1. Difference between Prem and Champ quality, particularly in midfield, is huge but 2. It seems clear it’s an area they are looking to add to anyway with the links so far.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:04 amIt’s all good banter roasting KRBFC for that but his point stands. Our midfield was abysmal for 90% of the season last year. It’s got to be an area that’s improved upon this window.
Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
There's only one expert here and I haven't seriously played a football manager game since Championship manager on the Playstation 2. I'm sure you've made this stupid point numerous times before, like the only way to know anything about foreign football is through a football manager game. Not like all of the games aren't streamed on various websites.Juan Tanamera wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:04 amIt costs the sharp end of £10k for a UEFA Pro Licence.
Our resident 'experts' pay around £40 for Football Manager.
Make what you will of that.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
We need a player for every postion, even if it's just back up, so a minimum of 11 please Mr KompanyVino blanco wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:11 amI still think we need to replace Cork, Westwood, Barnes amd Rodriguez, who are all too old now for a season in the Championship. Am I asking for too much?
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Yes. I think JR will be fine this season. Barnes will be a good impact sub depending on how the game is going. Cork might not manage every game, but he'll be excellent against Championship sides. Ditto with Westwood when he returns.Vino blanco wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:11 amI still think we need to replace Cork, Westwood, Barnes amd Rodriguez, who are all too old now for a season in the Championship. Am I asking for too much?
All 4 have a very important part to play this season.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Don't think they will dominate possession but I certainly think they can help us win games.
Is the partnership of Cork and Brownhill much different to that of Jones and Marney? Jones was good at finding the simple passes in the same way as Cork is with Brownhill providing the energy. Will be interesting to see if Kompany thinks Brownhills passing is good enough for his system.
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So you're the only expert on here?KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:13 amThere's only one expert here and I haven't seriously played a football manager game since Championship manager on the Playstation 2. I'm sure you've made this stupid point numerous times before, like the only way to know anything about foreign football is through a football manager game. Not like all of the games aren't streamed on various websites.
Congratulations!
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Off the ball the PL is a different beast, on the ball Brownhill couldn't pass wind. This idea he's gonna suddenly turn into Xavi is hilarious. He has his qualities does Brownhill, running, interceptions, hard work, I also think when he's confident and feeling himself he can carry the ball into the final third looking dangerous, the problem with Brownhill comes when he has to do something with the ball, his passing is really poor.
Carrying the ball into the final third and then giving it away with a poor pass (when playing in a midfield 2) is a really bad mix, leaves you out of position consistently and sets the opposition away on the counter attack.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Jones was very underrated by many fans and people forget he contributed to our win over QPR putting us up with a precision cross that Sam buried
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
You keep repeating the same Football Manager rubbish, like it's so crazy a football fan would take interest in another league.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Rodriguez has 3 goals in his last 60 games but people think he's gonna start smashing them in, unrealistic, zero recent evidence of that. We need a goalscorer.Smile wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:16 amYes. I think JR will be fine this season. Barnes will be a good impact sub depending on how the game is going. Cork might not manage every game, but he'll be excellent against Championship sides. Ditto with Westwood when he returns.
All 4 have a very important part to play this season.
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He did score 22 league goals in the Championship the season before we signed him. I think if we're going for this big attacking philosophy VK played at Anderlecht then he could have a good season.
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People questioning whether Cork is too old … he is incredibly fit and you can just tell he is a complete professional. Think Kompany will see him as a key player this year tbh.
We were much better with him than without him last year, and the championship is a long way off the standard required in the premier league.
My real concern for the season ahead is losing Collins. I like the youth coming in, but I’d be a lot more confident of a quick return with Collins than without.
We were much better with him than without him last year, and the championship is a long way off the standard required in the premier league.
My real concern for the season ahead is losing Collins. I like the youth coming in, but I’d be a lot more confident of a quick return with Collins than without.
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I think you'll be hard pressed to find where I've mentioned Football Manager before.
On the other hand, if you want to search for comments where you take yourself so seriously, you'll find hundreds of examples.
Anyhow, I'm off out for a birthday meal with my grandson and family.
Have a nice day.
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I find the disrespect and undervaluing of our players quite baffling.UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:28 amHe did score 22 league goals in the Championship the season before we signed him. I think if we're going for this big attacking philosophy VK played at Anderlecht then he could have a good season.
Both JRod and Barnes are very solid finishers. In an attacking team in the Championship, where they’ll get that extra split second of time and the Keepers are far inferior, they’d both do very well. Maybe not 20+ but possibly.
I do think we need at least one more striker, assuming Twine plays off them. Two if he’s intended to be more of a midfielder. And someone with pace as that’s not going to be either JRod or Barnes’ forte, but they’ll do okay for us if not.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Absolutely. Far too much of the same crap by the same poster further up about Jay. He'll be absolutely fine in the Championship.NewClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:43 amI find the disrespect and undervaluing of our players quite baffling.
Both JRod and Barnes are very solid finishers. In an attacking team in the Championship, where they’ll get that extra split second of time and the Keepers are far inferior, they’d both do very well. Maybe not 20+ but possibly.
I do think we need at least one more striker, assuming Twine plays off them. Two if he’s intended to be more of a midfielder. And someone with pace as that’s not going to be either JRod or Barnes’ forte, but they’ll do okay for us if not.
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It’s Jay injury problems I worry about
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Baffling but also worrying If it was a view shared by many of the fan base.NewClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:43 amI find the disrespect and undervaluing of our players quite baffling.
Both JRod and Barnes are very solid finishers. In an attacking team in the Championship, where they’ll get that extra split second of time and the Keepers are far inferior, they’d both do very well. Maybe not 20+ but possibly.
I do think we need at least one more striker, assuming Twine plays off them. Two if he’s intended to be more of a midfielder. And someone with pace as that’s not going to be either JRod or Barnes’ forte, but they’ll do okay for us if not.
Think we are going to need to be patient this year. It won’t all click straight away, but the fans staying with the team does make a difference, particularly when it is likely we’re going to have a few young lads cutting their teeth.
I’m optimistic, but also realistic.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Exactly Elizabeth, both Jay and Barnes are injury prone, which comrs with age. The same goes for Westwood and Cork in midfield. All this about them being fine in the Championship is a load of old bullocks.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Dominating possession isn't technically taxing, it's a system issue. Cork and Brownhill will easily be able to be part of a team that dominated possession as long as the system they are deployed in is correctly drilled to do so.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
The difference in the leagues will make a massive impact on Brownhill. In the PL the pressing is constant and fast, in the Championship he will have that second longer to make his passes. He was captain at Brizzle so must have something about him for our current level.KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:19 amOff the ball the PL is a different beast, on the ball Brownhill couldn't pass wind. This idea he's gonna suddenly turn into Xavi is hilarious. He has his qualities does Brownhill, running, interceptions, hard work, I also think when he's confident and feeling himself he can carry the ball into the final third looking dangerous, the problem with Brownhill comes when he has to do something with the ball, his passing is really poor.
Carrying the ball into the final third and then giving it away with a poor pass (when playing in a midfield 2) is a really bad mix, leaves you out of position consistently and sets the opposition away on the counter attack.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
7 in his last 33.
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Is that inc sub appearances or per minutes?
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Not sure where the idea of the Championship being slower than the PL comes from. The pressing in the Championship is more relentless as players with less technical ability make up for it with physical prowess. Brownhill is a good example of this. The teams that came up all pressed non-stop.
The PL is far faster when players are on the.break but the general tempo of games, especially with the top teams, is usually far slower
The PL is far faster when players are on the.break but the general tempo of games, especially with the top teams, is usually far slower
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Completley agree. Its one of the reasons we were able to punch above our weight really as we brought that high intensity pressure from the Championship into the PL.SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:23 pmNot sure where the idea of the Championship being slower than the PL comes from. The pressing in the Championship is more relentless as players with less technical ability make up for it with physical prowess. Brownhill is a good example of this. The teams that came up all pressed non-stop.
The PL is far faster when players are on the.break but the general tempo of games, especially with the top teams, is usually far slower
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Their presence, and experience, in the squad and on the pitch will be invaluable this season. They might not be the most gifted, or fittest, but they'll stay calm in a storm, and never let their heads drop. We'll need that.Vino blanco wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:11 amI still think we need to replace Cork, Westwood, Barnes amd Rodriguez, who are all too old now for a season in the Championship. Am I asking for too much?
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
That's the spirit! Good to see a stiff upper lip in the face of the enemy.Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:46 pmTheir presence, and experience, in the squad and on the pitch will be invaluable this season. They might not be the most gifted, or fittest, but they'll stay calm in a storm, and never let their heads drop. We'll need that.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
The first thing I noticed in 2009, was how much quicker the prem was. The players were unbelievably faster, they moved the ball faster. The championship isn't like that. It's why teams like Norwich and Watford bounce back so often. They aren't good enough for the prem, but too good for the championship.Vino blanco wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:56 amExactly Elizabeth, both Jay and Barnes are injury prone, which comrs with age. The same goes for Westwood and Cork in midfield. All this about them being fine in the Championship is a load of old bullocks.
Jay, Barnes, Cork will all be fine so long as they stay injury free.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Yes, you probably are asking too much...I still think we need to replace Cork, Westwood, Barnes and Rodriguez, who are all too old now for a season in the Championship. Am I asking for too much?
Even without replacing those 4 players that you just mentioned, we are likely to have close to 10 new players coming in.
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I hope you are right about Jay, Barnes and Cork in the Championship. I think you are wrong but time will tell. I was shouting for Cork to play last season when Westwood and Brownhill were our midfield two, but only because he was, in my opinion, better than the other two, ie the best of a bad bunch. If Jay and Barnes were to be in our starting eleven at Huddersfield, I would be disappointed.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Correct and it comes from short memories. Both our last promotion seasons we pressed like hell and from the front, it was remarked in the media that we took influence from German pressing (the Gegenpresse that is now so popular). We kept at it for years in the PL- Boyd exemplified it best but we had players covering insane ground. It made up for technical shortcomings, but as we lost the pressers and struggled to replace them with sufficient quality technical players we got more and more reserved and limited.SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:23 pmNot sure where the idea of the Championship being slower than the PL comes from. The pressing in the Championship is more relentless as players with less technical ability make up for it with physical prowess. Brownhill is a good example of this. The teams that came up all pressed non-stop.
The PL is far faster when players are on the.break but the general tempo of games, especially with the top teams, is usually far slower
The idea that possession control isn't dictated by technical ability is also ludicrous. Yes, formations or systems help, yes the mental side of being able to maintain composure to spot and make the right decisions under pressure is important, but so is the technical ability to reliably receive and distribute the ball at speed and accuracy with minimal touches, room to move or time. These are technical skills. Spain and Barcelona didn't dominate because of a magic system anymore than City do- they have outstanding technical players in midfield, Xavi and Iniesta had tremendous ball control. Busquets may have been a deeper lying enforcer but he was still leaps above any midfielder we've had except maybe Defour in technical ability.
Im sure Kompany knows this, will work out our players strengths, and either adapt the system or seek signings to enable his preferred style. But as it stands I would be surprised to see Cork and Brownhill dominate teams in midfield, in 442, 433, 4222, 4231 or whatever other system you pick. They will do better at this level of course but that's not the same as dominating.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Not strictly true. Systems are all well and good but the ability to pass the ball to a team mate is more important to making any system work.
Cork , absolutely. Brownhill will have to prove he can improve which I expect he will at a lower level.
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Big differences in the prem from the championship are firstly space, prem midfielders are great at marking space, they are thinking quicker & shutdown the space & limit forward balls, forward players whether strikers or attacking midfielders can carry the ball so quickly from their own box. Something I hope we can use to our advantage in the championship.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Not sure this thread is about transfers any longer, but there's a few interesting themes knocking about.
First up - I think there are some assumptions being made as to the style of football Kompany will adopt. I don't doubt he'll want us to be more possession-based, and perhaps therefore more patient, than Dyche generally did. But I don't think the only alternative to that is that we play in the image of Howe's Burnley. I think it's quite likely that he'll adopt something in between, not least because from what I've seen of the Championship, that's generally been a successful formula in recent years - and also because of what he's said to date in his interviews, which have suggested an equal premium on aggression and winning the physical battle. So the re-education of us as supporters may not need to be as profound as is being suggested.
Secondly - I also think the ability of players who might well have been coming to the end of their useful life in the Premier League to remain excellent Championship players is also being under-estimated. Rodriguez and Cork in particular can be expected to be players whose technical ability will come to the fore at this level.
For what it's worth, I think that Cork is well suited either to the holding role in Kompany's system, but could equally drop back to play in the back four alongside one of the various inexperienced centre halves it looks like we'll have to choose from if Collins leaves. He's got all the attributes for that, including leadership, and it's not uncommon for players of his ilk to drop back in their later years. Equally, I think we might well see Rodriguez dropping in more this season and linking the play. He's a natural 10 and that gives us options, given that Twine (whilst seemingly a good signing) is making a significant step up).
I also don't agree with the criticism of Brownhill. Certainly, his weakness occasionally can be the quality of his passing - I think technically he's pretty good but he can be careless on the ball. In a team that wants to play tiki-taka - that might be a problem, but as above I'm not sure we know that's the intent (and in any event, the difference in the Championship is not so much the pace of the game, but the fact that a mislaid pass is not such a big deal because counter-attacks are less effective and the ball turned over far more). In a team that wants to play a more moderate style, I think he's the sort of player (like Dean Marney was) whose effectiveness directly correlates to the technical ability of those around him. Pair him with players who can manipulate the ball (McNeil, Cork, etc.) and he can do the physical work of a couple of players because he's very strong, very quick and he makes very intelligent runs, and he can keep the ball moving between those technically gifted players. If Kompany has any sense, he'll want a Brownhill, and a Cork, to look after the footballers he's bringing in.
Finally - we'll lose more players this summer - that's a given. It might be Collins, it might be McNeil, it might be both. If we lose those big players then we'll need to bring in players of a different calibre than the ones we've been linked with or signed so far. Those players are good and exciting and do an excellent job of layering up the squad in the way Dyche always talked about, but if we're serious about trying for a quick return we'll need to sign some proven quality at some point. But perhaps there's little point in worrying about that yet because so much remains up in the air.
First up - I think there are some assumptions being made as to the style of football Kompany will adopt. I don't doubt he'll want us to be more possession-based, and perhaps therefore more patient, than Dyche generally did. But I don't think the only alternative to that is that we play in the image of Howe's Burnley. I think it's quite likely that he'll adopt something in between, not least because from what I've seen of the Championship, that's generally been a successful formula in recent years - and also because of what he's said to date in his interviews, which have suggested an equal premium on aggression and winning the physical battle. So the re-education of us as supporters may not need to be as profound as is being suggested.
Secondly - I also think the ability of players who might well have been coming to the end of their useful life in the Premier League to remain excellent Championship players is also being under-estimated. Rodriguez and Cork in particular can be expected to be players whose technical ability will come to the fore at this level.
For what it's worth, I think that Cork is well suited either to the holding role in Kompany's system, but could equally drop back to play in the back four alongside one of the various inexperienced centre halves it looks like we'll have to choose from if Collins leaves. He's got all the attributes for that, including leadership, and it's not uncommon for players of his ilk to drop back in their later years. Equally, I think we might well see Rodriguez dropping in more this season and linking the play. He's a natural 10 and that gives us options, given that Twine (whilst seemingly a good signing) is making a significant step up).
I also don't agree with the criticism of Brownhill. Certainly, his weakness occasionally can be the quality of his passing - I think technically he's pretty good but he can be careless on the ball. In a team that wants to play tiki-taka - that might be a problem, but as above I'm not sure we know that's the intent (and in any event, the difference in the Championship is not so much the pace of the game, but the fact that a mislaid pass is not such a big deal because counter-attacks are less effective and the ball turned over far more). In a team that wants to play a more moderate style, I think he's the sort of player (like Dean Marney was) whose effectiveness directly correlates to the technical ability of those around him. Pair him with players who can manipulate the ball (McNeil, Cork, etc.) and he can do the physical work of a couple of players because he's very strong, very quick and he makes very intelligent runs, and he can keep the ball moving between those technically gifted players. If Kompany has any sense, he'll want a Brownhill, and a Cork, to look after the footballers he's bringing in.
Finally - we'll lose more players this summer - that's a given. It might be Collins, it might be McNeil, it might be both. If we lose those big players then we'll need to bring in players of a different calibre than the ones we've been linked with or signed so far. Those players are good and exciting and do an excellent job of layering up the squad in the way Dyche always talked about, but if we're serious about trying for a quick return we'll need to sign some proven quality at some point. But perhaps there's little point in worrying about that yet because so much remains up in the air.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Fascinating analysis on here..............EXPERTS giving their free advice...............Don't think so. I very rarely give free advice - only to clients or friends making specific enquiries. Can some on here please keep their 'informed opinions' to themselves. Limit to rumours, links and LIMITED discussion on those?
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Agree with ClaretSpice but “proven quality” isn’t more important than “quality”, it is just a bigger unknown. Some of the younger lads may deliver immediately, I agree that is a big risk, but if they do we could thrive.
It is experience and nous that we need, luckily we still have plenty and most players who could leave are the ones with less of it.
It is experience and nous that we need, luckily we still have plenty and most players who could leave are the ones with less of it.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Are you familiar with the workings of a football messageboard?jackmiggins wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:37 pmFascinating analysis on here..............EXPERTS giving their free advice...............Don't think so. I very rarely give free advice - only to clients or friends making specific enquiries. Can some on here please keep their 'informed opinions' to themselves. Limit to rumours, links and LIMITED discussion on those?
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
All the talk about Collins and 30-40 million etc etc - still only fit to lace Tarks boots up - so if Tarks had 2 years left and we have clubs queuing up - how much ?
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Imagine bringing up figures from 5 years ago lolUpTheClaretsFCBK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:28 amHe did score 22 league goals in the Championship the season before we signed him. I think if we're going for this big attacking philosophy VK played at Anderlecht then he could have a good season.
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I'm talking about league games, not cup games against Rochdale
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Agree with that but what you're underpinning is that proven quality entails three things - bankability (less risk of failure - even the best judges are guessing about the ability of players to adapt to the Championship if they're coming from a different league), less adjustment factor (i.e. any player coming from a different league may well need time to adapt), and the know how that you've accumulated whilst proving yourself.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:39 pmAgree with ClaretSpice but “proven quality” isn’t more important than “quality”, it is just a bigger unknown. Some of the younger lads may deliver immediately, I agree that is a big risk, but if they do we could thrive.
It is experience and nous that we need, luckily we still have plenty and most players who could leave are the ones with less of it.
All are essential to any team looking for promotion. Roberts, Taylor, Cork, Westwood (when fit), Brownhill, JBG, Rodriguez and Barnes give us a good base in that regard but if we're losing someone like McNeil, we need someone who can come in and pick up that mantle quickly. Likewise - Cornet. If Collins goes we'll either need that more experienced centre back or to drop Cork back, and in that case we'll probably need something else in midfield.
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So your stat was wrong then. Cool.
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Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Brownhill is rubbish yet there are reports of a number of Prem clubs wanting him? Who to believe!!
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
Isn’t including those games better as it provides a fairer balance to things? After all, the gap between the PL and Champ is massive.
For what it’s worth, Jay averaged a goal every 2.5 games last season if we go off minutes per goal. A goal contribution (goal or assist) every 2 games. That suddenly paints a much different picture to your ‘3 in 60’ shout.
Re: Summer 2022 Burnley Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion
I think I've heard a manager (not sure who, could be Jokanovic) saying that quality of pressing is the main difference between the two leagues. In Championship, you're also allowed to make more mistakes at the back/lose possession because quality of forwards is of course not as good as in PL.SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:23 pmNot sure where the idea of the Championship being slower than the PL comes from. The pressing in the Championship is more relentless as players with less technical ability make up for it with physical prowess. Brownhill is a good example of this. The teams that came up all pressed non-stop.
The PL is far faster when players are on the.break but the general tempo of games, especially with the top teams, is usually far slower