Flying banner at Etihad stopping investment?

Raconteur · Post by **Raconteur** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:03 pm

Apologies if already posted but the mail are now reporting that the banner flown over the City game is the thing that is stopping investment into the club.
No direct quotes
From Matt Hughes.

: IMG_20220528_125523.jpg (750.2 KiB) Viewed 3906 times

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:06 pm

I read that earlier in the Daily Mail

Wouldn't be a shock if they're seeking US investment.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:12 pm

Funnily enough I was working on a piece about Alfred Charles that covered the Burnley reputation only yesterday:

BURNLEY: Pride, Prejudice and Football.

For most people the name Burnley, inspires a series of images. To older generations it is; smoking factory chimneys and rows of terraced houses, sitting lopsidedly on the hillsides of the West Pennines. But, since the turn of the 21st century even darker associations have plagued the town. In the summer of 2001 tensions between the self-segregated communities of Burnley erupted into ‘Race Riots’. The BNP had identified that Burnley was neglected and vulnerable, and targeted it relentlessly: every ward, bar one, was above average deprivation, more than one was in the top 10% of most deprived, countrywide. At 5am on June 23 two seemingly unrelated events; the stabbing of a white man on Francis Street and an assault on an Asian taxi-driver on Colne Road provided the spark. Burnley manager Stan Ternent would blame the riot for Peter Crouch backtracking on a verbal agreement to join the club that summer, long before he invented his ‘robot’ celebration.

For many ‘Burnley’ and Burnley Football Club are one and the same. What happens in one effects the other deeply. It would be 8 years before Burnley’s ‘racist’ label got official recognition; and before anyone noticed that nothing had changed. June 10, 2009 Burnley elected the first BNP councillor; not in a deprived area, but a suburb - Padiham and Burnley West. Few had previously considered self-segregation an issue, while Burnley prospered: it made sense that the communities of predominantly Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants chose to live together, they shared language and culture.

Burnley had survived the collapse of the industrial revolution and by the 1930’s the town was being associated with “Prestige” Furniture. Burnley at the time had little interest in fascism, or the haughty aristocrat Sir Oswald Moseley, or his nattily dressed ‘Blackshirts’. In fact, in 1933, second division Burnley Football Club signed its first black footballer, one of the very first black professionals, Alfred Pious Charles.

Both an outstanding cricketer and footballer, Alf seemingly preferred football, though he represented Trinidad at both. Known as “King Charles” by fans of the Trinidad club Everton; he helped them win the league and cup more than once. However, in September 1933 Alf was banned for three years for his part in an on pitch battle; while Everton withdrew from the league. Alf’s friend Learie Constantine invited him to travel as valet for the West Indies cricket tour of England; where he would introduce Alf to Constantine’s club team, Nelson. Burnley Football club, alerted, swooped and signed him as a footballer. Although Alf never made the first team and slipped into non-league football, four years later he joined Southampton, becoming the saints first black player. The following season he returned to Burnley; playing cricket for Nelson and football for non-league Stalybridge and by1963 Alfred was licensee of the popular Albert Hotel, Nelson; and died in his adopted town in 1977.

Burnley was running out of luck by the time of Alf’s death. The mega factories Prestige and G-Plan left or were leaving Burnley, the coal mines long gone, the big shoe factories soon followed suit and moved away. In 1987 Burnley Football Club beat Orient to stay in the football league. Burnley won, not just Burnley Football Club; a town on the brink of losing its last beacon of collective pride, had prevailed.

Instead, Burnley Football Club rose from the brink to spend the last six years in the Premier League. Although it still has it’s problems, in recent times Burnley has benefitted from the personal attention of self-proclaimed Claret, Prince Charles, adding his weight to support its redevelopment.

Yet Burnley is still tainted by the memory of BNP council election results, and of course, individual acts of stupidity/racism only reenforce outside perceptions. A “White lives Matter” banner flown over the Etihad stadium, Manchester as the “Black Lives matter” movement reached football stadia, added to already large and lasting impressions of the town as racist and backward.

But, BBC broadcaster Darren Bent telling listeners at the time that Burnley aren’t helped by having “no black players,” adds to the Racist branding of the club and town. To illustrate the point, few now remember Dwight McNiel and another black Burnley player ridiculing the comment as demonstrably untrue.

Sean Dyche led Burnley to six successive seasons in the Premier League; a tiny former textile town, dining among world football’s elite. Dyche’s gravelly voice and Sergeant-major demeanour, combined with a strong team ethic of all for one; and stodgy football was a practical solution to the massive quality gap. But, that same ‘us against the world’ attitude did little to change public perceptions of the Club and town.

The Premier League finally saw the back of the upstart Lancastrians a week ago, few outside Burnley and their clubs supporters shed tears. However, as I write, betting companies have suspended betting on the next Burnley Manager; with former Manchester City captain Vincent Kompany set to become the club’s first black manager. Expected to bring a more cultured eye-pleasing style to Burnley’s play; just maybe, along with the Football Club, opinions of the little Lancashire town, will be reviewed and revised. Then the world will see the real Burnley: a place Double Trinidadian International Alfred Pious “King” Charles, both belonged and was proud to call home.

References:

Heritage England Research Records: Clover Mill: https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gate ... ceID=19191 (Accessed 26 May 2021)
Burnley Civic Trust
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?st ... 4156360972 (Accessed 26 May 2021)
Lancashire Telegraph Online, Burnley Riots 2001
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... ne-events/
Lancashire Telegraph Online, Nostalga: A Prestige new Industry for Burnley in 1937
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... nley-1937/ (Accessed 26 May 2021)
Prabook Biographies: Alf Charles
https://prabook.com/web/alf.charles/2568189 (Accessed 26 May 2021)
Saintsplayers.co.uk: Alfred Pious Charles
https://www.saintsplayers.co.uk/player/alf-charles/

The Independent Newspaper: Dwight McNiel Criticises Darren Bent
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 80441.html (Accessed 26 May 2021)

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:12 pm

If this is true, it is a pity.
The banner did not reflect well on the Club or the Town but was the work of some misguided, mischievous idiots. Move on.

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:14 pm

Looking for anything to have a go at the club at the moment. The banner is history and nobody at the club supports anything to do with it.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:14 pm

Would not surprise me US sports franchises, which will have to act with the approval of their owners, are becoming increasingly socially progressive and taking an active role in issues.

Only this week the New York Yankees and Tampa Bay Rays decided that instead of game updates they would post gun violence facts on their social media.

Whatever your opinion is, if the question is, is US Sports social conscious, the answer is yes.
Did that banner damage our reputation in the US? The answer is probably the same.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:17 pm

This plus the early booing of the taking the knee, doesn’t really shed good light on the club, so that wouldn’t surprise me

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:20 pm

People who believe this crap will believe Crouch only turned Burnley down because of the riots.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:22 pm

So we need to appoint a black manager for everyone else to realise what most of us already know? Tbh, anyone needing that sort of appointment before getting into bed with us can just stay away for me, regardless of how much money they bring.

There are racists in Burnley, no doubt, just like there are a slack handful of racists in every town. But we are FAR from a racist town, and even further from being a racist club. Anyone who peddles anything other than that in the media are as misguided as the racists themselves.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:28 pm

Must be true if its in the Daily Mail.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:29 pm

What a crock of ****.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:29 pm

I'm from Rossendale and speaking as an outsider, I see the negativity about the town from a distance but it seems like it has been going on forever.
Key words in that piece from the Mail for me are, Hindering, Suggesting and Understood.
Are these the writers own opinions because he doesn't appear to substantiate the claims.
All a bit 'Sky Sports Understands.'
The Daily Mail are awfully tiresome imo.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:31 pm

The Daily Mail are really scraping the barrel now. As usual - no sources or direct quotes, just the Daily Mail "understands" - which I understand to mean that the Daily Mail have made up a story with no foundation. The chances of US investors being put off by something like this are remote, especially when we have been in the real news this week with regard to the potential appointment of a manager with non-white skin.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:31 pm

It doesn't seem implausible but it does seem like something of an excuse. Hard to see who the source would be other than someone trying to justify the fact that ALK have totally failed to find the further investment they want,

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:31 pm

Juan Tanamera wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 1:29 pm
I'm from Rossendale and speaking as an outsider, I see the negativity about the town from a distance but it seems like it has been going on forever.
Key words in that piece from the Mail for me are, Hindering, Suggesting and Understood.
Are these the writers own opinions because he doesn't appear to substantiate the claims.
All a bit 'Sky Sports Understands.'
The Daily Mail are awfully tiresome imo.

Similar to my first thoughts. Whatever truth there may (or may not) be in the piece, I doubt very much that a journalist would know.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:32 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 1:22 pm
There are racists in Burnley, no doubt, just like there are a slack handful of racists in every town. But we are FAR from a racist town, and even further from being a racist club. Anyone who peddles anything other than that in the media are as misguided as the racists themselves.

"The town of Burnley is racist" is not the argument being made or a belief held by any potential investor. So let's all stop getting a persecution complex and pretend it is.

The issue is, it's a proven fact is we have at least one racist committed enough to fly a plane banner over an internationally broadcast event.
Optics matter in business and do you want to put your money into a club knowing this?

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:33 pm

How will they cope when/if we announce Kompany

I’m sure they would find some way to spin it that we are only doing it to “shake off the tag”

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:37 pm

If one person on your street f**ks sheep on their front lawn.
Someone not wanting to buy a house on that street doesn't mean they think everyone on that street f**ks sheep.
Just one is enough.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:39 pm

I do find it ironic that the DM are taking the morale high ground regarding racism, considering the rubbish they spout on a continual basis.

And their agenda is becoming tiresome now.

More likely we're failing to attract investment due to dropping into the Championship, rather than a banner which is 2 years old, and has already been condemned by all connected to the club, not least Ben Mee.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:49 pm

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 1:14 pm
Looking for anything to have a go at the club at the moment. The banner is history and nobody at the club supports anything to do with it.

As it says in the article “For many ‘Burnley’ and Burnley Football Club are one and the same. What happens in one effects the other deeply”

We are inextricably linked.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:59 pm

Remember when London had the racist murder?

It stopped Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Fulham and West Ham from getting investment.

Oh I forgot it didn't. People still invested billions in them.

Why? Because investors can make money off them. Pace bought the club at top dollar with very little room to make money. Especially for outside investors.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 2:03 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 1:59 pm
Remember when London had the racist murder?

By a fan, at a match, on TV?

No.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Sat May 28, 2022 2:18 pm

More propaganda driven ********.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat May 28, 2022 2:22 pm

As someone who lives in America it was clearly reported for a couple of days over here then I've not heard a mention of it since. Ben Mee's response on the day got a lot of coverage too. It's another bullshit kick them whilst they are down made up story imho

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat May 28, 2022 3:12 pm

The most racist club in the country, Chelsea, have just been taken over by an American consortium.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 3:16 pm

The Daily Mail now sits on its high horse, but is it deflection, after all the Daily Mail, don’t like historians pointing to their own less than glorious past, when it comes to racism, the mouthpiece of Oswald Moseley’s Blackshirts….

https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... ald-mosley

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat May 28, 2022 3:17 pm

It's always easier to kick something when its down/on the floor, we are currently down and on the floor.

We are an easy target at the moment, it would have been the same for Leeds or Everton should they have fallen.

IF we start winning football matches it'll all go away

( same with our own fans negativity too )

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sat May 28, 2022 3:39 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 2:22 pm
As someone who lives in America it was clearly reported for a couple of days over here then I've not heard a mention of it since. Ben Mee's response on the day got a lot of coverage too. It's another bullshit kick them whilst they are down made up story imho

I don’t know VC……. Personally I view a dichotomy of action between major corporates and politicians. I work every day with those responsible for PR in a fortune 50 tech company (coming to LV next month). As was suggested earlier up the thread, while you might not have heard anything further PR teams do look for this kind of stuff today. We are now very quick to publicly distance ourselves from bad events/actors.

At the same time, I’m sure you are bemused too, that in the UK teams “take a knee.” That would NEVER happen in the states, the home of the Black Lives Matter movement, and that’s because it became politicized and GOP politicians would be very quick to condemn, hiding behind the precept of keep politics out of sport.

Bottom line is, it might not be news, but equally it is not forgotten

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:21 pm

I don’t think for a minute that if there were interested investors, American or otherwise, it would be brought up into conversation or for that matter even remembered.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:25 pm

The mail has already had one over the top, in my view , ludicrous article about the club and its future, this week. Looks like it has an agenda. Ignore it.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:28 pm

Just remember, a journalist went undercover in the long side in the first PL season hoping to uncover ‘racist behaviour’ and came away disappointed. If a newspaper wanted to push an agenda, it wouldn’t have to try hard and as said further up, we are the easy target. Just a shame there’s so many people who swallow it.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:30 pm

What a load of nonsense

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:31 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 4:28 pm
Just remember, a journalist went undercover in the long side in the first PL season hoping to uncover ‘racist behaviour’ and came away disappointed. If a newspaper wanted to push an agenda, it wouldn’t have to try hard and as said further up, we are the easy target. Just a shame there’s so many people who swallow it.

As you say, the truth falls a sorry second to agenda

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:40 pm

CombatClaret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 2:03 pm
By a fan, at a match, on TV?

No.

OK then. What about the Chelsea fans pushing the black man off the train in Paris? Was on the TV stations all around the world.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:46 pm

The Mail really has it in for us.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:48 pm

Billy Balfour wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 4:46 pm
The Mail really has it in for us.

And yet it was the Mail that Pace used at the start, Jack Gaughan I think, but don’t they spout some nonsense?

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:54 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 4:48 pm
And yet it was the Mail that Pace used at the start, Jack Gaughan I think, but don’t they spout some nonsense?

They certainly do. Looks like there might have been a falling out, what with all this negative stuff and raking over old coals.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 4:55 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 4:40 pm
OK then. What about the Chelsea fans pushing the black man off the train in Paris? Was on the TV stations all around the world.

Appalling yes, got a lot of negative press, yes. But was Chelsea looking to bring in investors at the time, I don't think so.

I don't see why people think it's unbelievable this could make a potential investor pause for thought. We have a track record of bad optics, from tiny minority yes. But that's all it takes to put a high net-worth individual in a very awkward situation.
Think like a business person and not a claret for one second.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 5:01 pm

CombatClaret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 4:55 pm
Appalling yes, got a lot of negative press, yes. But was Chelsea looking to bring in investors at the time, I don't think so.

I don't see why people think it's unbelievable this could make a potential investor pause for thought. We have a track record of bad optics, from tiny minority yes. But that's all it takes to put a high net-worth individual in a very awkward situation.
Think like a business person and not a claret for one second.

The problem is people remember the headline - no matter what the truth. How many skipped the research piece I posted above because it was a long read…

I would hope people who were interested in investing would investigate the facts, even if no one else can be bothered.

Spindles · Post by **Spindles** » Sat May 28, 2022 5:01 pm

You've also got to factor in the business earning potential of Chelsea compared to us.
We have very few positives to attract investors, so one major negative of racist appearances negates more of our potential than it does for Chelsea. Don't forget the mighty dollar is king, so investors will be weighing it all up

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Sat May 28, 2022 6:39 pm

Is anyone really surprised at this? The banner was appalling and did huge damage to our reputation. That the club and vast majority of fans were appalled makes no difference. The mud stuck and in the eyes of many it confirmed many assumptions already In existence (Brexit ball, Burnley never sign black players etc.). That some of that is patently false again makes no difference.

That this would be impactful on potential investors from abroad shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. That the only outside investor that has been publicly announced is someone heavily involved in civil rights issues in the US probably isn’t a coincidence.

The club now has to go that much further to counteract that image, unfair as it may be. We may want to move on but there’s plenty of evidence for in the comment sections that enough people don’t.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:02 pm

FAO elwa - surely 2009 was the last BNP councillor, not the first?

When mentioning BNP councillors, I find it relevant to put it in context. The Conservatives were anathema, the Liberals scarcely existed, and the Labour party had voted against the motion that gross indecency in a public park was inappropriate behaviour for a councillor. There was a lot more to it than just supporting the BNP. There was a high degree of protest vote.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:10 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:02 pm
FAO elwa - surely 2009 was the last BNP councillor, not the first?

When mentioning BNP councillors, I find it relevant to put it in context. The Conservatives were anathema, the Liberals scarcely existed, and the Labour party had voted against the motion that gross indecency in a public park was inappropriate behaviour for a councillor. There was a lot more to it than just supporting the BNP. There was a high degree of protest vote.

Thanks for that, surprisingly the BNP made little impact in the council election the year of the riots, it took a lot more effort by their organisers for their work in Burnley to show in the ballot box - thanks, it was a missing reference that will now be added.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ty-council

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:14 pm

I mean, plenty on here defended them, and its nice to know that the effect that had is still hurting us

Well done racists!

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:14 pm
I mean, plenty on here defended them, and its nice to know that the effect that had is still hurting us

Well done racists!

I'm quite astonished you would fall for this bull crap.

A uni student maybe, but a grown man? Who knows a bit about the world.

Not having it sorry.

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:25 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:10 pm
Thanks for that, surprisingly the BNP made little impact in the council election the year of the riots, it took a lot more effort by their organisers for their work in Burnley to show in the ballot box - thanks, it was a missing reference that will now be added.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ty-council

The BNP's first Borough Councillors (3) in Burnley were elected in May 2002.

The BNP's first County Councillor in Burnley was elected in May 2009.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:26 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:21 pm
I'm quite astonished you would fall for this bull crap.

A uni student maybe, but a grown man? Who knows a bit about the world.

Not having it sorry.

I don't think you get it at all

I'm disappointed that a grown man thought that what they did wouldn't have an effect

I mean, you do get how bad it looked I take it?

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:28 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:02 pm
FAO elwa - surely 2009 was the last BNP councillor, not the first?

The last BNP Borough Councillor lost their seat in the 2012 election.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:30 pm

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:25 pm
The BNP's first Borough Councillors (3) in Burnley were elected in May 2002.

The BNP's first County Councillor in Burnley was elected in May 2009.

Right, I checked the County Council records and it showed they made little impact in that years election. I hadn’t thought to check Borough level. That will have to be corrected, thanks.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑
Sat May 28, 2022 7:26 pm
I don't think you get it at all

I'm disappointed that a grown man thought that what they did wouldn't have an effect

I mean, you do get how bad it looked I take it?

I get that you can be appalled at the banner but it's a couple of years ago now.

I'm more talking about the crap pedalled of people won't invest in the club because of it.