McNeil

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Rileybobs
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Re: McNeil

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 22, 2022 11:18 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:10 pm
I think McNeil will go on to prove a lot of our fans wrong. Playing in our setup he's been basically playing with one arm tied behind his back. Statuesque centre forwards who barely move and midfielders who treat the ball as if it's a live grenade aren't exactly helpful for creative players.
Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I’d be absolutely amazed if a club like Leicester came in for him though.

He’s been playing in a relatively poor side, of that there is no question. It hasn’t held Cornet back though, a player who I would consider is technically inferior to McNeil. Even Lennon has ended the season with a better output than McNeil.

I hope we keep him as there’s a good player in there with a lot of time on his side, and one who I expect would benefit from a season in the Championship (I’m not presuming we’ll only be there for one season). But McNeil’s lack of creativity this season is as much to blame for our relegation as any other part of our team. This idea that he’s playing with his hands behind his back or carrying the team is very much exaggerated.

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Re: McNeil

Post by IanMcL » Mon May 23, 2022 12:25 am

Stevie Morgan wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:25 pm
I'm convinced be need to play centrally.
I am convinced his one footedness makes that too dangerous.

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Re: McNeil

Post by ashtonlongsider » Mon May 23, 2022 7:23 am

McNeil's been poor for more than this season bar the odd game or two. Very inconsistent and I would suggest a confidence player. Another who I feel will still be with us for next season unless a very good offer comes in and I think it unlikely. He could benefit from a season in the Championship and so could we.

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Re: McNeil

Post by RVclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 7:40 am

Id love him to stay in the Champ as he’d kill it, especially under a new, more progressive manager. But equally if I’m a Pl club like Bournemouth, Southampton or even Everton, I’m absolutely all over picking him up for 15/20m.

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Re: McNeil

Post by agreenwood » Mon May 23, 2022 7:44 am

He’s a talented player who has had a poor season. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that he’s still only 22 and that he’s been part of a midfield and strike force that has generally declined to a point where it has lacked cohesion for the past 18 months. It was always going to be a lot to ask him to carry the ageing legs around him.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Belial » Mon May 23, 2022 7:56 am

Decent teams long since figured out that if you stick two players in front of him, he turns backwards. Of course he hasn't been helped by a lack of movement from the team in front of him, but if he can somehow figure out how to get past that - whether that includes 1-2s with a wingback or CM for example, then he's a great player when given opportunities. One thing he goes need to up his game with is tracking back in some situations. The championship might help him figure these out

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Re: McNeil

Post by helmclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 7:58 am

IanMcL wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:25 am
I am convinced his one footedness makes that too dangerous.
Paul Cook.

One footed and one of the most cultured central midfielders I seen play for us.

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Re: McNeil

Post by jsclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 8:19 am

claretspice wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 9:18 pm
Yup, the place from which he produced that world class pass. Like him drifting from the right, and like him off the front centrally, and in the Championship I think he's be fine in a central midfield 2 or 3.

But I'm done with trying to defend the kid. Hes been pretty good for us for 4 years you know.
.
His best work yesterday and this season has been drifting in from the right especially with Roberts bombing forward on the outside and giving him an option. I don't know why we changed that for most of the game yesterday.
Macneil and Roberts on the right side in the Championship will be excellent

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Re: McNeil

Post by RVclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 8:23 am

jsclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 8:19 am
His best work yesterday and this season has been drifting in from the right especially with Roberts bombing forward on the outside and giving him an option. I don't know why we changed that for most of the game yesterday.
Macneil and Roberts on the right side in the Championship will be excellent
Absolutely agree. They’d looked really good together recently. Even against Villa at home when we lost, first half they were still our biggest threat. Jackson was clearly worried about ASM yesterday and played Collins and Roberts, quite a negative move I felt.

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Re: McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 8:43 am

IanMcL wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:25 am
I am convinced his one footedness makes that too dangerous.
Why is it only left footed players who are deemed to be too one footed? Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard all grand, left footers…. Oh he’s too one footed.
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Re: McNeil

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 23, 2022 8:47 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 8:43 am
Why is it only left footed players who are deemed to be too one footed? Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard all grand, left footers…. Oh he’s too one footed.
They could all use their other foot to shoot, pass (more than passing backwards to a goalkeeper), trap a ball, and also put it on to the other foot and pull a defender a different way.

McNeil can’t, he runs in circles and puts himself under pressure and is a lot easier to defend against.

Watch how Barton and Defour used to take the ball on the half turn in every which direction when they played for us and compare it with McNeil - it’s chalk and cheese.
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Re: McNeil

Post by jedi_master » Mon May 23, 2022 8:54 am

McNeil in the Championship will be a Koumas at West Brom level joke, in my opinion. I think we should expect ten goals and as many assists from him down there, and that should be the sort of marker he sets himself. Vital we keep him, and I think we will. He has been one of many who has been poor this season and I think will actually benefit hugely from the a season in a league to regain his confidence.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon May 23, 2022 8:55 am

I don't think Dwight knows himself what he is.
He wants to play Central, come in from the right....the only place he was ever consistent was on the left. Instead of learning new tricks, he would be better served improving his old ones.
On the right all the defender has to do is show him the outside, because they know as well as we do, that he has no right peg.
In the middle he is far too weak in the tackle. He has his moments, but nowhere near often enough.
On the left, if he works, and concentrates at it, he could still be our biggest game changer. He needs to rediscover how to take a man on and whip the ball in early.
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Re: McNeil

Post by gawthorpe_view » Mon May 23, 2022 9:09 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:17 pm
Where does he go from here?
To the left wing, not centre mid, not right wing, left wing.

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Re: McNeil

Post by RVclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 9:15 am

gawthorpe_view wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:09 am
To the left wing, not centre mid, not right wing, left wing.
I just can’t believe there are people, who have watched him this season, still think he should be on the left. It’s such a disappointing lack of football knowledge. Part of the reason we were so s*** yesterday was because he was back on the left and not the right.

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Re: McNeil

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 23, 2022 9:33 am

Dwight has played in all our PL games this season, that's to be commended, however his stats are dire, 0 goals, and 1 assist (Brentford in October), and for whatever reason his form and confidence has fallen off a cliff in the past couple of seasons, when you'd have hoped he'd be pushing on and improving.

The one benefit for that dip in form might be that we'll retain him for the Champ, where he should be a standout performer, and will hopefully get his career back on track with plenty of goals and assists.

A priority for the new manager is too reinvigorate McNeil and get him enjoying his football again.

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Re: McNeil

Post by boatshed bill » Mon May 23, 2022 9:41 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:15 am
I just can’t believe there are people, who have watched him this season, still think he should be on the left. It’s such a disappointing lack of football knowledge. Part of the reason we were so s*** yesterday was because he was back on the left and not the right.
My disappointing lack of football knowledge suggests that one of the main reasons he's been poor on the left is because very seldom have forwards been showing for the ball or getting in position to attack crosses.

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Re: McNeil

Post by RVclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 9:44 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:41 am
My disappointing lack of football knowledge suggests that one of the main reasons he's been poor on the left is because very seldom have forwards been showing for the ball or getting in position to attack crosses.
Rubbish. He’s often running into blind alleys on the left as he’s nowhere to move to. It makes it a lot easier to defend. Trippier had a field day yesterday as have many others this season on that side. Literally the only move he has there is to be forced down the line on the outside - these are PL full backs he’s up against and they know what they are doing.

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Re: McNeil

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon May 23, 2022 9:52 am

McNeil is one of a number of our players who could do very well in the champ , the likes of Dwight , Taylor , Roberts , Wout, Jay Rod , Brownhill , Collins , Hennessy could all have very good seasons indeed

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Re: McNeil

Post by boatshed bill » Mon May 23, 2022 10:00 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:44 am
Rubbish. He’s often running into blind alleys on the left as he’s nowhere to move to. It makes it a lot easier to defend. Trippier had a field day yesterday as have many others this season on that side. Literally the only move he has there is to be forced down the line on the outside - these are PL full backs he’s up against and they know what they are doing.
I think those blind alleys are being created due to a general lack of movement off the ball.
I totally agree about the defenders knowing what he is most likely to do, but it's not that long ago he was running at them and putting certain ones on their arses. You don't lose that skill.
Space needs to be created, we don't help ourselves.
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Stayingup
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Re: McNeil

Post by Stayingup » Mon May 23, 2022 10:26 am

McNeil is a talented player. He has a good left foot. His right one is purely for standing on. His biggest problem is judgement. When to pass, when to dribble, often he doesn't get that right. Also he doesn't give Taylor support appearing to lope about looking exhausted. He will be better, like a few of our players, with better players aroubd him. Thats obvious.

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Re: McNeil

Post by spt_claret » Mon May 23, 2022 10:52 am

The constant debate on if he's a wide man or central has me wondering if we go Italian and play him as a mezzala, or to be more local, Arfield style narrow winger, but with more emphasis on playmaking than goalscoring.

I doubt we will get to choose however. I suspect clubs will court him and with our finances we will take an offer that feels cheap to fans- but in reality is probably about right given how much hes struggled the past two seasons after a meteoric start to his career.

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Re: McNeil

Post by SalouClaret » Mon May 23, 2022 10:54 am

I think we'd be lucky to get 10 million for him. His development has stalled. Not all his own doing mind.

midsummersday
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Re: McNeil

Post by midsummersday » Mon May 23, 2022 11:07 am

He has been poor all season,very few good days mostly doesn,t turn up ,drifts in and out of games,appears at times to be bored or unintrested
totally one footed,who i have to say ,and turns into trouble more often than not.Our midfield has been poor all season,putting tremendous pressure on our back four,who have mostly done a super job,rarely have we been overrun.We have needed a midfield rebuild for two seasons,which most claret
supporters have been stating as obvious but nothing has changed and now we see the result.
Also for two seasons Barnes has been nowhere near good enough for the premier league.W have been playing top division football with a division 2 team .with obvious exceptions.
I have been a claret all my life and will continue to be so,we have fantastic fans who turned up yesterday to do all they could to try and lift a poor
burnley team,but they were let down by another dismal display.Admit it guys we got we deserved,now we have to go again and try to build a team
that gives passion ,entertainment and a team we can all be proud of again,maybe this could be the turning point.....hope so
BEST WISHES TO ALL CLARETS FANS EVERYWHERE,I KNOW IT HURTS TODAY,BUT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH WORSE
,

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Re: McNeil

Post by DycheAlmighty » Mon May 23, 2022 12:22 pm

Some very negative opinions. I'm in no way comparing the two ability wise, but McNeil has been thrown in the deep end from day one and asked to swim. Jack Grealish had similar issues, too lightweight, inconsistent. Dropping to the champ was the best thing that ever happened to him and now he's winning the Premier League. McNeil is our ONLY academy product, yet he gets treated like rubbish by most of our fans. That player who 'isn't worth a fee now' could potentially be worth millions in years to come.
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Re: McNeil

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:37 pm

Unfortunately he'll fade in the championship imo

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Re: McNeil

Post by Conroy92 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:38 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:31 pm
Up until this season he's been a left winger, and a very good one too.
Whoever decided to move him around and change his role needs to take some blame for his poor season.
Couldn't agree more.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Conroy92 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:44 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:15 am
I just can’t believe there are people, who have watched him this season, still think he should be on the left. It’s such a disappointing lack of football knowledge. Part of the reason we were so s*** yesterday was because he was back on the left and not the right.
The thing is, Dwight hasn't only been around this one season has he. There are plenty of us "with a lack of football knowledge" who have watched him in his previous seasons on the left where he has played well for us and been one of our standout performers. Amazingly, the season he hasn't been a consistent figure on the left, he's struggled.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Quicknick » Mon May 23, 2022 12:44 pm

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:37 pm
Unfortunately he'll fade in the championship imo
He'll be outstanding a level lower.

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Re: McNeil

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 23, 2022 12:46 pm

DycheAlmighty wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:22 pm
Some very negative opinions. I'm in no way comparing the two ability wise, but McNeil has been thrown in the deep end from day one and asked to swim. Jack Grealish had similar issues, too lightweight, inconsistent. Dropping to the champ was the best thing that ever happened to him and now he's winning the Premier League. McNeil is our ONLY academy product, yet he gets treated like rubbish by most of our fans. That player who 'isn't worth a fee now' could potentially be worth millions in years to come.
Some reach putting Grealish & McNeil together as a comparison…

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Re: McNeil

Post by NRC » Mon May 23, 2022 12:50 pm

He has been moved to accommodate Cornet, and let’s face it, Cornet produces goals, McNeil doesn’t so it’s right to do so. As has been said though, home playing right with an overlapping Roberts or Lowton provides many more options than the blind alleys of trying beat a man in his outside

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Re: McNeil

Post by Conroy92 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:50 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:44 am
Rubbish. He’s often running into blind alleys on the left as he’s nowhere to move to. It makes it a lot easier to defend. Trippier had a field day yesterday as have many others this season on that side. Literally the only move he has there is to be forced down the line on the outside - these are PL full backs he’s up against and they know what they are doing.
Brian Clough used to task his players with specific jobs to positions. What you have said about McNeil that he "can only be forced down the line on the outside" is exactly what Clough asked of his wingers. Get down the line, swing the cross in.
It's what McNeil is good at. The fact he's had 40+ shots this season and not scored shows you just how good he is at cutting in and scoring, its not a facet to his game. We need to use him at what he's good at, getting down the line and swinging the ball in.

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Re: McNeil

Post by randomclaret2 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:52 pm

When did McNeil sign his last, presumably lucrative, contract ? Seems to me he's done precious little since then.

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Re: McNeil

Post by DycheAlmighty » Mon May 23, 2022 12:55 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:46 pm
Some reach putting Grealish & McNeil together as a comparison…
Hence why I said I'm not comparing the two ability wise. But it's fine for you to compare his decision making to Barton, who was a 33 year old experienced pro at the time and Defour who had played 50+ games for Belguim and played in the champions league?

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Re: McNeil

Post by CoolClaret » Mon May 23, 2022 12:56 pm

DycheAlmighty wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:55 pm
Hence why I said I'm not comparing the two ability wise. But it's fine for you to compare his decision making to Barton, who was a 33 year old experienced pro at the time and Defour who had played 50+ games for Belguim and played in the champions league?
I was comparing their ability to take the ball any which way because of their two footedness, I’ve had 4 years of watching McNeil play himself into danger

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Re: McNeil

Post by boyyanno » Mon May 23, 2022 12:57 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:15 am
I just can’t believe there are people, who have watched him this season, still think he should be on the left. It’s such a disappointing lack of football knowledge. Part of the reason we were so s*** yesterday was because he was back on the left and not the right.
With all due respect but that's absolute nonsense. When Dwight was playing on the left and whipping crosses in, he was getting assists, plaudits and rave reviews. As soon as he stopped doing this (either due to tactical reasons or otherwise) he's completely flattered to deceive and offered nothing (well 1 assist).

Given every single statistic goes against you can you actually offer up anything to show that you're even remotely in the ball park with this comment?
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Re: McNeil

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 23, 2022 12:59 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:09 am
To the left wing, not centre mid, not right wing, left wing.
His best performances this season have been on the right though.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Wokingclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 1:02 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:59 pm
His best performances this season have been on the right though.
True, but he needs work on his right leg :o

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Re: McNeil

Post by DycheAlmighty » Mon May 23, 2022 1:04 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:56 pm
I was comparing their ability to take the ball any which way because of their two footedness, I’ve had 4 years of watching McNeil play himself into danger
They've had years to develop their respective games to that level. We were fortunate enough to get them at the end of their education process. Young players take that bit of time to develop and with patience and backing from his fans, they can develop into a Barton or Defour.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Rileybobs » Mon May 23, 2022 1:07 pm

McNeil isn’t really more one-footed than anyone else in the squad, bar Cornet. You won’t see many of our players use their weak foot to pass the ball with any regularity - even the likes of DeBruyne would rather use the outside of their right foot rather than their left. What is noticeable is how he’s unwilling to open up his body in the opposite direction, which is why you often see him turning around in a full circle to protect the ball.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Wokingclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 1:13 pm

"which is why you often see him turning around in a full circle to protect the ball"

Arrgh, yes the Dave Jones maneuver.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Rileybobs » Mon May 23, 2022 1:20 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 1:13 pm
"which is why you often see him turning around in a full circle to protect the ball"

Arrgh, yes the Dave Jones maneuver.
Pretty similar to be fair. Probably more prevalent with McNeil as he carries the ball more than Jones.
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Re: McNeil

Post by Alanstevensonsgloves » Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:32 pm
He's had a poor season, but he essentially our only player who carries the ball and certainly the only one who might get you out of your seat

Dyche has done terrific to bring him in when he did....
But Dyche only brought him in when forced to, was it Brady's injury? File alongside dyche's refusal to play Ben mee as a CB when everyone else was crying out for it

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Re: McNeil

Post by Bullabill » Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 pm

He's got a fair way to go to become good.

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Re: McNeil

Post by claretspice » Mon May 23, 2022 2:01 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:57 pm
With all due respect but that's absolute nonsense. When Dwight was playing on the left and whipping crosses in, he was getting assists, plaudits and rave reviews. As soon as he stopped doing this (either due to tactical reasons or otherwise) he's completely flattered to deceive and offered nothing (well 1 assist).

Given every single statistic goes against you can you actually offer up anything to show that you're even remotely in the ball park with this comment?
Let's nail this 1 assist thing. There are various problems with using that as a measure, but the most obvious is that you only get an assist if someone sticks the ball in the net. So sometimes you'll get an assist for a very basic pass which is followed by a stunning finish, and sometimes you'll not get an assist even when you put it on a plate for a player, if he misses a sitter.

xG and xA stats are very suspect but they are an interesting point of comparison. Accordingly to those stats, McNeil should have 5 assists this season, which suggests he's been unfortunate that others haven't converted - and I can think of 2 or 3 sitters that have been missed from his delivery off the top of my head (Wood at Everton, Cornet at Norwich). That compares to an xA of 5.5 assists last season - so a decline, but not a massive one, particularly given that McNeil has taken fewer set pieces than last season (Cornet has taken more). It doesn't suggest he's been much less productive this season than last. Two seasons ago he achieved an xA of 7.5 - much better. But perhaps that's to be expected, given (i) the team was better then so should have created more chances; and (ii) he was a newer and more unknown quantity.

By way of comparison, the highest rated player for assists in the bottom half is Bryan Mbueno. He only has 7, and he as an xA of 3.3.Having added one yesterday, Saint Maximin has 5 assists - and an xA of 3.8. Phil Foden has an xA of 5.3. By comparison McNeil isn't faring too badly, is he?

I've also never understood the argument that a one footed player should be stuck out on the flank. To my mind, because the touchline cuts down your options, it exacerbates the problem of being one-footed. In the middle of the pitch, you've got the option to dribble both ways, and can pass in all directions. One of McNeil's problems this season has been he's too easily funnelled into a cul-de-sac on the left when teams double up on him, and once he's in it, the only way out is backwards (not least as he's not out and out quick enough to knock it beyond and run) - that's part of teams working him out. And as Dan rightly says, this is an issue which is raised disproportionately about left footed players.

Statistically, he's a good player who has had a quieter season but done far better than his detractors would have us believe. I think a season in the Championship would be good for him, but I also think his output over the last 3 years will have him well in demand this summer.
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Re: McNeil

Post by RVclaret » Mon May 23, 2022 2:06 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:57 pm
With all due respect but that's absolute nonsense. When Dwight was playing on the left and whipping crosses in, he was getting assists, plaudits and rave reviews. As soon as he stopped doing this (either due to tactical reasons or otherwise) he's completely flattered to deceive and offered nothing (well 1 assist).

Given every single statistic goes against you can you actually offer up anything to show that you're even remotely in the ball park with this comment?
Spice just gave pretty much the perfect answer to your question above.

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Re: McNeil

Post by boyyanno » Mon May 23, 2022 2:17 pm

claretspice wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 2:01 pm
Let's nail this 1 assist thing. There are various problems with using that as a measure, but the most obvious is that you only get an assist if someone sticks the ball in the net. So sometimes you'll get an assist for a very basic pass which is followed by a stunning finish, and sometimes you'll not get an assist even when you put it on a plate for a player, if he misses a sitter.

xG and xA stats are very suspect but they are an interesting point of comparison. Accordingly to those stats, McNeil should have 5 assists this season, which suggests he's been unfortunate that others haven't converted - and I can think of 2 or 3 sitters that have been missed from his delivery off the top of my head (Wood at Everton, Cornet at Norwich). That compares to an xA of 5.5 assists last season - so a decline, but not a massive one, particularly given that McNeil has taken fewer set pieces than last season (Cornet has taken more). It doesn't suggest he's been much less productive this season than last. Two seasons ago he achieved an xA of 7.5 - much better. But perhaps that's to be expected, given (i) the team was better then so should have created more chances; and (ii) he was a newer and more unknown quantity.

By way of comparison, the highest rated player for assists in the bottom half is Bryan Mbueno. He only has 7, and he as an xA of 3.3.Having added one yesterday, Saint Maximin has 5 assists - and an xA of 3.8. Phil Foden has an xA of 5.3. By comparison McNeil isn't faring too badly, is he?

I've also never understood the argument that a one footed player should be stuck out on the flank. To my mind, because the touchline cuts down your options, it exacerbates the problem of being one-footed. In the middle of the pitch, you've got the option to dribble both ways, and can pass in all directions. One of McNeil's problems this season has been he's too easily funnelled into a cul-de-sac on the left when teams double up on him, and once he's in it, the only way out is backwards (not least as he's not out and out quick enough to knock it beyond and run) - that's part of teams working him out. And as Dan rightly says, this is an issue which is raised disproportionately about left footed players.

Statistically, he's a good player who has had a quieter season but done far better than his detractors would have us believe. I think a season in the Championship would be good for him, but I also think his output over the last 3 years will have him well in demand this summer.
When it comes to McNeil you are the most biased person on this forum, so you'll forgive me for taking what you say with a massive pinch of salt. We have debated him on a number of threads throughout the season and whilst I appreciate your viewpoint my opinion has not changed, nor has McNeil himself produced enough or shown enough to suggest that he will ever be more effective in any other role than the one he enjoyed his early success with us in.

My argument is not that McNeil should be stuck out on the flank because he is one footed, its that he should be playing there because that's the position he has been most successful in for us, that's a fact, his assists, plaudits and everything else came when he was hugging the touchline and whipping in balls. I don't think anyone can disagree with that can they?

Your opinion may be that he will be a better player centrally, but the facts are as I've said above, we enjoyed the most success with Dwight when he was doing his best David Beckham from the left hand side of the pitch. This season he hasn't done well on the left, but his role has changed significantly and I stand by what iv'e said all season which is that he needs to go back to basics to rediscover what made him successful initially.

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Re: McNeil

Post by boyyanno » Mon May 23, 2022 2:18 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 2:06 pm
Spice just gave pretty much the perfect answer to your question above.
Spice is advocating playing McNeil in the centre, not the RH/s of the pitch like yourself.

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Re: McNeil

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon May 23, 2022 2:24 pm

confidence is king with someone like Dwight but I have been really disappointed with his attitude in quite a few games this last 2 years.

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Re: McNeil

Post by claretspice » Mon May 23, 2022 2:31 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 2:17 pm
When it comes to McNeil you are the most biased person on this forum, so you'll forgive me for taking what you say with a massive pinch of salt. We have debated him on a number of threads throughout the season and whilst I appreciate your viewpoint my opinion has not changed, nor has McNeil himself produced enough or shown enough to suggest that he will ever be more effective in any other role than the one he enjoyed his early success with us in.

My argument is not that McNeil should be stuck out on the flank because he is one footed, its that he should be playing there because that's the position he has been most successful in for us, that's a fact, his assists, plaudits and everything else came when he was hugging the touchline and whipping in balls. I don't think anyone can disagree with that can they?

Your opinion may be that he will be a better player centrally, but the facts are as I've said above, we enjoyed the most success with Dwight when he was doing his best David Beckham from the left hand side of the pitch. This season he hasn't done well on the left, but his role has changed significantly and I stand by what iv'e said all season which is that he needs to go back to basics to rediscover what made him successful initially.
"Biased". Good grief.

I've quoted objective measures of performance which don't bear out your logic. I agree that, historically, he got plenty of assists playing down the left hand side. I've also explained why I think that has dried up. And I'm not saying he should absolutely play centrally - I'd certainly like to try see him used as a 10, but I'm also fine with him drifting from the right hand side.

If you think he'd be better off playing off the left a la Beckham - no problem at all. I disagree because I think the game has moved on in the last 20 years, but perfectly respect that opinion. What I take issue with is the insistence of some of our supporters in belittling his contribution this season by reference to skewed statistics. They could just as easily reference that 2 of the last 3 goals we've scored from open play this season at home (Wolves and yesterday) have been created by passes one back from the assist from McNeil - one to Weghorst, one to Collins. Those were really the passes that created the goal; why ignore them in favour of focusing on the fact that statistically, he's only got one assist all season? Only you know.

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