden still need Turkey and Hungary (I think). So it’s not yet certain they will be allowed in.

I think it could be a good solution, albeit Ukraine has to lose some land.

Historically, we must remember Ukraine gave up its Nukes, as the UK and USA stated they would step in if Russia attacks. Which we didn’t really do.

I can see from Ukrainians point of view, this time you want some concrete guarantees. That’s NATO membership in my book.

I thought the original deal was Russia, UK and USA promising to protect Ukraine in return for giving up its nukes and not UK/USA Vs Russia?

Russia will be surrounded by NATO countries,exactly what Putin didn't want to happen.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:37 pm

I thought the original deal was Russia, UK and USA promising to protect Ukraine in return for giving up its nukes and not UK/USA Vs Russia?

Who else was going to attacks them, only Russia.!

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:45 pm

Russia will be surrounded by NATO countries,exactly what Putin didn't want to happen.

He's not remotely bothered by NATO

All he wants is a bogeyman to blame for everything

Every country does it to an extent, and no one does blaming other people for failures quite like the Russians

Reports of Russian conscripts attacking an officer for calling them cannon fodder.

https://metro-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... m=referral

He uses NATO as a fear factor stirring up anti Western propaganda he wanted a buffer he has lost it. I think the civil unrest will grow, especially when the conscripts phone home terrified of NATO weapons that they cannot compete with, the Ukraine people mot being rabid Nazis and their lack of basic equipment.

NEXTA: NATO is not involved in the conflict, but provide support to Ukraine for self-defense

He stressed that all members of the alliance would never recognize Russia's illegal annexation of Ukrainian territories.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at an emergency briefing

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/157 ... QN7fSMoX5g

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:08 pm

Who else was going to attacks them, only Russia.!

Not way back then no, Soviet Russia was in no fit state to do that.

No could've foreseen what would happen these last 10 yrs

It would seem tonight that another steps been taken on the path to war with Russia. Putins bizarre performance today suggests he seems to actually want conflict with the west. The hunt for Russian submarines in the Baltic continues and tonight various intelligence reports suggest unusually large deployment of Russian strategic bombers on the Kola peninsular.

clansman wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:45 pm

It would seem tonight that another steps been taken on the path to war with Russia. Putins bizarre performance today suggests he seems to actually want conflict with the west. The hunt for Russian submarines in the Baltic continues and tonight various intelligence reports suggest unusually large deployment of Russian strategic bombers on the Kola peninsular.

The fact we will know, by satellite, the instant they leave the ground, and meet them accordingly, makes it irrelevant.

Besides there's no suspecting their bombers and nuclear weapons, are any more reliable than their tanks. Putins playing a game of bluff, with a West that is holding a Royal Flush. It doesn't mean he won't call, but he'd be mad if he did.

clansman wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:45 pm

It would seem tonight that another steps been taken on the path to war with Russia. Putins bizarre performance today suggests he seems to actually want conflict with the west. The hunt for Russian submarines in the Baltic continues and tonight various intelligence reports suggest unusually large deployment of Russian strategic bombers on the Kola peninsular.

The fact we will know, by satellite, the instant they leave the ground, and meet them accordingly, makes it irrelevant.

Besides there's no suspecting their bombers and nuclear weapons, are any more reliable than their tanks. Putins playing a game of bluff, with a West that is holding a Royal Flush. It doesn't mean he won't call, but he'd be mad if he did.

China, India, Brazil and Gabon hang your heads in shame.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-late ... l-12541713

clansman wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:45 pm

It would seem tonight that another steps been taken on the path to war with Russia. Putins bizarre performance today suggests he seems to actually want conflict with the west. The hunt for Russian submarines in the Baltic continues and tonight various intelligence reports suggest unusually large deployment of Russian strategic bombers on the Kola peninsular.

I'm pretty sure NATO will have war-gamed every possible move Putin can make and have a counter already prepared.

Bit of a cliché but Putin is becoming increasingly like Adolf towards the end in his bunker, still ordering counter attacks from armies he doesn't any longer have etc.
It looks like Russian forces are likely to suffer a bad reverse at Lyman with loss of equipment / troops. I think his popularity will fall a lot at home if/when this happens (on top of the mobilisation fiasco) , see what happens then.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:39 pm

Not way back then no, Soviet Russia was in no fit state to do that.

No could've foreseen what would happen these last 10 yrs

Funny that, Peter Zeihan a geopolitical expert did in his book. With a full chapter explaining why Russia would and had to do.

India and China abstaining at the Security Council meeting isn't a good look

India essentially moans about colonisation and then allows Russia to do it is sadly all too 2022

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:07 pm

India and China abstaining at the Security Council meeting isn't a good look

India essentially moans about colonisation and then allows Russia to do it is sadly all too 2022

There's no surprise, or should be. Both have said Russia are wrong, but hold back from condemning them.
We've done the same, privately you voice your concerns, but publicly you say sod all.
Having Russia on the Security Council is a complete joke. They need expelling, nor just from the the council, but from the United Nations. They are a pariah, and should made to feel so.
If the UN doesn't have the stomach, then we should quit the UN, as it is irrelevant. A pointless exercise.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:17 pm

There's no surprise, or should be. Both have said Russia are wrong, but hold back from condemning them.
We've done the same, privately you voice your concerns, but publicly you say sod all.
Having Russia on the Security Council is a complete joke. They need expelling, nor just from the the council, but from the United Nations. They are a pariah, and should made to feel so.
If the UN doesn't have the stomach, then we should quit the UN, as it is irrelevant. A pointless exercise.

Now now, to borrow from the movie, Team America, I’m sure the UN will continue to send Russia one strongly worded letter after another which will of course solve everything. IMO the UN has been worthless for a very long time if not since it’s founding. Certainly at least at stopping wars involving major powers.

The UN is by no means perfect but it's all we've got.

There needs to be ways to communicate with your worst enemies and this is one of them.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1576045751209431040
https://twitter.com/i/status/1574135724470829056
The reality of the Russian army.

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/statu ... 32/photo/1

Russian military bloggers saying Lyman has fallen

Ukrainian sources claim 5,000 Russian troops encircled in the town (4 hours ago)

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:23 pm

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/statu ... 32/photo/1

Russian military bloggers saying Lyman has fallen

Ukrainian sources claim 5,000 Russian troops encircled in the town (4 hours ago)

Lots of conflicting reports (mainly from Russians) that they got out. I’m not sure there will be 5000 left. Even the Russians aren’t that stupid.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:23 pm

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/statu ... 32/photo/1

Russian military bloggers saying Lyman has fallen

Ukrainian sources claim 5,000 Russian troops encircled in the town (4 hours ago)

If some of the forces there have retreated eastwards (and that has been reported by some sources) they'll get pummelled on that road to Kreminna- its got Ukrainian forces south and north of it well within artillery range. Cant see much equipment getting out of there (or personnel if they dont surrender).

What we feared was Russians calling for the use of tactical nukes when they are getting beaten. And they are

https://twitter.com/marqs__/status/1576 ... KAT3SjFR1A

Anna Ahronheim. Military and Defence correspondent.

Israeli intelligence firm @ImageSatIntl has detected an “irregular presence” of Russian TU-160 & TU-95 strategic bombers deployed to Olenya Airbase. The base, on the Kola Peninsula, houses a significant number of military hardware, including tactical & strategic nuclear weapons

https://twitter.com/aahronheim/status/1 ... YsnIlwvKZg

Belbek airport, deep in the south of Crimea, is on fire according to reports. Presumably hit by himars.

https://mobile.twitter.com/u_me_reality ... 7939418112

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm

Belbek airport, deep in the south of Crimea, is on fire according to reports. Presumably hit by himars.

https://mobile.twitter.com/u_me_reality ... 7939418112

Seen a video of this. Incoming warplane (damaged?) rolled off the runway down an embankment towards the seashore. Went on fire then there was a secondary explosion (presume unused armaments?). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJzdiL8 ... l=TVPWorld

Map of the current situation of the front line east of Lyman. Saw loads of videos of dead troops who were trying to leave Lyman, estimates of around or over 600 dead. Plus loads of troops who surrendered.

https://twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/ ... 05h43VHxzw

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pm

Map of the current situation of the front line east of Lyman. Saw loads of videos of dead troops who were trying to leave Lyman, estimates of around or over 600 dead. Plus loads of troops who surrendered.

https://twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/ ... 05h43VHxzw

It was left it too late to withdraw in any sort of orderly fashion. Only one road to travel eastward on with the fields muddy and that road well within enemy artillery (and, in some parts, mobile infantry) range.
It's being said that a lot of the new troops surrendered - if so, good for them, pointless getting killed/maimed for Putin in those circumstances.

Ukrainians keeping their spirits up.

https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974/statu ... 05h43VHxzw

https://twitter.com/meidastouch/status/ ... 05h43VHxzw

https://twitter.com/RFERL/status/1575885757373468675

Five minute video explaining a Ukrainian attack on a fortified position

Suddenly the Kherson front not looking good tonight.

https://twitter.com/global_mil_info/sta ... ypd9QzroEw

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pm

Map of the current situation of the front line east of Lyman. Saw loads of videos of dead troops who were trying to leave Lyman, estimates of around or over 600 dead. Plus loads of troops who surrendered.

https://twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/ ... 05h43VHxzw

Dead troops trying to leave as well?

More unconfirmed reports on the Kherson front.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status ... _WtAWMbT2Q

Claretnick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:55 pm

More unconfirmed reports on the Kherson front.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status ... _WtAWMbT2Q

Beautiful. First Lyman now Kherson!

Good weekend.

Just hope they arnt pulling out of these regions in readiness for dropping some crazy bombs !

Aclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:32 pm

Just hope they arnt pulling out of these regions in readiness for dropping some crazy bombs !

Imagine bombing your own country/people?

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

Imagine bombing your own country/people?

Yes, imagine. You wouldn't put anything beyond Putin.

Aclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:40 pm

Yes, imagine. You wouldn't put anything beyond Putin.

I think Putin knows he’ll lose China ‘support’ if he uses Nukes. What he has already, anyway. But he is a madman I guess.

Some reports saying Ukraine have shifted 60km on the Kherson front. Turning in to a rout there if true.

I watched an RT clip earlier.

One guy loses it when they are talking about liberating more land. He goes on about being banned from talking about Lyman. Says he knows what is going on , on the ground and good luck taking more ground.

He better stay away from windows and coffee shops.

Found it
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/stat ... ypd9QzroEw

I was just in Belfast over the weekend and it’s one thing hearing about the Troubles etc from a far, but going and listening to locals and seeing the Peace Walls & various murals really gave me an eerie tingle down the spine - as well as a lot of food for thought… (some of the murals -especially in the Shankill road area are straight up British Fascism, extremely unsettling)

Now my point is for all the distress and generational trauma the Troubles caused, the total list of deaths is listed around 3500, with around 50K total casualties…

This war has been going on what, 8 months now and estimates of way over 100K people total lost in the war so far… it really just made me think how awful it has been and the sheer scale of it which I don’t really think I’ll ever be able to grasp.

I still don’t think a lot of the populace have any sort of grasp/idea how bad this war is.

It blows my mind that this is happening in Europe in the present day

NATO need to point the Nukes towards Moscow and make the world aware it's an eye for an eye. The Kremlin puppets will soon stop advocating the use of nuclear weapons.