Britain's Strictest Headmistress - ITV, Sunday 22nd May 10:15pm

[dsr]

Sounds to me like she just wants to lower expectations of what social mobility should look like. Could be reworded as “ you working class people shouldn’t expect something as good as Oxbridge for your offspring. You should be happy if they end up working in middle management (or as a barman in a country they hate ). That’s the extent of the social mobility you should be hoping for.”

Not really what I’d expect from a “social mobility tsar”, but maybe my expectations of her are too high. Eg - I’d expect an educator not to paint false quotes from historical figures on the walls of her school.

Obviously it couldn't be reworded as that without changing the meaning, as you well know. you could try rewording it as "while it would be great if your child got to Oxbridge, not all children are able to do that but you should be happy if they end up working in middle management or as a teacher".

Where do you get the bit about the barman from? It was nowhere near any of the reports you quoted. Putting that in suggests that you have gone away from the idea that she is trying to improve children's lives in a way that you disapprove of, to believing that she doesn't want to improve children's lives at all. Which is it?

[dsr]

I guess it depends on what your experience of the education sector is. Do you work in it? Have professional qualifications in the area? Have you been a governor or other voluntary positions?

Virtually everyone on here has had many years of experience of the education sector.

[Greenmile]

Obviously it couldn't be reworded as that without changing the meaning, as you well know. you could try rewording it as "while it would be great if your child got to Oxbridge, not all children are able to do that but you should be happy if they end up working in middle management or as a teacher".

Where do you get the bit about the barman from? It was nowhere near any of the reports you quoted. Putting that in suggests that you have gone away from the idea that she is trying to improve children's lives in a way that you disapprove of, to believing that she doesn't want to improve children's lives at all. Which is it?

Your rewording doesn’t look all that different to mine, tbh. Remember this was a speech made in her capacity as a “social mobility tsar” (I believe). Do you think Stanley Johnson or William Rees-Mogg would (or should) have been happy if their sons ended up as teachers? If not, why not?

The barman bit was just my little joke with Rowls (hence the )

FWIW I don’t think she cares about improving childrens’ lives at all, apart from when doing so coincides with increasing her own public profile, but that’s just my opinion.

[dsr]

Your rewording doesn’t look all that different to mine, tbh. Remember this was a speech made in her capacity as a “social mobility tsar” (I believe). Do you think Stanley Johnson or William Rees-Mogg would (or should) have been happy if their sons ended up as teachers? If not, why not?

The barman bit was just my little joke with Rowls (hence the )

FWIW I don’t think she cares about improving childrens’ lives at all, apart from when doing so coincides with increasing her own public profile, but that’s just my opinion.

You can't see much difference between a speech (her version) saying you could get to Oxbridge and a speech (your version) saying you couldn't?

Yes, I think Stanley johnson or William Rees Mogg should have been happy if their children end up as teachers. What's wrong with being a teacher? The main thing is that the children would be doing eomething worthwhile which they (hopefully) enjoy. Money isn't everything, you know.

As for not caring about improving children's lives, do you genuinely think she became a teacher because she thought it would increase her public profile?

[ClaretPete001]

The argument against Katherine Birbalsingh is that her methods are not scalable. In other words if you create a school where the hype is such that silence is required in corridors and there is an ultra competitive no nonsense approach that is perceived to be unsympathetic to SEND or students with learning issues- the cohort it receives becomes self-selecting. So, the results improve as a consequence but others in the locale get worse.

I have no opinions either way but hat is the crux of the argument.

[Greenmile]

You can't see much difference between a speech (her version) saying you could get to Oxbridge and a speech (your version) saying you couldn't?

Nope

Yes, I think Stanley johnson or William Rees Mogg should have been happy if their children end up as teachers...

As for not caring about improving children's lives, do you genuinely think she became a teacher because she thought it would increase her public profile?

I think she became “britain’s strictest headmistress” a “social mobility tsar” and spoke at a Tory conference to increase her public profile, yes. Just my opinion, though.

[aggi]

Virtually everyone on here has had many years of experience of the education sector.

I'm not so sure at times. I was wondering what knowledge Rowls had over the baseline. Given he's suggesting changing the whole educational system of the UK to follow the methods of one school with a minimal track record I assume it's something he's got a lot of experience in.

[Woodleyclaret]

I have worked in over 40 schools and met many great teachers but also many self opinionated chancers .Megalomaniac headteachers who consider themselves first,last and middle concerned only with the self engrandissment and ego building
Sad that the Tories bought into the strict head hype as this has no place in a considered educational debate, as to discussing what's really wrong with our schools and how they fail students.

[RMutt]

I'm not so sure at times. I was wondering what knowledge Rowls had over the baseline. Given he's suggesting changing the whole educational system of the UK to follow the methods of one school with a minimal track record I assume it's something he's got a lot of experience in.

Perhaps he’s the next Gove. That’s pretty much what he did, turned the national curriculum and exam system on its head with no educational expertise. The experts he was to work with resigned and left on his own he made it up on the back of a fag packet. Ask someone in education to explain his assessment without levels brainchild.

[Rowls]

Yes

Sorry mate, but it is

So just to be clear, if or when I become a father you'll suddenly agree with me on all matters concerning education? Seems bizarre to me.

[Rowls]

I'm not so sure at times. I was wondering what knowledge Rowls had over the baseline. Given he's suggesting changing the whole educational system of the UK to follow the methods of one school with a minimal track record I assume it's something he's got a lot of experience in.

It's not just one school though is it? All of the schools in the UK used to implement these kind of ideas and methods back when we had grammar schools.

Virtually every single school in Asia implements these ideas and methods.

More and more schools in the UK are taking up these methods once again - because they work.

When Katherine Birbalsingh was fighting to be allowed to open her school, her opponents were claiming it would be an utter failure. It was 'dommed to fail' and would only pump out automotons who knew nothing.

Since it's been shown to be an enormous success her opponents are suddenly claiming the fact that a mis-attributed quote on the wall somehow undermines everything the school has achieved.

Why are so many people apparently so determined to see this brilliant and successful school helping working class children fail? Why are so many people so determined to undermine it's many achievements?

It's all a bit pathetic, isn't it?

[Rowls]

I have worked in over 40 schools and met many great teachers but also many self opinionated chancers .Megalomaniac headteachers who consider themselves first,last and middle concerned only with the self engrandissment and ego building
Sad that the Tories bought into the strict head hype as this has no place in a considered educational debate, as to discussing what's really wrong with our schools and how they fail students.

This doesn't bare any resemblance to the real world. The schools that used to serve Brent and Ealing are the ones that failed generation after generation of working class children.

The new Michaela Free School that Katherine Birbalsingh set up is sending children to Oxford and Cambridge. Why would a success like this have "no place in considered educational debate"?

[Rowls]

So just to be clear, if or when I become a father you'll suddenly agree with me on all matters concerning education? Seems bizarre to me.

A couple of other quick questions:

How would your views change if I became a step-father or adopted a child?

Is there some kind of hierarchy you operate whereby, for example, you'll agree with everything a step-father says but not an adoptive parent?

[TheFamilyCat]

It's not just one school though is it? All of the schools in the UK used to implement these kind of ideas and methods back when we had grammar schools.

Virtually every single school in Asia implements these ideas and methods.

More and more schools in the UK are taking up these methods once again - because they work.

When Katherine Birbalsingh was fighting to be allowed to open her school, her opponents were claiming it would be an utter failure. It was 'dommed to fail' and would only pump out automotons who knew nothing.

Since it's been shown to be an enormous success her opponents are suddenly claiming the fact that a mis-attributed quote on the wall somehow undermines everything the school has achieved.

Why are so many people apparently so determined to see this brilliant and successful school helping working class children fail? Why are so many people so determined to undermine it's many achievements?

It's all a bit pathetic, isn't it?

The whole continent?

[Lancasterclaret]

So just to be clear, if or when I become a father you'll suddenly agree with me on all matters concerning education? Seems bizarre to me.

Your arguments are normally better than that

If you become a dad, then you'll understand education a bit more than you do, simply because you'll have the experience in looking after kids that you currently don't have

I can't put it more simply that that

[Lancasterclaret]

A couple of other quick questions:

How would your views change if I became a step-father or adopted a child?

Is there some kind of hierarchy you operate whereby, for example, you'll agree with everything a step-father says but not an adoptive parent?

See my previous post

[ClaretPete001]

It's not just one school though is it? All of the schools in the UK used to implement these kind of ideas and methods back when we had grammar schools.

Virtually every single school in Asia implements these ideas and methods.

More and more schools in the UK are taking up these methods once again - because they work.

When Katherine Birbalsingh was fighting to be allowed to open her school, her opponents were claiming it would be an utter failure. It was 'dommed to fail' and would only pump out automotons who knew nothing.

Since it's been shown to be an enormous success her opponents are suddenly claiming the fact that a mis-attributed quote on the wall somehow undermines everything the school has achieved.

Why are so many people apparently so determined to see this brilliant and successful school helping working class children fail? Why are so many people so determined to undermine it's many achievements?

It's all a bit pathetic, isn't it?

She makes lots of very controversial statements. For the record, she posts as something like @misssnuffy on Twitter.

The education system has little integrity - a prime example is the Govt's claim to have 1.9 million more children in good and outstanding schools primarily because the Gov't made it harder for Ofsted to inspect Good and Outstanding schools. In effect, the Gov't artificially created more good and outstanding schools.

The Gov't appoints Ofsted HMCI who then implement Gov't policy as laid out by Gove and then Nick Gibb (ex schools minister). Schools have to adopt the new approach otherwise they get a poor Ofsted grade. Ofsted is supposed to be apolitical but isn't.

There is no evidence to suggest any of it is working after 12 years in power other than a minor improvement in PISA data. Most studies suggest education isn't really improving to any great degree over decades.

It is true, the current Gov't has ended rampant grade inflation in secondary but it now exists in FE and HE.

I think Michaela is a great school for bright middle and working class kids but less good for anyone else. It's situation in London affects it's socio economic data because of the number of aspirational immigrants who seek out schools like Michaela.

For the ordinary and those with difficulties - I'm less sure.

Of course, like most people I'm a hypocrite I would send my kids to Michaela because I'm selfish.

Generally speaking, education is lost to policy and politics. In the end, privately educate and the middle classes get to Oxbridge and as long as that continues everyone will be more or less happy.

[dsr]

She makes lots of very controversial statements. For the record, she posts as something like @misssnuffy on Twitter.

The education system has little integrity - a prime example is the Govt's claim to have 1.9 million more children in good and outstanding schools primarily because the Gov't made it harder for Ofsted to inspect Good and Outstanding schools. In effect, the Gov't artificially created more good and outstanding schools.

The Gov't appoints Ofsted HMCI who then implement Gov't policy as laid out by Gove and then Nick Gibb (ex schools minister). Schools have to adopt the new approach otherwise they get a poor Ofsted grade. Ofsted is supposed to be apolitical but isn't.

There is no evidence to suggest any of it is working after 12 years in power other than a minor improvement in PISA data. Most studies suggest education isn't really improving to any great degree over decades.

It is true, the current Gov't has ended rampant grade inflation in secondary but it now exists in FE and HE.

I think Michaela is a great school for bright middle and working class kids but less good for anyone else. It's situation in London affects it's socio economic data because of the number of aspirational immigrants who seek out schools like Michaela.

For the ordinary and those with difficulties - I'm less sure.

Of course, like most people I'm a hypocrite I would send my kids to Michaela because I'm selfish.

Generally speaking, education is lost to policy and politics. In the end, privately educate and the middle classes get to Oxbridge and as long as that continues everyone will be more or less happy.

But there are certainly suggestions that a strict school where good behaviour and work are expected, would be good for unacademic children as well. I reckon the big thing about Michaela is that it has high expectations. Just because someone's ceiling is lower does not mean that they shouldn't try and reach that ceiling - which I suspect is what Ms Birbalsingh is talking about in her speech.

[Devils_Advocate]

Write up of the speech she gave today.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1534 ... 54400.html

[android]

Write up of the speech she gave today.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1534 ... 54400.html

I do fee some pity for that reporter. He seems to be the sort of person for whom there are few worse crimes than helping less fortunate kids with more than a handout and a grievance.

[aggi]

It's not just one school though is it? All of the schools in the UK used to implement these kind of ideas and methods back when we had grammar schools.

Virtually every single school in Asia implements these ideas and methods.

More and more schools in the UK are taking up these methods once again - because they work.

When Katherine Birbalsingh was fighting to be allowed to open her school, her opponents were claiming it would be an utter failure. It was 'dommed to fail' and would only pump out automotons who knew nothing.

Since it's been shown to be an enormous success her opponents are suddenly claiming the fact that a mis-attributed quote on the wall somehow undermines everything the school has achieved.

Why are so many people apparently so determined to see this brilliant and successful school helping working class children fail? Why are so many people so determined to undermine it's many achievements?

It's all a bit pathetic, isn't it?

I'm assuming from your not answering the question that your experience in the education sector is minimal. I'm more wondering where your knowledge of what is going on in schools at the moment, the idea that pupils aren't pushed, there aren't academic expectations or high behaviour levels aren't expected, is coming from? As an example, I know this head who has been getting excellent results and has high expectations of her pupils https://www.independent.co.uk/news/educ ... 23111.html

In terms of the Michaela school, it seems to be doing well but obviously that judgement is based on very limited information (one Ofsted when the school was less than half full and one set of pre-pandemic results) so I'd hold out before making a call.

On Katherine Birbalsingh as social mobility tsar, I'd disagree with her on a fair bit. That isn't taking away from her ability to run a school (although maybe from her ability to run schools).

[Rowls]

The whole continent?

The parts that have good education systems. It' very, very widespread.

Common in fee-paying schools in a lot of Africa too.

Your arguments are normally better than that
If you become a dad, then you'll understand education a bit more than you do, simply because you'll have the experience in looking after kids that you currently don't have
I can't put it more simply that that

We'll just have to disagree. You've stated your opinion explicitly now though and I've already put down the reasons I find it absurd. But it's good to disagree on good terms like that.

She makes lots of very controversial statements. For the record, she posts as something like @misssnuffy on Twitter...

...

Of course, like most people I'm a hypocrite I would send my kids to Michaela because I'm selfish.

I truly don't see anything much "controversial" in what she says on Twitter. I see her opponents flying off the handle but that's not the same as saying something genuinely controversial.

I have to disagree on your self-description of 'hypocrisy' - you'd send your kids to a great school like Michaela because that's what every right-minded parent tries to do: What they believe is right for their child.

You should be proud of that.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Did she nickname herself ‘Britain’s Strictest Headmistress’?

[fatboy47]

- you'd send your kids to a great school like Michaela because that's what every right-minded parent tries to do:

Faced with a choice between a higher-achieving school in a relatively genteel area locally and the bog-standard, dog-rough comp on a nearby council estate, I sent my kids to the latter..feeling they would learn more in the streetwise rough and tumble of a massively different peer group, and be able to forge their own ways ahead without the pushiness of the former.

Both children achieved 11 A's and A*s at gcse and went on to gain excellent degrees in academic subjects. They learned leadership in sports and within the classroom..and went on to develop this at university.

Both are now rounded happy confident adults with an awareness that education is much more than a grading in the latest ofsted report.

Several friends who fought for places at the supposedly superior setting ended up far less satisfied with the outcomes.

[Rowls]

Faced with a choice between a higher-achieving school in a relatively genteel area locally and the bog-standard, dog-rough comp on a nearby council estate, I sent my kids to the latter..feeling they would learn more in the streetwise rough and tumble of a massively different peer group, and be able to forge their own ways ahead without the pushiness of the former.

Both children achieved 11 A's and A*s at gcse and went on to gain excellent degrees in academic subjects. They learned leadership in sports and within the classroom..and went on to develop this at university.

Both are now rounded happy confident adults with an awareness that education is much more than a grading in the latest ofsted report.

Several friends who fought for places at the supposedly superior setting ended up far less satisfied with the outcomes.

Glad to hear your kids did so well fatboy47.

[Rowls]

An interview available on YouTube for you guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKrorzQvWHQ

" "Boris is a Bad Role Model," says Katherine Birbalsingh"

[dougcollins]

An interview available on YouTube for you guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKrorzQvWHQ

" "Boris is a Bad Role Model," says Katherine Birbalsingh"

No sh!t.

[Rowls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf2ZRJQWrp8

Another interesting clip if anybody is interested. This clip is great because it's a discussion between a couple of MPs as well as Katherine Birbalsingh.

Labour MP Carolyn Harris is against the methods and educational approach of the Michaela School. She says:

...thinking about the schools in my constituency where there is so many social and economic problems and there's everything going on around them like missing dads and they [the pupils] wouldn't have the wherewithal to meet the exacting standards ... some of my schools are doing more social work than they are actual education and that's the truth of it

Katherine Birbalsingh in response:

... We are in the inner city and we have similar sorts of children. It's less about cost. It's more about keeping your standards high and giving the same level of education to the poor as you would do the rich.
But when you think to yourself 'Oh they're poor so they can't do it' that's where we let children down and it's by keeping those standards high that they then rise to them so they're able to leave school not just with brilliant GCSE results but they're able to have the habits of success that will ensure they have resilience and discipline in themself -self discipline- that they are ambitious, that they are able to build the kinds of skills and take the kind of knowledge that will see them through the rest of their lives.

Watch the clip and decide for yourself who you think has the most compelling argument and which is the best way forward in education for our children.

[aggi]

This is going to be a dilemma for some. The doyen of National Conservatism's education policy "playing the race card"

BBC News - Jess Phillips is not racist, Labour's Bridget Phillipson says after online row
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66081242

[BurnleyFC]

I don’t care what political party she represents, but I cannot stand Jess Phillips.

She’s such a smug cow.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I don’t think this Birbalsingh woman is well.

Sad to see really. I think she needs help. Not just with this issue.

[Lancasterclaret]

There is no way I'd let her teach my kids

[CrosspoolClarets]

I find her voice annoying but her beliefs are spot on, I’d love to have her as my family’s headmistress.

Discipline.
Grit.
Resilience.
Knowledge.
Pride in country, town and school.
Personal responsibility.

Anybody not believing in those things I would find disturbing but too many of our teachers (and parents) do not. That is fertile breeding ground for all the wet, woke, snowflakes to bloom from. The kind Jess Phillips seems to love. I found that Twitter tirade against Berbelsingh crass, offensive and unfitting of someone in public office. Starmer has to be careful or he will lose an unloseable election.

[bfcjg]

Having a relation who's a teacher there are times when they are almost likecsocial workers,crowd control experts etc before they can even start some days. Education should start at home,should be encouraged and nurtured at home but sadly there are to many crap parents be they to busy making money so don't spend time with children or to bone idol to give a sod about their children. Standards and expectations should be set high but alas without parental back up teachers are p1ssing in the wind.

[Lancasterclaret]

I find her voice annoying but her beliefs are spot on, I’d love to have her as my family’s headmistress.

Discipline.
Grit.
Resilience.
Knowledge.
Pride in country, town and school.
Personal responsibility.

Anybody not believing in those things I would find disturbing but too many of our teachers (and parents) do not. That is fertile breeding ground for all the wet, woke, snowflakes to bloom from. The kind Jess Phillips seems to love. I found that Twitter tirade against Berbelsingh crass, offensive and unfitting of someone in public office. Starmer has to be careful or he will lose an unloseable election.

Uh huh

Its perfectly possible to believe all that without being completely bonkers though

[Bordeauxclaret]

She’s apparently crying about people calling her political now on Twitter.
Just a couple of weeks after speaking at that Nat C political conference.

Hopefully her friends or family step in and have a word at some point.

[taio]

I think she leads a school that's rated outstanding by Ofsted and their exam performance is impressive

[Rowls]

There is no way I'd let her teach my kids

Me neither but she's a labour MP with a relationship to reality akin to that of Boris Johnson.

She also lacks 90% of Johnson's charisma and (to my knowledge) is not a qualified teacher.

[jdrobbo]

I think she leads a school that's rated outstanding by Ofsted and their exam performance is impressive

Please, please, please, do not believe a word that Ofsted says, PLEASE. It’s agenda-driven nonsense. The whole system is a sham. This woman is disgraceful. The way she has been known to speak and treat fellow-professionals is disgusting.

[Rowls]

I don’t think this Birbalsingh woman is well.

Sad to see really. I think she needs help. Not just with this issue.

She is managing the school in England with the highest GCSE scores (graded against social background).

She is THE definition of somebody doing well and living a fulfilling life if purpose, dedication and duty.

Katherine Birbalsingh ought to be lauded by every side of the political divide. What is most telling about her spectacular success is that naysayers and mudslingers like yourself are reduced to vague insinuations like "she's not well" when her school is succeeding beyond parallel in the English school system.

If every school had a Katherine Birbalsingh we'd eliminate half of societies problems in a single generation.

The results speak for themselves.

[taio]

Please, please, please, do not believe a word that Ofsted says, PLEASE. It’s agenda-driven nonsense. The whole system is a sham. This woman is disgraceful. The way she has been known to speak and treat fellow-professionals is disgusting.

Even if you don't feel their Ofsted report is accurate their exam performance is consistently excellent I believe

[Rowls]

Please, please, please, do not believe a word that Ofsted says, PLEASE. It’s agenda-driven nonsense. The whole system is a sham. This woman is disgraceful. The way she has been known to speak and treat fellow-professionals is disgusting.

In terms of the Michaela school, jdrobbo, you dont need to "believe" what ofsted says.

You can also view their GCSE results, A Level results, university admissions, SAT scores, or even the government's method of measuring how much a school raises pupils beyond their "expected" grade.

Katherine Birbalsingh might be possibly curt, she might be forthright. You might think her "disgraceful" but you haven't provided any information to back up this claim.

If she has said anything "disgusting" then tell us what it is. She always appears polite and firm to me. You can believe she is "disgusting" but that is subjective

What is much less subjective is the positive outcomes she is achieving with and for very under privileged children.

Unless somebody like yourself can give concrete examples to back up your assertion that Katherine Birbalsingh is "disgraceful" then as long as she continues to deliver the bright prospects and outstanding grades to inner city children I shall continue to support her and her methods.

For the good of disadvantaged, poor, inner city kids who without Katherine Birbalsingh might be condemned to a life of misery.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'd listen to what Jd says btw, its quite important to listen to experts

[taio]

I'd listen to what Jd says btw, its quite important to listen to experts

There are at least two other teachers on this thread who showed support for her methods

[Lancasterclaret]

There are at least two other teachers on this thread who showed support for her methods

Good for them

I can tell she is some peoples idea of what a good teacher should be, and that is perfectly fine for them.

Not my idea though

She's had a good 24 hours on twitter don't you think?

Coming across really well?

[aggi]

She is managing the school in England with the highest GCSE scores (graded against social background).

She is THE definition of somebody doing well and living a fulfilling life if purpose, dedication and duty.

Katherine Birbalsingh ought to be lauded by every side of the political divide. What is most telling about her spectacular success is that naysayers and mudslingers like yourself are reduced to vague insinuations like "she's not well" when her school is succeeding beyond parallel in the English school system.

If every school had a Katherine Birbalsingh we'd eliminate half of societies problems in a single generation.

The results speak for themselves.

Up until now you've always been very evasive when I've asked for actual evidence of her long running track record of success (or even what metric you were using to judge success) but I guess this is something you can actually provide a link to?

[taio]

Good for them

I can tell she is some peoples idea of what a good teacher should be, and that is perfectly fine for them.

Not my idea though

She's had a good 24 hours on twitter don't you think?

Coming across really well?

'Good for them' - seems pretty glib and dismissive given the emphasis you've just placed on listening to experts.

Dunno what's been said on twitter in the last 24 hours

[Lancasterclaret]

'Good for them' - seems pretty glib and dismissive given the emphasis you've just placed on listening to experts.

Dunno what's been said on twitter in the last 24 hours

Didn't mean to be

Worth a read, and that is why Bordeaux thinks she needs help

I just think its a terrible look for her and she'd be better taking a break from twitter rather on doubling down on stuff she is very wrong about

[Volvoclaret]

Don't worry guys, after the next election Diane Abbott will be in charge of education and all kids will be sent to public schools.

[Beagle]

Don't worry guys, after the next election Diane Abbott will be in charge of education and all kids will be sent to public schools.

Do you people have any political knowledge or insight beyond boring and unfunny references to Diane Abbott, most especially when there’s no relevance to her whatsoever?