Bobby Thomas

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Petersa
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Bobby Thomas

Post by Petersa » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:36 pm

Noticed on the threads showing Maxwell Cornet with a new blonde rinse that Bobby was wearing the new training kit with the number 16. As that is a new number for him this season using my amateur Sherlock Holmes instinct it would suggest that there is a potential role for him this season don't you think

Rowls
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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Rowls » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:39 pm

Read somewhere that the numbers did not represent any decisions and were allocated purely as training tops but I'd suspect they're not entirely random.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by wilks_bfc » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:47 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:39 pm
Read somewhere that the numbers did not represent any decisions and were allocated purely as training tops but I'd suspect they're not entirely random.
I’ve a feeling they’ve only said that as Twine was wearing 17 and maybe he’ll be 9 after Wout leaving is confirmed

Commy
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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Commy » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:51 pm

I saw a picture on twitter with Rob Harker no. 9. Can't find it now.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:55 pm

Commy wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:51 pm
I saw a picture on twitter with Rob Harker no. 9. Can't find it now.
The number on the Harker pic was part covered although the club had previously tweeted a pic of him which they very quickly deleted. The number on the pic still there ends in a 6.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Commy » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:01 pm

Teasing us😮

Pickles
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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Pickles » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:03 pm

Doesn't really matter but Barnes should be number nine.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:10 pm

Collins, McNally, Long, Harwood-Bellis, Egan-Riley, Bedeau and Thomas all capable of playing at Centre Half

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by dibraidio » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:44 am

Seems to be doing well at Bristol Rovers.

3 goals in his 12 games is pretty impressive for a centre half. The linked article rates him as their best signing of the summer.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/america ... r-AA14CWlf

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by tiger76 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:49 am

No surprise Bobby Thomas is doing well at Bristol Rovers, even in his brief 1st appearances at Burnley he looked a classy player.

He is exactly the template for emerging youngsters who can't break into our senior side, go out on loan and get regular game time while learning his trade.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Mattster » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:23 am

He's looked a better player than Jimmy Dunne for us and out on loan so he's certainly got a future at Championship level at least. Not confident he'll have a spot with us if we're in the Premier League under Kompany though, not sure his ability on the ball is quite up there with what VK wants - hope he proves me wrong.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by RVclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:36 am

Great to see him doing well.

Not sure Richardson has had as much game time / done as well, which is a shame.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by NewClaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:13 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:36 am
Great to see him doing well.

Not sure Richardson has had as much game time / done as well, which is a shame.
Also pleased for him and not surprised as he’s always looked the part when I’ve seen him in the first team. Also scores, as pointed out, and looks a threat from set pieces - which has to be a bonus.

If we don’t go up I would imagine he might come back and be a key player for us.

On Richardson, that’s a shame.

One thing it raises to me is what is the aspiration of our U21’s set up? Do we care about promotion to Div 1? Or is that all very secondary to player development and the league we’re not bothered? I’d have thought it would be important to the players we can attract so it would be important.

I ask because we’re 9 pts behind with 4 games to go, sat in 3rd. I’d have thought if we were really keen on promotion we might recall players not developing as we might’ve hoped for a final push or play offs? Or use the first team fringe players in the U21s more than we seem to.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by FeedTheArf » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:36 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:13 pm

One thing it raises to me is what is the aspiration of our U21’s set up? Do we care about promotion to Div 1? Or is that all very secondary to player development and the league we’re not bothered? I’d have thought it would be important to the players we can attract so it would be important.

I ask because we’re 9 pts behind with 4 games to go, sat in 3rd. I’d have thought if we were really keen on promotion we might recall players not developing as we might’ve hoped for a final push or play offs? Or use the first team fringe players in the U21s more than we seem to.
The cynic in me thinks that as long as we have Kompany there isn't a real need for the academy to produce. He's shown in one window that he can bring multiple, young, exciting players for modest amounts - Benson, Zaroury and Vitinho immediately jumping out as players who we could (and probably will) flip in years to come. It depends whether the club are happy to operate with a short term view or whether they're willing to continue to invest money in the academy which may not produce the level of player we're looking for for another 5 or 10 years - particularly if we remain in the Championship.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:48 pm

FeedTheArf wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:36 pm
The cynic in me thinks that as long as we have Kompany there isn't a real need for the academy to produce. He's shown in one window that he can bring multiple, young, exciting players for modest amounts - Benson, Zaroury and Vitinho immediately jumping out as players who we could (and probably will) flip in years to come. It depends whether the club are happy to operate with a short term view or whether they're willing to continue to invest money in the academy which may not produce the level of player we're looking for for another 5 or 10 years - particularly if we remain in the Championship.
You may be correct.
I think it’s really difficult for us and most clubs to bring players through their academy.
How many clubs have thrown tens of millions at their youth systems and still not had payback.
Even clubs like Chelsea and City who cream off many of the best young players from around the world we still don’t know whether they actually get pay back for their investment because for clubs like this money is no object and it does not matter if they lose tens of millions with their youth policy.

Even looking at Blackburn which is often mentioned when comparing our Academy has Blackburn’s been that successful ? They seem to have a couple of good young players broken through this season but they have been putting a lot of money in for a lot of years and like you mention we got fantastic young players in Zaroury, Benson, Beyer etc for not much money using a different approach.

It’s a tough decision for all clubs because gut feel for most fans is that we should have a great youth system and Academy and it’s fantastic when you get a player reaching the first team through this route. But if it’s not working then trying something else like we may be now that gets you to the same end will make fans just as happy !

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Suratclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:52 pm

The apparent need of some chairmen for instant success makes it even more difficult for players to progress into a first team squad from an academy. Any young player needs to be incredibly talented to make the grade particularly with one of the top teams. However, this doesn’t necessarily negate the importance of an academy as it can be something of a revenue stream. Burnley have signed young players from other teams’ academies and will sell players from its own academy. Whether this justifies the cost of running an academy is open for debate.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by claretspice » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:25 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:36 am
Great to see him doing well.

Not sure Richardson has had as much game time / done as well, which is a shame.
I think that's a little harsh on Richardson. From what I understand he started very promisingly at Grimsby, picked up a niggle and has then been a bit in and out of a team that has been chopping and changing a bit in search of results. Overall the impression appears to be that he's shown plenty of promise as a link up player (he's typically played as a 10 by the looks of it) but hasn't quite had the goalscoring run he's threatened.

In any event, Richardson is 19 and missed a year of his physical development (and quite probably his first loan) as a result of injury - the first couple of months of this learn were always going to be a sharp learning curve for him in playing senior league football and dealing with the physicality of it. He's basically at the same stage in his development Rodriguez was at when he went to Sterling and didn't especially pull up trees.

So I wouldn't read too much into his record to date at Grimsby and he's certainly not comparable to Bobby Thomas, who is 2 years older. He and Mellon both remain really good prospects (and it'd be no surprise if Mellon went out on loan in January if he too is over his injury problems).
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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Rouwens_Weapon » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:30 pm

Don't know what the running costs are of the academy but if we could bring through one 'McNeil' every 4-5 years it should be self-sufficient.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by RVclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:31 pm

claretspice wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:25 pm
I think that's a little harsh on Richardson. From what I understand he started very promisingly at Grimsby, picked up a niggle and has then been a bit in and out of a team that has been chopping and changing a bit in search of results. Overall the impression appears to be that he's shown plenty of promise as a link up player (he's typically played as a 10 by the looks of it) but hasn't quite had the goalscoring run he's threatened

In any event, Richardson is 19 and missed a year of his physical development (and quite probably his first loan) as a result of injury - the first couple of months of this learn were always going to be a sharp learning curve for him in playing senior league football and dealing with the physicality of it. He's basically at the same stage in his development Rodriguez was at when he went to Sterling and didn't especially pull up trees.

So I wouldn't read too much into his record to date at Grimsby and he's certainly not comparable to Bobby Thomas, who is 2 years older. He and Mellon both remain really good prospects (and it'd be no surprise if Mellon went out on loan in January if he too is over his injury problems).
Not sure which part of my comment is harsh. He hasn’t had as much game time and, as Thomas is seemingly impressing a lot, hasn’t done as well as him. Aside from that agree with everything you said!

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by claretspice » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:31 pm
Not sure which part of my comment is harsh. He hasn’t had as much game time and, as Thomas is seemingly impressing a lot, hasn’t done as well as him. Aside from that agree with everything you said!
I don't think the comparison is a fair one in the first place. It's not that Richardson is not doing well on his own terms, and those terms are not the same as those for Thomas.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:40 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:48 pm
You may be correct.
I think it’s really difficult for us and most clubs to bring players through their academy.
How many clubs have thrown tens of millions at their youth systems and still not had payback.
Even clubs like Chelsea and City who cream off many of the best young players from around the world we still don’t know whether they actually get pay back for their investment because for clubs like this money is no object and it does not matter if they lose tens of millions with their youth policy.

Even looking at Blackburn which is often mentioned when comparing our Academy has Blackburn’s been that successful ? They seem to have a couple of good young players broken through this season but they have been putting a lot of money in for a lot of years and like you mention we got fantastic young players in Zaroury, Benson, Beyer etc for not much money using a different approach.

It’s a tough decision for all clubs because gut feel for most fans is that we should have a great youth system and Academy and it’s fantastic when you get a player reaching the first team through this route. But if it’s not working then trying something else like we may be now that gets you to the same end will make fans just as happy !
I think Manchester City's academy has generated more in player sales in the last 5 years than we have in our 140 year history - Chelsea's Academy has been a net profit generator for at least a decade. Again, with huge sales in the period that dwarf our historical record.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by RVclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:40 pm
I think Manchester City's academy has generated more in player sales in the last 5 years than we have in our 140 year history - Chelsea's Academy has been a net profit generator for at least a decade. Again, with huge sales in the period that dwarf our historical record.
Haven’t both clubs spent incredible amounts on their academies though, under Abramovich / Mansour? Would be interesting to know how much is profit.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:42 pm

Rouwens_Weapon wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:30 pm
Don't know what the running costs are of the academy but if we could bring through one 'McNeil' every 4-5 years it should be self-sufficient.
For a Cat 1 Academy it is likely to be once every 3 years as the fundamental requirements - though it should be remembered we have had fees for a number of ex Academy players including Dunne and Benson, possibly for some who left in the summer too.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:42 pm
Haven’t both clubs spent incredible amounts on their academies though, under Abramovich / Mansour? Would be interesting to know how much is profit.
Absolutely, but both are contributing to the bottom line at their clubs, even with running costs in the region of £20m (and more) a season

The numbers are out there for you to find I believe

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by daveisaclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:46 pm

It's all well and good to say we don't need an academy while we've got Kompany to sign young players but that's the way you find yourself a few years down the line with no Kompany and no academy, isn't it?

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by jedi_master » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:58 pm

He looked really good in the cup a year or two back against Millwall, and he seriously impressed me in the summer in the friendly at Shrewsbury. I realise that the quality of those sides doesn’t speak volumes for his potential perhaps, but he is a really physically impressive looking player. I feel there’s a lot of potential in him, far more than Dunne had and he himself seems to have done really well at QPR?

I would be retaining Thomas to step into that Long role from the summer as the main backup to whoever are first choices are next season.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:08 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:58 pm
He looked really good in the cup a year or two back against Millwall, and he seriously impressed me in the summer in the friendly at Shrewsbury. I realise that the quality of those sides doesn’t speak volumes for his potential perhaps, but he is a really physically impressive looking player. I feel there’s a lot of potential in him, far more than Dunne had and he himself seems to have done really well at QPR?

I would be retaining Thomas to step into that Long role from the summer as the main backup to whoever are first choices are next season.
so would I

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:13 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:40 pm
I think Manchester City's academy has generated more in player sales in the last 5 years than we have in our 140 year history - Chelsea's Academy has been a net profit generator for at least a decade. Again, with huge sales in the period that dwarf our historical record.
Maybe they have made a profit / maybe they haven’t. Neither club are known for being particularly honest or open with their finances. I doubt very much there is full disclosure in their accounts about how much they pay the players, families etc to entice these players to the clubs. We know that Chelsea were paying Chalobah £30k a week as a youngster a number of years ago.

Personally I doubt very much whether either club have made a true profit from their youth systems. I can see why both clubs would be happy to tell the outside world that they were making a profit from their Academy systems and as I say I doubt very much whether you could prove this either way. It’s certainly not as black and white as you are making out it is.

As for the comparison to Burnley again I’m not sure that’s relevant either. Both clubs probably invest more into their Academies in one year than we have done in total in 140 years. What I do know is that when it was more of a level playing field and you could not pay a 16 year old kid a million pound a year and pay for all of his family to come and live in Alderley Edge that Burnley more than matched both these clubs in bringing youngsters through to the first team.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by dibraidio » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:41 pm

Richardson seems to be highly thought of at Grimsby, maybe he hasn't been scoring for fun but a lot of Grimsby fans seem to think they are more of a threat when he's on the pitch.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:51 pm

Re Chelsea's Academy, I'm playing in a Chelsea Community Foundation walking football session each week. They sent 5 coaches for session on Monday to coach 10 walking footballers, age range 60+. We pay £5 a session. We've been invited to Christmas Lunch at Stamford Bridge in a couple of weeks. No charge for the lunch.

Be great if they will arrange an away game at Turf Moor one day.

UTC

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:51 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:58 pm
He looked really good in the cup a year or two back against Millwall, and he seriously impressed me in the summer in the friendly at Shrewsbury. I realise that the quality of those sides doesn’t speak volumes for his potential perhaps, but he is a really physically impressive looking player. I feel there’s a lot of potential in him, far more than Dunne had and he himself seems to have done really well at QPR?

I would be retaining Thomas to step into that Long role from the summer as the main backup to whoever are first choices are next season.

The Long role shouldn't exist. In fact I'm sure it doesn't any longer.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by aggi » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:56 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:48 pm
You may be correct.
I think it’s really difficult for us and most clubs to bring players through their academy.
How many clubs have thrown tens of millions at their youth systems and still not had payback.
Even clubs like Chelsea and City who cream off many of the best young players from around the world we still don’t know whether they actually get pay back for their investment because for clubs like this money is no object and it does not matter if they lose tens of millions with their youth policy.

Even looking at Blackburn which is often mentioned when comparing our Academy has Blackburn’s been that successful ? They seem to have a couple of good young players broken through this season but they have been putting a lot of money in for a lot of years and like you mention we got fantastic young players in Zaroury, Benson, Beyer etc for not much money using a different approach.

It’s a tough decision for all clubs because gut feel for most fans is that we should have a great youth system and Academy and it’s fantastic when you get a player reaching the first team through this route. But if it’s not working then trying something else like we may be now that gets you to the same end will make fans just as happy !
Even if you think Chelsea and Man City haven't made a profit (I suspect all those hefty loan and transfer fees probably do give a profit) it's a good way of "laundering" money for FFP. Lots of spend in academies, etc is deductible for FFP purposes and then you get the transfer and loan fees in which are extra revenue for FFP.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Hipper » Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:08 pm

Kevin Long was amongst the goals at Accrington and Barnsley. I'm not sure if that means that much (regarding Thomas scoring goals at Bristol Rovers).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Long_(footballer)

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by FeedTheArf » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:53 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:46 pm
It's all well and good to say we don't need an academy while we've got Kompany to sign young players but that's the way you find yourself a few years down the line with no Kompany and no academy, isn't it?
Absolutely!

And if it were me in charge I’d continue to fund the academy, but I’m a fan, not a private equity firm.

As I say, it will be interesting to see what ALK do. They’ve already lost the Cat 1 status. When you’ve got Kompany pulling players out of a hat on a relative shoestring on the one hand and a Cat 2 academy that has produced one first team player in X number of years on the other hand you could see why they might think of diverting their funds/attention elsewhere.

That said, the prestige that comes with a Cat 1 academy will help ALK attract investors which, IMO, is still their priority in the short term.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:25 pm

FeedTheArf wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:53 pm
Absolutely!

And if it were me in charge I’d continue to fund the academy, but I’m a fan, not a private equity firm.
An interesting aside - in a recent interview that I posted on the Takeover thread it was made explicitly clear that ALK Capital LLC is not a Private Equity firm - prior to that it has not really been clear if it was nor not.

Stayingup
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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Stayingup » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:38 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:48 pm
You may be correct.
I think it’s really difficult for us and most clubs to bring players through their academy.
How many clubs have thrown tens of millions at their youth systems and still not had payback.
Even clubs like Chelsea and City who cream off many of the best young players from around the world we still don’t know whether they actually get pay back for their investment because for clubs like this money is no object and it does not matter if they lose tens of millions with their youth policy.

Even looking at Blackburn which is often mentioned when comparing our Academy has Blackburn’s been that successful ? They seem to have a couple of good young players broken through this season but they have been putting a lot of money in for a lot of years and like you mention we got fantastic young players in Zaroury, Benson, Beyer etc for not much money using a different approach.

It’s a tough decision for all clubs because gut feel for most fans is that we should have a great youth system and Academy and it’s fantastic when you get a player reaching the first team through this route. But if it’s not working then trying something else like we may be now that gets you to the same end will make fans just as happy !
I seem to recall West Ham scrapping their youth team.because it was unproductive. They just buy in players if they need one, as do most of the top clubs. Although I know Manchester City for example spend a lot on trying to develop players.

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:49 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:38 pm
I seem to recall West Ham scrapping their youth team.because it was unproductive. They just buy in players if they need one, as do most of the top clubs. Although I know Manchester City for example spend a lot on trying to develop players.
West Ham?
Do you mean Brentford, because they definitely did but have now had to reopen it.
It's also a requirement for a club to have one if they want to play in Europe

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:26 pm

Sorry for being on topic, but he's a great candidate for a song to "Rebel Rebel"

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Re: Bobby Thomas

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:50 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:40 pm
I think Manchester City's academy has generated more in player sales in the last 5 years than we have in our 140 year history - Chelsea's Academy has been a net profit generator for at least a decade. Again, with huge sales in the period that dwarf our historical record.
I'm certain the headline figure in sales is impressive, but they pay a fortune for some of the youngsters they sign on, millions on some. They probably pay most of them something akin to our lowest earners, and the day to day costs of running their academy must be expensive.
If it pays off, it can't be massive unless you take into account what they saved on buying these players themselves as a finished 22 year old.
It's an expensive gamble, that only those clubs with a sugar daddy can hope to imitate, because the cost of any failure is covered.

I know we have to play the same game, to buy players that can generate a profit, but our finances suggest we have to be a lot cuter about it than Citeh or Chelsea.

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