canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
spt_claret
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 728 times
Has Liked: 456 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by spt_claret » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:19 pm

BLH_Claret wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:02 pm
Carlos Corberan. Next question.
Thank you for offering someone. Only chance of him is if Huddersfield don't go up, which in turn means his pedigree is worse than Dyches so not convinced he's the man but not a bad shout as refreshes go.

warksclaret
Posts: 6594
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 1676 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by warksclaret » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:24 pm

The reality is now out. For half a dozen years the media have been waxing lyrical about Burnley's never say die attitude, working for each other, been very well organised, everyone knowing what their jobs are, hard to beat, you know what to expect at Turf Moor. But I heard it several times from Alan Smith today, and been hearing it a lot during the last half a dozen games from pundits on Radio and TV,about "our lack of quality". Has anyone else noticed that this is now being accepted. With that in mind are we not expecting too much from our beloved team

Sproggy
Posts: 1452
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:41 pm
Been Liked: 662 times
Has Liked: 141 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Sproggy » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:29 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:56 pm


And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
People think wannabe witty quips are a substitute for putting an argument forward.
Everyone's happy to criticise Dyche when we're woeful- which we have been many times this season- but not many actually make a serious suggestion for a replacement.
We're a club in crisis, we're facing a huge undertaking this summer even if by a miracle we stop up. A change of manager doesn't historically do well at crisis clubs, and Dyche has a perfect promotion record for full championship season with us. It's a must to bounce back if financial claims are true,and I'm not sure who there is available who isnt a bigger risk bet. Maybe some people here are. But most just want to snipe.
I'm entitled to snipe. I've just watched another display of gutless hoofball that looks very much like it will relegate us this season. Norwich two clean sheets against us. Watford first clean sheet for 6 managers against us. Newcastle pre takeover only managed two clean sheets, both against us. 4 wins all season. The football is terrible, results are terrible, the team is well past it's sell by date. The tactics are woeful but never change. Existing on 30% possession a game. Opposition goalkeepers make more successful passes in a game than any of our midfielders. One away win all season.
The club needs an enema.
These 2 users liked this post: tiger76 BLH_Claret

Sproggy
Posts: 1452
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:41 pm
Been Liked: 662 times
Has Liked: 141 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Sproggy » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:29 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:56 pm


And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
People think wannabe witty quips are a substitute for putting an argument forward.
Everyone's happy to criticise Dyche when we're woeful- which we have been many times this season- but not many actually make a serious suggestion for a replacement.
We're a club in crisis, we're facing a huge undertaking this summer even if by a miracle we stop up. A change of manager doesn't historically do well at crisis clubs, and Dyche has a perfect promotion record for full championship season with us. It's a must to bounce back if financial claims are true,and I'm not sure who there is available who isnt a bigger risk bet. Maybe some people here are. But most just want to snipe.
I'm entitled to snipe. I've just watched another display of gutless hoofball that looks very much like it will relegate us this season. Norwich two clean sheets against us. Watford first clean sheet for 6 managers against us. Newcastle pre takeover only managed two clean sheets, both against us. 4 wins all season. The football is terrible, results are terrible, the team is well past it's sell by date. The tactics are woeful but never change. Existing on 30% possession a game. Opposition goalkeepers make more successful passes in a game than any of our midfielders. One away win all season.
The club needs an enema.

Sproggy
Posts: 1452
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:41 pm
Been Liked: 662 times
Has Liked: 141 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Sproggy » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:31 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:56 pm


And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
People think wannabe witty quips are a substitute for putting an argument forward.
Everyone's happy to criticise Dyche when we're woeful- which we have been many times this season- but not many actually make a serious suggestion for a replacement.
We're a club in crisis, we're facing a huge undertaking this summer even if by a miracle we stop up. A change of manager doesn't historically do well at crisis clubs, and Dyche has a perfect promotion record for full championship season with us. It's a must to bounce back if financial claims are true,and I'm not sure who there is available who isnt a bigger risk bet. Maybe some people here are. But most just want to snipe.
I'm entitled to snipe. I've just watched another display of gutless hoofball that looks very much like it will relegate us this season. Norwich two clean sheets against us. Watford first clean sheet for 6 managers against us. Newcastle pre takeover only managed two clean sheets, both against us. 4 wins all season. The football is terrible, results are terrible, the team is well past it's sell by date. The tactics are woeful but never change. Existing on 30% possession a game. Opposition goalkeepers make more successful passes in a game than any of our midfielders. One away win all season.
The club needs an enema.

tarkys_ears
Posts: 4237
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:30 pm
Been Liked: 1016 times
Has Liked: 1484 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by tarkys_ears » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:41 pm

We played no worse than on Tuesday, we just got lucky that everton were dogshit.

If we'd have given another team that many chances it'd have been 0-5.

Nothing has changed all season barring a game or two. Performances have all been the same pretty much.

Helmshore Claret
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:16 am
Been Liked: 32 times
Has Liked: 78 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Helmshore Claret » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:00 pm

How on earth on one of our best players ( McNeil) could be on the bench today was staggering.

Jamesy
Posts: 2533
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm
Been Liked: 780 times
Has Liked: 518 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Jamesy » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:44 pm

Conroy92 wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:02 pm
Can you give me a reason as to why Dyche should stay? It sounds like your basically saying let's put up with shite for fear of attracting shite?
I will give you one good reason why he will stay. We cannot afford to pay him off if we sack him.

Boss Hogg
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:34 am
Been Liked: 846 times
Has Liked: 1090 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Boss Hogg » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:46 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:44 pm
I will give you one good reason why he will stay. We cannot afford to pay him off if we sack him.
Can we afford to stay in the Championship if we don’t get promoted and when the parachute money runs out ?

RVclaret
Posts: 13836
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 3707 times
Has Liked: 2499 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by RVclaret » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:49 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:44 pm
I will give you one good reason why he will stay. We cannot afford to pay him off if we sack him.
Hopefully there’s some sort of relegation clause in the contract

willsclarets
Posts: 1927
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:06 am
Been Liked: 680 times
Has Liked: 133 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by willsclarets » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:55 pm

A couple of midfielders and a striker short of survival this year I think. Dyche may not have been as flexible or inventive as we might like, but if you don't recruit well over 3 or 4 years you're going to get worse. At the end of the day, this isn't a premier league squad.
These 2 users liked this post: DCWat Pearcey

Pearcey
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:59 pm
Been Liked: 1140 times
Has Liked: 1439 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Pearcey » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:42 pm

Jimmymaccer wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:53 pm
You at the match P?………

And still time to post such is the action😀
I stayed until the end but I’d had enough when I posted. Was good to be back amongst the fans though. There was some applause at the end but the feeling I got was that most seemed to think we’re just not good enough. At least I only had a 15 minute drive home.
This user liked this post: Jimmymaccer

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:54 am

willsclarets wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:55 pm
A couple of midfielders and a striker short of survival this year I think. Dyche may not have been as flexible or inventive as we might like, but if you don't recruit well over 3 or 4 years you're going to get worse. At the end of the day, this isn't a premier league squad.
Yes but when your squad is as poor as ours your have to prioritise recruitment in certain positions.

We wasted so much money this season on positions that were just not needed. Fundamentally Collins, Roberts and Weghorsts have been wasted funds this season. None of them are improvement on what we have or had in them positions. Then CM and RM have not been improved for 3-4 seasons.

Say what you want about Dyche but he is criminally at fault for not addressing key areas even with the limited funds we had available. From the team that finished 10th two years ago the only player we have signed that improves us is Cornet

bfcjg
Posts: 13153
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6716 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by bfcjg » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:40 pm

Just thought I'd bring this back, less than 10 months ago, what a transformation we have seen.😁😁😁😁

gandhisflipflop
Posts: 5500
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm
Been Liked: 2317 times
Has Liked: 1399 times
Location: Costa del Padihamos beach.

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:45 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:56 pm


And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
People think wannabe witty quips are a substitute for putting an argument forward.
Everyone's happy to criticise Dyche when we're woeful- which we have been many times this season- but not many actually make a serious suggestion for a replacement.
We're a club in crisis, we're facing a huge undertaking this summer even if by a miracle we stop up. A change of manager doesn't historically do well at crisis clubs, and Dyche has a perfect promotion record for full championship season with us. It's a must to bounce back if financial claims are true,and I'm not sure who there is available who isnt a bigger risk bet. Maybe some people here are. But most just want to snipe.
If ever a post backs up my belief that it isn’t up to the fans to ‘suggest replacements’ it’s up to the board to produce a replacement, then this is it.
This user liked this post: bfcjg

bfcjg
Posts: 13153
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6716 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by bfcjg » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:52 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:46 pm
Can we afford to stay in the Championship if we don’t get promoted and when the parachute money runs out ?
Not likely :D

IanMcL
Posts: 30123
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8651 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by IanMcL » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:00 am

Fair chunk of money spent, however, whole squad dismantled for much more. So overall, minus mega millions.

spt_claret
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 728 times
Has Liked: 456 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by spt_claret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:01 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:45 pm
If ever a post backs up my belief that it isn’t up to the fans to ‘suggest replacements’ it’s up to the board to produce a replacement, then this is it.
I'm overwhelmingly pleased with how well we've done, never expected it and delighted to have had my expectations massively exceeded.
Doesn't invalidate that at the time by most measures it seemed like a colossal gamble. It's paid off spectacularly but was still a gamble, and most gambles don't pay off this well. That's why Kompany's success has been so remarkable, because it's unlikely and unusual.

Quicknick
Posts: 5580
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1208 times
Has Liked: 7098 times
Location: Chiang Rai, Thailand.

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Quicknick » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:21 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:01 pm
I'm overwhelmingly pleased with how well we've done, never expected it and delighted to have had my expectations massively exceeded.
Doesn't invalidate that at the time by most measures it seemed like a colossal gamble. It's paid off spectacularly but was still a gamble, and most gambles don't pay off this well. That's why Kompany's success has been so remarkable, because it's unlikely and unusual.
I don't think it was that much of a gamble. Kompany had been managing in Belgium. Now Waddle was a real gamble.

spt_claret
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 728 times
Has Liked: 456 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by spt_claret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:46 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:21 pm
I don't think it was that much of a gamble. Kompany had been managing in Belgium. Now Waddle was a real gamble.
He had managed for two years in Belgium and was rebuilding historically the biggest club in Belgium which had lost its way, but while getting them reliably back to top 4 was also not pulling up trees. He had experience but his experience wouldn't have suggested that he'd be able to come into a fiercely competitive league like the Championship (which it is for all the arrogance about the standards), oversee such an enormous squad turnover, and instantly deliver a dominant, stylish, rampant team. I figured the 3rd year target for promotion said at the start of the season was the likeliest, but worried this was too slow given the financial concerns and that as this went on or if we lost top players that rebound would become less likely. I felt we needed to bounce back immediately and still do - clubs that stay down can often get stuck down, which was why it struck me as a huge risk, not necessarily just the choice but the timeframe.
Again he's blown me away with how well he's done. Couldn't be happier.
This user liked this post: Quicknick

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:25 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:01 pm
I'm overwhelmingly pleased with how well we've done, never expected it and delighted to have had my expectations massively exceeded.
Doesn't invalidate that at the time by most measures it seemed like a colossal gamble. It's paid off spectacularly but was still a gamble, and most gambles don't pay off this well. That's why Kompany's success has been so remarkable, because it's unlikely and unusual.
A gamble is doing something you don't have to do.
We had to have a clear out, and refresh the squad. You can say we are lucky that it has paid off so well, but it was never a gamble.

spt_claret
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 728 times
Has Liked: 456 times

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by spt_claret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:57 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:25 pm
A gamble is doing something you don't have to do.
We had to have a clear out, and refresh the squad. You can say we are lucky that it has paid off so well, but it was never a gamble.
The gamble wasn't the clearout, although there's some I'd have retained who we didn't - Mee especially - and at the time I'd have moved on Barnes although I'm glad he's had a mini renaissance (even if I don't fancy him to score in any more games except Blackburn again and maybe Preston).
The gamble was the potting of an experienced manager with two automatic promotions in his two full seasons at that level with us, and then appointing a manager who only had two years experience and not of a promotion dogfight- at the time I was thinking Carlos Corberan had the best pedigree of anyone we were being linked with, or possibly the Danish (?) fella. And again it was risk in the context of "Regardless of the noise around a 3 year plan, I think we more likely need an instant rebound". Which I stand by as important, and stand by the view that anyone who honestly expected instantly running away with the league like we have, unless they had a crystal ball, had massively inflated expectations. I wouldn't have expected this even under my personal lowest risk scenario/best expectations.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: canary versus MIGHTY CLARETS

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:06 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:57 pm
The gamble wasn't the clearout, although there's some I'd have retained who we didn't - Mee especially - and at the time I'd have moved on Barnes although I'm glad he's had a mini renaissance (even if I don't fancy him to score in any more games except Blackburn again and maybe Preston).
The gamble was the potting of an experienced manager with two automatic promotions in his two full seasons at that level with us, and then appointing a manager who only had two years experience and not of a promotion dogfight- at the time I was thinking Carlos Corberan had the best pedigree of anyone we were being linked with, or possibly the Danish (?) fella. And again it was risk in the context of "Regardless of the noise around a 3 year plan, I think we more likely need an instant rebound". Which I stand by as important, and stand by the view that anyone who honestly expected instantly running away with the league like we have, unless they had a crystal ball, had massively inflated expectations. I wouldn't have expected this even under my personal lowest risk scenario/best expectations.
No
Losing Ben wasn't a gamble, because we had no option, he wanted to go.
Losing SD wasn't a gamble, I love what he's done for us, but it was obvious he couldn't, or wouldn't change things.
As for who took over the mantle, only the board were in the interview room. Let's give them credit that they know what they are doing.
Of course no one could predict how well its turned out, but it doesn't change the fact that all the changes were had to be's, not a gamble at all.

Post Reply