ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

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Blakesboots
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Thu May 19, 2022 4:25 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 5:45 pm
I thought the app, the owners use, would have catapulted us to the top of the list of amazing academies.
On other threads posters are called out for having a pop, yet here people are calling a recruitment system that you have no information on, or metrics to measure it’s success.

Trust me, it’s working away in the background. Like the academy, it will take time to bring through players.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:34 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:25 pm
On other threads posters are called out for having a pop, yet here people are calling a recruitment system that you have no information on, or metrics to measure it’s success.

Trust me, it’s working away in the background. Like the academy, it will take time to bring through players.
Source - “trust me”

Haha

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu May 19, 2022 4:53 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:25 pm
On other threads posters are called out for having a pop, yet here people are calling a recruitment system that you have no information on, or metrics to measure it’s success.

Trust me, it’s working away in the background. Like the academy, it will take time to bring through players.
Call me out then and tell me what's working about it.

All we know so far is they brought the best lads from the app over for a game against the u15s and got walloped 8-0.

There must be some good parts to it, so fill ya boots and tell us.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Adeola Friday » Thu May 19, 2022 5:19 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:21 pm
I don’t think that’s the case at all and it’s dangerous to say so until you know the findings and action planning coming from the audit.
Dangerous?! Oh no!!!

What will the auditors do to us once they've found this thread? Just how much danger are we in? Should we be packing a bag and making a run for the border under cover of darkness? Is there a message board equivalent of Witness Protection we can go into...?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Kevwando » Fri May 20, 2022 5:58 pm

https://t.co/Fl0VRSFv87
Telegraph reporting we have been downgraded

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 6:06 pm

This bit:

“We have seen a high number of players progress through the academy to make their debuts with the first team squad, be included with the first team on match days, and progress into first team men’s football either on loan or with other clubs."

yep, loads of debuts...
you lose count.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by eastcoastclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 6:10 pm

Kevwando wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 5:58 pm
https://t.co/Fl0VRSFv87
Telegraph reporting we have been downgraded
So according to the club statement the board have heard nothing and a meeting at which it is to be discussed isn't until next week.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by fatboy47 » Fri May 20, 2022 6:18 pm

Either the Torygraph or BFC managment is full of baloney.
Can't both be being honest.

Time will tell.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by BurnleyFC » Fri May 20, 2022 6:53 pm

I seriously couldn’t give two shits whether we’re Level 1 or 2.

There’s plenty of sticks to beat the club with currently but this white elephant isn’t one of them.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Culmclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 6:57 pm

It really doesn’t make any difference. We’ve brought through one, yes one, decent player in 13 years and he was a Utd reject. Sadly, and I wish it were not the case, our Academy does little more than develop players for other clubs

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Fri May 20, 2022 7:00 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:53 pm
I seriously couldn’t give two shits whether we’re Level 1 or 2.

There’s plenty of sticks to beat the club with currently but this white elephant isn’t one of them.
You might not be concerned but a lot of people are. It’s key that we retain cat 1 status.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 20, 2022 7:01 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:53 pm
I seriously couldn’t give two shits whether we’re Level 1 or 2.

There’s plenty of sticks to beat the club with currently but this white elephant isn’t one of them.
you will if we are level 2 and we have players poached by level 1 academies - maybe even our friends down the road

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Culmclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:08 pm

I actually think it is worthy that Academies generally develop players who go on to play at a lower level, but on the basis that we have had our most successful period for 50 years in which youth development, with one exception, has made no contribution whatsoever, I am not sure I would say that it is ‘key’. I would love to go back to the days of the Burnley conveyor belt of talent, but that is just not going to happen. If we can afford it, then I am happy with it as a social service: if we can’t, never mind. I almost always agree with Tony but not on this one

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by spt_claret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:12 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:53 pm
I seriously couldn’t give two shits whether we’re Level 1 or 2.

There’s plenty of sticks to beat the club with currently but this white elephant isn’t one of them.
You should be, ALK have said the Academy is a key priority of their strategy going forward, and one look at the accounts shows how even if we stay up we will be tight pressed to buy players so the Academy is an important medium to long term player stream. If we have a downgraded academy and no money then we are completely reliant on the App so wonderful that Blakesboots can't even disclose any data on it, he can just tell us we don't know so should take his word. Oh and that criticism is dangerous.

Interesting for the Telegraph to note that there's investment requirements in cat one licences. Wonder if thats where we fell down given the finances. Hopefully we can sort out whatever is wrong on appeal.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 7:15 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:01 pm
you will if we are level 2 and we have players poached by level 1 academies - maybe even our friends down the road
So far i can only think of one of our academy products being even vaguely likely to get poached.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Culmclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:16 pm

I was briefly excited by ALK’s player development strategy until I realised how clueless they are…..
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 7:19 pm

In the last 3 years i'd say our best policy has been to bring in "cast-offs" from other PL academies to play at U23 level.
This bypasses the (99% ish )failure rate from young players through the academy system.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri May 20, 2022 7:21 pm

Im sure the app where you film yourself doing keep uppies will compensate for the downgrade

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 7:27 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:21 pm
Im sure the app where you film yourself doing keep uppies will compensate for the downgrade
:D ;)

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by daveisaclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:27 pm

Are people seriously claiming we've had no success from having a category 1 academy after two years? What on earth were you expecting to happen?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Fri May 20, 2022 8:36 pm

Culmclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:08 pm
I actually think it is worthy that Academies generally develop players who go on to play at a lower level, but on the basis that we have had our most successful period for 50 years in which youth development, with one exception, has made no contribution whatsoever, I am not sure I would say that it is ‘key’. I would love to go back to the days of the Burnley conveyor belt of talent, but that is just not going to happen. If we can afford it, then I am happy with it as a social service: if we can’t, never mind. I almost always agree with Tony but not on this one
I think you need to understand EPPP somewhat. Dropping down could be a major problem in the next few years.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Fri May 20, 2022 8:37 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:27 pm
Are people seriously claiming we've had no success from having a category 1 academy after two years? What on earth were you expecting to happen?
Some people seem to expect immediate results without trying to understand it. There is no doubt that the progression in the last few years has been excellent. The thought of losing it is very worrying.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Fri May 20, 2022 9:26 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:12 pm
You should be, ALK have said the Academy is a key priority of their strategy going forward, and one look at the accounts shows how even if we stay up we will be tight pressed to buy players so the Academy is an important medium to long term player stream. If we have a downgraded academy and no money then we are completely reliant on the App so wonderful that Blakesboots can't even disclose any data on it, he can just tell us we don't know so should take his word. Oh and that criticism is dangerous.

Interesting for the Telegraph to note that there's investment requirements in cat one licences. Wonder if thats where we fell down given the finances. Hopefully we can sort out whatever is wrong on appeal.
I don’t think that there’s data worth discussing at the moment, and it would only serve to feed those who want this to fail. It seems odd that anyone attached to the club would want a potential recruitment tool ridiculed.

The championship/football manager engine that’s now been developed (and marketed) into a industry wide metric was laughed at in the beginning.

Give it time and let it do it’s job.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Fri May 20, 2022 9:28 pm

Culmclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:16 pm
I was briefly excited by ALK’s player development strategy until I realised how clueless they are…..
Christ on a bike.

The academy pre ALK was just recovering from the damage and getting to a level that allowed it to kick on. ALK have been in a short time to continue that and build upon it…

Tell me how you have measured the facts and come up with clueless?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Fri May 20, 2022 9:31 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:19 pm
In the last 3 years i'd say our best policy has been to bring in "cast-offs" from other PL academies to play at U23 level.
This bypasses the (99% ish )failure rate from young players through the academy system.
This system is to ‘facilitate’ the few that have a chance of pushing into the first team. Sad as that may be, Jimmy Dunne et Al were never going to be a regular first team player at BFC.

What is pleasing is that the club have managed to develop both pathways that give careers to players in the football league and bring in income. This is the way!

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Fri May 20, 2022 9:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:37 pm
Some people seem to expect immediate results without trying to understand it. There is no doubt that the progression in the last few years has been excellent. The thought of losing it is very worrying.
Yet above you’ve liked a post belittling the ALK recruitment strategy?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 10:08 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:31 pm
This system is to ‘facilitate’ the few that have a chance of pushing into the first team. Sad as that may be, Jimmy Dunne et Al were never going to be a regular first team player at BFC.
You mention Jimmy Dunne, who had potential but chose to get regular football elsewhere.
This is a situation repeating itself with Bobby Thomas.
Either could easily be a non-playing 4th choice.
The club talks about debuts for players who have come through the system (I mean the whole system, not brought in at 17), can you name one, other than Bobby Thomas in the League Cup)?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:20 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:28 pm
Christ on a bike.

The academy pre ALK was just recovering from the damage and getting to a level that allowed it to kick on. ALK have been in a short time to continue that and build upon it…

Tell me how you have measured the facts and come up with clueless?
Rising ticket prices in cost of living crisis/pandemic, heavy debt, giving Dyche one of the most lucrative contracts in the league and then sacking him 6 months later, signing players that don’t suit our system, academy being demoted under there tenureship.

I can see why someone would make that statement.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:29 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:20 pm
Rising ticket prices in cost of living crisis/pandemic, heavy debt, giving Dyche one of the most lucrative contracts in the league and then sacking him 6 months later, signing players that don’t suit our system, academy being demoted under there tenureship.

I can see why someone would make that statement.
All of those will pale into insignificance if things go wrong on Sunday...

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:31 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:29 pm
All of those will pale into insignificance if things go wrong on Sunday...
True, just merely highlighting to Blakeshot that I can understand that posters view.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by gandhisflipflop » Fri May 20, 2022 10:32 pm

If this is the biggest game since orient, and we are set to go into oblivion should we go down. If we win, do I get to spend the next 30 years going on about it?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by superdimitri » Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 pm

We needed to go all out or give up so it will be disappointing since we chose the former if we're downgraded.
I imagine staying up will be crucial to be able to afford cat 1.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Spike » Fri May 20, 2022 10:46 pm

What the hell are those clowns from ALK doing can’t they get anything right?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Fri May 20, 2022 11:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:20 pm
Rising ticket prices in cost of living crisis/pandemic, heavy debt, giving Dyche one of the most lucrative contracts in the league and then sacking him 6 months later, signing players that don’t suit our system, academy being demoted under there tenureship.

I can see why someone would make that statement.
And how does all that affect the academy recruitment under ALK?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat May 21, 2022 7:20 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:18 pm
And how does all that affect the academy recruitment under ALK?
Given there track record I think most could assume they would do the same for academy recruitment.

Again this a forum people are allowed different opinions, you back them with everything most others don’t due to there track record.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Nori1958 » Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 7:20 am
Given there track record I think most could assume they would do the same for academy recruitment.

Again this a forum people are allowed different opinions, you back them with everything most others don’t due to there track record.
What are you classing as their track record

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Sat May 21, 2022 7:54 am

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 am
What are you classing as their track record
I think this too, at this point ALK have recruited well and those players have added value to the squad during this tough period.

I think that recruitment across the football club will improve or has already improved.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat May 21, 2022 8:01 am

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 am
What are you classing as their track record
The items listed above.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sat May 21, 2022 8:05 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:32 pm
If this is the biggest game since orient, and we are set to go into oblivion should we go down. If we win, do I get to spend the next 30 years going on about it?
If you like. But it's worth remembering that survival on Sunday doesn't make all of our financial problems go away. It will keep the wolves from the door this season, but PL survival will be just as critical next season.

Still, let's just focus on Sunday. A massive game.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat May 21, 2022 8:14 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:32 pm
If this is the biggest game since orient, and we are set to go into oblivion should we go down. If we win, do I get to spend the next 30 years going on about it?
Someone is making a film about Brighton's "Orient" game, I can't believe no one's done the same for Burnley :roll:

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Longsidelenny1882 » Sat May 21, 2022 8:36 am

Not good if we loose cat 1 said it many times think we might have made a big mistake letting Dr Pepper leave dwight McNeil jimmy dunne jay rod Lewis Richardson O’Neil have all played for the 1st team and they started and came through the system when we where cat 3 you are either a decent player or your not utc

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Sat May 21, 2022 11:45 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:28 pm
Christ on a bike.

The academy pre ALK was just recovering from the damage and getting to a level that allowed it to kick on. ALK have been in a short time to continue that and build upon it…

Tell me how you have measured the facts and come up with clueless?
And you tell me why you are so damned offensive to people who might be critical of the academy. You've even told us to stop commenting and told one poster it is dangerous to do so. You think some of our posters are clueless. Dear me, we are so sorry for commenting on something that means a lot to us.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat May 21, 2022 12:04 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:01 pm
you will if we are level 2 and we have players poached by level 1 academies - maybe even our friends down the road
Why would a supposedly bigger team want to poach our academy players when they’re not even good enough for us?

Our best bet is to recruit from abroad and continue to pick up domestic under 23s that have been released by the bigger teams, and we’ll be still be able to do that whether we’re level 1 or 2.

I’m not sure of the exact ins and outs of the finance side of things but the fact that very few teams outside of the Premier League operate a level 1 academy would indicate that it costs a relative fortune to run.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Sat May 21, 2022 12:21 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 11:45 am
And you tell me why you are so damned offensive to people who might be critical of the academy. You've even told us to stop commenting and told one poster it is dangerous to do so. You think some of our posters are clueless. Dear me, we are so sorry for commenting on something that means a lot to us.
I haven’t been offensive, I am happy for you to quote where you feel I have been. I’ve not told anyone to stop posting, I’m happy for you to quote where I have been.

I do feel it is dangerous to draw conclusions about the academy, and why it has been subject to a sanction when it is yet to be fully investigated and appealed.

You obviously feel very passionately about the football club, and have very clear views about those who work and have worked for the club. That’s absolutely your right, but you cannot as an objective supporter allow those relationships to influence your opinions until you are aware of the facts of the matter. I am sure that with your standing might well be better informed than others but we all have to be fair to a situation that is fluid and ongoing.

I don’t feel anyone is clueless, far from it. I am passionate about all fans having a voice within their football club. Yet I also think fans sometimes allow emotions to run deep and that manifests it’s self as conspiracy, or half truths that

I do acknowledge that this isn’t helped because of the lack of information that is available to the fans. It is frustrating. Sometimes hands are tied, lips are sealed, or it is just inappropriate to discuss it in a public forum.

BFC is everyone’s football club, but it is also true it’s a business and I do feel on the whole ALK are running that business in a manner that is driving BFC forward from a pretty stagnant starting point.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Sat May 21, 2022 12:27 pm

Blakesboots wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:21 pm


I do feel it is dangerous to draw conclusions about the academy, and why it has been subject to a sanction when it is yet to be fully investigated and appealed.
Why is it dangerous for supporters who care about the academy to comment? How do you know whether it's been fully investigated or not and whether there's an appeal? What's your involvement that you appear to know what's going on?

ClaretTony
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by ClaretTony » Sat May 21, 2022 12:30 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:04 pm
Why would a supposedly bigger team want to poach our academy players when they’re not even good enough for us?
We have academy players way down the age groups - and don't even believe we haven't had some poached already.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by groove » Sat May 21, 2022 12:31 pm

Do we have to have an academy? What would happen if we just shelved all the youth set up? It must be running at a loss and very few make the first team so what is the point?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Blakesboots » Sat May 21, 2022 12:31 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:27 pm
Why is it dangerous for supporters who care about the academy to comment? How do you know whether it's been fully investigated or not and whether there's an appeal? What's your involvement that you appear to know what's going on?
So I’ve not been offensive, nor have I told anyone to stop posting.

I as I’ve said I FEEL it is dangerous to draw conclusions without the full facts of the situation and the follow up actions/appeal.

So why am I not allowed to offer my thoughts on something I feel passionately about?

I am a fan of Burnley Football Club, the same as you.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by spt_claret » Sun May 22, 2022 1:43 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:26 pm
I don’t think that there’s data worth discussing at the moment, and it would only serve to feed those who want this to fail. It seems odd that anyone attached to the club would want a potential recruitment tool ridiculed.

The championship/football manager engine that’s now been developed (and marketed) into a industry wide metric was laughed at in the beginning.

Give it time and let it do it’s job.
I'm not wanting it ridiculed, I just would be more reassured to have some positive data to go off of rather than optimism and faith.

Fully agree on the second point, Football Manager might not map into actual management but the game has an incredible scouting setup which has always had the nucleus of something transferrable to the real thing. But outside the box ideas that work are rare for a reason, and usually have steady evidence of progression or proof of concept.

I want the app to work. I'd just be more confident if the club was more forthcoming on how it works and what is working so far. I'm fine with being patient, it's why I back investing in the academy.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets await news after academy concerns

Post by Elbarad » Sun May 22, 2022 2:08 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:27 pm
Why is it dangerous for supporters who care about the academy to comment? How do you know whether it's been fully investigated or not and whether there's an appeal? What's your involvement that you appear to know what's going on?
To be fair your own article said there had been an appeal.
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