VAR and the laws

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dsr
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VAR and the laws

Post by dsr » Mon May 16, 2022 12:34 am

Regardless of whether Friend was right or wrong to give a penalty today. This isn't about him, but about the laws in general.

How have we reached the position where the laws are such that anyone can believe today's "handball" deserves to be a penalty? How do the laws and/or VAR come to the conclusion that the game is better with penalties like these? Why don't the pundits say something like "Yes it is a penalty under today's laws, which just goes to show what a bunch of incomptetent deadbeats we have in charge"?

And the same with offside. We had two choices - one, keep the rule as it was, level is onside (a rule brought in specifically to encourage more goals) and judge offside by eye with no lines on the screen; two, judge offside to the millimetre, so that we have long delays before a goal can be confirmed, so that half the extra goals caused by the 1990 rule change can be disallowed, and so that the laws become different for shots that the keeper saves compared with shots that he lets in. Why do the lawsmakers think the second way is better?
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by tarkys_ears » Mon May 16, 2022 12:37 am

Whatever the rules... no ******* VAR and no one would have blinked an eyelid at what happened today.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by tarkys_ears » Mon May 16, 2022 12:38 am

what "happened" I should say

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 12:44 am

I don't see how they can give a pen for a soft handball but not the blatant ones like when Collins gets flattened at set pieces. It's the selective picking and choosing of which rules they want to enforce that has ruined the game
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 16, 2022 12:47 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:44 am
I don't see how they can give a pen for a soft handball but not the blatant ones like when Collins gets flattened at set pieces. It's the selective picking and choosing of which rules they want to enforce that has ruined the game
This is the same referee who didn't give us a penalty at home to Norwich when Vydra was flattened by the goalkeeper but he gives this one against us today.

I don't think the teams or league are bent, the referees certainly favour the big clubs though. The referees are also useless, being exposed as useless by VAR which isn't good for the game and isn't being implemented correctly at all.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 12:52 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:47 am
This is the same referee who didn't give us a penalty at home to Norwich when Vydra was flattened by the goalkeeper but he gives this one against us today.

I don't think the teams or league are bent, the referees certainly favour the big clubs though. The referees are also useless, being exposed as useless by VAR which isn't good for the game and isn't being implemented correctly at all.
it's time we signed refs from other leagues. Best Managers, some of the best players and absolutely the worst officials

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 16, 2022 12:56 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:52 am
it's time we signed refs from other leagues. Best Managers, some of the best players and absolutely the worst officials
VAR is such a huge issue, it's not allowing the on field referee to referee the match. It causes a power conflict between the two officials, all the VAR referee should say to the onfield referee is ''I suggest you go and have a 2nd look on the monitor'', the onfield referee should not be pressured and forced into agreeing with the VAR ref.

It was a complete waste of time Friend having a look on the monitor today because it's like he didn't have a say in the end decision anyway. The moment he walked towards the monitor, the penalty was pretty much given and it cannot be like that.

There's also a huge issue with VAR that everything looks 100x worse when replayed in slow motion.
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 1:04 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:56 am
VAR is such a huge issue, it's not allowing the on field referee to referee the match. It causes a power conflict between the two officials, all the VAR referee should say to the onfield referee is ''I suggest you go and have a 2nd look on the monitor'', the onfield referee should not be pressured and forced into agreeing with the VAR ref.

It was a complete waste of time Friend having a look on the monitor today because it's like he didn't have a say in the end decision anyway. The moment he walked towards the monitor, the penalty was pretty much given and it cannot be like that.

There's also a huge issue with VAR that everything looks 100x worse when replayed in slow motion.
IMHO there should be no ear piece conversations other than "check the screen". Those in the booth shouldn't tell them what they are looking at or give their opinion. It works so much better in other countries
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 16, 2022 1:08 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 1:04 am
IMHO there should be no ear piece conversations other than "check the screen". Those in the booth shouldn't tell them what they are looking at or give their opinion. It works so much better in other countries
Agreed 100%

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by RammyClaret61 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:42 am

It took Atwell 2 min 40 sec to send Friend to the screen. Friend looked at the screen for 6 seconds with only the angle that made it look like full contact with the arm. Not the one showing it actually only slightly brushed his arm and didn’t alter the trajectory of the ball. The whole incident took 6 minutes.

Friend had a perfect view live, not one player, manager/backroom staff or supporter claimed.

This game was referred from a box miles away.
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by FCBurnley » Mon May 16, 2022 2:37 am

The Angry little man and his team were desperate for a goal. The Premier League granted their request. Now they may play in The Champions League and we may play in The Championship. Not decided by skill or luck or effort but by one still frame shown on a video screen. Follow the money
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by bumba » Mon May 16, 2022 5:17 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 1:04 am
IMHO there should be no ear piece conversations other than "check the screen". Those in the booth shouldn't tell them what they are looking at or give their opinion. It works so much better in other countries
I don't mind them talking it through but it should be playing for everyone to hear even those inside the stadium so it's transparent.
Personally I even think after watching it Kevin Friend wasn't convinced as he paused after watching it and looked like he made his made up very late and bottled going with his on field decision.
It wasn't a clean and obvious error so there was no need for VAR to get involved.
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by JohnMcGreal » Mon May 16, 2022 7:29 am

With no VAR there's no penalty yesterday. Lots of people were very vocal about the need to bring VAR into the game, our previous manager being one of them.

All it's done is scrutinise every possible incident, with the aim of finding a fault and to change the refs original decision. Because apparently referees sometimes get their original decisions wrong, and that can't possibly do.

You also now have much more serious allegations of corruption, because if a referee gets something so wrong even with multiple replays, then that benefit of doubt, which he would have got on the field in real time, has gone.

The thing is a complete mess and has been from day one. It's time people held their hands up, admitted that bringing in VAR was an error and scrap it. But no. We'll persist with the error and continue to spoil the game.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by beddie » Mon May 16, 2022 7:44 am

I’ve said from day one that I don’t want/ like VAR and I’m still of that opinion, yes it may have favoured us at times but it’s the stop starts and millimetres that’s killing it for me, add to that the current offside rule and it’s a different game to the good old days of proper football back in the 60/70s, that’s when they made proper footballers. :)

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by DAVETHEVICAR » Mon May 16, 2022 8:04 am

The Luton v Huddersfield match was ruined without VAR
There was a clear sending off in the first minute, 2 clear and blatant penalties not given.
VAR is needed imo
Shearer was spot on on MOD when he said “ when balls hit defender’s arms in the box penalties should only be given if deliberate or the defender gets an advantage “
He is spot on and yesterday it would not have been given.
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:43 am

Shearer was spot on, absolutely.

The issue I have is like our manager, the fact that holding from the attacker on Barnes affects how his arm becomes in an unnatural position. For some VAR decisions they watch at least 10 seconds of play but for this handball they are effectively disregarding the lead up.

There needed to be more of the build up shown to the onfield ref on the video so he could have had a more rounded view of the incident. Seeing what he saw you have to give the pen. If he sees the incident from the cross with the holding he may disagree with the VAR and stick with the onfield decision. As it’s Kevin Friend we are talking about I doubt he would have said no pen but at least he needed the information which he never got to see.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Firthy » Mon May 16, 2022 8:54 am

Unfortunately VAR, money and dubious penalties in particular are ruining football as a contest and spectacle. Just not worth watching anymore because all it does is wind you up.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by IanMcL » Mon May 16, 2022 9:00 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:44 am
I don't see how they can give a pen for a soft handball but not the blatant ones like when Collins gets flattened at set pieces. It's the selective picking and choosing of which rules they want to enforce that has ruined the game
Selective is your key word.

Just another tool for the prem to manipulate results, via its hired judges on and off the pitch.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by dsr » Mon May 16, 2022 9:00 am

But how have the laws got in such a state that anyone could even consider this to be a penalty?

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by IanMcL » Mon May 16, 2022 9:08 am

dsr wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 9:00 am
But how have the laws got in such a state that anyone could even consider this to be a penalty?
Officials at prem decided, so it would offer 'choice' to their officials. On the same way they took no action over Richarlison, when every other occasion is sorted within 2-3 days, to make the statement about rules.

The prem now reflects the government.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Tall Paul » Mon May 16, 2022 9:11 am

dsr wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 9:00 am
But how have the laws got in such a state that anyone could even consider this to be a penalty?
They're trying to take subjectivity out of the laws and make them consistent, probably because of all the complaining from managers and supporters when subjective decisions go against them.

We often used to have posters on here saying that any time the ball struck a defender's hand/arm in the box it should be a penalty.

"All we want is consistency"

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by martin_p » Mon May 16, 2022 9:14 am

The problem is VAR seems to have moved on from it’s original remit of ‘clear and obvious error’.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Woonderbah » Mon May 16, 2022 9:52 am

The selective use of VAR has become a tool in the belt of those that seek to mold and shape the brand that is the Premier League.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon May 16, 2022 9:53 am

VAR has meant that two more opinions, VAR and Assistant VAR, have been introduced into 'helping' the match officials make correct decisions.
The game is still played with 22 players on the pitch at any one time, it used to be officiated quite well by 3 officials and it was accepted that the odd mistakes were made and it was mainly enjoyable to watch.
At the top level now, we have 6 officials looking after the 22 players on the pitch and all aided and abetted by digital technology. Has it improved the game as a spectacle, is it better to watch, have the changes in TLOG made to accommodate VAR at the top level made everything clearer? I shall leave you to answer those questions. Suffice to say that watching non-league football this past season has been really good and great value for money.

Never mind, FIFA are working on more robots to help with the officiating at the top level ----enjoy!

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 pm

As I've said on many occasions since VAR was implemented in the PL it simply used as a tool to back up and help the perceived bigger clubs get an advantage. That decision yesterday wouldn't even have warranted a review at the other end.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by burnleymik » Mon May 16, 2022 1:43 pm

Can you imagine the outcry if we had got that and Tottenham went on to lose that game 1-0.....

We were stitched up there, there was no clear and obvious error from the ref. He had a great view and let play continue, a few half-assed appeals and then forgotten. Spurs went on to have a great chance wasted by Kane. None of the players even went back to him about it after Kane missed. The fans were not appealing it.

The proximity wasn't taken into context. The jostling before wasn't taken into context. There was no advantage for the defending team from the ball brushing Barnes' arm. The trajectory of the ball didn't even really seem to change.

Overall it was farcical for Atwell to get involved there.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Tall Paul » Mon May 16, 2022 1:44 pm

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 pm
As I've said on many occasions since VAR was implemented in the PL it simply used as a tool to back up and help the perceived bigger clubs get an advantage. That decision yesterday wouldn't even have warranted a review at the other end.
How does that fit in with VAR denying Everton a penalty then sending off their defender at Goodison yesterday?

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:47 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:52 am
it's time we signed refs from other leagues. Best Managers, some of the best players and absolutely the worst officials
It won't happen because that would put the whole cartel at risk
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon May 16, 2022 2:30 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 9:53 am
VAR has meant that two more opinions, VAR and Assistant VAR, have been introduced into 'helping' the match officials make correct decisions.
The game is still played with 22 players on the pitch at any one time, it used to be officiated quite well by 3 officials and it was accepted that the odd mistakes were made and it was mainly enjoyable to watch.
At the top level now, we have 6 officials looking after the 22 players on the pitch and all aided and abetted by digital technology. Has it improved the game as a spectacle, is it better to watch, have the changes in TLOG made to accommodate VAR at the top level made everything clearer? I shall leave you to answer those questions. Suffice to say that watching non-league football this past season has been really good and great value for money.

Never mind, FIFA are working on more robots to help with the officiating at the top level ----enjoy!
Its not the refereeing or the VAR that is the problem but the TV coverage and what is at stake in profession football. If you took away all the TV cameras and all the Premier and Football league money then it would be more like non-league football.

Trouble is as per this messageboard people are absolutely consumed and obsessed with supporting their football team to the point where they are angry about any decision that seemingly go against them. If VAR didn't exist we would have all the same threads hating on referees and accusing people of bias and cheating but it would be just solely aimed at the referee and not at the referee and VAR as a whole.

The standard of refereeing in the past was far worse than it is today but the game was so slow and there was so little TV scrutiny these is a misconception have things being all rosy in the past

Aren't you an ex official cos if you are it amazes me the rubbish you post on VAR and refereeing when you should know a lot better

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 2:52 pm

People keep posting about clear and obvious. This has nothing to do with the new rule as I understand it now. The rule is simply if it hits the hand when the hand is in an unnatural position or defined as raised above shoulder height then it’s a pen. Unfortunately for poor old Ashley having been wrestling with a Spurs player he was caught off balance when his arm went out. Very unfortunate but as per the rules it is a pen. An absolute nonsense rule which has had the deliberate part removed also. It’s clearly not deliberate handball but that doesn’t matter now.

The issue I have is whether it gets given at the other end. There’s absolutely no doubt it would not have been looked at and the half time whistle would have blown. That’s the only thing clear and obvious about it all.

Stephen Warnock described how defenders are taught to use their arms for balance and how the new law is changing how defenders are able to keep their balance. Unfortunately we had an attacker in the box and one that was knocked off balance a bit by a Spurs player.

So many of these VAR decisions end up being a catalogue of errors and bad luck. The one yesterday is a great example as if Ashley is not slightly off balance from the tussle his arm is unlikely to be in the unnatural position. Most pundits, even the ex Spurs ones appear to think it is an absolute nonsense.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Vintage Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 3:05 pm

From what I've seen and read from the pundits since yesterday regarding the penalty the consensus seems to be that strictly under the (new) laws of the game it's a penalty.

However the consensus also seems to be it's a complete nonsense and not what the handball rule/law was originally intended to punish.

If the defending player deliberately trys to control the ball with his hand and/or gains an advantage from doing so then fine, a penalty, but did Barnes's 'offence' fit either of those 2 criteria bearing in mind the ball was struck at him from very close range and didn't deviate at all?

Same with offsides now, if the attackers big toe is in front of the line it's strictly speaking offside under the (new) laws but again, is that really what the offside law was designed for?

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by martin_p » Mon May 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 2:52 pm
People keep posting about clear and obvious. This has nothing to do with the new rule as I understand it now. The rule is simply if it hits the hand when the hand is in an unnatural position or defined as raised above shoulder height then it’s a pen. Unfortunately for poor old Ashley having been wrestling with a Spurs player he was caught off balance when his arm went out. Very unfortunate but as per the rules it is a pen. An absolute nonsense rule which has had the deliberate part removed also. It’s clearly not deliberate handball but that doesn’t matter now.

The issue I have is whether it gets given at the other end. There’s absolutely no doubt it would not have been looked at and the half time whistle would have blown. That’s the only thing clear and obvious about it all.

Stephen Warnock described how defenders are taught to use their arms for balance and how the new law is changing how defenders are able to keep their balance. Unfortunately we had an attacker in the box and one that was knocked off balance a bit by a Spurs player.

So many of these VAR decisions end up being a catalogue of errors and bad luck. The one yesterday is a great example as if Ashley is not slightly off balance from the tussle his arm is unlikely to be in the unnatural position. Most pundits, even the ex Spurs ones appear to think it is an absolute nonsense.
But surely his arm is in a natural position for someone thrown off balance?

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by RickyBobby » Mon May 16, 2022 3:12 pm

The laws are simple. Favour the bigger sides and do all you can to ensure that the correct result happens.
It is important for the premier league that both Everton and Leeds stay up as they are more marketable. The premier league needs them to make even more money in the emerging markets. The premier league is a business. Football is a business. Businesses are about one thing and that isn’t sporting integrity, it is money.
If you can’t see it now then you probably never will. It is only going to get worse.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 3:15 pm

Its absolutely **** for us, but under the current laws that is a pen

I mean, its a pen (it shouldn't be btw, but it is, and if it isn't, where do you draw the line?)

Quite pleased to see a load more posters going on about conspiracies though!

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Tall Paul » Mon May 16, 2022 3:15 pm

RickyBobby wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:12 pm
The laws are simple. Favour the bigger sides and do all you can to ensure that the correct result happens.
It is important for the premier league that both Everton and Leeds stay up as they are more marketable. The premier league needs them to make even more money in the emerging markets. The premier league is a business. Football is a business. Businesses are about one thing and that isn’t sporting integrity, it is money.
If you can’t see it now then you probably never will. It is only going to get worse.
How does that fit in with VAR denying Everton a penalty then sending off their defender at Goodison yesterday?

Seeing as the last person to post this wild conspiracy theory didn't answer me.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by martin_p » Mon May 16, 2022 3:18 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:15 pm
Its absolutely **** for us, but under the current laws that is a pen

I mean, its a pen (it shouldn't be btw, but it is, and if it isn't, where do you draw the line?)
Go back to it being deliberate, or hand to ball, expect when the ball is put into the net or stopped from going in the net.
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 3:19 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:15 pm
How does that fit in with VAR denying Everton a penalty then sending off their defender at Goodison yesterday?

Seeing as the last person to post this wild conspiracy theory didn't answer me.
Well, its like this see, it was so obvious a sending off that they couldn't over rule it

They made a quick call to Conspiracy HQ, got told that its obvious and that the last thing we need is someone finding out its a fix

All done in a couple of minutes

Piece of p**s this conspiracy theory lark, no wonder people believe any old s**t these days (and that includes stuff that is actually really bad, rather than just a game of football)

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon May 16, 2022 3:21 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 2:30 pm
Its not the refereeing or the VAR that is the problem but the TV coverage and what is at stake in profession football. If you took away all the TV cameras and all the Premier and Football league money then it would be more like non-league football.

Trouble is as per this messageboard people are absolutely consumed and obsessed with supporting their football team to the point where they are angry about any decision that seemingly go against them. If VAR didn't exist we would have all the same threads hating on referees and accusing people of bias and cheating but it would be just solely aimed at the referee and not at the referee and VAR as a whole.

The standard of refereeing in the past was far worse than it is today but the game was so slow and there was so little TV scrutiny these is a misconception have things being all rosy in the past

Aren't you an ex official cos if you are it amazes me the rubbish you post on VAR and refereeing when you should know a lot better
So the question is simple ---Is the game more enjoyable to watch these days than it was pre-VAR and the changes to TLOG to accommodate VAR?

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Tall Paul » Mon May 16, 2022 3:26 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:21 pm
So the question is simple ---Is the game more enjoyable to watch these days than it was pre-VAR and the changes to TLOG to accommodate VAR?
Pretty sure it's more popular than it ever has been worldwide, so the answer is probably yes for the majority of people.

RMutt
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by RMutt » Mon May 16, 2022 3:30 pm

Interesting that the passage of play resulted in Kane’s missed chance. Would I be right in thinking if Kane had scored advantage would have been given? I can’t imagine them disallowing the goal. The argument could be made, therefore, that the advantage was given and Kane fluffed his lines.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by burnleymik » Mon May 16, 2022 3:32 pm

RMutt wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:30 pm
Interesting that the passage of play resulted in Kane’s missed chance. Would I be right in thinking if Kane had scored advantage would have been given? I can’t imagine them disallowing the goal. The argument could be made, therefore, that the advantage was given and Kane fluffed his lines.
Yep, they essentially got two opportunities to score.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Sgt. Pepper » Mon May 16, 2022 3:33 pm

Unfortunately the decision to award the penalty is probably correct under the current laws of the game. The problem is the laws are ludicrous.
The Premier League is becoming incredibly dull, and VAR is a large part of that. VAR is great if you are a casual supporter who only watches football on TV, or are only really interested in gambling etc.
The spontaneous enjoyment of watching games in person has been largely destroyed. By the time there's been a five minute long VAR review of a goal is anybody really going to celebrate in the same spontaneous way?
Partly due to work commitments I haven't renewed my season ticket for next year. The decision was made easier not because of results, but because the whole thing has become a sanitised 'product'.
I'll still go to reasonable number of home games, but I will choose a lower League club closer to where I live in the West Midlands to follow on a regular basis.
Ironically, even though I'd love us to stay up, I will regret my non-renewal more if we're playing in The Championship next year.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 3:43 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:32 pm
Yep, they essentially got two opportunities to score.
The play until the big club score rule was fully endorsed. How often do you get 4 minutes added on to a half. There were loads of stoppages in one of our games the other week and I remember commenting about the 1 minute added to the first half and yesterday we get 4. You couldn’t make it up.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by RMutt » Mon May 16, 2022 3:47 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:32 pm
Yep, they essentially got two opportunities to score.
Indeed. I realise the ‘advantage’ was perhaps unintentional, but the moment Kane had his chance to strike on goal the advantage was over and play should have continued.

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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon May 16, 2022 4:01 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:21 pm
So the question is simple ---Is the game more enjoyable to watch these days than it was pre-VAR and the changes to TLOG to accommodate VAR?
The game is far more enjoyable to watch than it was in the 80's and 90's because the standard of football is miles ahead.

Has VAR made it more enjoyable to watch then for me the answer is no but pre-VAR when people were clamouring for it I was the one defending the refs saying that with the pace of the game and how subjective it is then we are always going to get errors and we should just accept it.I predicted multiple times on here that all VAR would do is divert the moaning and anger from the refs to VAR and I have been proved correct.

The problem is that fans, managers and players are biased so the decisions we think are wrong the other team thinks the ref got it right and the ones we think are right the other teams moan about. It means that no matter what the ref does one team if not both teams will always think the ref has made the wrong decisions and favoured the other team.

I have always said the day they get two managers together after the game and show them the video of the key decisions. ask them their opinion and get them to both agree the ref has got most of the decisions correct then I will happily blame the ref but if the managers cant agree and are saying different things then what chance has the ref got.

Add biased fans to the above then its even worse and until its accepted that it is an impossible job and that errors will be made then forever and a day refs will unfairly get the blame from fans, managers and pundits alike
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Re: VAR and the laws

Post by AwayClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 4:12 pm

Is the standard or referee's and the laws that need sorting out not VAR. VAR as q concept is fine is the cretins that make the rules and judge that need to be better.

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