If it’s profile we want then Waddle is available.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:01 pm

The last paragraph nails it for me - I think that’s exactly why they’d opt for someone like Rooney.

I get, and to an extent support their need for a someone with a profile and what that may bring with it. The problem is that we probably need someone with a profile and with some evidence that they’ll be a capable manager. Finding someone that ticks both of those boxes, for a club like ours, is improbable to say the least.

It’s an intriguing quandary (if this is the case). Safer hands and less chance of investment or greater risk of relegation / no promotion and higher chance of investment. Over simplified of course but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is what they’re thinking.

To be fair, you were desperate to watch more Dyche failing football out of sentiment, it's just a difference in opinion imo. Some would rather opt for Dyche, Pulis, Allardyce, Pardew, Bruce others would rather we take a chance on largely unproven younger managers like Kompany, Rooney, Knutsen.

As you say it's intriguing, I just pray we don't fall into the trap of employing the same been around the block 100 times types. The fans who wanted Dyche in would obviously prefer we go down that route of crap brexit football.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:13 pm

If it’s profile we want then Waddle is available.

You've gone too far. How do I get you banned?

Too early for Rooney I think. Been impressed with what he's done at Derby so far but it's a no lose situation there for him.

That said the two names that have interested me from all those in the mix so far are Kompany - not exactly massively experienced either - and Knutsen, who is getting a lot of plaudits but the Norwegian league is a bit of a different level to ours.

I think they're interesting because I'd like us to try something a bit different and take a bit of a chance, rather than plump for someone from the English leagues' merry go round. That said, I've been chuffed with how we've played the last two games, if whoever it is can keep that going, I'll be happy.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:21 pm

You've gone too far. How do I get you banned?

Force me into calling you a ******* ***** I think.

Seriously though, I was talking to my mate in Sunderland when they appointed Grayson and asked me what I thought. I just told him we were all excited in 1997 when we appointed Chris Waddle and we were all underwhelmed in 2012 when we appointed Sean Dyche.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:27 pm

Force me into calling you a ******* ***** I think.

Seriously though, I was talking to my mate in Sunderland when they appointed Grayson and asked me what I thought. I just told him we were all excited in 1997 when we appointed Chris Waddle and we were all underwhelmed in 2012 when we appointed Sean Dyche.

That's a good point - I admit to thinking the same.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:20 pm

To be fair, you were desperate to watch more Dyche failing football out of sentiment, it's just a difference in opinion imo. Some would rather opt for Dyche, Pulis, Allardyce, Pardew, Bruce others would rather we take a chance on largely unproven younger managers like Kompany, Rooney, Knutsen.

As you say it's intriguing, I just pray we don't fall into the trap of employing the same been around the block 100 times types. The fans who wanted Dyche in would obviously prefer we go down that route of crap brexit football.

I certainly wasn’t desperate to watch more of the same football - I’ve not been a fan of how we’ve played for a while. At the same time though, I was willing, after all he’d done for us, to give him the opportunity to rebuild.

I was gutted to see Dyche go, but if the results following his departure do keep us up, I’ll have to admit that it was probably the correct decision. The way we’ve played so far certainly indicates that all wasn’t well.

I 100% don’t want one of the same old type managers, but if equally I don’t want someone because they might improve our profile. Not a name linked but the bloke at Union Berlin has done a great job - I’ve read a bit about him recently - he woukd be the sort I’d like to look at. I’ve not seen much about Knutsen but assume he’d be a similar type of appointment.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm

His experience, though on paper impressive, is limited. He's worked with one group of players and by necessity, he's completely unproven in the transfer market, as a trader or as a team builder. And whilst he's undoubtedly got a reaction out of that group, he couldn't really lose - even if Derby finished bottom he would quite rightly have had the excuse that their predicament made that the likely outcome. Managing when it's all upside, and you can get a group to prove something to the world, is very different to the pressure cooker of trying to either win promotion or keep a team up.

Spice makes a good point here. Whilst it doesn't mean that he couldn't do the job uts a very different kettle of fish to deliver when expected a d your job is on the line.

Exactly the same reason I don't think MJ and team should get the job. It's pretty simple to tell players to play with freedom when you're not going to be held accountable if the results don't go for you. Its an easy decision. Much harder to make a decision like that when it's not last chance saloon and you know the owners are ready to bin you off.

Our off field professionalism has left a lot to be desired in recent years. We have two convicted drink drivers in the squad, don’t forget.

Dyche may have instilled certain values in the club, but they have certainly been disregarded by two squad members that we know of, if not more.

Rooney was always under the microscope because of his superstar status.

Rooney is no saint, sure, but quite comfortably there are players in our squad that aren’t either.

Bardsley, as we all know, is huge mates of Rooney. Chances are they often socialise and drink together. I don’t think anyone could ever question Bardsley’s professionalism.

I was going to say what Tsar has said.

For all of the talk of discipline we’ve had done rather unsavoury stuff happen involving our players.

Gif the record I’d love Rooney or Kompany.

dsr wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:49 pm

A smaller club with money. In their last 2 PL seasons, they spent £100m more than they took in, and still got relegated.

The point was he has an appropriate CV but yes like everyone else he has had his meh moments.

Have been wondering if the Stephens incident was a factor in the decision to sack Dyche - given the timing

Following on from Barnes last year perhaps there was an expectation that SD would act to eradicate that culture

EarbyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:41 pm

Have been wondering if the Stephens incident was a factor in the decision to sack Dyche - given the timing

Following on from Barnes last year perhaps there was an expectation that SD would act to eradicate that culture

While I think there were other factors at play in terms of the sacking, I thought both incidents were handled poorly by SD and made a bit of a mockery of the standards of discipline that were claimed to be held. I did wonder how it went down in the board room.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm

I've got two concerns about Rooney.

The first is the same one as applies to Duff - but on steroids. His experience, though on paper impressive, is limited. He's worked with one group of players and by necessity, he's completely unproven in the transfer market, as a trader or as a team builder. And whilst he's undoubtedly got a reaction out of that group, he couldn't really lose - even if Derby finished bottom he would quite rightly have had the excuse that their predicament made that the likely outcome. Managing when it's all upside, and you can get a group to prove something to the world, is very different to the pressure cooker of trying to either win promotion or keep a team up.

The second is about his off-field professionalism. He's got a long list of off-field misdemeanours, often involving late nights. The last was as recently as last summer. So much of our success is about the values that Dyche has instilled - discipline, respect, self-control. I'm far from convinced that Rooney is a custodian of them.

I do wonder if he's someone that attracts the owners not because of his abilities as a coach, but because he's a name who might help attract other investment.

Good post but for all Dyche's discipline and professionalism we've still had 2 players convicted of drink driving whilst he's been here. I agree it's important for the manager to set the tone but i think a good amount of players still just act however they fancy.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:14 pm

So just so I understand, what you are saying is there’s only a handful of managers, you can count on one hand in fact, that can manage Burnley and do a good job?

I didn't say that, what I said what that there are only so many you could cite that have the appropriate experience to make a strong evidential claim they would be successful.

Anybody can say anything on a forum.

Derby takeover imminent according to Rooney. That’ll rule him out.

EarbyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:41 pm

Have been wondering if the Stephens incident was a factor in the decision to sack Dyche - given the timing

Following on from Barnes last year perhaps there was an expectation that SD would act to eradicate that culture

More likely an incident with Cornet if rumours are found to be substantiated

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:07 am

Derby takeover imminent according to Rooney. That’ll rule him out.

Not necessarily, its not often new owners buy a club and keep the management team.

If Barnes had of had his contract terminated if possible, perhaps the Stephens incident wouldn't have happened.

I am not sure that you can sack a player for just being over the limit. He has already been punished by law.

Internal discipline for tarnishing club image, however, there would be no footballers, if that had been just a few years ago!

"Vincent Kompany has emerged as a contender to become the next permanent manager of Burnley" according to Mike McGrath

I’d be happy with Bilic or Kompany.

I just have a feeling they’d be a good fit for us.

https://cafetactiques.com/2022/04/12/ar ... 2-tactics/

This is quite an interesting recent article on the tactics Kompany uses. Look away now… it’s 4-4-2.

But from the sounds of it, at least according to this article, it’s a very fluid attacking 4-4-2. Sounds like he’s really steadied the ship at Anderlecht who were going through one of their worst ever periods before he joined.

I think he’d be a good option. Pep might lend us a few of his youngsters…

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:23 am

https://cafetactiques.com/2022/04/12/ar ... 2-tactics/

This is quite an interesting recent article on the tactics Kompany uses. Look away now… it’s 4-4-2.

But from the sounds of it, at least according to this article, it’s a very fluid attacking 4-4-2. Sounds like he’s really steadied the ship at Anderlecht who were going through one of their worst ever periods before he joined.

I think he’d be a good option. Pep might lend us a few of his youngsters…

Sounds just the job and he certainly has the gravitas for the role

Did Rooney attract any extra investment in Derby?

Don't think that Mr. Pace will appoint a manager just for that.

I do agree we need a young and upcoming manager, and I'd even suggest one from the continent with an English backroom staff that is Burnley through and through (Mee, Bardsley, Jackson etc.).

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:38 am

Sounds just the job and he certainly has the gravitas for the role

Just to mention that Kompany is also a shareholder in Anderlecht, that's why he was appointed as their manager in the first place

Belgianclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:42 am

Just to mention that Kompany is also a shareholder in Anderlecht, that's why he was appointed as their manager in the first place

Boyhood club too - oh well it’s good to dream!

We need a very good manager.

TsarBomba wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:10 pm

Our off field professionalism has left a lot to be desired in recent years. We have two convicted drink drivers in the squad, don’t forget.

Dyche may have instilled certain values in the club, but they have certainly been disregarded by two squad members that we know of, if not more.

Rooney was always under the microscope because of his superstar status.

Rooney is no saint, sure, but quite comfortably there are players in our squad that aren’t either.

Bardsley, as we all know, is huge mates of Rooney. Chances are they often socialise and drink together. I don’t think anyone could ever question Bardsley’s professionalism.

This is a fair point, and I'm not suggesting that our squad is made up of saints. Clearly, the very serious drink driving charges demonstrate that is not the case.

But - we can imagine Dyche dealt with those incidents firmly, and his own self-discipline and professionalism was never in doubt. That gives him the authority to set standards. There's a reason why I can't think of too many players who have the sort of chequered record Rooney had and still has who become top managers, certainly not whilst those incidents remain part of their recent past.

I don't think Rooney's relationship with Bardsley is relevant. Anyone can be mates with someone who has less discipline and drive than they do themselves. The fact that you'd like to think most of the Burnley squad follow the path set by Barnes and Stephens is hopefully in itself evidence of that.

Kompany I'd tend to have in a different bracket to Rooney. I have my doubts about his experience too at this stage (he's still pretty raw in management, and even allowing for their recent struggles Anderlecht in Belgium is a completely different challenge to Burnley in the Premier League in particular) but his leadership and professionalism were much admired at City, not least by one Ben Mee who has regularly cited him as a very significant influence on his career as a young pro at City.

Generally - I'm not bothered about a manager who is up and coming or established. I want someone who can come in, evolve the squad without ripping up the template that has got us here (that tends to end badly) and preferably maintain the stability that the club is known for. I still think that to achieve that, we're looking for someone who can work with more oversight from a director of football administration than Dyche had. But I do think it's important that they've earned their spurs, built a team and shown that they aren't just a flash in the pan.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:49 am

We need a very good manager.

Insightful stuff. Thanks.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:49 am

We need a very good manager.

An insightful and thought provoking post Ian. Thank you!

Post of the day, right here.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:13 pm

If it’s profile we want then Waddle is available.

I still giggle at that when the "Waddle out" chants were ringing around and all the opposition fans used to walk like ducks

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:03 pm

He didn’t and I didn’t think at the time that he was a good appointment for Palace

Palace are only 4 points above Leeds

Viera has done a fair job, but it's by no means a great job. Grey cloud mediocrity, with a cup-run silver lining as far as I can make out

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:55 am

Palace are only 4 points above Leeds

Viera has done a fair job, but it's by no means a great job. Grey cloud mediocrity, with a cup-run silver lining as far as I can make out

More or less safe with 5 games to go and a FA Cup semi final seems pretty good to me. In fact, I'd dare say it's better than most seasons we've had in the PL.

A YouTube video of Kompany's team talks at Anderlecht:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIdNfLR ... FUTCentral

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:55 am

Palace are only 4 points above Leeds

Viera has done a fair job, but it's by no means a great job. Grey cloud mediocrity, with a cup-run silver lining as far as I can make out

I hadn’t realised they’d dropped to that level. Probably it’s because I can’t see to far ahead of us.

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:55 am

Palace are only 4 points above Leeds

Viera has done a fair job, but it's by no means a great job. Grey cloud mediocrity, with a cup-run silver lining as far as I can make out

I'd happily settle for a comfortable mid-table slot next season with a decent cup run thrown into the mix.

And don't forget he's essentially overhauled most of their first XI, so the odds are they will only improve next season, and crucially he's got them playing decent attacking footy.

not sure if this has been mentioned but in William Hills list - Stan Ternent is 66/1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:31 am

A YouTube video of Kompany's team talks at Anderlecht:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIdNfLR ... FUTCentral

Looks like a right cock. Our players wouldn't respond to that.

Steddyman wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:49 pm

Looks like a right cock. Our players wouldn't respond to that.

Our current players might not, but we do have 10 players OOC.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:36 pm

I'd happily settle for a comfortable mid-table slot next season with a decent cup run thrown into the mix.

And don't forget he's essentially overhauled most of their first XI, so the odds are they will only improve next season, and crucially he's got them playing decent attacking footy.

Agree. And I'm not saying he's done a bad job. But I don't think it's quite as good as people have made out

Murger wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:59 pm

Our current players might not, but we do have 10 players OOC.

I don't think any players would. Looks like the bible of man management from 20 years ago.

A club like ours needs a manager players look up to and respect and that can listen to them and guide them on their development journey. Just like Mike Jackson seems to be doing.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 pm

I've got two concerns about Rooney.

The first is the same one as applies to Duff - but on steroids. His experience, though on paper impressive, is limited. He's worked with one group of players and by necessity, he's completely unproven in the transfer market, as a trader or as a team builder. And whilst he's undoubtedly got a reaction out of that group, he couldn't really lose - even if Derby finished bottom he would quite rightly have had the excuse that their predicament made that the likely outcome. Managing when it's all upside, and you can get a group to prove something to the world, is very different to the pressure cooker of trying to either win promotion or keep a team up.

The second is about his off-field professionalism. He's got a long list of off-field misdemeanours, often involving late nights. The last was as recently as last summer. So much of our success is about the values that Dyche has instilled - discipline, respect, self-control. I'm far from convinced that Rooney is a custodian of them.

I do wonder if he's someone that attracts the owners not because of his abilities as a coach, but because he's a name who might help attract other investment.

While I do agree with your post, I feel I must point out that your second point possibly its gone too far that way. The players for the last 3 games have had much more freedom and look to be playing with enjoyment and smile on faces. McNeil to take one player for example has been unbelievable since MJ took over, back to the same kid that burst into the team years ago.

If MJ Ben Mee and co keep us up and they want it I'd offer them the roles
They know the club the players of all ages, the owners and the budget, and Ben has the support of the supporters, he is a legend,a leader and is shrewd.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:31 am

A YouTube video of Kompany's team talks at Anderlecht:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIdNfLR ... FUTCentral

Quite illuminating. I'm always wary of clubs that allow this access tbh - I'm really not sure what is gained from it. See also, Rodgers at Liverpool and the Amazon documentary. Kompany doesn't come across amazing but I'm sure there's loads we're not seeing.

Surprised a Belgian guy, managing a Belgian club with (I would imagine) predominantly Belgian players, communicates in English but maybe it's to avoid the French/Flemish split.

Finally, Craig Bellamy comes across surprisingly well.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:31 am

A YouTube video of Kompany's team talks at Anderlecht:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIdNfLR ... FUTCentral

After sitting through that for a few games the players are going to need treating for depression.
Bullet points and sound bites. No passion, no personal touch, no intense feelings. Just quotes.
Kompanys not for me, but Bellamy did come across OK.

That video shows us very little, it’s a snapshot of 30 second sound bytes just as the players leave or enter the dressing room and seems to have been framed around games that they happened to lose.

There is a lot more to managing a football team than those moments.

Also, who’s to say that SD wasn’t similar? I can’t recall ever seeing any videos of him as the players leave the dressing room.

On the subject of SD if someone produced a similar video of 30 second sound bytes of his press conferences, I’d have watched and thought we don’t want him, he’s like David Brent!

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:21 am

That video shows us very little, it’s a snapshot of 30 second sound bytes just as the players leave or enter the dressing room and seems to have been framed around games that they happened to lose.

There is a lot more to managing a football team than those moments.

Also, who’s to say that SD wasn’t similar? I can’t recall ever seeing any videos of him as the players leave the dressing room.

On the subject of SD if someone produced a similar video of 30 second sound bytes of his press conferences, I’d have watched and thought we don’t want him, he’s like David Brent!

I don't know and haven't heard anything one way or another but I would have thought S D would have been the opposite of that with plenty of interaction and players having their say rather than all sat there with their heads down.

Nonayforever wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:05 am

I don't know and haven't heard anything one way or another but I would have thought S D would have been the opposite of that with plenty of interaction and players having their say rather than all sat there with their heads down.

Well all this talk of “freedom” in the last fortnight suggests otherwise.

Nonayforever wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:05 am

I don't know and haven't heard anything one way or another but I would have thought S D would have been the opposite of that with plenty of interaction and players having their say rather than all sat there with their heads down.

I got entirely the opposite impression tbh but Dyche and staff (quite rightly) didn’t allow cameras sticking their oar in. Can only go off anecdotal and what’s happening now. Also wasn’t one of the main facets of SD’s tenure is almost old school approach to discipline and respect.