• Yorkshire C.C

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:30 pm**

It appears Andrew Gale and several other members of the coaching staff have won their claims for unfair dismissal.

"Unless the two sides come to an agreement, there will be another hearing to determine the remedy."

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:17 pm**

In their haste Yorks CC did not go through any disciplinary procedure as required by all employers today. Gale and company thus got no fair hearing or any hearing at all. Whatever the merits of the case, they require correct procedure and yet another lapse by Yorks CC will cost it dearly.

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:08 pm**

So desperate were they to be seen to be doing something, they made a complete ******** of it.

First, they should’ve checked whether there was anything wrong in the first place. Then they should have planned what they needed to do about it by following properly documented procedures….

A complete cluster….

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:38 pm**

bobinho wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:08 pm
So desperate were they to be seen to be doing something, they made a complete ******** of it.

First, they should’ve checked whether there was anything wrong in the first place. Then they should have planned what they needed to do about it by following properly documented procedures….

A complete cluster….

Yep, their virtue signaling has/will cost them a very hefty sum.

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:48 pm**

Yorkshire have, from start to finish made a complete mess of this. Every step of the way they got it wrong.

However, whilst I don’t think this influenced their decision here, I suspect they were in a bit of a no win situation, had they followed normal disciplinary process and found no wrong doing or insufficient evidence it’s highly likely in todays social media world, they’d have been accused of a cover up. There was little time for following process as the pitch forks were out and people were demanding ‘action’!

At the time these calls were made there was a media frenzy and Rafiq’s word was to be seen as gospel.

Must admit, whilst I’m not a fan of his at all, I admire Michael Vaughan’s stance on this. He refused to apologise on the basis she denied any wrong doing and basically said “prove it”. As there was no proof he’s eventually been able to get back to where he was. Fair play to him for standing up to the lynch mob.

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:28 pm**

Always going to happen.

It just shows that peoples outcries/opinions aren't anywhere near the laws.

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:41 pm**

The tribunal hasn't made judgement on the reasons for the sacking, only that a proper process wasn't followed.

It may yet turn out that the sacking was justified, just the way they did it was wrong.

Either way, it's funny to see Yorkshire in turmoil.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:59 am**

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:41 pm
The tribunal hasn't made judgement on the reasons for the sacking, only that a proper process wasn't followed.

It may yet turn out that the sacking was justified, just the way they did it was wrong.

Either way, it's funny to see Yorkshire in turmoil.

The reasons behind them being sacked do not appear to be being re-examined.

The judgment found that they had been unfairly dismissed. All that remains is for Yorkshire to give a full apology and reach a settlement with the coaches.As it would seem impossible for them to be re-instated then a cash payment will be involved.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:54 pm**

Good to see George Dobell name the 7 charged today.

Some very unsurprising names in the list

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:01 pm**

While the ECB has elected not to name those charged, The Cricketer understands the seven includes four former England players – Michael Vaughan, Matthew Hoggard, Tim Bresnan and Gary Ballance – as well as former Yorkshire captain, Andrew Gale. The others are Richard Pyrah and former Scotland international John Blain.

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/cou ... ation.html

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:28 pm**

Thanks for naming them on here, some big fish among them.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:11 pm**

T20 captain David Willey leaving at the end of the season due to recent events at the club.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:48 pm**

This stinks at them having to charge them to counter their legitimate unfair dismissal claims . What a rancid mess . Though who cares for truth when the high altar of “ racism “ is at stake . Let’s hope Rafiq got over his erm “ forced “ alcohol consumption, returning to the club AFTER the dates of his claims ( until dropped ) and some causal anti semitism thrown in .

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:56 pm**

Here we go.

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:02 am**

Honestly this is ridiculous. Obviously Yorkshire CCC needed to take action but now it is just a case of saving/making as much money out of the whole thing as possible by all parties.
Also, Yorkshire being punished for wrongdoing is all well and good but I’d be surprised if they were actually any worse than any other County CC in England.
Cricket has a rubbish culture within dressing rooms - so many players are complete crack heads. So unprofessional compared to football…

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:03 pm**

A couple more developments on this sorry saga come to light today.

Daily Mail is reporting that YCCC and Lord Patel face fines for financial rules breach after failing to disclose business reltionships and potential conflicts of interest. If true that's quite a blow for Lord Patel who promissed "a new era of transparency" at the club.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... reach.html

Telegraph is reporting that YCCC's former physio, Wayne Morton, is suing the county (for £560k) over accusations they made against him in terminating his contract. (Some fairly juicy allegations were made against him).
"The accusations, branded “false”, “untrue”, “baseless” and “wrong” in documents filed by Morton’s lawyers, expose the extraordinary lengths to which the Patel-chaired Yorkshire were apparently prepared to go to see through a mass cull that could end up costing them almost £2m in damages."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/202 ... rostitute/

If the threat of relegation wasn't bad enough. (Have to say, I relish the Lancs v Yorks rivalry and wouldn't wish the club to go bust - but they haven't half made a mess of this whole saga).

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:42 pm**

Like everything else these days it has become all about money. Amazing the stuff that creeps out of the woodwork decades later when there's a chance of a quick buck.

I doubt Yorkshire will be relegated as Warwickshire need to win and there match looks a nailed on draw.

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:57 pm**

A dreadful season ends for Yorks, deserve to be relegated whatever the Warwick result tomorrow. Batting is minor county standard.

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:19 am**

Yorkshire, Yorkshire!

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:54 pm**

Relegated

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:48 pm**

Oh dear what a shame never mind

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:03 pm**

We will still win the championship half a dozen times before Lancashire win it next ...

Sad day for cricket...

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:10 pm**

wbfc wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:03 pm
We will still win the championship half a dozen times before Lancashire win it next ...

Sad day for cricket...
[/quote
Good job you’re a Burnley fan

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:02 pm**

wbfc wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:03 pm
We will still win the championship half a dozen times before Lancashire win it next ...

Sad day for cricket...

Not seeing too much sadness around, I’ve got to be honest.

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:39 pm**

Not sure why YCCC always seems to be a thread on BFC message boards but here we are. No silverware again for the red rose, shocker.

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pm**

defournonblondes wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:39 pm
Not sure why YCCC always seems to be a thread on BFC message boards but here we are. No silverware again for the red rose, shocker.

Like I have asked Dandeclaret ... did the Yorkshire Tea Van run over his pet when he was little to cause such hatred ...

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:58 pm**

No hatred, it’s just racism. I mean banter.

Banter….. and pure joy, at a rival stumbling so badly. If you can’t laugh at Yorkshire, who can you laugh at eh?

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:19 pm**

Michael Vaughan has been cleared of using racist language towards Azeem Rafiq. Lets hope this brings the matter to a close and Vaughan is reinstated by the BBC.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:24 pm**

Doubtful when five others are awaiting punishment.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:37 pm**

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:24 pm
Doubtful when five others are awaiting punishment.

I did not realise there were 5 others still involved. Will the new findings by the Cricket Discipline Commission form some sort of precedent for future hearings? By finding Vaughan not guilty it implies they believe his version and not that of Rafiq.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:47 pm**

Other 5 did not attend the hearing to defend themselves, Hoggard, Bresnan, Gale, Pyrah and Blain all found guilty of using the p word.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:19 pm**

Bigbopper wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:19 pm
Michael Vaughan has been cleared of using racist language towards Azeem Rafiq. Lets hope this brings the matter to a close and Vaughan is reinstated by the BBC.

Blain will be appealing the decision against him (he didn't attend the recent hearing) and some of the others may also appeal the "proved" verdicts they got- though they also got some not-proved verdicts

Doesn't the decision put some pressure on Rafiq now anyway? He's made allegations which have not been believed (on the balance of probabilities) and the investigation also said there were “significant inconsistencies in the evidence” of both Rafiq and key witness Adil Rashid. A witness also stated that Rafiq had told him he would "play the race card".

Pressure also on ECB whose original investigation was poor, being described Vaughan’s barrister, Christopher Stoner KC (rightly in my view) as “woefully inadequate” and an “affront to fairness”. He said due process had been “sent on holiday” and the ECB had conducted a “wholly inadequate investigation."

Pressure also on the YCCC/Patel because of the (very costly) sackings.

Maybe Vaughan will be inclined to leave it at that and continue his previous amount of punditry in peace rather than look for a comeback to ECB/Rafiq but some of the others probably wont.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:31 pm**

Agreed LeadBelly, Patel is standing down as YCCC chairman, a right royal mess with no winners.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:33 pm**

LeadBelly wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:19 pm
Blain will be appealing the decision against him (he didn't attend the recent hearing) and some of the others may also appeal the "proved" verdicts they got- though they also got some not-proved verdicts

Doesn't the decision put some pressure on Rafiq now anyway? He's made allegations which have not been believed (on the balance of probabilities) and the investigation also said there were “significant inconsistencies in the evidence” of both Rafiq and key witness Adil Rashid. A witness also stated that Rafiq had told him he would "play the race card".

Pressure also on ECB whose original investigation was poor, being described Vaughan’s barrister, Christopher Stoner KC (rightly in my view) as “woefully inadequate” and an “affront to fairness”. He said due process had been “sent on holiday” and the ECB had conducted a “wholly inadequate investigation."

Pressure also on the YCCC/Patel because of the (very costly) sackings.

Maybe Vaughan will be inclined to leave it at that and continue his previous amount of punditry in peace rather than look for a comeback to ECB/Rafiq but some of the others probably wont.

Seems a large amount of evidence, stored electronically, has vanished (been deleted) since Patel took over. It is being suggested that this missing evidence would not have been fully supportive of the claims Rafiq has made. Appears this may rumble on for a while.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:50 pm**

Bigbopper wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:37 pm
I did not realise there were 5 others still involved. Will the new findings by the Cricket Discipline Commission form some sort of precedent for future hearings? By finding Vaughan not guilty it implies they believe his version and not that of Rafiq.

Vaughan wasn't found "not guilty".

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:55 pm**

I don't think either side of this sorry affair comes out of this very well....

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:24 pm**

Bigbopper wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:33 pm
Seems a large amount of evidence, stored electronically, has vanished (been deleted) since Patel took over. It is being suggested that this missing evidence would not have been fully supportive of the claims Rafiq has made. Appears this may rumble on for a while.

The strongest suggestion I've seen re the deleted documents is that it would've worked against some/many of Rafiq's claims.
YCCC say the documents were "lost" before Patel took over but came to light after he took over.

From a Telegraph article (havent seen any challenge to this)
"The club's decision to enter a guilty plea to a surprise charge of destroying documents is mystifying. The ECB and Yorkshire have refused to disclose exactly what is missing although it is known they had gathered evidence to use in an employment tribunal brought against the county by Rafiq.

The only explanation over the charge comes in a brief statement from Yorkshire detailing that "certain documents and emails" created before Lord Patel's appointment as chairman "were unable to be located" and "had been irretrievably deleted from both servers and laptops and otherwise destroyed”.

A host of insiders close to previous regimes at Yorkshire have raised questions over this version of events, insisting evidence was backed up by an IT firm and will have been available at Headingley in recent weeks. In response to those allegations, the club released another statement saying the deletion had come to light after November 5 2021 (the day Patel took charge) but did not say when it happened.

The loss of evidence is vital because, due to a lack of corroborating evidence backing up Rafiq in almost all the charges against individuals, the ECB relied on the club accepting a charge of racist language being widespread at Yorkshire.

But it was the new board at Yorkshire that accepted the charge, not those in place before Lord Patel’s appointment. There is inevitable suspicion among those accused that the documents in question may have led to major elements of the case collapsing

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:43 am**

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:50 pm
Vaughan wasn't found "not guilty".

He was found as not guilty as he could have been in the circumstances. An actual finding of not guilty is near impossible based on what is effectively one persons word against another. The only way of finding him not guilty would be to say Rafiq was lying which was never going to happen amongst various proven charges against others.

I’ve said a few times on this forum, I’ve never been a fan of Vaughan in the media but fair play to him for standing up and fighting the charges against him. It would have been much easier for him to accept it and hope it blows over. By fighting he risked having it proven he is a racist and he would most certainly have been finished in a professional sense.

I hope he can now resume his career without people referring to this whole sorry episode ever again.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:50 am**

This whole affair has done cricket as a whole great harm.

And it's not just YCC where racism is an issue Cricket Scotland has faced an equally difficult challenges which has now led to several senior figures resigning.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:20 am**

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:50 pm
Vaughan wasn't found "not guilty".

Not guilty ,cleared of all charges, no charges to answer. Its a play on words.

The commission stated there were "serious inconsistencies" in some of the statements made. Using the same play on words tactic does that mean some people were being economical with the truth. Who knows the answer?

Vaughan has come out of this with his reputation restored to a large degree other people may be not so.

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