‘Details’ lost us the game

[Dodobdobodobo]

No they didn’t Sean, you lost us the game.
Wrong team selection, no goals, poor tactics lost us the game. Brentford have been beaten 8 games out of ten in recent matches, apart from the Jay speculative shot and two poor efforts on goal thats all we could muster against a very very poor team.
He’s probably earned his rights to give us another go at getting out of the championship (where we are going if he doesn’t give his head a wobble) but I’m starting for the first time to have my doubts.
11 games to go can he do things differently (I doubt it) or do we throw one last dice and get someone else in to try and change things round in these three weeks before our next game.
Perhaps the time is right to part ways? COYC

[Woodleyclaret]

Spot on OP
Sean has nevered mastered the use of subs
Half an hour left you hook Westwood for Cork
Hook Dwight for Ash Barnes.Push Max wide left drop Jay back into cm and attack with Barnesy and Wout up top.
Or sit and do the square root of sod all and loose.
Sleepwalking into another defeat to a dross team

[Jamesy]

No they didn’t Sean, you lost us the game.
Wrong team selection, no goals, poor tactics lost us the game. Brentford have been beaten 8 games out of ten in recent matches, apart from the Jay speculative shot and two poor efforts on goal thats all we could muster against a very very poor team.
He’s probably earned his rights to give us another go at getting out of the championship (where we are going if he doesn’t give his head a wobble) but I’m starting for the first time to have my doubts.
11 games to go can he do things differently (I doubt it) or do we throw one last dice and get someone else in to try and change things round in these three weeks before our next game.
Perhaps the time is right to part ways? COYC

I don’t think we will be parting ways with him any time soon. Our new owners couldn’t afford to pay up his and Woan’s contracts. Hopefully when they sat down and gave them a new 4 year deal they factored in a relegation clause?

[Tricky Trevor]

Dyche didn’t head wide from 6yds. Dyche didn’t have a 1on1 with the keeper and blow it.
Players win and lose games. We played well, at times, both halves and they scored when we were making our big push for the win.
Blame Roberts and Lennon for not getting closer out wide and the CBs for one of them not being in body contact with Toney.

[ClaretMov]

I don’t think we will be parting ways with him any time soon. Our new owners couldn’t afford to pay up his and Woan’s contracts. Hopefully when they sat down and gave them a new 4 year deal they factored in a relegation clause?

I bloody hope so then that will hopefully cost us half the amount to get rid of him in the summer compared to now

[ClaretMov]

Dyche didn’t head wide from 6yds. Dyche didn’t have a 1on1 with the keeper and blow it.
Players win and lose games. We played well, at times, both halves and they scored when we were making our big push for the win.
Blame Roberts and Lennon for not getting closer out wide and the CBs for one of them not being in body contact with Toney.

Give your head a wobble and ask yourself who coaches these player's week in week out

[taio]

Give your head a wobble and ask yourself who coaches these player's week in week out

So you blame Dyche and the coaches for McNeil and Cornet's awful attempts - hilarious.

[Middle-agedClaret]

I had hoped we’d seen the last of “give your head a wobble “
Sadly not.

[BLH_Claret]

Dyche didn’t head wide from 6yds. Dyche didn’t have a 1on1 with the keeper and blow it.
Players win and lose games. We played well, at times, both halves and they scored when we were making our big push for the win.
Blame Roberts and Lennon for not getting closer out wide and the CBs for one of them not being in body contact with Toney.

Makes you wonder why Clubs need a manager when they’re never to blame.

[ClaretMov]

So you blame Dyche and the coaches for McNeil and Cornet's awful attempts - hilarious.

Yes because he's sucked the life and confidence out of this team

[ClaretMov]

I had hoped we’d seen the last of “give your head a wobble “
Sadly not.

I hoped we'd seen the last of " Dyche is the right man to get us out of the championship" sadly not

[Middle-agedClaret]

Fair comment. - and I agree.

[alwaysaclaret]

If Mee and pieters play yesterday, we don't lose that game, simple as that. But to expand on that as I've said on another thread tarkowski is absolutely not a left sided centre back, he was constantly reverting to he's normal role of right side cb, which time after time resulted in an overload on Taylor, which ultimately ended up with tarkowski marking no one, resulting in toney having acres to nod in. Same happened with the penalty, another situation for Taylor which resulted in Collins being reckless, play for England my a**e tarkowski will never play for England while he's a hole in it. And to expand on all that, all caused by dyche not addressing the left sided cb position, we've needed one for seasons, but for some reason he thinks tarkowski can cover it. I for one will be glad when he's gone, as for dyche we can't afford to get rid. And speaking of dyche, there were signs yesterday that in 6 weeks he's turned a brilliant goalscorer into a misfiring Chris Wood because he wants he's forward line to be defensive in order to cover for the likes of what tarkowski is not doing in the first place, and on top of that, wiped the confidence and potential from the other one we signed in the summer. Consequently we can't score a goal.

[Leisure]

Give your head a wobble and ask yourself who coaches these player's week in week out

So you're saying that the manager coaches the players to miss chances? Seriously!

[Leisure]

If Mee and pieters play yesterday, we don't lose that game, simple as that. But to expand on that as I've said on another thread tarkowski is absolutely not a left sided centre back, he was constantly reverting to he's normal role of right side cb, which time after time resulted in an overload on Taylor, which ultimately ended up with tarkowski marking no one, resulting in toney having acres to nod in. Same happened with the penalty, another situation for Taylor which resulted in Collins being reckless, play for England my a**e tarkowski will never play for England while he's a hole in it. And to expand on all that, all caused by dyche not addressing the left sided cb position, we've needed one for seasons, but for some reason he thinks tarkowski can cover it. I for one will be glad when he's gone, as for dyche we can't afford to get rid. And speaking of dyche, there were signs yesterday that in 6 weeks he's turned a brilliant goalscorer into a misfiring Chris Wood because he wants he's forward line to be defensive in order to cover for the likes of what tarkowski is not doing in the first place, and on top of that, wiped the confidence and potential from the other one we signed in the summer. Consequently we can't score a goal.

Thought we'd scored at Brighton and v Spurs??

[taio]

Yes because he's sucked the life and confidence out of this team

You're another one of those posters who for ages has kept saying we are definitely down yet then gets increasingly upset and will say anything to criticise after a poor result.

If we do go down I'm one of those who believes Dyche is the right man to try to get us promoted out of the Championship and he has earned the right to be given that chance.

[alwaysaclaret]

That's true, but we've not scored anywhere near enough. Simply because the forwards are too torn between performing their defensive duties, largely down to tarkowskis ego and him thinking he's levels above, and dyche's tactics and coaching methods, lots of people seem to only see the good things tarkowski does, none of the bad, he gets all the plaudits but in my opinion it's Ben mee simply making him look good.

[ClaretLoup]

So you're saying that the manager coaches the players to miss chances? Seriously!

I think you are misunderstanding here. It's the coaches job to set the team up and train the players to score goals.
Dyche has said himself that's the major problem, and bar Norwich, Burnley are the lowest scorers in the Division.

So it's him and Woany who need to sort it.

[BERNIEU]

Dyche is the right man to get us out of the Championship.

[alwaysaclaret]

Dyche is the right man to get us out of the Championship.

Not if he carries on with he's present tactics he isn't

[ClaretMov]

You're another one of those posters who for ages has kept saying we are definitely down yet then gets increasingly upset and will say anything to criticise after a poor result.

If we do go down I'm one of those who believes Dyche is the right man to try to get us promoted out of the Championship and he has earned the right to be given that chance.

okay sheep

[ClaretMov]

You're another one of those posters who for ages has kept saying we are definitely down yet then gets increasingly upset and will say anything to criticise after a poor result.

If we do go down I'm one of those who believes Dyche is the right man to try to get us promoted out of the Championship and he has earned the right to be given that chance.

I sometimes criticise after a win, the football and entertainment on show is shocking

[alwaysaclaret]

I think you are misunderstanding here. It's the coaches job to set the team up and train the players to score goals.
Dyche has said himself that's the major problem, and bar Norwich, Burnley are the lowest scorers in the Division.

So it's him and Woany who need to sort it.

Agree mate, but it's not the only problem, there's too much emphasis on forwards performing their defensive duties, which is down to dyche and woan tactics, but also yesterday and on other occasions even though mee has only been missing for a couple of games tarkowski left Taylor exposed constantly throughout the game, by reverting to he's natural position which ultimately resulted in the goals. But back to your point the forwards are never going to score enough if their constantly thinking they need to get back, it's sucking the life out of them as I say, let's hope dyche and woan sort it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[ClaretMov]

Dyche is the right man to get us out of the Championship.

He's a busted flush and along with some deluded fan's living on past history.

[alwaysaclaret]

Not sure whether he doesn't trust Collins or its just that he's compelled to drifting back to he's natural position, but also as I've said tarkowski is definitely not a lcb, and on several occasions this season he's made big mistakes that we can ill afford.

[ClaretMov]

Agree mate, but it's not the only problem, there's too much emphasis on forwards performing their defensive duties, which is down to dyche and woan tactics, but also yesterday and on other occasions even though mee has only been missing for a couple of games tarkowski left Taylor exposed constantly throughout the game, by reverting to he's natural position which ultimately resulted in the goals. But back to your point the forwards are never going to score enough if their constantly thinking they need to get back, it's sucking the life out of them as I say, let's hope dyche and woan sort it, but I'm not holding my breath.

All flair player's once they come to Burnley get that part of their game coached out of them

[Dark Cloud]

Sean talks constantly about the "fine margins" and actually he's dead right tbf because it really is fine margins. BUT when you're constantly on the wrong side of the fine margin, week in week out, you've got to look at what you're doing and either change something to get over the other side of the fine line, or maybe accept that you keep finding yourself on the wrong side of the fine margin for a reason. Like maybe because you're not good enough.

[Colburn_Claret]

Dyche didn’t head wide from 6yds. Dyche didn’t have a 1on1 with the keeper and blow it.
Players win and lose games. We played well, at times, both halves and they scored when we were making our big push for the win.
Blame Roberts and Lennon for not getting closer out wide and the CBs for one of them not being in body contact with Toney.

While all that is true, we didn't play with anywhere near enough of the tempo, or composure, to put away a very poor Brentford. So slow, so spasmodic, all we had to do was get a foot on the ball and play it to feet, and we failed to apply the pressure. Dwight and Westwood were poor, but them playing poor drags down Brownhill, Roberts, Lennon. I know you've said yourself that Jack should be back in, yet despite 2 really poor games from Westwood, he was selected to have another really poor game. That has to be SDs fault. While dropping Dwight after last week would have been a knee jerk reaction, pulling him off early yesterday would have done him and the team good. We aren't a good enough team to carry passengers. Every big game this season we have bottled it, through playing the wrong tactics, the wrong team and the slow, slow tempo. They should be a cup final and instead it's a bore fest, then blow it.

[jojomk1]

So you blame Dyche and the coaches for McNeil and Cornet's awful attempts - hilarious.

You could blame Dyche

For persisting with a sadly out of form McNeil

For playing Cornet up front and then using the usual hoof ball tactics

For just playing Westwood

[taio]

You could blame Dyche

For persisting with a sadly out of form McNeil

For playing Cornet up front and then using the usual hoof ball tactics

For just playing Westwood

I was referring specifically to the chances they missed. They are to blame for that. Personally I would have played Cork and Rodriguez instead of Westwood and Cornet respectively, but that doesn't mean McNeil and Cornet shouldn't be the ones critised for missing those great chances.

[jojomk1]

Dyche is the right man to get us out of the Championship.

You could be spot on

But not looking forward to League 1

[timel0veandtendayi]

Rant alert. Feel free to ignore!

I'm probably only repeating what's already been said but I need a place to vent.

Always been a big fan of Dyche and if we somehow get out of this mess then it'll be his biggest achievement. At the same time, I do think if we go down, a lot of it is down to him.

- We insist on playing two up front when we don't have two worth playing at the same time. I'll always remember him saying he does this because when he was a centre back, he hated playing against two strikers. Great, but that was 20 years ago. If I was one of our midfielders, I'd hate playing against a 3. If I was an opposition defensive midfielder, I'd love playing against us because there's no runners to track etc. We have to progress from 2 up top. I understood when we had Vings, or Vokes and Gray etc, but not now.
- We insist on playing two in midfield when it's our weakest area of the pitch, regardless of wingers 'tucking in' we're still frail there. Too many games this season where opposition managers have probably thought "we'll stay in the game for 60 mins, change it and overload them". I don't need to quote which games, there's been so many but Dyche insists it isn't tactical, it's just down to 'details'

So how do we fix it? McNeil has shown, whether it's tactical or down to his own game, that he wants to play through the middle and run the game from there. Cornet has shown he's best playing high and wide from the left with permission to run beyond the striker, rather than picking up scraps through the middle.

We have to play our best players and try something different from the past 18 months.

Defence isn't the problem imo so ignoring that...

----------- Brownhill --- Cork ---------------
Lennon ------- McNeil ----------- Cornet
------------------- Weghorst -------------------

Lennon being used tactically to dig in when we need or push on when possible. McNeil dropping back if we need or pulling the strings with Cornet pushing on. Playing the ball to Wout's FEET not four foot above him.

Sorry, warned you this was a rant. Just pains me to see the same rubbish time and again. If we did change it, then I fear it's just too late anyway.

[jojomk1]

All that rant for nothing

It's not 4 4 2

[warksclaret]

Dyche is the right man to get us out of the Championship.

Is he ??-just like we failed with Huddersfield who had their second 11 out. Do you trust him to build a new team or do it with this group. Sorry but he has become a one trick pony and I cannot see the contribution the two coaches make. They certainly dont stand up to SD-its evident

[warksclaret]

Yes it was small details
- the wrong starting 11
-no research done on Brentford who have conceded 8 goals from corners. Al 10 of ours were shambolic
-the wrong substitute changes. Westwood should have come off when JR came on
-Cornet is a wide man, always has been. Need to play him there
-No change of tactics

[Milltown1882]

Is he ??-just like we failed with Huddersfield who had their second 11 out. Do you trust him to build a new team or do it with this group. Sorry but he has become a one trick pony and I cannot see the contribution the two coaches make. They certainly dont stand up to SD-its evident

Wait till you see the jobs for the boys new contracts in the summer ready to finish 13th in the Championship.

[NewClaret]

Yes it was small details
- the wrong starting 11
-no research done on Brentford who have conceded 8 goals from corners. Al 10 of ours were shambolic
-the wrong substitute changes. Westwood should have come off when JR came on
-Cornet is a wide man, always has been. Need to play him there
-No change of tactics

All “details” that sit with Dyche. If he said as much I wouldn’t mind. Needs to look at our results and performances very inwardly in my view.

[timel0veandtendayi]

All that rant for nothing

It's not 4 4 2

Viva 442.

[MT03ALG]

If Mee and pieters play yesterday, we don't lose that game, simple as that. But to expand on that as I've said on another thread tarkowski is absolutely not a left sided centre back, he was constantly reverting to he's normal role of right side cb, which time after time resulted in an overload on Taylor, which ultimately ended up with tarkowski marking no one, resulting in toney having acres to nod in. Same happened with the penalty, another situation for Taylor which resulted in Collins being reckless, play for England my a**e tarkowski will never play for England while he's a hole in it. And to expand on all that, all caused by dyche not addressing the left sided cb position, we've needed one for seasons, but for some reason he thinks tarkowski can cover it. I for one will be glad when he's gone, as for dyche we can't afford to get rid. And speaking of dyche, there were signs yesterday that in 6 weeks he's turned a brilliant goalscorer into a misfiring Chris Wood because he wants he's forward line to be defensive in order to cover for the likes of what tarkowski is not doing in the first place, and on top of that, wiped the confidence and potential from the other one we signed in the summer. Consequently we can't score a goal.

And breathe.....

[Colburn_Claret]

The biggest failing is we should be going for it.
I would rather we went for an early goal, then hung on for 70 mins. Instead we seem to hang on for 70 mins, then go for it in the last 20. It's too little, too late, and leaves us open to conceding a late goal, with not enough time left to do anything about it. You can't go for that early goal by playing hoofball, you can resort to that when you have your nose in front. Mind bogglingly stupid tactics.

[claretandbluesky]

We play for a draw hoping to pinch a late victory.

Start out strong, get ahead is the only chance we have.
We don’t come back from being* behind.

[Claretitus]

Pains me to say it, and let’s all be honest here, we are SHITE. No point playing well to beat Brighton then Spurs, then being gutless v Leicester and Brentford,when we are still playing catch-up. Does anyone on here REALLY think that Hoofball, under Dyche,will get us back up to the Premier League, WHEN we go down? Football has changed so much over the last 5 years, we haven’t. Same old formation and tactics, whoever the opposition is. No plan B, C, or could even be argued, no plan A. Just same old. Boring, and leading to the inevitable- relegation.

[randomclaret2]

Wait till you see the jobs for the boys new contracts in the summer ready to finish 13th in the Championship.

I suspect our new owners might just be struggling to get their heads round the concept of giving new contracts to players who have won 3 of the last 30 League games

[taio]

I suspect our new owners might just be struggling to get their heads round the concept of giving new contracts to players who have won 3 of the last 30 League games

I would hope that the new owners don't consider things in such a blanket fashion. Each case should be judged on its own merits. For example, Mee should be offered a new contract whereas Bardsley probably not. We would need balance in that some are offered contract extensions and some aren't. There's no way we should be offering all ten players a contract and equally there's no way we should not be offering an extension to any of them.

[boatshed bill]

"Details" when did we sign him?

[Belial]

Not details, we just simply aren't good enough... and the decline has been evident since last at least last season. If you look at our expected goals per game (xG) most games this season we've not created even one good scoring chance, and in fact some games we are as low as 0.2. That tells it's own story that we've all known for ages, that the 'details' are the lack of creativity in midfield. Whether that's down to tactics or individual players is another question. Brentford's manager was absolutely correct when he said they had the clearer chances; we very rarely ever put one on a plate for our strikers

[ClaretLoup]

Maybe it’s not details though that explains why Burnley can’t score enough goals, maybe it’s trying to shoehorn every player in to a 4-4-2 formation?

[jojomk1]

Pains me to say it, and let’s all be honest here, we are SHITE. No point playing well to beat Brighton then Spurs, then being gutless v Leicester and Brentford,when we are still playing catch-up. Does anyone on here REALLY think that Hoofball, under Dyche,will get us back up to the Premier League, WHEN we go down? Football has changed so much over the last 5 years, we haven’t. Same old formation and tactics, whoever the opposition is. No plan B, C, or could even be argued, no plan A. Just same old. Boring, and leading to the inevitable- relegation.

The difference between Brighton/Spurs and Leicester/Brentford included a small but important "detail"

Westwood started and Cork didn't

Would not be surprised to see Cork start against City just so that Dyche could claim he doesn't make a difference to the side

[SouthLondonexile]

Well to an extent luck was on their side.
However three things came to mind in considering details.
Hoofing high balls up to Cornet in the hope he might beat 4 defenders was a really poor tactic.
We missed Ben Mee big time.
Finally we might have bought Barnes on for Cornet in the last 15 mins to really rattle the opposition.

[tiger76]

The difference between Brighton/Spurs and Leicester/Brentford included a small but important "detail"

Westwood started and Cork didn't

Would not be surprised to see Cork start against City just so that Dyche could claim he doesn't make a difference to the side

Agree on Cork, but that's been done to death on here over the last few days. And let's be honest whoever plays against City's star-studded side is going to make little difference, and like you I do wonder if Cork will be thrown to the wolves just to justify Sean's decision to drop him.

However that wasn't the only "detail" between those games, Ben Mee played in the first 2, and we kept 2 clean sheets, plus he scored the winner against Spurs.

Then he goes off injured in the Leicester game, and since then we've shipped 8 goals in 2 and a half games, whereas prior to Ben's absence we'd conceded only 3 in 7 I think, shows just how important his presence really is to our fortunes.