I suspect when Liverpool won the league after a number of decades without a title their supporters couldn't care less how they won it.
Neither did Leicester City supporters either.
I suspect when Liverpool won the league after a number of decades without a title their supporters couldn't care less how they won it.
Liverpool played some of the most exciting football the Prem has seen?
The point is fans are never really bothered if they win trophies.
This isn't true at all and there is no evidence to suggest a manager transforms when given a few quid to spend. Rafa Benitez didn't transform into Pep/Klopp. Managers build a team to play their way, recruit players to play their style.
When Dyche was here it was posters saying ''nah we're not a long ball side'' soon as Dyche is sacked the same people start with the ''now we're not playing long ball''
The article and graphics clearly show the differences between playing the occasional long pass and being a genuine long ball team. Alexander Arnold for example plays incredible weighted passes to switch play, there’s a difference between that and Ben Mee launching continuous 4 irons into the channel in the hope someone wins a fk.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:39 pmLong ball isn't dead, it works for teams, even the big teams resort to it but the media refer to it as a long sweeping pass and other such vomit inducing guff.
Teams do what they need to win, or simply survive.
Getting all snobbish about it is just bizarre, especially as without it we wouldn't have spent so long in the PL.
Jay Rod £10m, Hendrick £10m, Wood £17m, Gibson £15m, Brownhill £8m, Gray £8m, Brady £13m, Collins £12m, Weghorst £12m, Cornet £13m.jdrobbo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:31 amMy few words on this….
Dyche was always true to his word about playing mixed, effective football.
The football we played during his first promotion season was sensational in large parts.
It was excellent during the championship winning season.
It was fabulous in the season we qualified for Europe.
THEN….tensions started to arise, funds and players weren’t found as readily (they rarely were) due to ongoing issues with the board, so Dyche did what he thought was best to keep the club up. That worked for two or three more seasons, but eventually you get found out.
I think people get confused around this topic, a topic I've dealt with for years. People get confused between style and results.claretbob wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:00 pmIf we hadn’t spent so long in the Prem playing Dyche’s so called “dinosaur” football does anyone think for one minute that Kompany would have agreed to manage us? Our profile was raised enormously by SD and if as we all hope the VK style is both easy on the eye and effective it’s a clear win-win.
Can anyone imagine VK agreeing to manage Blackpool or Rovers this summer?
Pulis and Jose used to have Dyche's number, Pulis would play 4 central defenders and sit deep knowing we couldn't break them down. I remember Jose at United, he used Fellaini and stuck him on one of our strikers and completely nullified all of our threat.Shaggy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:03 pmThere’s a huge difference between long cultured passes aimed just infront of a player to run on to in the open to just launching it into the mixer and hope for a second phase ball.
Under Dyche we were the latter. The game plan never changed ever. As soon as a team employed 3 centre halves at the back we were done for and couldn’t land a glove on them.
The promotion seasons we still had less of the ball and still whacked it long but as has been mentioned we weren’t as cautious and players got forward to support.
Dyche done a good job for us but survival at the cost of everything else ( pathetic cup efforts ) was as far as he could muster.
There’s arguments to say that Dyche never had the funds…. To some degree yes but he also never sold players often or looked abroad for cheaper players. The squad he had was his, the style of play was his.
I don’t see Dyche achieving much as a manager from now on as only a struggling premier league club will come
I’m for him and I don’t think his methods work from day one they need time. He needs a club that will give him time and patience and I just can’t see that happening.
Dyche will probably find his way into the international set up somewhere following that other borebag bang average manager Southgate.
If you want to disagree with Dyche fine but I know what he told us.KRBFC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:30 pmThis isn't true at all and there is no evidence to suggest a manager transforms when given a few quid to spend. Rafa Benitez didn't transform into Pep/Klopp. Managers build a team to play their way, recruit players to play their style.
Look at the differences between Coyle's team and Dyche's teams, the styles were completely different despite the huge difference in finance.
Dyche is what he is, a long ball pragmatic 442 manager, that will never change, for better or worse.
what Dyche said or didnt say is irrelevant. The proof is in the pudding. The players we signed/targeted the way we approached games, the use of subs ( or lack of ) all say different. Dyche is a meat and 2 veg 4-4-2 man playing long ball with no roatation, no tactical changes nothing. plug and play tactics if plan a didnt work it didnt work there was no plan b. nearly 10 years of data to go on.
If you want to say that Dyche tells lies, then fine.Shaggy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:34 pmwhat Dyche said or didnt say is irrelevant. The proof is in the pudding. The players we signed/targeted the way we approached games, the use of subs ( or lack of ) all say different. Dyche is a meat and 2 veg 4-4-2 man playing long ball with no roatation, no tactical changes nothing. plug and play tactics if plan a didnt work it didnt work there was no plan b. nearly 10 years of data to go on.
KefkaClaret wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:42 pmIf Dyche had proper investment over the years we would be a stable mid-table Premier league club. The factor that may cause problems in Dyche getting a job is in transfers.
There's a huge difference between playing long to switch the football, with the ball landing at the feet of the teammate on the opposite side of the field and simply punting it forward somewhere in the radius of a 6ft 3 striker and hoping to win freekicks and flick ons. 1 is a long pass, the other is a hoof.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:15 pmLiverpool often play long to Robertson and TAA as they sprint up in anticipation of the pass
Long or short the secret is Cullen style accuracy played to feet, not a hit and hope high ball.
Sorry I phrased it poorly. I think at a new club Dyche would have a lot less input on transfers considering most teams go for a director of football nowadays to make signings.
spot on!KRBFC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:06 pmI think people get confused around this topic, a topic I've dealt with for years. People get confused between style and results.
When being honest and speaking about our long ball style under Dyche, that is not criticising the results under Dyche. It's not personally attacking Dyche, it doesn't mean anyone dislikes Dyche, It doesn't mean anyone wants Dyche to leave, it doesn't mean we're unaware of the good things Dyche has done.
Calling Dyche a long ball manager is not an attack on Dyche, it's calling a spade, a spade.
NRC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:10 pmspot on!
I would add, and while doing so take the underlying reason to sell/run down the contracts of our PL players out of the equation, SD had budget to spend how he chose to spend it, whereas VK has gone for a different type of player. Both managers had choices and both made them. VK has not had a fiduciary advantage over SD.
We'll never know on the direct comparison until a VK team has to succeed in the PL
We also had the option to sell Tarkowski for £30m and re-invest that money. If Dyche was desperate to change things up, he could easily have raised funds from sales to do so. Not to mention his stubbornness towards using the loan market. Dyche liked his British players, unfortunately it's the most expensive market to shop in. Young players weren't really Dyche's bag either. Our transfer approach was so limited and short term thinking. Had Dyche have spent £10m on a 23 year old striker instead of 29 year old Rodriguez, 2 years down the line we'd have had a 25 year old striker instead of 31 year old Rodriguez.NRC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:10 pmspot on!
I would add, and while doing so take the underlying reason to sell/run down the contracts of our PL players out of the equation, SD had budget to spend how he chose to spend it, whereas VK has gone for a different type of player. Both managers had choices and both made them. VK has not had a fiduciary advantage over SD.
We'll never know on the direct comparison until a VK team has to succeed in the PL
RVclaret wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:03 amIntriguing Athletic article today which we are at the centre of.
Basically asking the question that now we are gone from the PL, is that the end of long ball football in the PL?
It’s a ridiculous question really . Players will always use the option of what some refer to as ‘ long ball football ‘ ( or often more correctly referred to as ….‘ long pass football ‘) when the situation deems it necessary . Of course, by and large, a long pass will more often than not be more effective than a short pass as territorial advantage is important .
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Ft ... n%3D711528
I actually think that's why he brought in Brady, Defour, and Vydra. But with the long term injuries to Brady and Defour we had to revert back to playing it over the top and Vydra didn't fit that style of play hence his lack of game time. After that he didn't have the funds to buy players of that calibre again.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:25 amWe played some terrific football in 2017/18 that saw us play a much more expansive game. That's what he wanted to continue doing, that's how he saw us evolving. It got us into Europe but then he had his hands tied behind his back in terms of squad building and I'm not sure what on earth he could have done then.
It's just not true that he made no attempt to move away from the same system at all.
Just from the top of my head…
Like Che Adams you mean. How effective has he been? What's he worth now?
Re 3, we bought in Vydra and Gibson (and Hart because of the goalkeeper injury situation). On paper two pretty good signings. Unfortunately Defour and Brady never really recovered from their injuries (was Gudmundsson also injured for long periods?) and Vydra hardly played (wasn't he injured at some stage?).Lord_Bob wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:03 amTwo points on Dyche from my point of view:
1) greatest manager the team has had in my life time - and I go back to Potts in the 60's. What he has done for the club is unbelievable. Just my view, other will argue.
2) there was a change in the later Dyche years - remember when he first came and started talking about "moving it through the units?" The Barnes goal against Wigan epitomized that. In recent years, you never heard that phrase. It was all "mixed football" or something similar, which really meant, hit it long and fight for the second ball. Not sure why, but I see the loss of that "move it through the units" as being very important.
3) OK - I said 2 but meant 3. We - whoever you want to call "we" - blew it the transfer window after we reached Europe. That's when we should have pushed the boat out. We were an up and coming team, in Europe, with then a highly regarded manager, we could have attracted some real talent. We blew it. If we weren't going to "gamble" then, relegation was going to be the only outcome.