ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

[Chester Perry]

BFC is everyone’s football club, but it is also true it’s a business and I do feel on the whole ALK are running that business in a manner that is driving BFC forward from a pretty stagnant starting point.

The end of that sentence is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen on this site - if you think the almost 8 years of the Garlick/Dyche contribution to moving this club forward amounts to what you are saying you are either ignorant, not paying attention or (as I suspect) trying to put credit at the door of VSL for work that has gone on before, investment in that period was huge for a club of our limited finances, investment that was also done with a thought to longer term sustainability. It has provided the very solid foundation (and finance) for what ever VSL may seek to do including meeting their commitments to the takeover.

If VSL prove to move the club as far forward as the previous administration in a similar timeframe I will be happy to congratulate them, they have got off to a shaky start and are still failing in their primary aim of attracting major new investors - I believe they thought/planned they would have the first of those on board at least last summer if not earlier in their original business plan.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Do we have to have an academy? What would happen if we just shelved all the youth set up? It must be running at a loss and very few make the first team so what is the point?

An academy is required for entry to European competition, CT mentioned this recently because Brentford don't have one so if they did an us next season and finished in a qualifying spot then they can't take it.

It also allows us to develop players for sale to lower league clubs, same as City, Chelsea and numerous other clubs
Just because they may not be good enough for us, there are other clubs willing to buy them at the right price.
An academy doesn't have to cost much if players from there are regularly being sold to cover academy running costs.

It should also pop out better quality players like McNeil for the first team
If we were to get relegated and the academy was producing players of a good standard then they'd possibly provide useful in the championship, Rovers have found theirs important to them in recent years I believe.

[groove]

An academy is required for entry to European competition, CT mentioned this recently because Brentford don't have one so if they did an us next season and finished in a qualifying spot then they can't take it.

It also allows us to develop players for sale to lower league clubs, same as City, Chelsea and numerous other clubs
Just because they may not be good enough for us, there are other clubs willing to buy them at the right price.
An academy doesn't have to cost much if players from there are regularly being sold to cover academy running costs.

It should also pop out better quality players like McNeil for the first team
If we were to get relegated and the academy was producing players of a good standard then they'd possibly provide useful in the championship, Rovers have found theirs important to them in recent years I believe.

Good points mate. Thanks for the reply.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Lots of opinions when no one knows the issue yet, ALK have started running Burnley FC like most good businesses by investing in training, succession planning, exploring & sourcing from new markets, infrastructure & cutting non value expenditure. Yes it’s a football club but it needs to be run like a business first. Far too much I know better than you do on topics like this as always, it’s change & difficult for some but get used to it as there will be plenty more in the short & long term.

[aggi]

Do we have to have an academy? What would happen if we just shelved all the youth set up? It must be running at a loss and very few make the first team so what is the point?

I suspect it's probably paying for itself. Setting aside it being useful to have bench fillers from the academy we're also selling the odd player here and there, like Dunne and Benson, for ok fees.

Players breaking fully into the first team or going for big fees will be the exception, it's the steady conveyor belt of smaller fees that will keep it going.

[ecc]

Hi GodIsADeeJay81,

You make some good points and you've made me aware of something namely clubs wishing to enter European competitions require an academy.

I think it's one thing to hope for us to produce lads for the PL and another for the Championship. It would be interesting to see just how many clubs outside of the usual suspects (the would-be ESL clubs) produce a sizable number of lads who actually make it in the PL.

The likes of Richardson (if the poor lad could be rid of injuries), Dodgson, Mellon, Helm etc. could potentially feature in the Championship. I say "potentially" because it really isn't a precise science.

[dandeclaret]

The end of that sentence is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen on this site - if you think the almost 8 years of the Garlick/Dyche contribution to moving this club forward amounts to what you are saying you are either ignorant, not paying attention or (as I suspect) trying to put credit at the door of VSL for work that has gone on before, investment in that period was huge for a club of our limited finances, investment that was also done with a thought to longer term sustainability. It has provided the very solid foundation (and finance) for what ever VSL may seek to do including meeting their commitments to the takeover.

If VSL prove to move the club as far forward as the previous administration in a similar timeframe I will be happy to congratulate them, they have got off to a shaky start and are still failing in their primary aim of attracting major new investors - I believe they thought/planned they would have the first of those on board at least last summer if not earlier in their original business plan.

Spot on Chester....

[blake's wand]

I think an Academy is incredibly important, but gone are the days when it is expected to produce first team players - especially in the Premier League. Don't have the stats, but I would imagine there are a very small number of truly 'home grown' players playing for their prem clubs.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think an Academy is incredibly important, but gone are the days when it is expected to produce first team players - especially in the Premier League. Don't have the stats, but I would imagine there are a very small number of truly 'home grown' players playing for their prem clubs.

It’s actually a lot higher than you think. Burnley are currently bottom of this seasons list but the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal have there academy first team minutes close to 20% this season.

[Spijed]

Arsenal seem to produce plenty of younger players yet Spurs who are similar in size don't. Wonder why?

[dandeclaret]

Spurs produce plenty of players as well don't they? Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Japhet Tanganga, Oliver Skipp, Cameron Carter Vickers, have all played this year for the first team I think.

[claretspice]

Without knowing the details of what's gone on, I won't comment on the detail around the academy; suffice to say it's concerning and it does nothing to avoid the sense of unease that ALK really aren't able to generate/access the funding to live up to their fine words around custody. There's a pattern of substance around the club simply not living up to ambitious rhetoric and the recent accounts tell a similar tale.

What does concern me a touch though is the long, rambling and frankly rather unprofessional statement attributed to Smith in the article. It isn't the sort of slick, smart statement I'd expect of a sophisticated investor/director used to dealing with the media and is at odds with the more polished pronouncements Pace makes. It certainly doesn't reassure me at all that he's got everything under control (I understand he's the ALK man most directly involved on the football side).

[Nori1958]

Without knowing the details of what's gone on, I won't comment on the detail around the academy; suffice to say it's concerning and it does nothing to avoid the sense of unease that ALK really aren't able to generate/access the funding to live up to their fine words around custody. There's a pattern of substance around the club simply not living up to ambitious rhetoric and the recent accounts tell a similar tale.

What does concern me a touch though is the long, rambling and frankly rather unprofessional statement attributed to Smith in the article. It isn't the sort of slick, smart statement I'd expect of a sophisticated investor/director used to dealing with the media and is at odds with the more polished pronouncements Pace makes. It certainly doesn't reassure me at all that he's got everything under control (I understand he's the ALK man most directly involved on the football side).

As you say, you don't know the details.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Hi GodIsADeeJay81,

You make some good points and you've made me aware of something namely clubs wishing to enter European competitions require an academy.

I think it's one thing to hope for us to produce lads for the PL and another for the Championship. It would be interesting to see just how many clubs outside of the usual suspects (the would-be ESL clubs) produce a sizable number of lads who actually make it in the PL.

The likes of Richardson (if the poor lad could be rid of injuries), Dodgson, Mellon, Helm etc. could potentially feature in the Championship. I say "potentially" because it really isn't a precise science.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... rs-1387302

This is a good article

Very few players make it into the PL to become regulars with their original parent club.

Let's use our very own Jack Cork as an example.

Signed for Chelsea's youth academy at 9yrs old.
Signed professional contract in 06.
Went out on loan straight away to Bournemouth.
He went out in several loans for a number of years, making over 100 appearances via various clubs but not once did he appear for Chelsea's senior team, but Chelsea were getting loan fees and his wages covered for most of those loans.

Eventually sold to Saints in 2011, so 5yrs after signing his first contract for Chelsea and loan spells at 6 different clubs.

He's represented England at every level Inc a solitary appearance for the senior team.

He's had a steady career to be fair, but he wasted many years being loaned out by Chelsea.

He isn't the only one to be in that situation either.

[Blakesboots]

The end of that sentence is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen on this site - if you think the almost 8 years of the Garlick/Dyche contribution to moving this club forward amounts to what you are saying you are either ignorant, not paying attention or (as I suspect) trying to put credit at the door of VSL for work that has gone on before, investment in that period was huge for a club of our limited finances, investment that was also done with a thought to longer term sustainability. It has provided the very solid foundation (and finance) for what ever VSL may seek to do including meeting their commitments to the takeover.

If VSL prove to move the club as far forward as the previous administration in a similar timeframe I will be happy to congratulate them, they have got off to a shaky start and are still failing in their primary aim of attracting major new investors - I believe they thought/planned they would have the first of those on board at least last summer if not earlier in their original business plan.

What does stagnant mean? In this case It means that the funding/work/ and development had fallen away as the club prepared itself for a sale position.

Like others, you’re adding to my words and drawing conclusions that I haven’t offered.

[dandeclaret]

What does stagnant mean? In this case It means that the funding/work/ and development had fallen away as the club prepared itself for a sale position.

Like others, you’re adding to my words and drawing conclusions that I haven’t offered.

adjective
adjective: stagnant
having no current or flow and often having an unpleasant smell as a consequence.

Having an unpleasant smell? Maybe the club is now more stagnant than before.......

[Blakesboots]

adjective
adjective: stagnant
having no current or flow and often having an unpleasant smell as a consequence.

Having an unpleasant smell? Maybe the club is now more stagnant than before.......

If you’re using Google: Read the next entry

showing no activity; dull and sluggish

[spt_claret]

What does stagnant mean? In this case It means that the funding/work/ and development had fallen away as the club prepared itself for a sale position.

Like others, you’re adding to my words and drawing conclusions that I haven’t offered.

The sale position you are talking about was created by ALK and their leveraged buyout. You can hardly applaud them for reversing stagnation that they inflicted with their takeover methods.
Much as if the current budget impacts academy funding, then that was driven by the takeover and if ALK find new investment to plug that gap and fix things on appeal it is still a case of them fixing a problem they created. Good that it's fixed, but the concern is it went wrong in the first place.

[Blakesboots]

As mentioned previously, we all need to wait until the due process has been followed. There’s a high chance nothing further other than the outcome will be communicated to the fans.

Frustrating, but it’s the nature of the beast. These are peoples lives and careers and we owe them privacy.

The majority of business stagnate as they approach sale. The outgoing don’t want to spend money that can go in their pockets.

[Chester Perry]

What does stagnant mean? In this case It means that the funding/work/ and development had fallen away as the club prepared itself for a sale position.

Like others, you’re adding to my words and drawing conclusions that I haven’t offered.

You need to pay more attention to what the accounts report because investment never stopped - covid hampered it, as much with off season time available to do work as anything - but there was always a road map for investment and that went some way into the future - the money was in place to pay for it, if a takeover did not happen. The player side over the Covid period was a combination of budget adaptation and Dyche exercising a veto on the players that could be traded -VSL removed that veto option with their new deal for him

the biggest difficulty under the Garlick/Dyche era was the growth required additional senior personnel (something Dyche wanted as much as Garlick) - one appointment that is slightly off can (and in our case did) contribute to other difficulties - this occurred for us even though Dyche/Garlick appeared to be equally happy at the time of the appointment. I would also add the departure of Dave Baldwin (now a consultant employed by VSL) and the promotion of Neil Hart to that situation.

It can be said that VSL recognised these problems and made a swift changes on these fronts but we have yet to determine if all of their changes in senior personnel will prove effective, VSL have made a large number of personnel changes - it helps change the mindset quickly but can create other problems, particularly putting people in positions where they have have no previous or relevant experience. Of course it can also impact the underlying culture, much of that culture was one of the attractions in the takeover apparently.

[spt_claret]

The majority of business stagnate as they approach sale. The outgoing don’t want to spend money that can go in their pockets.

Certainly not helped when the incoming don't want to spend money to buy the business.

[Blakesboots]

Certainly not helped when the incoming don't want to spend money to buy the business.

We need to get over that. It’s a genuine business strategy, used widely. You’ve used up that particular drum to bang.

The clubs finances will be secure, plans are in place for whatever happens today. BFC will still move forward.

[DCWat]

We need to get over that. It’s a genuine business strategy, used widely. You’ve used up that particular drum to bang.

The clubs finances will be secure, plans are in place for whatever happens today. BFC will still move forward.

You seem to know a lot about it and take a particularly partisan stance with all things ALK.

[Chester Perry]

The clubs finances will be secure, plans are in place for whatever happens today. BFC will still move forward.

I take it that covers the large cheque to the sellers next month? I understand it is the biggest one since the first, and more than the reported fee we received for Chris Wood - unless they have persuaded them to change the schedule again!!

[Blakesboots]

I take it that covers the large cheque to the sellers next month? I understand it is the biggest one since the first, and more than the reported fee we received for Chris Wood - unless they have persuaded them to change the schedule again!!

Fingers crossed that we’re allowed to stick with Plan A come this evening.

[Blakesboots]

Looks like Plan B will needed

[AwayClaret]

How have we performed like we have to this. ******* shocking.

[Chester Perry]

Looks like Plan B will needed

Does that involve the sellers buying back some shares?

[AwayClaret]

Wrong thread apologies

[Blakesboots]

Does that involve the sellers buying back some shares?

I’ve none for sale, do you?

[DCWat]

Alan’s plan B! Doesn’t bear thinking about!