UFO's Hearing in the US today

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KateR
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UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by KateR » Tue May 17, 2022 1:50 pm

The first public congressional hearing into UFO sightings in the US in over 50 years is being held on today.

Is anyone remotely interested, do you think there will be startling revelations and conclusive proof "we are not alone"?

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 17, 2022 2:14 pm

I think a lot of the alleged sightings can be explained one way or another

Those who claim they've been abducted and/or probed aren't quite the full shilling in my opinion.

I'm not sure there will be any startling revelations.

I don't think we're alone in the universe, the size of it suggests that would be unlikely.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by brexit » Tue May 17, 2022 2:50 pm

They rejected bernie marsden for Schenker - definitely needs to be investigated
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by brexit » Tue May 17, 2022 3:00 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:14 pm
I think a lot of the alleged sightings can be explained one way or another

Those who claim they've been abducted and/or probed aren't quite the full shilling in my opinion.

I'm not sure there will be any startling revelations.

I don't think we're alone in the universe, the size of it suggests that would be unlikely.
Fermi Paradox

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by tarkys_ears » Tue May 17, 2022 3:05 pm

We are definitely alone.

If you.take.the Goldilocks theory on the big bang, how could anything else create life as we know it?

UFOs in this regard will always certainly be military

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by Hipper » Tue May 17, 2022 3:07 pm

The question is not so much is there other life in the universe (the odds are there is), and has it evolved in a similar way to ours (maybe) but will we ever be in contact with them. I think not.

When you note that we have only been in space for sixty years but it's taken 4.5 billion years for us to evolve to this level on this planet. Then also look at all the unexpected interventions that have occurred to shape our evolution - collision with another planet to give us the moon; the various mass extinctions, including the dinosaurs from a wayward meteor; and now our own self destruction with climate change - it shows how precarious our existence is.

If you are of a mathematical bent you might investigate this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

Anyway I understand from the news that we are looking at Mars this week!

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 17, 2022 4:13 pm


Pearcey
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by Pearcey » Tue May 17, 2022 4:17 pm

I remember one of the pilots on my Jaguar squadron coming back after a night flying sortie quite rattled after seeing lights in the sky that he couldn’t explain.
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timshorts
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by timshorts » Tue May 17, 2022 7:45 pm

brexit wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:50 pm
They rejected bernie marsden for Schenker - definitely needs to be investigated
Image
Schenker has aged better than the rest of the band looking at that photo.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 17, 2022 10:41 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:50 pm
The first public congressional hearing into UFO sightings in the US in over 50 years is being held on today.

Is anyone remotely interested, do you think there will be startling revelations and conclusive proof "we are not alone"?
I saw a clip where they stated they have had 11 near misses with UFOs

Certainly interesting to hear that.
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by bfcjg » Tue May 17, 2022 10:50 pm

I.just think they are advanced military or civil aviation technological developments with high ranking knowledge about them that won't be shared until they are ready to be released. These hypersonic missiles being a casing point.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by dsr » Wed May 18, 2022 12:52 am

They reckon there are about 200 billion trillion stars in the universe, and about 2,000 of them are within 50 light years of earth. (50 light years is the point where you could send a radio message and get the answer 100 years later, so not ideal for conversation.)

Was Einstein right about the speed of light being the theoretical maximum? Because if so, these umpty gazillion stars are almost all far too far away for a spaceship to get here even if physical matter can travel close to the speed of light. If aliens exist, they are most likely so far away as to be irrelevant.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by Spiral » Wed May 18, 2022 12:54 am

UFO doesn't mean alien, it just means something that can't be definitively identified. A birthday balloon is a UFO if it's in the air and can't be identified with the information at hand as being a balloon. And as bfcjg mentions above, there's a difference between actually not being able to identify something, and for politically and militarily sensitive reasons telling porkies that you're not able to identify something.

But on the subject of other "life" in the universe (you'll understand why I've put that in quotation marks by the end of this mammoth post), and in response to the fermi paradox mentioned above, the 'dark forest' theory is an interesting idea. The fermi paradox, for those who don't know, asks why, for the abundance of materials and conditions in the universe conducive to life, have we not found it? Some mild thematic spoilers for Cixin Liu's Three-Body Problem trilogy ahead. I'll stay away from outright plot spoilers, but some of the concepts in the book will be discussed. You've been warned. From the book of the same name, the theory of the 'dark forest' argues that the universe is like a forest full of stealthy hunters, each treading carefully so as not to be detected by other hunters, each planetary/interplanetary/galactic/intergalactic civilisation being a hunter. Earth, and everyone on it, meaning human beings taken as a monolithic civilisation, are one hunter. Some other alien race/civilisation is another, and so on. The idea is that there's an impossibility for trust to happen between civilisations aware of each other but not yet in contact, and so to preserve itself any given civilisation must pre-emptively destroy any other it detects on the assumption that it presents a potential threat to its own survival. The theory then goes that rather than attack, potentially revealing itself to another third civilisation in the process, further inviting its own destruction, it is in the interest of each and every civilisation not to be detected at all, and without going into more spoilers from the book, each will independently arrive at the conclusion that its survival is best achieved by using its technologies to hide itself from detection from all other civilisations. Hence, a potential answer to the fermi paradox: there exists all over the universe civilisations which do not want to be detected at all, using hyper-advanced technology to avoid detection.

It's very cool. The books are great. They develop the theory in far greater detail than I've described. It's sci-fi, but if you look online in the right circles people are really engaged with this theory beyond its use in the books themselves. Now for a bit of literary criticism. Not a criticism of the books, which are great, but an engagement with the ideas in the books. The problem I have with the theory is that the "axioms of cosmic sociology" (something from the book series, basically the assumptions made about how civilisations work and think and act to preserve themselves, which form the basis of the theory) are all very anthropocentric. This is human paranoia (and in a larger sense, an instinct common in many other lifeforms which have also evolved on earth under earth's material conditions) projected onto alien forms of life — assuming we even recognise them as forms of life — which not only are not-human, but also evolved distant, separate, in isolation from the material conditions of earth, with nature and so-called motives we cannot conceive of.

Concepts such as survival; need; motive; danger; growth; expansion; civilisation itself; the very concept of finity as being something of material importance; perception of time and of space, they are all embedded in our own modes of thought which are a product of evolution within a closed system (earth). We literally can't escape that way of thinking. We're restricted by our modes of thought, in our modes of though, and will be stuck there until said modes of thought further evolve biologically, or until a force from our environment acting on consciousness, including the force of consciousness itself in the form of inspiration, experimentation, discovery, or observation affects our modes of though.

The patterns of cognition that enable us to consider concepts like trust; fear; self-interest; destruction...even the concept of "life", they all have developed in biological machines (brains) which evolved on earth, isolated from any other evolutionary systems which might plausibly have produced self-reproducing machines which may either have no understanding of those concepts and ideas; have no need for those ideas; may have transcended those ideas (assuming they ever had them), or may even have no frame of reference to even conceptualise the very notion of "thinking", of an "idea" itself. If there's the possibility that the concept of an "idea" itself is limited to and restricted by human subjectivity, then so too is it possible that "life" as we understand it as a concept is restricted by human subjectivity, for "life" is an arbitrary way of describing systems determined by cause and effect based on arbitrary criteria chosen by humans. Putting the semantics of the word "idea" aside, our very idea of an "idea", of a "concept", is conceptualised as far as we can tell by human beings alone, as an emergent property of the human mind. It's a baseless conjecture that other lifeforms even "think" or have "ideas", and so to assert something — anything — as an axiom in a way which binds the nature of other alien lifeforms to the assumptions found in the axiom is to erroneously project aspects of human psychology onto those lifeforms. My thesis is this: In this sense the dark forest theory can be viewed as more of a literary human tragedy than a theory in answer to the fermi paradox. The theory tells us more about human conceit than it does the universe. I've never heard the dark forest theory critiqued in this way. This is my own idea. I'm quite excited by my interpretation, if you don't mind me saying! If you've read the books and like them and talk to others about them then feel free to share this interpretation around whenever you're discussing them with anyone. You can even copy and paste this post if you like!

To elaborate a bit more, an axiom, by its nature, concedes the subjectivity of what is stated by making assumptions — not statements — which can only ever be considered universal; they are agreed upon by consensus and cannot be proven as such. An axiom doesn't prove the universality of things. It's nothing more than a flimsy piece of language used by human beings bound by the subjectivity they hold in common with one another. Even if we're being charitable by assuming other lifeforms "think" (as we understand and use the word), there's no reason at all that our modes of thought couldn't be thought of by other lifeforms as primitive. But I'd rather not think in those terms, because for us to assume they "think" is a projection of our own thoughts. The axioms underpinning the dark forest theory assume not only that all lifeforms think the way we do, but also, more pertinently, that they even "think" at all. That's obviously a huge hole in the theory of the dark forest, but if you can get over the flaws in the anthropocentric assumptions of the theory, it's an absolutely fantastic literary/plot device, and the books are well worth your time.
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by distortiondave » Wed May 18, 2022 8:24 am

brexit wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:50 pm
They rejected bernie marsden for Schenker - definitely needs to be investigated
Image
Phill Mogg looks like Vladimir Putin in disguise.

KateR
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by KateR » Wed May 18, 2022 3:08 pm

As a follow up, this was noted:
"During the hearing at the House Intelligence Counterterrorism, Counterintelligence, and Counterproliferation Subcommittee, top Pentagon intelligence official Ronald Moultrie said that through "rigorous" analysis, most - but not all - UAPs can be identified.

"Any object we encounter can likely be isolated, characterised, identified and, if necessary, mitigated," Mr Moultrie said.

A small number of incidents, however, still have no explanation. In one such incident in 2004, fighter pilots operating from an aircraft carrier in the Pacific encountered an object that seemed to have descended tens of thousands of feet before stopping and hovering.

In another incident, shown publicly for the first time on Tuesday, an object can be seen on camera flying past a US Navy fighter jet. The object remains unexplained.

"There are a small handful [of events] in which there are flight characteristics or signature management that we can't explain with the data we have available," said Scott Bray, the deputy director of naval intelligence. "Those are obviously the ones that are of most interest to us."

Mr Bray also sought to dispel the notion that UAPs might be extraterrestrial aliens, noting that no organic or inorganic material or unexplainable wreckage has ever been recovered, and no attempts have been made at communicating with the objects.

"We have detected no eliminations within the UAP task force that...would suggest it's anything non-terrestrial in origin," he said".


As expected we don't really know anymore than before the hearing but some unexplained sighting from credible witness remain, keeping the alien conspiracy theory alive and kicking, just for a thought I have around this. If these unexplained objects can move beyond anything the US could manufacturer, then it's highly doubtful any other country/company etc. on earth could have produced it! Facts stranger than fiction perhaps?

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by chekhov » Wed May 18, 2022 3:44 pm

Spiral wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:54 am
Did you just write all that? You must be a seriously good typer.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by Spiral » Wed May 18, 2022 5:20 pm

chekhov wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 3:44 pm
Did you just write all that? You must be a seriously good typer.
Yup. Every word and thought typed out is my own. Enjoyed writing it, to be fair. I love reading scholarly criticism of art and media that delves deeper into themes, subtext, the philosophies at work etc than you get from mainstream reviews. This was just my attempt at offering something to the thread which I thought might be interesting!
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by chekhov » Wed May 18, 2022 5:27 pm

Spiral wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 5:20 pm
Yup. Every word and thought typed out is my own. Enjoyed writing it, to be fair. I love reading scholarly criticism of art and media that delves deeper into themes, subtext, the philosophies at work etc than you get from mainstream reviews. This was just my attempt at offering something to the thread which I thought might be interesting!
I admire that capacity to transfer thoughts into writing in a coherent way. It helps if you can type at a reasonable pace. All of this is something I struggle with although my head does come up with some stunning arguments. Unfortunately nobody ever gets to hear about them.

daveyclaret
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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by daveyclaret » Wed May 18, 2022 7:35 pm

I'm extremely dubious about the existence of alien flying saucers and space ships flying around the Earth and of the 'reported sightings' of these.

The obvious question to me is why don't the alien saucers and space ships land on Earth rather than just fly around it and mainly fly around at night under cover of darkness. If, seemingly, the aliens have travelled millions of miles or light years to get to Earth then why don't they land and make contact with Earthlings rather than remaining anonymous.

As space is infinite, I'm of the view that there could other forms of life out there but the enormous distances to be travelled in space and the availability of suitable transportation to do this has likely prevented us and other forms of life to meet.

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed May 18, 2022 7:40 pm

I've been enjoying watching old Red Dwarfs recently. Anything is possible!

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Re: UFO's Hearing in the US today

Post by timshorts » Wed May 18, 2022 9:19 pm

They don't need to land. They can transport beam themselves down to this planet like captain kirk
The hard part, once they've cloned themselves into human bodies is to find jobs where their lack of understanding and problems with balance don't immediately give them away.

So far, "Everton right winger" has been a bit of a stretch, but they've been right at home with "VAR asessor" save for their colourblindness making anybody wearing red merge into the grass.

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