Blackburn bubble match

[Jamesy]

Get ready for a local Derby return of....
The coach convoy.
Pubs closed.
Horses, helicopters, barky dogs, spikey fencing.
Police telling you where you can and cannot walk
And a sunday noon kick off time.

This is exactly why I don’t bother watching us at Ewood. It’s a 12+ hour day once I have travelled up from the Midlands and been subjected to all of the above, prior to travelling back home. Did it once and vowed to never do it again.

[claret wizard]

I did it, till we won, then wouldn't put myself through it after that

Same here. Saw us get robbed by an offside equlaizer from the Fat Bloke, saw us win with a strong jaw and watched Scotty run the length of the pitch at home. That's where I'll be until I'm not treated like an offender.

[dougcollins]

I did it, till we won, then wouldn't put myself through it after that

Ditto.

[DCWat]

So they shouldn't have asked opinions of those affected by the bubble? You're involved enough with this message board to know there are plenty of threads and posts about the issue, with lots of supporters having opinions, why not tap into that, it's no different from neighborhood policing meetings where residents are asked their views on the way the area is being policed, and asked for any ideas how it could be improved.

There’s a huge difference between asking for opinions and as you said in the post that I quoted “come up with viable alternatives”.

The viable alternatives are the approaches that other forces use at games of a similar ilk, within their county. Ours is a feisty rivalry, perhaps one of the most feisty, but let’s not think that in terms of numbers, it’s anything like as difficult to police effectively as others.

Bring supporters in on contributing to discussions, decisions and the reasons for them, by all means, I’m all for that. But if as you say, the bubble exists because supporters groups could not come up with a viable alternative, well that’s not their job!

[Nori1958]

There’s a huge difference between asking for opinions and as you said in the post that I quoted “come up with viable alternatives”.

The viable alternatives are the approaches that other forces use at games of a similar ilk, within their county. Ours is a feisty rivalry, perhaps one of the most feisty, but let’s not think that in terms of numbers, it’s anything like as difficult to police effectively as others.

Bring supporters in on contributing to discussions, decisions and the reasons for them, by all means, I’m all for that. But if as you say, the bubble exists because supporters groups could not come up with a viable alternative, well that’s not their job!

You're putting words in my mouth there.... I never said it exists because supporters couldn't come up with a viable option

[DCWat]

You're putting words in my mouth there.... I never said it exists because supporters couldn't come up with a viable option

“Several supporters groups, or their representatives, were asked at one meeting to come up with viable alternatives, at the time they couldn't”

To be fair, that suggests that because there weren’t viable alternatives, the bubble remained.

[lakedistrictclaret]

I haven't been to an Ewood bubble match, and I don't intend to start now.
If, however, it isn't a bubble match, I'll be first in line for a ticket.

[Nori1958]

“Several supporters groups, or their representatives, were asked at one meeting to come up with viable alternatives, at the time they couldn't”

To be fair, that suggests that because there weren’t viable alternatives, the bubble remained.

It doest suggest it to me, but never mind.

[Claretitus]

Every chance it’ll be a bubble match again. Not much Sunday overtime for the cops for the last 6 seasons.

[Nori1958]

Every chance it’ll be a bubble match again. Not much Sunday overtime for the cops for the last 6 seasons.

They don't get overtime nowadays for footie, given enough notice.

[Garnerssoap]

I don’t actually agree with bubble matches but it would be carnage if a normal game. Just the way it is I think

[Bordeauxclaret]

I don’t actually agree with bubble matches but it would be carnage if a normal game. Just the way it is I think

Why was it not carnage the last time we played them without restrictions then?

[Commy]

They must be worried with all the derby's next season. Apparently the last time Burnley, Rovers, Preston and Blackpool were in the same division was 1961, unless the newspaper was wrong. They have had plenty of time to prepare so there should be no excuses.

[ClaretTony]

They must be worried with all the derby's next season. Apparently the last time Burnley, Rovers, Preston and Blackpool were in the same division was 1961, unless the newspaper was wrong. They have had plenty of time to prepare so there should be no excuses.

It’s correct, was 1960/61 with Preston relegated at the end of the season.

[TsarBomba]

There’s a huge difference between asking for opinions and as you said in the post that I quoted “come up with viable alternatives”.

The viable alternatives are the approaches that other forces use at games of a similar ilk, within their county. Ours is a feisty rivalry, perhaps one of the most feisty, but let’s not think that in terms of numbers, it’s anything like as difficult to police effectively as others.

Bring supporters in on contributing to discussions, decisions and the reasons for them, by all means, I’m all for that. But if as you say, the bubble exists because supporters groups could not come up with a viable alternative, well that’s not their job!

Couldn’t agree more.

If the only solution Lancs Police can come up with is to kettle 20-30k fans because of a tiny minority of knuckleheads, then it smacks of laziness, tbh. It’s not up to ordinary members of the public, who have no knowledge of public order policing, tactics and resources to come up with a solution on behalf of the police.

Going back to Aggi’s post from earlier, whether it be an individual officer at an incident, or an operational/strategic decision at organisational level, then the National Decision Making Model is applied.

The first two parts of the NDM are-

1. Information/Intelligence received
2. Threat assessment

What specific intelligence and information do Lancs Police have that suggests the need to Police the match the way they do? And if there is specific intel on individuals or meeting locations, then that is what gets targeted and policed heavily.

It is not enough to just say- ‘well it’s Burnley v Blackburn, they don’t like each other, we anticipate disorder, so we’ll police it in the way that we do’

It is too vague, disproportionate and arguably unlawful.

[Nori1958]

Couldn’t agree more.

If the only solution Lancs Police can come up with is to kettle 20-30k fans because of a tiny minority of knuckleheads, then it smacks of laziness, tbh. It’s not up to ordinary members of the public, who have no knowledge of public order policing, tactics and resources to come up with a solution on behalf of the police.

Going back to Aggi’s post from earlier, whether it be an individual officer at an incident, or an operational/strategic decision at organisational level, then the National Decision Making Model is applied.

The first two parts of the NDM are-

1. Information/Intelligence received
2. Threat assessment

What specific intelligence and information do Lancs Police have that suggests the need to Police the match the way they do? And if there is specific intel on individuals or meeting locations, then that is what gets targeted and policed heavily.

It is not enough to just say- ‘well it’s Burnley v Blackburn, they don’t like each other, we anticipate disorder, so we’ll police it in the way that we do’

It is too vague, disproportionate and arguably unlawful.

I often argued with those that made the decision, that the two incidents they quoted as reasons would not be stopped by the bubble
1) burnley fans wrecking the town centre... It was a home game

2) Burnley's finest hiring taxis to Blackburn, but couldn't decide between the station, or station pub.... They probably didn't go to the game, and even if they did it was so long after they could have been bused back to burnley before jumping iin a taxi

Finally I don't see a problem asking opinions of groups if in their view there are better options, you should be well aware the police consult with the public, and other bodies on all different aspects of policing.

[TsarBomba]

I often argued with those that made the decision, that the two incidents they quoted as reasons would not be stopped by the bubble
1) burnley fans wrecking the town centre... It was a home game

2) Burnley's finest hiring taxis to Blackburn, but couldn't decide between the station, or station pub.... They probably didn't go to the game, and even if they did it was so long after they could have been bused back to burnley before jumping iin a taxi

Finally I don't see a problem asking opinions of groups if in their view there are better options, you should be well aware the police consult with the public, and other bodies on all different aspects of policing.

I’m well aware that Police consult with MOP on a whole range of issues, and so they should.

There’s a difference between asking for opinions/consulting, and justifying a hugely disproportionate public order tactic on the back of a lack of alternative option put forward, by people that understandably don’t understand public order policing.

[Nori1958]

I’m well aware that Police consult with MOP on a whole range of issues, and so they should.

There’s a difference between asking for opinions/consulting, and justifying a hugely disproportionate public order tactic on the back of a lack of alternative option put forward, by people that understandably don’t understand public order policing.

A group were asked their opinions, asked if there was another option in their view, nobody, other than those who misunderstood my post on here, have ever tried to justify the tactic because fans couldn't come up with an option, that would just be silly,and something I did not say or suggest, I just said that at the time, they were unable to come up with an alternative, full stop.

[TsarBomba]

A group were asked their opinions, asked if there was another option in their view, nobody, other than those who misunderstood my post on here, have ever tried to justify the tactic because fans couldn't come up with an option, that would just be silly,and something I did not say or suggest, I just said that at the time, they were unable to come up with an alternative, full stop.

Your very first sentence says fans were asked for another option, and then your last sentence says they were unable to come up with an alternative.

Why are ordinary run of the mill fans being asked to provide tactical options to Lancs Police regarding the policing of a football match.

[Gunfury]

Burnley vs Blackburn should be played Boxing Day or Easter Monday or there abouts…both sets of supporters should boycott these stupid 11:30 kick offs on a Sunday in October…it will be on tv anyway

[Nori1958]

Your very first sentence says fans were asked for another option, and then your last sentence says they were unable to come up with an alternative.

Why are ordinary run of the mill fans being asked to provide tactical options to Lancs Police regarding the policing of a football match.

Correct.... And where did I then say it carried on because they couldn't come up with an alternative?

As a police officer, what do you find so alarming that football fans, who travel all over the country are asked if they think there is a better way to get fans to a game?

[TsarBomba]

Correct.... And where did I then say it carried on because they couldn't come up with an alternative?

As a police officer, what do you find so alarming that football fans, who travel all over the country are asked if they think there is a better way to get fans to a game?

There are 5 steps to the National Decision Making Model, as follows:

1. Intel/info received
2. Threat Assessment
3. Powers and Policy
4. Tactical options
5. Action

As you’ve said in your posts, ordinary football fans have been asked to provide an alternative, and you’ve clarified this further in your last post by saying fans were asked by the Police, and I quote ‘if there is a better way to get fans to the game’.

Lancs Police have decided to bus fans in as their tactical option, taking into account steps 1, 2, 3.

You cannot ask ordinary football fans to make a decision re tactical options, if they don’t know steps 1, 2 and 3. It’s entirely unreasonable, and I would absolutely question the purpose and reason behind the asking of an alternative to be put forward.

If the intel/info and risk assessment is such to justify this, then fine, let’s see it.

[Nori1958]

There are 5 steps to the National Decision Making Model, as follows:

1. Intel/info received
2. Threat Assessment
3. Powers and Policy
4. Tactical options
5. Action

As you’ve said in your posts, ordinary football fans have been asked to provide an alternative, and you’ve clarified this further in your last post by saying fans were asked by the Police, and I quote ‘if there is a better way to get fans to the game’.

Lancs Police have decided to bus fans in as their tactical option, taking into account steps 1, 2, 3.

You cannot ask ordinary football fans to make a decision re tactical options, if they don’t know steps 1, 2 and 3. It’s entirely unreasonable, and I would absolutely question the purpose and reason behind the asking of an alternative to be put forward.

If the intel/info and risk assessment is such to justify this, then fine, let’s see it.

Again you are saying fans were asked to make a decision re tactical options.... No they weren't!!!!!!!!
they were asked if they thought there were better options.... I really don't get what the big problem is, I would be more concerned had they not been consulted, just like commity leaders are consulted regarding the policing of the community.
The question police ask.... Are we doing it right... Could we do it better.. Is there anything we are not doing that we could do. Which is exactly the questions asked

[ClaretTony]

Your very first sentence says fans were asked for another option, and then your last sentence says they were unable to come up with an alternative.

Why are ordinary run of the mill fans being asked to provide tactical options to Lancs Police regarding the policing of a football match.

They weren’t. He tried initially to say it was Supporters Group reps and had to back track on that. He’s spouting nonsense sadly on a key matter.

[Nori1958]

They weren’t. He tried initially to say it was Supporters Group reps and had to back track on that. He’s spouting nonsense sadly on a key matter.

I haven't backtracked, I said what I was told, if that was not right I would be surprised..... Iam out with the senior (now ex) police officer who told me, in a few weeks time..( Who I saw going in the meeting) Iwill ask him who it was who was consulted..... I'll leave it till then to comment further, to avoid confusion.