Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
ClaretTony
Posts: 67429
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5255 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 16, 2022 7:02 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 6:58 pm
Had the mods dealt with him correctly yesterday he wouldn't have been able to turn up today
Sorry - I knew this thread would take a down turn but I’m not having posters making wild accusations about mods.

Boss Hogg
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:34 am
Been Liked: 846 times
Has Liked: 1090 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Boss Hogg » Mon May 16, 2022 7:03 pm

Mentioned it on the other thread but I’m not sure why anyone needs to know anyone else’s sexuality in this day and age unless it makes them feel better. I wonder if a club would dare not renew the contract of the first footballer to openly ‘come out’ if they aren’t deemed good enough at football. How many footballers have ‘come out’ as bisexual as I bet there are some but do they really need to ? As long as they do the job on the pitch does any of it matter and does anyone need to know ?

claretburns
Posts: 4878
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 pm
Been Liked: 848 times
Has Liked: 334 times
Location: Halifax

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by claretburns » Mon May 16, 2022 7:07 pm

JarrowClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 6:20 pm
I hate seeing the words he was brave to come out as gay it is disgusting that just being himself is seen as being brave, it isn’t it is plain old honesty. Good on him but nobody should care really straight, gay or whatever shouldn’t matter.
Totally agree, my brave sentiments are not from the fact he is being himself, but more towards the potential abuse he may get from idiots on social media and within stadiums when playing. Plus being 17 years old and now having such a media whirlwind around him, it is a brave step which he has taken in that sense.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Being Gay

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:09 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:00 pm
Nothing against anyone that’s gay like absolutely crack on.

However professional footy is a kinda different atmosphere than the average work place.

Opinions welcomed
and therein lies the caveman thought process of an industry. There must be loads of gay footballers and they should be free to be whoever they want to be. If a Burnley player came out and it emerged another player was giving him grief I'd want the abuser sent packing straight away. You are there to play football and nothing else. Leave your ego's and opinions at the door or **** off !!

claptrappers_union
Posts: 5758
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 1747 times
Has Liked: 345 times
Location: The Banana Stand

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon May 16, 2022 7:11 pm

Just to bring it back in topic, I reckon they’ll be dozens more coming out before next season. Daniel’s will always recognised as a trailblazer for this. Good on him.

However be ready, they’ll be added microphones at stadiums now after players are coming out with Sky Sports ready to pounce on fans who boo them. So the coverage at some point will be negative because of some numb individuals. I really hope it doesn’t come to that, but it’ll be inevitable I think.

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:14 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:03 pm
Mentioned it on the other thread but I’m not sure why anyone needs to know anyone else’s sexuality in this day and age unless it makes them feel better. I wonder if a club would dare not renew the contract of the first footballer to openly ‘come out’ if they aren’t deemed good enough at football. How many footballers have ‘come out’ as bisexual as I bet there are some but do they really need to ? As long as they do the job on the pitch does any of it matter and does anyone need to know ?
Because he wants to be open about who he is. You are right that your sexuality shouldn't matter but it does actually matter. Members of the LGBTQ+ community are frequently harassed, discriminated against, ridiculed and worse just because of that.

Because as a heterosexual person you don't need to worry about any of that **** at all and quite openly have a heterosexual partner and everyone knows your sexuality (or assumes what it is) and nobody judges you on that.

Because now he's come out soem folks coming back handedly that there's no reason for him to bring his sexuality public so there must be another reason to it.

That's why.
These 2 users liked this post: Milltown1882 Falcon

Penwortham_Claret
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:23 am
Been Liked: 123 times
Has Liked: 19 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by Penwortham_Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:15 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 6:54 pm

I can't imagine this board would be a friendly place for anybody who came out as gay.
I think this sums up the problem, I don’t think there’d be any negativity or at least very very little yet there is this shark music that persists around homosexuality and football fans.

You only have to read the thread on the Blackpool lad or go onto Twitter and it is overwhelmingly positive yet your perception is that to come out as gay on here would be met with negativity. This is no way a dig at you, I just find the narrative so hard to understand

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:17 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:09 pm
and therein lies the caveman thought process of an industry. There must be loads of gay footballers and they should be free to be whoever they want to be. If a Burnley player came out and it emerged another player was giving him grief I'd want the abuser sent packing straight away. You are there to play football and nothing else. Leave your ego's and opinions at the door or **** off !!
I never said a player of any team would be giving them grief at all, just said that they may not have the same camaraderie.

Who’s your closest mates? Are they all straight males? Yup thought so.

Football is different than the average job. These lads are going away sharing hotels and transport together. Pro sports is totally unique in that regard.


It’s not ‘caveman thoughts’ it’s reality.

Watch any UndrTheCosh podcast and that’s what it is.

Indecisive
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 8:21 pm
Been Liked: 394 times
Has Liked: 68 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Indecisive » Mon May 16, 2022 7:17 pm

claretburns wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:07 pm
Totally agree, my brave sentiments are not from the fact he is being himself, but more towards the potential abuse he may get from idiots on social media and within stadiums when playing. Plus being 17 years old and now having such a media whirlwind around him, it is a brave step which he has taken in that sense.
I think we as fans need to actually be a bit braver too now. Start to self police a bit more and make the morons who feel the need to shout homophonic (or racist) abuse feel completely ostracised from the majority of us. Call them out, report them, challenge them and shout them down. We should be doing that en masse, whether it’s in the ground or on the message boards.

The nazi salutes the other day was horrendous and brought shame on all Burnley fans. None of us want to be associated with these cretins.

When people say individuals shouldn’t have to ‘come out’. In most cases it’s not a case of a grand coming out… it’s more finding the confidence to live their lives out in the open and feel accepted. Footballers currently know the minute they walk down the street holding a boyfriends hand it would cause a huge furore and be all over the papers. This lad is brave and confident enough to take a stand and be himself and break a stigma that I think 99% of us agree shouldn’t be there. Anyone who isn’t a 100% behind his actions are part of the problem, and should be ashamed.
These 2 users liked this post: tiger76 Zlatan

Cirrus_Minor
Posts: 4395
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:20 pm
Been Liked: 1156 times
Has Liked: 1282 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Mon May 16, 2022 7:21 pm

I was absolutely amazed to hear that he is the first to come out in 30 years. Good luck to the lad

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:21 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:00 pm
Nothing against anyone that’s gay like absolutely crack on.

However professional footy is a kinda different atmosphere than the average work place.

The changing room is basically all men ba a physio or two and such is the nature of the industry/job/sport you’re going to have a close knit group.

Boys being boys (especially the younger ones) are going to have silly nights out stories and all the bravado that comes with it.

I can see how some players wouldn’t necessarily open up the same way to a team mate in knowledge that they were gay or whatever.

Is this discriminatory? Or is it just as is.

Opinions welcomed
It's discriminatory. It might come as a surprise but a) gay folks are pretty fond of silly nights out and b) gay men don't automatically want to shag every ither man they see in a shower.
These 2 users liked this post: Lancasterclaret Guller Bull

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:23 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:21 pm
It's discriminatory. It might come as a surprise but a) gay folks are pretty fond of silly nights out and b) gay men don't automatically want to shag every ither man they see in a shower.
I know to both them points.

But I’m just saying, average straight lad isn’t going to have the same rapport with a gay guy as the do a straight one. It’ll always be different.

To suggest otherwise is disingenuous

RicardoMontalban
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
Been Liked: 288 times
Has Liked: 310 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by RicardoMontalban » Mon May 16, 2022 7:25 pm

Good on him and at such a young age that’s a hell of a step for him to take. Hopefully football is ready to make that step as well, in 2022 it’s way past overdue.

claptrappers_union
Posts: 5758
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 1747 times
Has Liked: 345 times
Location: The Banana Stand

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon May 16, 2022 7:26 pm

I suspect Daniels coming out won’t be a surprise to his teammates. It’s probably been an open secret and accepted within the squad for a long time.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:26 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:02 pm
Sorry - I knew this thread would take a down turn but I’m not having posters making wild accusations about mods.
Wild accusations?

His posts stayed up, while ones criticising him did not

Guess it must have been the usual one whenever Jakub posts eh?
This user liked this post: evensteadiereddie

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:29 pm

Anyway (before I get banned for pointing out the obvious)

Well done Mr Daniels

ksrclaret
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:56 am
Been Liked: 2490 times
Has Liked: 761 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by ksrclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:30 pm

Penwortham_Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:15 pm
I think this sums up the problem, I don’t think there’d be any negativity or at least very very little yet there is this shark music that persists around homosexuality and football fans.

You only have to read the thread on the Blackpool lad or go onto Twitter and it is overwhelmingly positive yet your perception is that to come out as gay on here would be met with negativity. This is no way a dig at you, I just find the narrative so hard to understand
I'm not saying the posters would overtly post homophobic abuse to someone who came out as gay.

What I'm saying is some of the general comments you read on here do not make this board a very friendly place for someone to come out as gay.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:30 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:23 pm
I know to both them points.

But I’m just saying, average straight lad isn’t going to have the same rapport with a gay guy as the do a straight one. It’ll always be different.

To suggest otherwise is disingenuous
Why is it? I have quite a lot of gay friends

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by Spiral » Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 6:48 pm
I’m not really sure why anyone needs to know. I suppose if it makes that person feel better or they want to seek approval fair enough. It does seem a bit a bit like making a grand announcement that you are Vegan or something. Why does anyone need to know if someone is heterosexual, bisexual or trans ? It shouldn’t be anyone else’s business. I don’t need to know or want to know if our footballers are gay or something else I couldn’t care less and just want them to be good at football.
Don't think of this in terms of a person coming out for your sake or mine, but rather for their own sake. Let me elaborate on that. I know this is a big post but please do read it if you're sincere in asking the question above because I'm fairly certain my answer is right.

I'm straight, so my own sexuality, like that of most other people, coheres with the assumptions that are made about me by default. In a lot of places and social situations people generally are assumed to be straight until stated otherwise. Draw on your own experiences you've had with your lad mates throughout your life (going right back to school), the conversations and comments you've made and heard, for example, about the attractiveness of a particularly good looking woman, and notice the assumptions underlying those conversations and comments that by default assume the heterosexuality of every person in the group. If you want an example of an assumption being made, I'm doing it right now by assuming you are a man. These assumptions are almost always harmless, and made through little fault of the person making the assumption. It's perfectly normal human psychology to make assumptions about our environment, including the people in it. Our brains would be over-worked to doubt every sensory experience or piece of information received in the mind. Our propensity to assume things is selected for by evolution. It helps streamline thought, it makes thinking more efficient, but it comes with some small drawbacks from time to time.

I can't know what it feels like to be closeted or to come out, but if I try to empathise then I can envision it being far, far more relaxing to be around folk who aren't making incorrect assumptions about my very essence. This is one reason why a person would come out. Another reason, as it appears to me, is more significant — that is, to have total control over what people know and do not know about you. In the case of those remotely in the public eye, there's the possibility of being outed by someone with malicious intent, or by someone careless or clumsy with that piece of information etc. I can't imaging what it would feel like to be outed against my will, especially in environments and industries that have more macho (which is to say, tacitly homophobic) cultures. And so the reason why a gay person would come out publicly is to assume ownership and control over the way people find this out. It's about one's own power and privacy, and not yielding it or losing it to others.

A person coming out is not necessarily for our benefit, at least not primarily; it's about a gay person's own agency. We straight folk don't experience this agency being taken from us, because like I said above, our assumed and actual sexuality is aligned. We don't know what it feels like to have another person take control over what people know about us, nor can we know the day-to-day anxiety over having this power snatched from us.
These 12 users liked this post: Milltown1882 BabylonClaret Indecisive Lancasterclaret GodIsADeeJay81 RicardoMontalban evensteadiereddie CombatClaret Boss Hogg wilks_bfc Falcon Damo

Beagle
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:46 pm
Been Liked: 190 times
Has Liked: 42 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by Beagle » Mon May 16, 2022 7:33 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:17 pm

Who’s your closest mates? Are they all straight males? Yup thought so.
Quite the capacity for presumption. I can’t speak for Vegas, but I’m a straight male and yet some of my closest friends are gay males- in fact some of my closest mates are FEMALES! You’ll have to think again :?

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 16, 2022 7:33 pm

Indecisive wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:17 pm
I think we as fans need to actually be a bit braver too now. Start to self police a bit more and make the morons who feel the need to shout homophonic (or racist) abuse feel completely ostracised from the majority of us. Call them out, report them, challenge them and shout them down. We should be doing that en masse, whether it’s in the ground or on the message boards.

The nazi salutes the other day was horrendous and brought shame on all Burnley fans. None of us want to be associated with these cretins.

When people say individuals shouldn’t have to ‘come out’. In most cases it’s not a case of a grand coming out… it’s more finding the confidence to live their lives out in the open and feel accepted. Footballers currently know the minute they walk down the street holding a boyfriends hand it would cause a huge furore and be all over the papers. This lad is brave and confident enough to take a stand and be himself and break a stigma that I think 99% of us agree shouldn’t be there. Anyone who isn’t a 100% behind his actions are part of the problem, and should be ashamed.
This is the best post on this thread, and if the majority can start finding the confidence to call out any type of abuse, and know that their complaint will be firmly dealt with and not swept under the carpet, then we might finally rid the game and hopefully society of these prejudices which sadly still exist even in this era.

2 Burnley fans were arrested for their actions yesterday out of a travelling support of thousands I'm guessing, yet it's these boneheads who'll get all the headlines, and therefore bring the club's name into the mud as well as their fellow supporters.
These 2 users liked this post: Vegas Claret BabylonClaret

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Being Gay

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:34 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:17 pm
I never said a player of any team would be giving them grief at all, just said that they may not have the same camaraderie.

Who’s your closest mates? Are they all straight males? Yup thought so.

Football is different than the average job. These lads are going away sharing hotels and transport together. Pro sports is totally unique in that regard.


It’s not ‘caveman thoughts’ it’s reality.

Watch any UndrTheCosh podcast and that’s what it is.
I would say I have 7 closest mates of which 3 are openly gay, one of whom comes to Vegas and stays with me and the mrs every couple of years. A huge amount of the people I've worked with in the music industry are gay. All the cabin crew lads I know are gay.

I've watched all the Underthecosh podcasts, they are excellent.

So you are incredibly wide of the mark with your thoughts

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:35 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
Don't think of this in terms of a person coming out for your sake or mine, but rather for their own sake. Let me elaborate on that. I know this is a big post but please do read it if you're sincere in asking the question above because I'm fairly certain my answer is right.

I'm straight, so my own sexuality, like that of most other people, coheres with the assumptions that are made about me by default. In a lot of places and social situations people generally are assumed to be straight until stated otherwise. Draw on your own experiences you've had with your lad mates throughout your life (going right back to school), the conversations and comments you've made and heard, for example, about the attractiveness of a particularly good looking woman, and notice the assumptions underlying those conversations and comments that by default assume the heterosexuality of every person in the group. If you want an example of an assumption being made, I'm doing it right now by assuming you are a man. These assumptions are almost always harmless, and made through little fault of the person making the assumption. It's perfectly normal human psychology to make assumptions about our environment, including the people in it. Our brains would be over-worked to doubt every sensory experience or piece of information received in the mind. Our propensity to assume things is selected for by evolution. It helps streamline thought, it makes thinking more efficient, but it comes with some small drawbacks from time to time.

I can't know what it feels like to be closeted or to come out, but if I try to empathise then I can envision it being far, far more relaxing to be around folk who aren't making incorrect assumptions about my very essence. This is one reason why a person would come out. Another reason, as it appears to me, is more significant — that is, to have total control over what people know and do not know about you. In the case of those remotely in the public eye, there's the possibility of being outed by someone with malicious intent, or by someone careless or clumsy with that piece of information etc. I can't imaging what it would feel like to be outed against my will, especially in environments and industries that have more macho (which is to say, tacitly homophobic) cultures. And so the reason why a gay person would come out publicly is to assume ownership and control over the way people find this out. It's about one's own power and privacy, and not yielding it or losing it to others.

A person coming out is not necessarily for our benefit, at least not primarily; it's about a gay person's own agency. We straight folk don't experience this agency being taken from us, because like I said above, our assumed and actual sexuality is aligned. We don't know what it feels like to have another person take control over what people know about us, nor can we know the day-to-day anxiety over having this power snatched from us.
This. This. This.

Could we pin this at the top of this thread at all?

Indecisive
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 8:21 pm
Been Liked: 394 times
Has Liked: 68 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by Indecisive » Mon May 16, 2022 7:36 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
Don't think of this in terms of a person coming out for your sake or mine, but rather for their own sake. Let me elaborate on that. I know this is a big post but please do read it if you're sincere in asking the question above because I'm fairly certain my answer is right.

I'm straight, so my own sexuality, like that of most other people, coheres with the assumptions that are made about me by default. In a lot of places and social situations people generally are assumed to be straight until stated otherwise. Draw on your own experiences you've had with your lad mates throughout your life (going right back to school), the conversations and comments you've made and heard, for example, about the attractiveness of a particularly good looking woman, and notice the assumptions underlying those conversations and comments that by default assume the heterosexuality of every person in the group. If you want an example of an assumption being made, I'm doing it right now by assuming you are a man. These assumptions are almost always harmless, and made through little fault of the person making the assumption. It's perfectly normal human psychology to make assumptions about our environment, including the people in it. Our brains would be over-worked to doubt every sensory experience or piece of information received in the mind. Our propensity to assume things is selected for by evolution. It helps streamline thought, it makes thinking more efficient, but it comes with some small drawbacks from time to time.

I can't know what it feels like to be closeted or to come out, but if I try to empathise then I can envision it being far, far more relaxing to be around folk who aren't making incorrect assumptions about my very essence. This is one reason why a person would come out. Another reason, as it appears to me, is more significant — that is, to have total control over what people know and do not know about you. In the case of those remotely in the public eye, there's the possibility of being outed by someone with malicious intent, or by someone careless or clumsy with that piece of information etc. I can't imaging what it would feel like to be outed against my will, especially in environments and industries that have more macho (which is to say, tacitly homophobic) cultures. And so the reason why a gay person would come out publicly is to assume ownership and control over the way people find this out. It's about one's own power and privacy, and not yielding it or losing it to others.

A person coming out is not necessarily for our benefit, at least not primarily; it's about a gay person's own agency. We straight folk don't experience this agency being taken from us, because like I said above, our assumed and actual sexuality is aligned. We don't know what it feels like to have another person take control over what people know about us, nor can we know the day-to-day anxiety over having this power snatched from us.
Great post.

Unfortunately the people who really need to absorb and understand this post… likely can’t, or rather won’t.

Milltown1882
Posts: 3063
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:47 pm
Been Liked: 1102 times
Has Liked: 854 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by Milltown1882 » Mon May 16, 2022 7:36 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
Don't think of this in terms of a person coming out for your sake or mine, but rather for their own sake. Let me elaborate on that. I know this is a big post but please do read it if you're sincere in asking the question above because I'm fairly certain my answer is right.

I'm straight, so my own sexuality, like that of most other people, coheres with the assumptions that are made about me by default. In a lot of places and social situations people generally are assumed to be straight until stated otherwise. Draw on your own experiences you've had with your lad mates throughout your life (going right back to school), the conversations and comments you've made and heard, for example, about the attractiveness of a particularly good looking woman, and notice the assumptions underlying those conversations and comments that by default assume the heterosexuality of every person in the group. If you want an example of an assumption being made, I'm doing it right now by assuming you are a man. These assumptions are almost always harmless, and made through little fault of the person making the assumption. It's perfectly normal human psychology to make assumptions about our environment, including the people in it. Our brains would be over-worked to doubt every sensory experience or piece of information received in the mind. Our propensity to assume things is selected for by evolution. It helps streamline thought, it makes thinking more efficient, but it comes with some small drawbacks from time to time.

I can't know what it feels like to be closeted or to come out, but if I try to empathise then I can envision it being far, far more relaxing to be around folk who aren't making incorrect assumptions about my very essence. This is one reason why a person would come out. Another reason, as it appears to me, is more significant — that is, to have total control over what people know and do not know about you. In the case of those remotely in the public eye, there's the possibility of being outed by someone with malicious intent, or by someone careless or clumsy with that piece of information etc. I can't imaging what it would feel like to be outed against my will, especially in environments and industries that have more macho (which is to say, tacitly homophobic) cultures. And so the reason why a gay person would come out publicly is to assume ownership and control over the way people find this out. It's about one's own power and privacy, and not yielding it or losing it to others.

A person coming out is not necessarily for our benefit, at least not primarily; it's about a gay person's own agency. We straight folk don't experience this agency being taken from us, because like I said above, our assumed and actual sexuality is aligned. We don't know what it feels like to have another person take control over what people know about us, nor can we know the day-to-day anxiety over having this power snatched from us.
The most pure, rational and best post I’ve ever seen on this forum.
This user liked this post: wilks_bfc

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:38 pm

Bravo Spiral. That was simply awesome
Last edited by BabylonClaret on Mon May 16, 2022 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This user liked this post: evensteadiereddie

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Being Gay

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:38 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
Don't think of this in terms of a person coming out for your sake or mine, but rather for their own sake. Let me elaborate on that. I know this is a big post but please do read it if you're sincere in asking the question above because I'm fairly certain my answer is right.

I'm straight, so my own sexuality, like that of most other people, coheres with the assumptions that are made about me by default. In a lot of places and social situations people generally are assumed to be straight until stated otherwise. Draw on your own experiences you've had with your lad mates throughout your life (going right back to school), the conversations and comments you've made and heard, for example, about the attractiveness of a particularly good looking woman, and notice the assumptions underlying those conversations and comments that by default assume the heterosexuality of every person in the group. If you want an example of an assumption being made, I'm doing it right now by assuming you are a man. These assumptions are almost always harmless, and made through little fault of the person making the assumption. It's perfectly normal human psychology to make assumptions about our environment, including the people in it. Our brains would be over-worked to doubt every sensory experience or piece of information received in the mind. Our propensity to assume things is selected for by evolution. It helps streamline thought, it makes thinking more efficient, but it comes with some small drawbacks from time to time.

I can't know what it feels like to be closeted or to come out, but if I try to empathise then I can envision it being far, far more relaxing to be around folk who aren't making incorrect assumptions about my very essence. This is one reason why a person would come out. Another reason, as it appears to me, is more significant — that is, to have total control over what people know and do not know about you. In the case of those remotely in the public eye, there's the possibility of being outed by someone with malicious intent, or by someone careless or clumsy with that piece of information etc. I can't imaging what it would feel like to be outed against my will, especially in environments and industries that have more macho (which is to say, tacitly homophobic) cultures. And so the reason why a gay person would come out publicly is to assume ownership and control over the way people find this out. It's about one's own power and privacy, and not yielding it or losing it to others.

A person coming out is not necessarily for our benefit, at least not primarily; it's about a gay person's own agency. We straight folk don't experience this agency being taken from us, because like I said above, our assumed and actual sexuality is aligned. We don't know what it feels like to have another person take control over what people know about us, nor can we know the day-to-day anxiety over having this power snatched from us.
Possibly the best post on this board (Ok, not a great barometer but still!)

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:40 pm

what Gary said
Attachments
Screenshot 2022-05-16 11.39.38 AM.png
Screenshot 2022-05-16 11.39.38 AM.png (64.6 KiB) Viewed 1053 times
These 2 users liked this post: evensteadiereddie boatshed bill

Indecisive
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 8:21 pm
Been Liked: 394 times
Has Liked: 68 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Indecisive » Mon May 16, 2022 7:46 pm

Personally would like to see spirals post above posted as a story on this website. It’s such a great and considered response that really explains why this is significant.

Think it should be read by as many people as possible, and if it only gets a couple to rethink, it would be worth it.
This user liked this post: Falcon

bfcjg
Posts: 13155
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6718 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by bfcjg » Mon May 16, 2022 7:46 pm

Just watched his interview on Sky, seems like a really intelligent, well grounded young man of whom you'd be proud to have as a mate or a son.
This user liked this post: Indecisive

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:52 pm

Beagle wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:33 pm
Quite the capacity for presumption. I can’t speak for Vegas, but I’m a straight male and yet some of my closest friends are gay males- in fact some of my closest mates are FEMALES! You’ll have to think again :?
Fair enough.

I’m talking about on the whole (No pun intended).

For anyone reading - cast your mind back to being 16-35 say or if you’re in that age range do oblige.

Would you discuss the same topics with a gay man/friend as you would a straight man/friend or a woman friend?

Genuinely curious, I think peoples behaviour will differ to each individual person and in different environments.

Just as I don’t think a gay man would be as open about their lifestyle to a straight man as they would like a girlfriend.

Nothing wrong with it per say, just not trying to deny reality.

Also not saying that would somehow make for a ‘worse’ dressing room

jos
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:02 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 294 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by jos » Mon May 16, 2022 7:53 pm

Much of the youth of today are used to and accept the LBGT community as a natural part of life, it tends to be the older generation that struggles with it.

I’m pleased for Jake, let’s hope this gives other footballers the incentive to live their true self too.

ClaretTony
Posts: 67429
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5255 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 16, 2022 7:55 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:26 pm
Wild accusations?

His posts stayed up, while ones criticising him did not

Guess it must have been the usual one whenever Jakub posts eh?
I wasn’t on the board yesterday but I did see that one of yours was removed because of your choice of appalling language.

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:55 pm

I'm genuinely curious here CC why do you think being gay changes the relationship you have with friends?

Your post is full of assumptions and whilst I agree behaviour can be different t in different situations (the classic not swearing in front of your mum) I'm not sure it's the sexuality of someone that really changes the behaviour?

And you literally said that the dressing room would be not the same

JarrowClaret
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:04 pm
Been Liked: 341 times
Has Liked: 194 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by JarrowClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 7:59 pm

claretburns wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:07 pm
Totally agree, my brave sentiments are not from the fact he is being himself, but more towards the potential abuse he may get from idiots on social media and within stadiums when playing. Plus being 17 years old and now having such a media whirlwind around him, it is a brave step which he has taken in that sense.
Yeh that was my point really he shouldn’t need to be “BRAVE” nobody Should care about his sexuality. I agree that he has been extremely brave to come out at such a young age though.

I served in the Army when gays were banned and also when they weren’t there were some concerned voices when it was announced that they were no longer banned. You know what it didn’t make the slightest difference for the most part they were/ are accepted for what they are. There were a few idiots but there always are that is society sadly as long as them voices are ignored, proved wrong/ embarrassed it was okay.

Darnhill Claret
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:55 pm
Been Liked: 498 times
Has Liked: 992 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Darnhill Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:00 pm

Cool Claret I’m guessing is not a city dweller. His opinion, although a little behind the times is still relevant and to be respected as he speaks as he finds. Hopefully people continue to be more open minded as they journey through life.

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:01 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:30 pm
Why is it? I have quite a lot of gay friends
This isn’t about n=1 circumstances I’m just talking about the vast majority of the public.

You go out during the day to a city, you see a group of guys on the beer I guarantee the absolute vast majority are straight lads all together and then you’ll see some groups of girls with gay male friends as part of their group.

Obviously there’s many more differing variations of groups im just talking for the most part.

RicardoMontalban
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
Been Liked: 288 times
Has Liked: 310 times

Re: Being Gay

Post by RicardoMontalban » Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 6:48 pm
I’m not really sure why anyone needs to know. I suppose if it makes that person feel better or they want to seek approval fair enough. It does seem a bit a bit like making a grand announcement that you are Vegan or something. Why does anyone need to know if someone is heterosexual, bisexual or trans ? It shouldn’t be anyone else’s business. I don’t need to know or want to know if our footballers are gay or something else I couldn’t care less and just want them to be good at football.
Perhaps they just wish to be able to live without the burden of who they really are being hidden. Nobody’s announcing they’re heterosexual because it’s assumed as such, because that’s how society sees it.

There’s a difference between someone’s identity, which includes sexuality, and what they do with it.

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:00 pm
Cool Claret I’m guessing is not a city dweller. His opinion, although a little behind the times is still relevant and to be respected as he speaks as he finds. Hopefully people continue to be more open minded as they journey through life.
A straight couple is getting married - do you think your more likely to see a gay man on the stag do or hen do?

Again, just to emphasise, I genuinely could not give a ******** what people get up to in their spare time (as long as it doesn’t infringe on another’s liberty/use someone as a means to an end) but I’m also not going to deny reality.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 16, 2022 8:04 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:55 pm
I'm genuinely curious here CC why do you think being gay changes the relationship you have with friends?

Your post is full of assumptions and whilst I agree behaviour can be different t in different situations (the classic not swearing in front of your mum) I'm not sure it's the sexuality of someone that really changes the behaviour?

And you literally said that the dressing room would be not the same
It generally doesn't change much, apart from maybe the sexual stuff.
Other than that we're all the same people, same hopes, dreams, fears etc

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:08 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:55 pm
I'm genuinely curious here CC why do you think being gay changes the relationship you have with friends?
Cast back to being 21 or whatever.

Lads are acting bravado swinging their dicks to see who’s the ‘alpha’ , there’s of course the bullshitters that are full of it etc talking about ‘birds’ and all the stuff you do at that age - ‘locker room talk’ and stuff, I just don’t think that a gay bloke would join in with that, nor would a woman.

Just like a bloke wouldn’t fit in when women are chatting about girl stuff, nor would they want to.

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:09 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:04 pm
It generally doesn't change much, apart from maybe the sexual stuff.
Other than that we're all the same people, same hopes, dreams, fears etc
Absolutely, but, in a male environment filled full of fit healthy young fellas that are doing well for themselves, what do you thinks going to be a huge topic of conversation?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 16, 2022 8:11 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:08 pm
Cast back to being 21 or whatever.

Lads are acting bravado swinging their dicks to see who’s the ‘alpha’ , there’s of course the bullshitters that are full of it etc talking about ‘birds’ and all the stuff you do at that age - ‘locker room talk’ and stuff, I just don’t think that a gay bloke would join in with that, nor would a woman.

Just like a bloke wouldn’t fit in when women are chatting about girl stuff, nor would they want to.
Back to 21?
So 2001, Section/Clause 28 was still in force, gay marriages weren't a thing and homophobia was rife and accepted.

It was a whole different world then, to now

BabylonClaret
Posts: 3077
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
Been Liked: 707 times
Has Liked: 618 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by BabylonClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:13 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 pm
A straight couple is getting married - do you think your more likely to see a gay man on the stag do or hen do?

Again, just to emphasise, I genuinely could not give a ******** what people get up to in their spare time (as long as it doesn’t infringe on another’s liberty/use someone as a means to an end) but I’m also not going to deny reality.
Well it would rather depend. I kinda assume if he's the groom's friend he would be on the stag?

Why do you think it would be otherwise?

Seriously. Think about why. Question it.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 16, 2022 8:13 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:09 pm
Absolutely, but, in a male environment filled full of fit healthy young fellas that are doing well for themselves, what do you thinks going to be a huge topic of conversation?
It's going to depend on the men let's be honest.

As per my other comment, when I was 21 is very different to life for 21yr olds now.
Yes there will be groups of straight lads trying to out do each other in the who's the biggest alpha male stakes, but they're also more likely to know someone who's gay, Bi, trans etc so they may take that into consideration depending on their social circle

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon May 16, 2022 8:14 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 5:57 pm
I think you should just have the confidence to be your true self DA ;)
I thought I was already being a complete tw*t most of the time ;)
These 2 users liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81 NewClaret

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:16 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:13 pm
Well it would rather depend. I kinda assume if he's the groom's friend he would be on the stag?

Why do you think it would be otherwise?

Seriously. Think about why. Question it.
Because gay men tend to forge closer friendships with straight women than they do straight men.

Come on, everyone knows this.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 16, 2022 8:18 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:16 pm
Because gay men tend to forge closer friendships with straight women than they do straight men.

Come on, everyone knows this.
That's because the women feel safer around the gay men and vice versa.

Another sad indictment of our society.

CoolClaret
Posts: 7122
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2046 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:18 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 8:13 pm
It's going to depend on the men let's be honest.

As per my other comment, when I was 21 is very different to life for 21yr olds now.
Yes there will be groups of straight lads trying to out do each other in the who's the biggest alpha male stakes, but they're also more likely to know someone who's gay, Bi, trans etc so they may take that into consideration depending on their social circle
There was gay men in my sixth form - a good one as well (g Clitheroe) when I attended around 2010.

Still the same, boys being boys. It’s just how it is

Darnhill Claret
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:55 pm
Been Liked: 498 times
Has Liked: 992 times

Re: Jake Daniels of Blackpool FC

Post by Darnhill Claret » Mon May 16, 2022 8:18 pm

Cool Claret, If I had a stag do, I would expect my gay friends to come on the stag do. If my intended had male gay friends they would be welcome on my do, or if they preferred to go on the hen do, that would be ok too. It might just be decided how effeminate/artistic they might be but my gay friends wouldn’t feel that their sexuality would deny them an invitation. Any straight friend who didn’t want my gay friends there wouldn’t be invited. Hope that helps. Your reality and my reality seem very different.
These 2 users liked this post: jos wilks_bfc

Post Reply