Name the next manager

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Andreshotboots
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Andreshotboots » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:56 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 am
Rooney - a relegated manager, who has not pulled up any trees at all. Not even good on TV! No thanks.
Nick Pope, a relegated goalkeeper who didn’t pull up any trees at Charlton… 😜

Belial
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Belial » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:57 pm

Marney&Mee wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:25 pm
Rooney and Unsworth...you heard it here first.

I've heard that's the rumour. I should know, cos I started it...
Or Rooney and his mate Bardsley...

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by eastcoastclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:57 pm

Someone has just placed bet on Vincent Kompany, now favourite

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:30 pm

I really hope it isnt Rooney, we need someone with contacts in the european market who has more than one years experience managing. Could be Chris Waddle mark 2.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:34 pm

NRC wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:32 pm
Applying the model that is at Ajax and now Werder Bremen is nothing to do with scale, it’s a business operating model.



Regardless, AiSCOUT is one of the reasons AP wanted to acquire a club. It’s inconceivable in business terms that you don’t take that into consideration alongside your academy status now that you have the perfect opportunity to put into practice your business reasoning
It is a business model, but it's not cheap. And the big clubs are investing heavily in academies

Ajax is one of the biggest clubs in Europe and based in its countries biggest city.

If you don't own the product and have no access to the profits you gain no more from Ai Scout than anyone who else can purchase a copy of the software.

We had the perfect model and have just thrown it away, which is what is so irritating.

There are only a few managers out there qualified to do what needs to be done at the club because there are only a handful of managers who have that experience.

One is currently failing at Watford. Another was sacked by Burnley prior to Dyche and others, like Sam Allardyce, won't be tolerated by the fans. Just as he wasn't tolerated by Everton fans before things got much worse.

Our best hope is that a young manager with little experience who had a good year at a big club when he was financially constrained and couldn't do anything will help to relegate Everton.

And talking of young managers who has had a good year at a big club when financially constrained with little ability to do anything before seeing them relegated: back to Rooney...!

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Cleveleys_claret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:34 pm

NRC wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:47 am

Burnley could be some the English equivalent of Ajax in Holland andWerder Bremen in Germany, and you need the manager that suits that business approach
The whole of the Dutch league is set up for Ajax's success. Teams in their top division have training facilities no better than the likes of Morecambe's. So when they have young players they believe could make it, they sell them to Ajax for 1 euro. Then if they make it big they get a 5% (I think thats what it is) finders fee. Most cant afford the investment in youth so they do this.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by eastcoastclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:36 pm

Vincent Kompany becoming favourite is interesting. Think he was 16/1 last time I looked. Can't see any recent media links which would make price move quickly.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:39 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 am
Rooney - a relegated manager, who has not pulled up any trees at all. Not even good on TV! No thanks.
Is that the same Rooney who has not been able to bring in players, lost some in January he couldn't replace and who has conducted himself admirably?
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:41 pm

eastcoastclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:36 pm
Vincent Kompany becoming favourite is interesting. Think he was 16/1 last time I looked. Can't see any recent media links which would make price move quickly.
He came back into the betting picture yesterday and his odds have shortened. Not sure how good/not so good he's been in Belgium.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:58 pm

Rooney has the makings of a good manager, but I don't think this is the right time to come to Burnley, he needs more experience, and we can't afford to be an experiment.
Kompany, Knutsen have more appeal. Kompany would also have contacts to make decent loan signings, and probably not have SDs reluctance to play them.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretAL » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:03 pm

I think Rooney will be off to Everton if they go down.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:09 pm

Still think the division we are going to be in will have a huge input in who we go for

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Blakesboots » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:11 pm

Rooney, Kompany and two English managers on the shortlist.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:13 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:39 pm
Is that the same Rooney who has not been able to bring in players, lost some in January he couldn't replace and who has conducted himself admirably?
Quite astonishing they'd have stayed up with the huge points deduction with that squad, an absolutely awful side on paper, academy team with a bunch of old past it freebies and as you say, handled himself admirably given he could quite easily have publicly lost his rag with it.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:15 pm

eastcoastclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:36 pm
Vincent Kompany becoming favourite is interesting. Think he was 16/1 last time I looked. Can't see any recent media links which would make price move quickly.
All came from a random chap on Twitter who was asking for odds on Kompany and this is why.... :lol:
Attachments
kompany4.png
kompany4.png (288.82 KiB) Viewed 3015 times

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by IanMcL » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:19 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:39 pm
Is that the same Rooney who has not been able to bring in players, lost some in January he couldn't replace and who has conducted himself admirably?
Yes that's the one. No indication of success, just loyal.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by dsr » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:20 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:34 pm
There are only a few managers out there qualified to do what needs to be done at the club because there are only a handful of managers who have that experience.

One is currently failing at Watford. Another was sacked by Burnley prior to Dyche and others, like Sam Allardyce, won't be tolerated by the fans. Just as he wasn't tolerated by Everton fans before things got much worse.
Brian Laws?

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:24 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:19 pm
Yes that's the one. No indication of success, just loyal.
He kept them up last season and would've kept them up this season without the huge point deduction, without being able to sign players, a truly awful tiny squad of players, he's had to develop academy players and throw them in. He's done a brilliant job, not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by IanMcL » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:24 pm

Date of birth/Age: Apr 10, 1986 (36)
Citizenship: Belgium Belgium
Appointed: Aug 17, 2020
Contract until: Jun 30, 2024
Avg. term as coach : 1.70 Years
Preferred formation : 4-4-2

If we go for youth and contacts with profile, then Kompany, rather than Rooney, would be my preference.

Anderlecht finished 3rd and go into some sort of championship play off league.
Last edited by IanMcL on Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:25 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:24 pm
He kept them up last season and would've kept them up this season without the huge point deduction, without being able to sign players, a truly awful tiny squad of players, he's had to develop academy players and throw them in. He's done a brilliant job, not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.
Totally agree but some don't look into the background of what he's had to deal with
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:27 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:19 pm
Yes that's the one. No indication of success, just loyal.
Bit hard to measure success for a club who had a massive points deduction and weren’t able to sign any players.

Be happy with either Rooney or Kompany. Every managerial appointment is a gamble.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:28 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:34 pm


There are only a few managers out there qualified to do what needs to be done at the club because there are only a handful of managers who have that experience.

One is currently failing at Watford. Another was sacked by Burnley prior to Dyche and others, like Sam Allardyce, won't be tolerated by the fans. Just as he wasn't tolerated by Everton fans before things got much worse.

What exactly needs to be done at the club?

You say there's only a handful of qualified managers, qualified for what exactly? winning football matches? Hodgson and Allardyce have all the experience/nous in the world and both will have relegation as their previous job. Vieira has 1/10th the experience of them both, he isn't getting relegated.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:34 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:11 pm
Rooney, Kompany and two English managers on the shortlist.
I see, so what nationalities are Rooney and Kompany?

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by dibraidio » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:43 pm

Our the new owners stupid enough to install an Everton fan as manager before the end of the season?

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by RVclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:45 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:43 pm
Our the new owners stupid enough to install an Everton fan as manager before the end of the season?
Definitely won’t be before the end of the season, almost certain to be Jackson isn’t it?

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:50 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:20 pm
Brian Laws?
I was thinking of Eddie Howe tbh. He has experience of managing a smaller club in the Premiership.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by RVclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:14 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:50 pm
I was thinking of Eddie Howe tbh. He has experience of managing a smaller club in the Premiership.
So just so I understand, what you are saying is there’s only a handful of managers, you can count on one hand in fact, that can manage Burnley and do a good job?

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:18 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:14 pm
So just so I understand, what you are saying is there’s only a handful of managers, you can count on one hand in fact, that can manage Burnley and do a good job?
Most people on here lack basic football knowledge from abroad, they just watch Burnley and Burnley only. I was shocked how many didn't know who Joao Felix was previously, one of the most expensive players ever.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:23 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:14 pm
So just so I understand, what you are saying is there’s only a handful of managers, you can count on one hand in fact, that can manage Burnley and do a good job?
Let's face it plenty of our fans thought nobody else but Dyche was capable of managing us.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:28 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:28 pm
What exactly needs to be done at the club?

You say there's only a handful of qualified managers, qualified for what exactly? winning football matches? Hodgson and Allardyce have all the experience/nous in the world and both will have relegation as their previous job. Vieira has 1/10th the experience of them both, he isn't getting relegated.
I know but we are back into the game of mentioning one person who hasn't completed a season in the Premiership. Palace have spent a good deal - let's see what happens next season.

What you need is what RV describes above, which is an approach of having a strong footballing philosophy implemented from top to bottom. Players are groomed at every level to fit into the squad and the footballing style. The talent and recruitment team know who to look for and at what price and relegation is baked in such that the club is in a good financial position to return and the squad is effective at what they do to the extent they are competitive in both leagues.

Of course, we can't play tiki takka but something along the lines of Simeoni at Madrid, or of course, Dyche at Burnley.

I suspect ALK/VSL had something similar in mind when they bought the club but I really don't see any evidence they have understood the competitiveness of the league or the financial implications of their purchase. And yes I know they are investment bankers but that is not the same as running a business.

So that would be on my persons spec':

A demonstrable strong philosophical approach to playing approaches
Evidence of working with youth and second tier teams to develop an integrated holistic club approach
Evidence of working with recruitment managers and DoF to embed a whole club philosophy
Evidence of working in the Premier League and successfully transitioning to the Championship and back again (Desirable).
Evidence of building or contributing towards a youth academy approach including footballing apprenticeships and continuous professional development
Evidence of the effective use of sports data and cognitive psychology
Strong leader
Good communicator and ambassador for the club.

Whoever ticks the most boxes gets the job.

The model then becomes bigger than the individual manager. Not unlike Ajax but you can't just say buy young and cheap and sell at a profit - it has to be embedded in a whole club ethos, which is appropriate for a club that cannot compete financially as opposed to a total football approach.

I can no longer see where the investment will come from to do that but that's just my view and you asked so I have given it.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:34 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:28 pm


Of course, we can't play tiki takka but something along the lines of Simeoni at Madrid, or of course, Dyche at Burnley.
I should think Pace wants a brand of football that puts bums on seats, given he has just potted Dyche i would sugest he does not want a continuation of that style. If we keep going (and getting great results) with this new brand of exciting football you would hope Jackson and co (i like the idea of Ben Mee included in the other two) have a good chance of getting it full time.

I would not want anything remotely like the style under Dyche again, simply awful to watch, i would take a year in the championship with Jackson and co over that any day.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by dsr » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:49 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:50 pm
I was thinking of Eddie Howe tbh. He has experience of managing a smaller club in the Premiership.
A smaller club with money. In their last 2 PL seasons, they spent £100m more than they took in, and still got relegated.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Silkyskills1 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:49 pm

I suspect someone with a much higher profile than MJ gets the job. He is doing well at the moment, galvanising the players into a 'unit' again and getting the full backing of supporters. But he is just an interim manager, nothing more nothing less. I'm looking for an appointment to move us on in terms of style of play and player recruitment. Easier said than done, of course but MJ, for me, is a non-starter.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:02 pm

Finding a good manager is easier than finding a good manager 'that fits'.
Unai Emery didn't fit Arsenal, the number of good managers that haven't 'fit' Old Trafford is a long list.
Sean turned out to be, not only a good manager, but he 'fit' Burnley like a glove. It's so important that whoever we get, he fits in to what Burnley football club is, and the town is.
I think Rooney would fit, with his upbringing, but lacks the experience. It's why I wouldn't write Cavahal off. Just because he failed at other clubs, doesn't make him a bad manager, his time at Braga shows that, but again the question should be would he fit. I don't know.
It's one of the strengths of Kilby, Flood, Garlick that they could spot a manager who fit the Burnley ethos. A big test for Alan Pace.
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:29 pm

I don't want us to opt for experience for the sake of it, couldn't think of anything worse than Pardew, Allardyce type crap
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Bosscat » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:31 pm

Looks like Tony Mowbray might be looking for a job soon 🙄

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Nonayforever » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:36 pm

I would choose a manager that is hungry for success before choosing one with experience. I think you will get a lot more milage from someone with a burning desire to achieve something. Experience can lead to caution.
I don't know what makes Rooney tick, but it obviously isn't money as he is already wealthy. So he must be hungry for success.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ksrclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:41 pm

Mark Warbuton expects to leave QPR this summer too.

Not saying I want him here, but if we go down I could see us at least sounding him out.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Claretitus » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:53 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:31 pm
Looks like Tony Mowbray might be looking for a job soon 🙄
Oh eck!! :o

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Claretitus » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:56 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:41 pm
Mark Warbuton expects to leave QPR this summer too.

Not saying I want him here, but if we go down I could see us at least sounding him out.
A few years ago when Warburton was at Brentford? was it? when his stock was higher, I would have said yes. He didn’t do much at Rangers ( Scotland ), not QPR, or Forest. So a NO from me.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Belgianclaret » Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:34 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:41 pm
He came back into the betting picture yesterday and his odds have shortened. Not sure how good/not so good he's been in Belgium.
Still far too inexperienced and error prone if you ask me. Not pulling up any major trees in Belgium

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:51 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:34 pm
Still far too inexperienced and error prone if you ask me. Not pulling up any major trees in Belgium
I’d not checked it out but heard suggestions he hadn’t done much in Belgium.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:01 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:34 pm
Still far too inexperienced and error prone if you ask me. Not pulling up any major trees in Belgium
Vieira didn’t do much before palace

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:03 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:01 pm
Vieira didn’t do much before palace
He didn’t and I didn’t think at the time that he was a good appointment for Palace

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by TsarBomba » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:05 pm

Gp8419 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:54 am
I wasn’t convinced by Rooney at first but I’m kind of growing to the idea he has done rather well all things considered.Commercially it makes sense too raising the profile of the club, he would attract more players interested in actually wanting to play for us, and also he would probably put a extra 2k on the gates maybe.I think as a whole package it makes sense and why not.
Was going to post something similar. Couldn’t agree more.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:31 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:03 pm
He didn’t and I didn’t think at the time that he was a good appointment for Palace
Likewise Tony.

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Re: Name the next manager

Post by IanMcL » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:27 pm
Bit hard to measure success for a club who had a massive points deduction and weren’t able to sign any players.

Be happy with either Rooney or Kompany. Every managerial appointment is a gamble.
That's it though SHP.
'Hard to measure success'
We are Premier League! We are in a position to decide properly, not take a chance.

claretspice
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by claretspice » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm

I've got two concerns about Rooney.

The first is the same one as applies to Duff - but on steroids. His experience, though on paper impressive, is limited. He's worked with one group of players and by necessity, he's completely unproven in the transfer market, as a trader or as a team builder. And whilst he's undoubtedly got a reaction out of that group, he couldn't really lose - even if Derby finished bottom he would quite rightly have had the excuse that their predicament made that the likely outcome. Managing when it's all upside, and you can get a group to prove something to the world, is very different to the pressure cooker of trying to either win promotion or keep a team up.

The second is about his off-field professionalism. He's got a long list of off-field misdemeanours, often involving late nights. The last was as recently as last summer. So much of our success is about the values that Dyche has instilled - discipline, respect, self-control. I'm far from convinced that Rooney is a custodian of them.

I do wonder if he's someone that attracts the owners not because of his abilities as a coach, but because he's a name who might help attract other investment.
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Zlatan
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by Zlatan » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:59 pm

Claretspice sums it up much better than I could, cheers

DCWat
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Re: Name the next manager

Post by DCWat » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:01 pm

claretspice wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm
I've got two concerns about Rooney.

The first is the same one as applies to Duff - but on steroids. His experience, though on paper impressive, is limited. He's worked with one group of players and by necessity, he's completely unproven in the transfer market, as a trader or as a team builder. And whilst he's undoubtedly got a reaction out of that group, he couldn't really lose - even if Derby finished bottom he would quite rightly have had the excuse that their predicament made that the likely outcome. Managing when it's all upside, and you can get a group to prove something to the world, is very different to the pressure cooker of trying to either win promotion or keep a team up.

The second is about his off-field professionalism. He's got a long list of off-field misdemeanours, often involving late nights. The last was as recently as last summer. So much of our success is about the values that Dyche has instilled - discipline, respect, self-control. I'm far from convinced that Rooney is a custodian of them.

I do wonder if he's someone that attracts the owners not because of his abilities as a coach, but because he's a name who might help attract other investment.
The last paragraph nails it for me - I think that’s exactly why they’d opt for someone like Rooney.

I get, and to an extent support their need for a someone with a profile and what that may bring with it. The problem is that we probably need someone with a profile and with some evidence that they’ll be a capable manager. Finding someone that ticks both of those boxes, for a club like ours, is improbable to say the least.

It’s an intriguing quandary (if this is the case). Safer hands and less chance of investment or greater risk of relegation / no promotion and higher chance of investment. Over simplified of course but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is what they’re thinking.

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