Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

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Marty Dobson
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Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Marty Dobson » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:30 pm

Only 41% of fans who responded to the recent club survey on Match Tickets are satisfied with the current points system. The make up of the other 59% is not clear even though 20% were in favour of a 5 year rolling system. I am surprised that the 41% figure wasn't lower. Clearly the current system has plenty of genuine and deserving adherents who are satisfied with the status quo, but the substantial number of beneficiaries who engage in widespread abuse contained in the 41% are skewing the findings imo.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by claret wizard » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:36 pm

Majority who don’t benefit from a scheme not in favour of it. Not a great surprise is it. Only 1 game not made it to general sale this year. Far bigger other things to worry about, could be plenty of tickets available next year at away grounds.
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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by rufus lumley » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:37 pm

But what does the man in the street think that's what matters .

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by MACCA » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:45 pm

rufus lumley wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:37 pm
But what does the man in the street think that's what matters .
3 of our party on Saturday don't have a season ticket, but managed to get a ticket for Brentford.

I saw several others in the same boat who just went for "the tick"

It's been done to death over the years, if you want a ticket for a Burnley away game enough you will get one.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Rowls » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:57 pm

All well and good being "dissatisfied" with the current system but has anybody got a better suggestion?

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by lakedistrictclaret » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:04 pm

A rolling system would be fairer.
For example, I've got nearly 10,000 points, but I've only been to six away games in the last four seasons.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:14 pm

Rowls wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:57 pm
All well and good being "dissatisfied" with the current system but has anybody got a better suggestion?
When this topic periodically comes up, the ones who suggest/want changes are usually those who on very infrequent occasions don't manage to get a ticket. There are other genuine reasons for wanting a change, such as to address the issue of parent(s) with the required points but with children without sufficient points (at least in the early priority periods). As said earlier in the thread, sell outs are very unusual over the past few seasons. The problem which the Club have is, whatever changes may be made, for the very popular games someone will unfortunately still miss out. There is no standard points/loyalty system across the whole of the PL, which to me indicates that it's not easy to come up with a new system which will suit/benefit all. Of course this doesn't mean that the Club shouldn't at least review the present system but coming up with a new one will still leave some fans unhappy.
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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Rowls » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:19 pm

There won't ever be a system that suits everybody. There will only ever be a system with pros and cons.
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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:42 pm

The biggest issue I see is that points remain on the system forever, they never drop back down, so someone could not have a season ticket for 5yrs and still have the top number of points, whilst current regulars aren't quite there and miss out.

Is there a better alternative?
Yes, I can come up with one quite easily and I don't even get paid for it
I'm just playing with numbers here, I can't remember what the current points per season ticket reward is -

Cap the loyalty points at 3500 and award as follows -

ST points per year - 350 points
Home cup games - 30 points
Away games tickets - 10 points.

If you decide not to renew your season ticket, you lose an equal amount for every year you don't have one, so if you had 3500, then didn't have a ticket for 10 years, you'd end up back on zero.

Away games points requirement -
3500
2000
1000
General sale.

Photo held on system for adults/over 16's with a Clarets number, then each ground has an electronic system that the stewards can use to ensure the away ticket holder matches the photo on file when ticket is presented, using information sent from the visiting club.
(I have to upload a photo for Glastonbury if I want to buy a ticket, hundreds of thousands of people manage that without complaining before anyone starts)

We all know of people who buy tickets for others, that includes the supporters clubs, so there are supporters at all clubs who've been banned but still go watch their team away, that's been discussed on here before, but this system would ensure that A- those who attend are the ticket purchasers and B- anyone who decided to be a bell end could be traced easier due to CCTV and knowing who's in what seat.

It won't happen, but that system is pretty fair and prevents non-attendees from being able to pick the prime away games even if they've stopped having a season ticket for years.

Using that current system, my points tally would currently be back to less than 500, but that's because I've made the choice to not have a season ticket and I can live with it.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:56 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:42 pm
The biggest issue I see is that points remain on the system forever, they never drop back down, so someone could not have a season ticket for 5yrs and still have the top number of points, whilst current regulars aren't quite there and miss out.

Is there a better alternative?
Yes, I can come up with one quite easily and I don't even get paid for it
I'm just playing with numbers here, I can't remember what the current points per season ticket reward is -

Cap the loyalty points at 3500 and award as follows -

ST points per year - 350 points
Home cup games - 30 points
Away games tickets - 10 points.

If you decide not to renew your season ticket, you lose an equal amount for every year you don't have one, so if you had 3500, then didn't have a ticket for 10 years, you'd end up back on zero.

Away games points requirement -
3500
2000
1000
General sale.

Photo held on system for adults/over 16's with a Clarets number, then each ground has an electronic system that the stewards can use to ensure the away ticket holder matches the photo on file when ticket is presented, using information sent from the visiting club.
(I have to upload a photo for Glastonbury if I want to buy a ticket, hundreds of thousands of people manage that without complaining before anyone starts)

We all know of people who buy tickets for others, that includes the supporters clubs, so there are supporters at all clubs who've been banned but still go watch their team away, that's been discussed on here before, but this system would ensure that A- those who attend are the ticket purchasers and B- anyone who decided to be a bell end could be traced easier due to CCTV and knowing who's in what seat.

It won't happen, but that system is pretty fair and prevents non-attendees from being able to pick the prime away games even if they've stopped having a season ticket for years.

Using that current system, my points tally would currently be back to less than 500, but that's because I've made the choice to not have a season ticket and I can live with it.
Haven't read all your post yet but just need to correct your first example. If someone hasn't got a current season ticket they don't qualify to use their points. They can only purchase under General Sale, when a ST isn't required.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:01 pm

Leisure wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:56 pm
Haven't read all your post yet but just need to correct your first example. If someone hasn't got a current season ticket they don't qualify to use their points. They can only purchase under General Sale, when a ST isn't required.
Their points never go down though, so they could not have a ticket for 5yrs, for example, then decide to buy one again and their points are still there, which is hardly fair.
I wasn't aware that they can't be used if they don't have a current ST

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:12 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:01 pm
Their points never go down though, so they could not have a ticket for 5yrs, for example, then decide to buy one again and their points are still there, which is hardly fair.
Possibly but someone in that position (and let's be serious here, there can't be many if any!) could site that to earn the points which they have they have put money into the Club, as most of those points will have been earned from purchasing season tickets. It's very easy to quote anomalies of the system and there could be many but to make changes to address them all would be impossible without probably creating even more! Any yes, to use your points you have to have a current ST.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by KlyBfc » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:22 pm

I honestly think now is the time to reset it. Not because I’m desperate to get higher up the pecking order but because I think things do need to be fairer for the younger ones. I see it being pretty straightforward.
As has been pointed out no one has struggled to get away tickets this year, so the club could spend some time looking at and awarding points for this year. Then next year set some new thresholds based on this seasons attendees. The fact that nobody will struggle next year either means even any fans who have missed more games than usual this year won’t struggle. So all fans have the opportunity to boost their points tally over the next couple of seasons. As a side I do think home and away cup games should get a decent reward of points too (above the norm).

I come from the angle that though I’m not in the top bracket (I am a second ticket holder) I don’t struggle to get away tickets (though to ensure we sit together other people often get mine and boost someone’s else’s points) in addition to be honest I’d be ok missing out on a game as I only do 3or4 a season normally due to family commitments so see others as more deserving.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:31 pm

KlyBfc wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:22 pm
I honestly think now is the time to reset it. Not because I’m desperate to get higher up the pecking order but because I think things do need to be fairer for the younger ones. I see it being pretty straightforward.
As has been pointed out no one has struggled to get away tickets this year, so the club could spend some time looking at and awarding points for this year. Then next year set some new thresholds based on this seasons attendees.
Interesting. What is 'pretty straightforward'? What is your thinking saying 'the club could spend some time looking at and awarding points for this year'?

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by claret wizard » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:35 pm

10 years since we played a game we could attend at Norwich, 12 years in the League, must win game, tickets on general sale. New loyalty schemes aren’t what we should be worried about.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by KlyBfc » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:52 pm

Leisure wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:31 pm
Interesting. What is 'pretty straightforward'? What is your thinking saying 'the club could spend some time looking at and awarding points for this year'?

They must have a ‘Purchase history’ well I’d have thought they would have. Allocate someone the job to look at it. Of course that requires the time for someone to do it and all depends if they ( the club) want to allocate time for someone to or not. Might need some inputting or copying pasting into an excel spreadsheet or similar and sort from there, then reset the points.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by turbo5 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:53 pm

As said above it has been discussed to death, no system will suit everybody. those who don't get a ticket will hit out at those that do. especially if they acquired the ticket via other means, rather than the points system .
When we first went into the PL, away tickets were at a premium and the big local games Man Utd Liverpool Everton City etc were in demand. Though you would always see non-season ticket holders attending their first game in years. (tickets obtained via resellers/mates not going or your dad or some other relative who doesn't do away games but has 15K points) I started taking my lad he had a season ticket since being 4 year old but not the required points for the main games. For Southampton , Brighton, London games or mid week games tickets weren't a problem these aren't attractive enough due to distance and timings.
So as a season ticket holder my son would attend every game home and away , including the south coast, London etc but when it came to Liverpool or Man Utd away some fans would be crying how did a kid get a ticket ?
My view would be reward loyalty over a short period,1-2 seasons not just season tickets and historic points . If you travel to the South for a couple of games they should be triple the points, London games double and local games normal points For me they should be a points system based on away games attended with higher rewards for mid week or stupid kicks off times, The fans who give up full days to travel to watch their team should be rewarded,
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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by claret wizard » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:11 pm

turbo5 wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:53 pm
The fans who give up full days to travel to watch their team should be rewarded,
Not everyone lives in Burnley, this actually skews it to people who live in London. Next.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:15 pm

KlyBfc wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:52 pm
They must have a ‘Purchase history’ well I’d have thought they would have. Allocate someone the job to look at it. Of course that requires the time for someone to do it and all depends if they ( the club) want to allocate time for someone to or not. Might need some inputting or copying pasting into an excel spreadsheet or similar and sort from there, then reset the points.
Sorry but don't understand just what you are suggesting? What do you actually want the Club to look at/do? How do you suggest that points are re-set? Using what criteria?

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by dougcollins » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:17 pm

It's a tough one. I went to every single away game in the Coyle promotion season, but couldn't get a ticket for the Reading away play off leg because I was unable to get to Burnley on the day the tickets were sold. I know a fair number on that Reading game who hadn't been to a home game that season, never mind away.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by KlyBfc » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:47 pm

Leisure wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:15 pm
Sorry but don't understand just what you are suggesting? What do you actually want the Club to look at/do? How do you suggest that points are re-set? Using what criteria?
Reset all to zero. Work out who bought away tickets and season tickets this season. Then allocate new points to them and they become the new priority, instead of the long-standing ones. Won’t matter anyway we are going down so tickets will be plentiful.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by Leisure » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:51 pm

KlyBfc wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:47 pm
Reset all to zero. Work out who bought away tickets and season tickets this season. Then allocate new points to them and they become the new priority, instead of the long-standing ones. Won’t matter anyway we are going down so tickets will be plentiful.
I'm sure that will go down well with long standing season ticket holders/regular away traveling fans! :lol:

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:02 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:17 pm
It's a tough one. I went to every single away game in the Coyle promotion season, but couldn't get a ticket for the Reading away play off leg because I was unable to get to Burnley on the day the tickets were sold. I know a fair number on that Reading game who hadn't been to a home game that season, never mind away.
I bought tickets for that game over the phone.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by KlyBfc » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:05 pm

Leisure wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:51 pm
I'm sure that will go down well with long standing season ticket holders/regular away traveling fans! :lol:
I’m a long standing season ticket holder (I wouldn’t care) though realistically I’m no more than a 4 game a season away follower. But the way I suggest would mean anyone who’s been regular away this season would be rewarded. Would only matter if people had missed a season. However even then it’s all irrelevant as nobody will struggle to get championship away tickets next year.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by OrientMascot » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:26 pm

MACCA wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:45 pm
3 of our party on Saturday don't have a season ticket, but managed to get a ticket for Brentford.

I saw several others in the same boat who just went for "the tick"

It's been done to death over the years, if you want a ticket for a Burnley away game enough you will get one.
This is bang on.
This season more than ever in the premier league tickets are readily available.
Have a go at the website and other commercial aspects, but designing a ticketing system that suits everyone is impossible.

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Re: Minority in favour of Loyalty points ticketing system.

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:38 pm

Marty Dobson wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:30 pm
Only 41% of fans who responded to the recent club survey on Match Tickets are satisfied with the current points system. The make up of the other 59% is not clear even though 20% were in favour of a 5 year rolling system. I am surprised that the 41% figure wasn't lower. Clearly the current system has plenty of genuine and deserving adherents who are satisfied with the status quo, but the substantial number of beneficiaries who engage in widespread abuse contained in the 41% are skewing the findings imo.
I imagine there was probably a higher response rate from those who had plenty of loyalty points.

I think we're one of the few (in the Premier League at least) with loyalty points that never expire. It seems the obvious tweak. It shouldn't have too much impact initially on those with lots of loyalty points as it would be a gradual thing (and for many who are still going the points will just keep up).

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