Leeds and Burnley v Everton
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Leeds United and Burnley have threatened to bring a claim for substantial damages against the Premier League and Everton believing the Merseyside club have seriously breached financial rules.
The two clubs sent a letter last week warning they reserve the right to take legal action against the Premier League and Everton, and demanding details of what – if any – action or investigation the league has started after Everton recorded losses totalling £371.8million over the last three years.
The Premier League’s profit and financial sustainability rules allow clubs to lose a maximum £105million over a three-year period or face sanctions which include points deductions for serious breaches.
Losses caused by the Covid pandemic can be written off but Leeds and Burnley have raised concerns that media reports and Companies House filings show Everton’s Covid-related losses are more than three times that of clubs of a similar size.
The Premier League declined to comment. An Everton spokesman told The Times: “We have worked so closely with the Premier League to make sure we are compliant we are comfortable we have complied with the rules.
“External auditors have told us what we can and cannot claim against the pandemic.
“If they want to take legal action then they can do so by all means.”
Leeds and Burnley have been in a relegation fight with Everton, who secured their Premier League survival on Thursday night. The letter was sent before last weekend’s round of matches however and the two clubs believe the majority of other teams in the top flight are sympathetic.
The pair are understood to have written they are concerned that while Everton may have been in serious breach of the financial rules they have continued to have a substantial advantage over other clubs in the Premier League who have been compliant. They are also understood to have written expressing concerns that the league has not acted appropriately or quick enough.
Their action is potentially the most serious legal challenge to the Premier League and a member club since West Ham United paid Sheffield United £20 million compensation after being fined — rather than having a point deduction — in 2007 for breaching third-party rules in signing Carlos Tevez.
When announcing their annual results in March, Everton said £170 million of the losses were related to the “dramatic and ongoing financial impact” of the Covid pandemic. That was far more than other clubs in the Premier League with Aston Villa stating that £56 million was lost due to Covid and Newcastle United putting the figure at £40 million.
Everton have also continued to spend on transfers this season and in the January window brought in defender Vitaly Mykolenko for £17 million, Nathan Patterson for £12 million, and loan deals for Dele Alli and Donny van de Beek.
Everton only generated £14 million a season from matchday income pre-pandemic, and in March said the impact of Covid on the transfer market had also contributed to their losses.
The club said in a statement in March: “Losses of at least £170m are attributed to the impact on the Club of the Covid-19 pandemic, with £103m of that figure coming in the 2020/21 financial year. Continued investment in the playing squad, coupled with the impact of the pandemic, has resulted in the club posting a loss of £120.9m for the year ending 30 June 2021.
“The wide-ranging impact of Covid-19 on Everton — which further market analysis has indicated could include an additional £50m — covers lost revenues, additional costs due to strict Covid-19 playing protocols and a significant contraction in the transfer market which resulted in the inability to generate the level of transfer fees which could reasonably have been expected pre-pandemic.”
The statement said the club had also been “working formally with the Premier League regarding its ongoing compliance with Profitability & Sustainability regulations” and had committed “significant amounts to a complex new stadium project” — sums which can also be written off against the £105million permitted losses.
The two clubs sent a letter last week warning they reserve the right to take legal action against the Premier League and Everton, and demanding details of what – if any – action or investigation the league has started after Everton recorded losses totalling £371.8million over the last three years.
The Premier League’s profit and financial sustainability rules allow clubs to lose a maximum £105million over a three-year period or face sanctions which include points deductions for serious breaches.
Losses caused by the Covid pandemic can be written off but Leeds and Burnley have raised concerns that media reports and Companies House filings show Everton’s Covid-related losses are more than three times that of clubs of a similar size.
The Premier League declined to comment. An Everton spokesman told The Times: “We have worked so closely with the Premier League to make sure we are compliant we are comfortable we have complied with the rules.
“External auditors have told us what we can and cannot claim against the pandemic.
“If they want to take legal action then they can do so by all means.”
Leeds and Burnley have been in a relegation fight with Everton, who secured their Premier League survival on Thursday night. The letter was sent before last weekend’s round of matches however and the two clubs believe the majority of other teams in the top flight are sympathetic.
The pair are understood to have written they are concerned that while Everton may have been in serious breach of the financial rules they have continued to have a substantial advantage over other clubs in the Premier League who have been compliant. They are also understood to have written expressing concerns that the league has not acted appropriately or quick enough.
Their action is potentially the most serious legal challenge to the Premier League and a member club since West Ham United paid Sheffield United £20 million compensation after being fined — rather than having a point deduction — in 2007 for breaching third-party rules in signing Carlos Tevez.
When announcing their annual results in March, Everton said £170 million of the losses were related to the “dramatic and ongoing financial impact” of the Covid pandemic. That was far more than other clubs in the Premier League with Aston Villa stating that £56 million was lost due to Covid and Newcastle United putting the figure at £40 million.
Everton have also continued to spend on transfers this season and in the January window brought in defender Vitaly Mykolenko for £17 million, Nathan Patterson for £12 million, and loan deals for Dele Alli and Donny van de Beek.
Everton only generated £14 million a season from matchday income pre-pandemic, and in March said the impact of Covid on the transfer market had also contributed to their losses.
The club said in a statement in March: “Losses of at least £170m are attributed to the impact on the Club of the Covid-19 pandemic, with £103m of that figure coming in the 2020/21 financial year. Continued investment in the playing squad, coupled with the impact of the pandemic, has resulted in the club posting a loss of £120.9m for the year ending 30 June 2021.
“The wide-ranging impact of Covid-19 on Everton — which further market analysis has indicated could include an additional £50m — covers lost revenues, additional costs due to strict Covid-19 playing protocols and a significant contraction in the transfer market which resulted in the inability to generate the level of transfer fees which could reasonably have been expected pre-pandemic.”
The statement said the club had also been “working formally with the Premier League regarding its ongoing compliance with Profitability & Sustainability regulations” and had committed “significant amounts to a complex new stadium project” — sums which can also be written off against the £105million permitted losses.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
it is called plan B - Everton have been working with the Premier League open book all season trying to justify the £170m of Covid losses that they have claimed to escape FFP breaches
personally I expect Everton to get away with it - given the Premier League have been looking so long and and not made any charges
it is all part of the crap the game has become
personally I expect Everton to get away with it - given the Premier League have been looking so long and and not made any charges
it is all part of the crap the game has become
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
I presume the "significant contraction in the transfer market" only applied to outgoing sales, not player purchases? And that the "fact" that they couldn't sell players had no effect on the number they bought? You only have to look at the transfer fees they were paying, to know that there was no contraction.claretandy wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 4:43 pm“The wide-ranging impact of Covid-19 on Everton — which further market analysis has indicated could include an additional £50m — covers lost revenues, additional costs due to strict Covid-19 playing protocols and a significant contraction in the transfer market which resulted in the inability to generate the level of transfer fees which could reasonably have been expected pre-pandemic.”
The statement said the club had also been “working formally with the Premier League regarding its ongoing compliance with Profitability & Sustainability regulations” and had committed “significant amounts to a complex new stadium project” — sums which can also be written off against the £105million permitted losses.
As for new stadium costs, they should have been capitalised. They wouldn't be part of the losses at all.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
correct on both counts - stadium cost have now been capitalised when the groundwork started on the dockdsr wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 4:54 pmI presume the "significant contraction in the transfer market" only applied to outgoing sales, not player purchases? And that the "fact" that they couldn't sell players had no effect on the number they bought? You only have to look at the transfer fees they were paying, to know that there was no contraction.
As for new stadium costs, they should have been capitalised. They wouldn't be part of the losses at all.
the issue with trying to sell players is down tot he grossly inflated wages the players were contracted to at Everton - all on pre Covid deals - Everton are using Covid to cover up the fact that they had grossly overpaid many poor signings - the difficulty they had in selling them was also being experienced pre-covid
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Embarrassing that Burnley and Leeds are trying to threaten the Premier League to make up for their shortcomings on the pitch. Lets focus on getting enough points to finish outside of the bottom 3 instead of trying to play the victim cos even though its to be expected from some fans as a club we should be better than this
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
TheEsk is probably the best informed non-Everton/Premier League employee on Everton's financials - here is what he posted on the subject late last year
https://theesk.org/2022/01/20/profitabi ... -position/
https://theesk.org/2022/01/20/profitabi ... -position/
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Any Port in a storm DA. If Everton have contravened the rules and it looks like they might well have, other clubs particularly struggling ones (like Leeds and us) are entitled to question their financial conduct if they feel it has created an advantage.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:02 pmEmbarrassing that Burnley and Leeds are trying to threaten the Premier League to make up for their shortcomings on the pitch. Lets focus on getting enough points to finish outside of the bottom 3 instead of trying to play the victim cos even though its to be expected from some fans as a club we should be better than this
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
and this is what TheEsk had to say about their accounts when they were published - there is a whole section on Profit and Sustainability (FFP to most people)Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:09 pmTheEsk is probably the best informed non-Everton/Premier League employee on Everton's financials - here is what he posted on the subject late last year
https://theesk.org/2022/01/20/profitabi ... -position/
https://theesk.org/2022/04/02/a-deeper- ... id-impact/
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
If it was Leeds and Everton taking action against Burnley, something would be done; as it stands though, pretty unlikely. As DA points out in his inimitable style, let's just get the job done on the pitch.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
As galling as it is that some clubs seem to bend the rules ... and get away with it season upon season ... nowt we can do about it.
We should be concentrating on beating Newcastle on Sunday and retaining PL status ... if Everton have been deemed to have broken the rules hopefully they will be censured next season ...
Come on you Clarets fans lets get behind our boys on Sunday and cheer them on to victory
We should be concentrating on beating Newcastle on Sunday and retaining PL status ... if Everton have been deemed to have broken the rules hopefully they will be censured next season ...
Come on you Clarets fans lets get behind our boys on Sunday and cheer them on to victory
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
I don’t think it’s embarrassing to ask the Premier League for clarification if Burnley and Leeds genuinely think it’s cheating. We can still focus on getting the three points, its not one or the other and won’t have a detrimental affect on what goes on on the pitch.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:02 pmEmbarrassing that Burnley and Leeds are trying to threaten the Premier League to make up for their shortcomings on the pitch. Lets focus on getting enough points to finish outside of the bottom 3 instead of trying to play the victim cos even though its to be expected from some fans as a club we should be better than this
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
We are out of the bottom 3. Mighty Leeds however are not so your argument only applies to themDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:02 pmEmbarrassing that Burnley and Leeds are trying to threaten the Premier League to make up for their shortcomings on the pitch. Lets focus on getting enough points to finish outside of the bottom 3 instead of trying to play the victim cos even though its to be expected from some fans as a club we should be better than this
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Very poor from both clubs, probably done when Everton were in the relegation fight, stinks of desperation
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Even their own, very informed fans, think it is questionable but Everton have made great issue over the years of their status (we have seen it again recently about the threat of relegation in the media) they really believe they are the soul of football.RMutt wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:27 pmI don’t think it’s embarrassing to ask the Premier League for clarification if Burnley and Leeds genuinely think it’s cheating. We can still focus on getting the three points, its not one or the other and won’t have a detrimental affect what goes on on the pitch.
the mess is of their own making and they should be held responsible for a pretty obvious breach of the rules - as I have said it won't happen and the only victory a club would have against them is in a private legal case like Sheffield Utd/West Ham
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Why is it poor? The league has rules that ostensibly prevent clubs from gaining an advantage by spending significantly more than they can afford. Everton’s behaviour appears to be a spectacular breach of those rules which has conferred an unfair advantage. As a result, one of our two clubs will be relegated and suffer extreme financial consequences.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Embarrassing that you still think acting as devils advocate is funnyDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:02 pmEmbarrassing that Burnley and Leeds are trying to threaten the Premier League to make up for their shortcomings on the pitch. Lets focus on getting enough points to finish outside of the bottom 3 instead of trying to play the victim cos even though its to be expected from some fans as a club we should be better than this
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Absolutely agree. If no one ever says or does anything about it then what’s the point.Culmclaret wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:43 pmWhy is it poor? The league has rules that ostensibly prevent clubs from gaining an advantage by spending significantly more than they can afford. Everton’s behaviour appears to be a spectacular breach of those rules which has conferred an unfair advantage. As a result, one of our two clubs will be relegated and suffer extreme financial consequences.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
You would know better than me how pro active the Premier League are at dealing with this stuff. I suspect not very, so I can’t see the harm in reminding them that there are clubs trying to work within the rules. If you don’t ask the question you don’t get an answer.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:37 pmEven their own, very informed fans, think it is questionable but Everton have made great issue over the years of their status (we have seen it again recently about the threat of relegation in the media) they really believe they are the soul of football.
the mess is of their own making and they should be held responsible for a pretty obvious breach of the rules - as I have said it won't happen and the only victory a club would have against them is in a private legal case like Sheffield Utd/West Ham
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
You mean like the 3 years and counting investigation into the questionable sponsors and other financial practices in and around Manchester City and still no chargeRMutt wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:47 pmYou would know better than me how pro active the Premier League are at dealing with this stuff. I suspect not very, so I can’t see the harm in reminding them that there are clubs trying to work within the rules. If you don’t ask the question you don’t get an answer.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Sounds like the PL already know about the breaches of rules but don't care. It's surely nonsensical to say that they only lost all that money because they couldn't sell (among others) Michael Keane, who then scored the goal (one of them) that kept them up. They might just about have a sensible argument if a player they could have sold was stuck in the reserves draining their resources, but there is no sensible argument that one of their first team was costing them money because they wanted to sell him.
But I don't suppose the PL is bothered whether their arguments are sensible. Like with the richarlison flare, and with diving, and with time wasting, and with pitch inspections, the PL default position is to pretend there is nothing to see and nothing needs doing.
But I don't suppose the PL is bothered whether their arguments are sensible. Like with the richarlison flare, and with diving, and with time wasting, and with pitch inspections, the PL default position is to pretend there is nothing to see and nothing needs doing.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
There’s a huge stench around the the groups who run certain divisions
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
I suspect a lot of clubs also know this is happening but won’t rock the boat because most of them are also doing it. Burnley, regardless of league status, will be unlikely to be able to overspend so have no such risk. Leeds probably just desperate.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Corruption starts at the very top and filters down.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
It is no surprise that both clubs have strong American ownership interests who have experience of American sports - I have spent years posting about the difference between western (rules) and eastern (deals) approach to business on the MMT - the Premier League (along with FIFA and UEFA) have been trying to bridge the two approaches and have found differing levels of difficulty depending how committed they are to hard defined rules (UEFA have lost several high profile cases at CAS when their own rules were turned on them) FIFA bend with the money and the Premier League try to keep rules open so that they can sway to the collective interestCirrus_Minor wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:57 pmI suspect a lot of clubs also know this is happening but won’t rock the boat because most of them are also doing it. Burnley, regardless of league status, will be unlikely to be able to overspend so have no such risk. Leeds probably just desperate.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Pretty sure one of the directors at ALK has had a career in sports law or law in investment banking.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Should it be us who stays up, I can see Leeds receiving a large compo package from Everton for the relegation (afterall Leeds are MASSIVE)
If it is Leeds who stay up, we'll get the square root of F'ckall...
If it is Leeds who stay up, we'll get the square root of F'ckall...
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
rules are rules, and if Everton have broken them they should be held accountable.
there can't be the situation where a VAR opinion on the pitch as to whether a ball has brushed the arm of a player, can literally sway the number of points collected - in both Leeds' and Burnley's a single situation is 6% of their total points - so materially impactful......
...... and then the huge white collar "Crime" is allowed to be gotten away with, or swept under the carpet
there can't be the situation where a VAR opinion on the pitch as to whether a ball has brushed the arm of a player, can literally sway the number of points collected - in both Leeds' and Burnley's a single situation is 6% of their total points - so materially impactful......
...... and then the huge white collar "Crime" is allowed to be gotten away with, or swept under the carpet
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
ExactlyChester Perry wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:55 pmYou mean like the 3 years and counting investigation into the questionable sponsors and other financial practices in and around Manchester City and still no charge
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
It will be brushed under the carpet in the summer, along with the ‘police’ investigation over the smoke bomb incident. It’s Everton.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Everton have escaped relegation simply because they have somehow managed to win games they had no right to win. That part of the equation is over .
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Always amazes me just how many City fans aren't aware of this ongoing investigation.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 5:55 pmYou mean like the 3 years and counting investigation into the questionable sponsors and other financial practices in and around Manchester City and still no charge
They're adamant it isn't happening
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
they may be right the Premier League refuses to answer any questions about it - it has all the indications of a parked investigation that has never been closed but is actually unofficially suspendedGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:09 pmAlways amazes me just how many City fans aren't aware of this ongoing investigation.
They're adamant it isn't happening
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Basically, at the end of the day, clubs should not be borrowing money that they can’t afford to pay back in the worst-case scenario… wait
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Looks like a claim against the PL is the likely outcome given Everton have opened up their books to them for some time. The Tevez thing resulted in £20m I believe and that was on far lower TV money, we could expect that equivalent would be at least double that today. So well worth pursuing if there is a legal case and everyone seems to think it is obvious that rules were broken.
Let’s hope we aren’t the ones pursuing it due to a good result on Sunday.
Let’s hope we aren’t the ones pursuing it due to a good result on Sunday.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Much of the comment around this has focussed on Everton’s clearly ridiculous Covid expenses, which is double that of some of the largest clubs in the league and more than 3x the division average. But even if you allow them the £170m, the accumulated losses are still >£200m - double what they’re allowed.
If that’s not a clear-cut breach of the rules, what is???
If that’s not a clear-cut breach of the rules, what is???
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
If the Premier league allow Everton to get away with it then a green light is given to all big clubs that cheating is allowed.
TBH that is exactly what they want.
TBH that is exactly what they want.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Who cares whether it looks like desperation? If Everton have broken the rules, it deserves to complained about. What is the point in having rules if they don't have to be followed?
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Just let VAR decide lol
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
IF Everton have broken the rules the Premier League will sanction them. If it was Everton trying to influence the Premier League to take action against Burnley about something you lot would be having a meltdown.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
I think that’s the entire question though isn’t it, will they sanction them? Or will the PL try and protect a club they want in the league? As Chester Perry has highlighted, their investigation into City has been ‘ongoing’ for 4 years.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 11:34 amIF Everton have broken the rules the Premier League will sanction them. If it was Everton trying to influence the Premier League to take action against Burnley about something you lot would be having a meltdown.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
The annoying aspect of this was the initial PL statement when this first landed in the public arena. They announced that they would be working alongside Everton as they were a founder member of the PL to assist with the stabilisation of the situation. As the peer body they should not be involving themselves in the financial running/affairs of any of their 20 golden share holders.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
You mean like Gylffi Siggurdsson who has likely cost them £20m in wages this season despite not been available for “undisclosed” ( ) reasons.
Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... pr4Gt5xE6g
Great thread from Swiss Ramble detailing the situation.
He thinks that Everton do have a case to answer, mainly to the tune of the supposed £88m they missed out on players sales due to covid, that they claimed.
Great thread from Swiss Ramble detailing the situation.
He thinks that Everton do have a case to answer, mainly to the tune of the supposed £88m they missed out on players sales due to covid, that they claimed.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
When you read that, they’ve been very naughty boys.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Definitely looks very fishy. To use the £88m re player sales as part of the Covid adjustment seems ridiculous. £88m is the highest profit they ever recorded on player sales, the next highest being £52m. How they have been allowed to use that seems very strange.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
Particularly since they made no apparent efforts to sell players and also bought players/added to the squad - incidentally, players that scored against us in the home game.Goodclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 3:04 pmDefinitely looks very fishy. To use the £88m re player sales as part of the Covid adjustment seems ridiculous. £88m is the highest profit they ever recorded on player sales, the next highest being £52m. How they have been allowed to use that seems very strange.
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Re: Leeds and Burnley v Everton
They haven't SR just pointed out that it is the same number, not that it was used because it was their highest figureGoodclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 3:04 pmDefinitely looks very fishy. To use the £88m re player sales as part of the Covid adjustment seems ridiculous. £88m is the highest profit they ever recorded on player sales, the next highest being £52m. How they have been allowed to use that seems very strange.
- it is no surprise that SR and TheEsk (whose analysis I have posted above) reach similar conclusions - they know each other
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