What sort of investment?

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ClaretPete001
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue May 31, 2022 6:49 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:35 pm
I agree about the new loans. I was thinking more about Pace deferring the old loans, the Macquarie loan and also the amount owed for the balance of the original shares, so they become payable next year rather than this. They could hope to do this either by changing the terms of the existing loans or by borrowing new money to repay the old. Of course, Macquarie has 65 million good reasons for not wanting this to happen. If they allow the parachute money to be spent on football expenses, they are risking their investment.

As for investment at VSP level, do you think VSP would be content to throw more money at BFC? They have already lost £20m or so, the full amount of their initial investment, and putting significant new sums in would be a bit of a long shot in that if it fails, it's good money after bad, and if it succeeds there are still no guarantees of making a profit. The club may still be worth no more than they paid for it.
Why would anyone agree to any of that given that any investor will have a 3 year Window to get their money back after that there really will be nothing other than the fixed assets.

They will have to spend the parachute money on football expenses - even at 50 per cent the wage bill is likely to be between £40 and 50 million.

randomclaret2
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue May 31, 2022 6:53 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:44 pm
Why?
So he can be targeted for aggro?
So he can be pressured into giving away information?
People believe what they want anyway, so it makes no odds knowing if a poster is here on behalf of the club
That's your opinion, which is fine, and I've given mine.

Paul Waine
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Tue May 31, 2022 7:00 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:35 pm
I agree about the new loans. I was thinking more about Pace deferring the old loans, the Macquarie (do you mean MSD ???) loan and also the amount owed for the balance of the original shares, so they become payable next year rather than this. They could hope to do this either by changing the terms of the existing loans or by borrowing new money to repay the old. Of course, MSD has 65 million good reasons for not wanting this to happen. If they allow the parachute money to be spent on football expenses, they are risking their investment.

As for investment at VSP level, do you think VSP would be content to throw more money at BFC? They have already lost £20m or so, the full amount of their initial investment, and putting significant new sums in would be a bit of a long shot in that if it fails, it's good money after bad, and if it succeeds there are still no guarantees of making a profit. The club may still be worth no more than they paid for it.
I've posted previously stating that both ALK and MSD need to agree on any changes to the MSD £65 million loan. Based on what is reported in the accounts a "significant amount" to be agreed between ALK and MSD must be repaid very soon. The only way I can see this loan being extended is if ALK have gained new investment in VSP. The Macquarie loan of £12.5 million won't be extended, it is tied to Newcastle paying the balance of Chris Wood transfer fee before 1st Feb 2023. Of course, similar Macquarie loans could be taken out, if money is due on other transfer fees, particularly, any outgoing player transfers over the coming window. (Note: I assume you meant "MSD" when you posted "Macquarie." I've edited/underlined your quote above).

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Tue May 31, 2022 7:04 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:42 pm
It was an inter-company transfer after the year end. Why would it have been flagged up as fees?
The accounts state: "Following the year end £10,000,000 was advanced to a fellow group company."

It doesn't say "£10,000,000 was paid (as fees or otherwise) to a fellow group-company."

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Tue May 31, 2022 10:55 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 7:00 pm
I've posted previously stating that both ALK and MSD need to agree on any changes to the MSD £65 million loan. Based on what is reported in the accounts a "significant amount" to be agreed between ALK and MSD must be repaid very soon. The only way I can see this loan being extended is if ALK have gained new investment in VSP. The Macquarie loan of £12.5 million won't be extended, it is tied to Newcastle paying the balance of Chris Wood transfer fee before 1st Feb 2023. Of course, similar Macquarie loans could be taken out, if money is due on other transfer fees, particularly, any outgoing player transfers over the coming window. (Note: I assume you meant "MSD" when you posted "Macquarie." I've edited/underlined your quote above).
Correct. I did mean MSD. And yes, I agree it will be very difficult to extend or replace the loan, but I still wouldn't be surprised if that's what Pace is trying to do.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:11 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 7:04 pm
The accounts state: "Following the year end £10,000,000 was advanced to a fellow group company."

It doesn't say "£10,000,000 was paid (as fees or otherwise) to a fellow group-company."

Indeed they do but you said:

“the new owners haven't taken any salaries/fees/dividends out of the club.”

How do you know what that £10 million is for if it doesn’t state anything in the accounts?

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:24 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:11 am
Indeed they do but you said:

“the new owners haven't taken any salaries/fees/dividends out of the club.”

How do you know what that £10 million is for if it doesn’t state anything in the accounts?
Because it says £10m was advanced and not £10m was paid...

We know no dividends were paid, because dividends would have been paid to all shareholders, including those who retained their shares who post on here.

We know that it wasn't paid as salaries or fees in the period after the end of the financial year because any such payment would be reported in the next set of accounts and wouldn't need to be mentioned as "post balance sheet events."

We know that £10m was advanced because that is what it says in the accounts, an advance being a loan...

Of course, we don't know what the other group entity has used the £10 million for. We do know that Calder Vale spent money on buying shares from small shareholders (including the club credit).

We need to wait for the next set of accounts for the period ending 31st July 2022, which are due to be published before 30 April 2023...

Lots of other things may happen before then...

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by paulatky » Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:32 am

jedi_master wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:15 pm
Blakesboots - Could I ask to what end you are posting on a fans message board? Is Alan Pace aware you are on here, indeed, is this something he has specifically tasked you with? What is the aim of the game, as you don’t appear to be willing (or able) to placate any of the concerns raised at any juncture, so it seems more arbitrary and almost observatory in your being here.

I apologise for referring to you as a fantasist previously, if you are indeed involved with ALK.
Good luck in getting any meaningful response.
Moor likely get another load of waffle

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:05 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:24 am
Because it says £10m was advanced and not £10m was paid...

We know no dividends were paid, because dividends would have been paid to all shareholders, including those who retained their shares who post on here.

We know that it wasn't paid as salaries or fees in the period after the end of the financial year because any such payment would be reported in the next set of accounts and wouldn't need to be mentioned as "post balance sheet events."

We know that £10m was advanced because that is what it says in the accounts, an advance being a loan...

Of course, we don't know what the other group entity has used the £10 million for. We do know that Calder Vale spent money on buying shares from small shareholders (including the club credit).

We need to wait for the next set of accounts for the period ending 31st July 2022, which are due to be published before 30 April 2023...

Lots of other things may happen before then...
As far as I understand it, a post balance sheet event is something that is materially associated with the financial year but that comes to fruition after the year end.

It's not just something that happens after the year end between publishing the accounts and reporting.

I can't recall the dates but as far as I recall the small shareholders offer did not arise prior to July 2021 it was more like October 2021.

A £10 million advance from one company to another could be used for anything as you say above. It could be used to pay the interest on loans generated by ALK or indeed to pay fees charged by Directors to ALK that pertain to the trading year 20/21.

To be clear, I do not seek to explain the £10 million or to suggest what the Directors of VSL/ALK have done with it, rather, to ponder whether you can really say that the Directors have not taken any money out of the club with any certainty.

aggi
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:16 am

Management fees, director salaries, etc wouldn't be disclosed as post balance sheet events. ALK/Pace may have taken money out of the club in the period after the last accounts.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Blakesboots » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:18 am

jedi_master wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 6:15 pm
Blakesboots - Could I ask to what end you are posting on a fans message board? Is Alan Pace aware you are on here, indeed, is this something he has specifically tasked you with? What is the aim of the game, as you don’t appear to be willing (or able) to placate any of the concerns raised at any juncture, so it seems more arbitrary and almost observatory in your being here.

I apologise for referring to you as a fantasist previously, if you are indeed involved with ALK.

At the moment Jedi, I am in conflict with the board who have threatened me with ‘further action’ if I continue to ask direct questions.

I have not been provided with reason for the sanctions when I have asked for clarification. Just a response that indicates that no further conversation or discussion will be had on their behalf.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Blakesboots » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:18 am

paulatky wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:32 am
Good luck in getting any meaningful response.
Moor likely get another load of waffle
*more

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:23 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 4:37 pm
Alan Pace and ALK have always spoken of being Burnley's owners for the long term. Based on the first set of accounts (yes, these things can change) the new owners haven't taken any salaries/fees/dividends out of the club. Any profit on sale can only come, based on buying a Premier League club, by returning the club to the Premier League and being successful as a football club, such that the value of the club increases, probably alongside the increased value of all Premier League clubs.

UTC
Which is quite worrying, they'll be absolutely desperate to get to the PL and don't have any funds. They also don't lose anything from their own pocket if we fail, I smell more desperate gung ho loans or an attempt to brush the current loans under the carpet and kick the can dangerously down the road.
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dsr
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:23 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:16 am
Management fees, director salaries, etc wouldn't be disclosed as post balance sheet events. ALK/Pace may have taken money out of the club in the period after the last accounts.
ALK had received £102m from Burnley FC as a loan up to July 2021. If ALK had used that money to pay fees or directors' salaries to the directors of ALK, would we know?

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:27 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:05 am
As far as I understand it, a post balance sheet event is something that is materially associated with the financial year but that comes to fruition after the year end.

It's not just something that happens after the year end between publishing the accounts and reporting.
It's more the latter than the former. For example, if your factory burns down after the year end and production is suspended for months, that would be a post balance sheet event to be reported in the accounts, even though it hadn't happened at year end.

An event that comes to fruition after the year end that is associated with the financial year might be included in the accounts as an accrual rather than a post balance sheet event.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:29 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:18 am
At the moment Jedi, I am in conflict with the board who have threatened me with ‘further action’ if I continue to ask direct questions.

I have not been provided with reason for the sanctions when I have asked for clarification. Just a response that indicates that no further conversation or discussion will be had on their behalf.
Sorry, what’s this??

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:34 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:18 am
At the moment Jedi, I am in conflict with the board who have threatened me with ‘further action’ if I continue to ask direct questions.

I have not been provided with reason for the sanctions when I have asked for clarification. Just a response that indicates that no further conversation or discussion will be had on their behalf.
So you've been threatened by ALK, for acting like a part of ALK and attempting to post on their behalf?

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:38 am

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:34 am
So you've been threatened by ALK, for acting like a part of ALK and attempting to post on their behalf?
I assume he means the messageboard.
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:39 am

Blakesboots wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:28 am
I’d love to be able to take part in the discussion.
Feel free.

I started this topic to see what type of Investment they seeked, I know it's gone off topic a bit.

Can you answer that for me? It's a simple question if you know the answer and won't get anyone in any trouble.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:40 am

dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:23 am
ALK had received £102m from Burnley FC as a loan up to July 2021. If ALK had used that money to pay fees or directors' salaries to the directors of ALK, would we know?
We both know that the answer to that is no. But we also both know that is very a different legal obligation than management fees, dividends, salaries, etc coming straight out of the club.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by RVclaret » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:44 am

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:34 am
So you've been threatened by ALK, for acting like a part of ALK and attempting to post on their behalf?
No his posts kept getting deleted on another thread yesterday (mine probably will now for saying this)

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by paulatky » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:48 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:38 am
I assume he means the messageboard.
To me his response seems to mean he has been threatened by the ALK board not this message board. Wouldn’t he had said “by CT”if he was meaning this board.
Again an ambiguous reply which all seems part of his game.
Whoever he is he seems to have a lot of spare time on his hands

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:49 am

dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:27 am
It's more the latter than the former. For example, if your factory burns down after the year end and production is suspended for months, that would be a post balance sheet event to be reported in the accounts, even though it hadn't happened at year end.

An event that comes to fruition after the year end that is associated with the financial year might be included in the accounts as an accrual rather than a post balance sheet event.
You could be right... I could be thinking of a post balance sheet adjustments.

But as you say above where there are a lot of inter company transaction who knows what they have been used for...

My main point is that it is not a virtue not to take management fees because it suggests the club can't afford them and to be fair had they been taken prior to the year end the accounts would have looked significantly worse.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by claretandy » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:50 am

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:34 am
So you've been threatened by ALK, for acting like a part of ALK and attempting to post on their behalf?
Nope, he keeps having posts deleted on here.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:59 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:44 am
No his posts kept getting deleted on another thread yesterday (mine probably will now for saying this)
I think he should be very careful pretending to post on behalf of ALK if he's just a fan of the club. He needs to poo or get off the pot. Either stop pretending and playing games or reveal his true identity.
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by paulatky » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:06 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:44 am
No his posts kept getting deleted on another thread yesterday (mine probably will now for saying this)
What thread was that yesterday ?

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by pureclaret » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:08 am

I believe the only way you can be forced to sell share is if the company is being sold and initiate a drag along sale.
Other ways of trying to get somone to sell is not to pay minrotiy shareholders dividends and not give them direct access to accounts etc (these may be availlable from other soucres)

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by spt_claret » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:28 am

paulatky wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:06 am
What thread was that yesterday ?
I think the name the next manager thread had some. Possibly others, noticed it when I saw people quoting him but the quoted messages no longer existed.
Very strange and as much as I'm skeptical of his identity and intentions I don't think deleting his posts helps anything. Unless of course for legal reasons they had to be.
Of course it could all be an elaborate impersonation by a troll.
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:00 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:05 am
As far as I understand it, a post balance sheet event is something that is materially associated with the financial year but that comes to fruition after the year end.

It's not just something that happens after the year end between publishing the accounts and reporting.

I can't recall the dates but as far as I recall the small shareholders offer did not arise prior to July 2021 it was more like October 2021.

A £10 million advance from one company to another could be used for anything as you say above. It could be used to pay the interest on loans generated by ALK or indeed to pay fees charged by Directors to ALK that pertain to the trading year 20/21.

To be clear, I do not seek to explain the £10 million or to suggest what the Directors of VSL/ALK have done with it, rather, to ponder whether you can really say that the Directors have not taken any money out of the club with any certainty.

I recommend you take a look at note 25 Events after the reporting date in the accounts. First item: 5 players acquired on permanent contracts after 31st July 2021; second item: Chris Wood sold; third item: net expenditure on these (5 + 1) transfers, £1.3 million. I think we all know that none of these transfers were "materially associated with the financial year covered by accounts.

Agree, the offer to small shareholders was made October or November.

BFC is paying the interest on the loan from MSD. The interest paid in the financial year is included in the accounts.

If the money has been paid as an advance, then it is a loan to the other group entity. That's why it is mentioned in the accounts.

We all know with absolute certainty that ALK/VSP/VSL and the club's directors have not taken any money out of the club in the accounting period reported on. If any such payments had been paid they would have been reported in the accounts. There are several disclosures in the notes to the accounts that provide the information required.

Yes, things could have changed after 31st July 2021, but that has nothing to do with the £10 million that is reported as being advanced.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:23 am
Which is quite worrying, they'll be absolutely desperate to get to the PL and don't have any funds. They also don't lose anything from their own pocket if we fail, I smell more desperate gung ho loans or an attempt to brush the current loans under the carpet and kick the can dangerously down the road.
No one will be making new loans to BFC, unless MSD approve those new loans or the MSD loans have been repaid first. Macquarie type loans secured on transfer money due to the club may be the exception.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:08 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:23 am
ALK had received £102m from Burnley FC as a loan up to July 2021. If ALK had used that money to pay fees or directors' salaries to the directors of ALK, would we know?
I believe it would be disclosed in BFC's accounts. Directors remuneration. Related party transactions.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:00 pm
We all know with absolute certainty that ALK/VSP/VSL and the club's directors have not taken any money out of the club in the accounting period reported on. If any such payments had been paid they would have been reported in the accounts. There are several disclosures in the notes to the accounts that provide the information required.
Just to clarify, what you presumably mean is that ALK etc. have not taken any fees or director's salaries from Burnley FC. They (or someone else in the structure) have certainly taken money out of the club, they have taken £102m during the year and £10m that we know about after the year end. We don't know what they have done with that money except that a shedload of it has gone to Garlick and friends.

Calder Vale's accounts, due by 1st July, might be more informative - or they might not.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:36 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:31 pm

Calder Vale's accounts, due by 1st July, might be more informative - or they might not.
My guess is they will not - they will have the least information possible - probably those for a small company

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:36 pm
My guess is they will not - they will have the least information possible - probably those for a small company
As head of a large group, they won't be able to, will they? Unless their holding company in turn is going to publish group accounts in the UK, which I suspect they won't.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:08 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:36 pm
My guess is they will not - they will have the least information possible - probably those for a small company
dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:51 pm

As head of a large group, they won't be able to, will they? Unless their holding company in turn is going to publish group accounts in the UK, which I suspect they won't.
I can't see how Calder Vale Holdings Ltd can qualify as a small company. It is the parent company of BFCHL - note 27 of accounts - and the latter "busts" all 3 of the small company thresholds, turnover, balance sheet and number of employees. Interesting to see how this is handled.

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:14 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:08 pm
I can't see how Calder Vale Holdings Ltd can qualify as a small company. It is the parent company of BFCHL - note 27 of accounts - and the latter "busts" all 3 of the small company thresholds, turnover, balance sheet and number of employees. Interesting to see how this is handled.
I think of Calder Vale Holdings as little more than a holding shell in the overall structure - if allowed I would expect the same for Kettering Capital too

I have no idea about the rules in Jersey but we don't get to see those filings so it makes little difference though that is declared as being the overall ultimate control for the group

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:15 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:31 pm
Just to clarify, what you presumably mean is that ALK etc. have not taken any fees or director's salaries from Burnley FC. They (or someone else in the structure) have certainly taken money out of the club, they have taken £102m during the year and £10m that we know about after the year end. We don't know what they have done with that money except that a shedload of it has gone to Garlick and friends.

Calder Vale's accounts, due by 1st July, might be more informative - or they might not.
Hi dsr, again, we can learn something about the £102 million by reading note 2 of BFCHL's accounts.

Quote: "The group has an outstanding debtor balance of £102,000,000 due from the undertaking of Calder Vale
Holdings Limited, which arose in relation to the acquisition of Burnley FC Holdings Limited during the year.
Of this balance £65,000,000 is a payable to Burnley FC Holdings Limited, with £37,000,000 payable to The
Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited."


So, we do know what Calder Vale/ALK have done with the £102 million - it's part of the payment to the former directors to acquire their shares. Mike Garlick and John B were the largest two shareholders. The other directors all did equally well out of the sale of their shares, relative to the number of shares they held and sold to ALK.

Paul Waine
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:17 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:14 pm
I think of Calder Vale Holdings as little more than a holding shell in the overall structure - if allowed I would expect the same for Kettering Capital too

I have no idea about the rules in Jersey but we don't get to see those filings so it makes little difference though that is declared as being the overall ultimate control for the group
I'd expect the parent company that is subject to UK Companies House rules to have to file according to those rules. Agree, we won't see a lot of information from entities that are not subject to UK filing rules.

dsr
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:29 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:15 pm
Hi dsr, again, we can learn something about the £102 million by reading note 2 of BFCHL's accounts.

Quote: "The group has an outstanding debtor balance of £102,000,000 due from the undertaking of Calder Vale
Holdings Limited, which arose in relation to the acquisition of Burnley FC Holdings Limited during the year.
Of this balance £65,000,000 is a payable to Burnley FC Holdings Limited, with £37,000,000 payable to The
Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited."


So, we do know what Calder Vale/ALK have done with the £102 million - it's part of the payment to the former directors to acquire their shares. Mike Garlick and John B were the largest two shareholders. The other directors all did equally well out of the sale of their shares, relative to the number of shares they held and sold to ALK.
It's certainly possible that the £102m was spent on the acquisition, it may even be probable. But it isn't certain. It says "in relation to the acquisition", which could mean that it includes fees and admin expenses. The string of companies above BFC aren't running on fresh air, and their running costs are coming from somewhere.

It will be interesting to see, in the 2022 accounts, if this debt is written down to £nil value. Unless we get back into the PL, it looks pretty likely that the £102m (now £112m) isn't coming back.

aggi
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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:19 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:14 pm
I think of Calder Vale Holdings as little more than a holding shell in the overall structure - if allowed I would expect the same for Kettering Capital too

I have no idea about the rules in Jersey but we don't get to see those filings so it makes little difference though that is declared as being the overall ultimate control for the group
They still class as parent company to the group and the group is large so no exemptions.

I wouldn't expect to see a huge amount going through their books though as they don't really do much in the scheme of things (I assume).

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Re: What sort of investment?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:26 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:00 pm
I recommend you take a look at note 25 Events after the reporting date in the accounts. First item: 5 players acquired on permanent contracts after 31st July 2021; second item: Chris Wood sold; third item: net expenditure on these (5 + 1) transfers, £1.3 million. I think we all know that none of these transfers were "materially associated with the financial year covered by accounts.

Agree, the offer to small shareholders was made October or November.

BFC is paying the interest on the loan from MSD. The interest paid in the financial year is included in the accounts.

If the money has been paid as an advance, then it is a loan to the other group entity. That's why it is mentioned in the accounts.

We all know with absolute certainty that ALK/VSP/VSL and the club's directors have not taken any money out of the club in the accounting period reported on. If any such payments had been paid they would have been reported in the accounts. There are several disclosures in the notes to the accounts that provide the information required.

Yes, things could have changed after 31st July 2021, but that has nothing to do with the £10 million that is reported as being advanced.
But the point I keep making over and over is that once the money is transferred to other companies in the group - it would not be reported in the clubs accounts.

Alan Pace and the other directors could have charged VSL/ALK consultant fees from another associated company linked to the purchase of the club. And paid those fees out of the £102 million or £10million.

Again I accept you have a strong point but you cannot say anything with "certainty" once you have large inter-company loans.

And again not taking money from the club is not a virtue. The reality is - it would have made a material difference to the reported loss.

It's not seen as good practice in business because the club should be able to pay Directors wages.

If it can't then it's not a viable business in the longer term. Let's be honest, it's a cute political move from a PR perspective but not one that most investors would appreciate..

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