For info… just had this mail come in…

It's so you don't block the view of the corporate box mob.

I'm sure they've sent out an almost identical letter in the past, its one area of the ground you wouldn't get a season ticket if you wanted to sit all match, has been that way for as long as I can remember.

As usual been said. It has been this way for as long as I can remember. If supporters want to sit, you can get tickets for anywhere else in the ground. I fail to see how standing causes blockages to medical staff as opposed to sitting.

Marvellous. Something is happening regarding safety at last. Speaking as a Technical member of IOSH, I welcome any moves by the club to improve safety during match days.

By all means ask the crowd to sit down because it adversely affects others who wish to sit. They are forced to stand or miss large parts of the game. Fair enough, absolutely right to try to make this happen. Using reasoning that it leads to overcrowding and therefore hiding behind H&S can be argued I think. We CANT overcrowd because every seat has a ticket and therefore there can’t be more people on the ground than there are seats. Sure people can choose not to sit in their seats and move elsewhere but they are only moving to an empty seat, not sharing a seat therefore causing overcrowding.
Likewise there is no issue with getting medical staff to people in the crowd because people are standing instead of sitting. Either standing or sitting will have to move to allow access.

Using H&S in this way undermines the really good work done by H&S professionals all over the country.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have sent emails to the club regarding the safety issues on the CFS concourse only for them to be ignored. There are far bigger issues on there than people standing to watch the game on the longside.

Having said that, let’s hope that people at the club are finally taking notice of the match day experience, and applying sound reasoning and logic to solve problems BEFORE we have a major incident.

The overcrowding element is a strange one. How does standing or sitting of a ticket holder ever affect that ?

Also - No email of the sort for those in the CFS where I am not sure any supporter sits to view the game...

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:04 am

It's so you don't block the view of the corporate box mob.

this is true. i usually find it difficult to view the entire game when I'm sat down at our table whilst selfish idiots in front of us stand all game. have some decorum please. this year my brother and i are taking our young children with us for the Luton and Blackpool games and its costing a fair bit of money. So please don spoil it for us and especially the young kids.

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:31 am

Also - No email of the sort for those in the CFS where I am not sure any supporter sits to view the game...

That was my thoughts too. I’m normally in CFS but moved for this game so I could get an additional ticket to our 3, and there are no spares in CFS apparently this season

If you don’t stand in the first few rows of those horrendously constructed stands you end up looking up all the game!!

pushpinpussy wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:42 am

this is true. i usually find it difficult to view the entire game when I'm sat down at our table whilst selfish idiots in front of us stand all game. have some decorum please. this year my brother and i are taking our young children with us for the Luton and Blackpool games and its costing a fair bit of money. So please don spoil it for us and especially the young kids.

Move 1 block down where they all sit. Assuming that you are in blocks 1 and 2, why would you get tickets for this block? It isn’t an unknown.

In terms of safety, I have moved from the CFS to the longside for safety reasons. Underneath that stand is that crowded it’s an accident waiting to happen. Do something about that before lecturing blocks 1 and 2 of the north stand if they are going to hide behind health and safety.

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:30 am

The overcrowding element is a strange one. How does standing or sitting of a ticket holder ever affect that ?

Not really, when everyone's standing peoples mates who couldnt get tickets for that area can just pile into rows meaning there are more people than seats. As soon as people are forced to sit down it immediately becomes obvious that there are people in that area without seats and they can be moved on

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:50 am

That was my thoughts too. I’m normally in CFS but moved for this game so I could get an additional ticket to our 3, and there are no spares in CFS apparently this season

It’s all to do with the corporate boxes view that’s why. Nothing to do with H and S. Surely in an emergency if medical teams need to get to somebody, getting past standing people is easier that getting past seated ones?

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:57 am

It’s all to do with the corporate boxes view that’s why. Nothing to do with H and S. Surely in an emergency if medical teams need to get to somebody, getting past standing people is easier that getting past seated ones?

And if it is that’s a perfectly good reason for people to sit down.

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:30 am

The overcrowding element is a strange one. How does standing or sitting of a ticket holder ever affect that ?

Because you'll find that there's more stood there than actual seats as they all congregate in one spot. Always happens to back of stands at away games

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 am

Not really, when everyone's standing peoples mates who couldnt get tickets for that area can just pile into rows meaning there are more people than seats. As soon as people are forced to sit down it immediately becomes obvious that there are people in that area without seats and they can be moved on

Then the stewards should be doing their jobs they are paid to do.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:00 pm

Then the stewards should be doing their jobs they are paid to do.

I mean I wasn't advocating the rights or wrong of it but just explaining how overcrowding can be linked to people standing. If you really want stewards to do their job then remember one of their main jobs would be to make sure people dont persist in standing in seated areas but Im not sure you'd actually be a fan of the Stewards doing this part of their job.

The definition of 'persistent' might be tricky to establish

Belial wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:52 pm

The definition of 'persistent' might be tricky to establish

Very true be then again "the stewards should be doing their jobs they are paid to do"

The last time this issue came to a head it was because of the corporate box holders directly behind that section complaining their attendees couldn’t see when they bothered to go outside to sit down, which many don’t. I think Aircelle have one of the boxes?

The design of the stands, in hindsight, isn’t great. At the time though they just expected all fans to sit throughout the game when stadiums went all seater. I think they thought the old Longsiders would end up sat behind the goal at the Bee Hole End as that was the cheapest place for tickets.

I recall Turf Moor is an 'ALL-Seater' stadium.

Not sure why there is an argument. It is a condition of purchase.

The stewards we use are young kids and don't have the power to make persistent standers sit down.

clarets1978 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:58 am

Because you'll find that there's more stood there than actual seats as they all congregate in one spot. Always happens to back of stands at away games

I appreciate thats fairly common at away games, but suprised to hear that happens in the home end. Especially to a level that the club felt neccessary to email a warning !

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:13 pm

The stewards we use are young kids and don't have the power to make persistent standers sit down.

The stewards in the CFS spend most of the game vaping in the toilets

Part of this problem is that not too long ago the club facilitated the standing in this area. People knew that it was going to be standing and it worked.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:04 pm

I recall Turf Moor is an 'ALL-Seater' stadium.

Not sure why there is an argument. It is a condition of purchase.

If there was no argument there wouldn't have been the widespread need for 'safe standing' areas within grounds.

Goody1975 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:23 pm

If there was no argument there wouldn't have been the widespread need for 'safe standing' areas within grounds.

I have no issue with sage standing areas, Goody. The no argument relates to the current status. The 2 should not be mixed.

The only way you can get any sort of a good view of the pitch in those parts of the ground is if you stand up. Off the top of my head I don't know how much it costs in there but anything much more than a tenner is too much for the view you get.

Pickles wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:11 pm

The only way you can get any sort of a good view of the pitch in those parts of the ground is if you stand up. Off the top of my head I don't know how much it costs in there but anything much more than a tenner is too much for the view you get.

Correct, and that is why the seats near the front are the last to sell but the opposite is the case in the Bob Lord Stand. Yes, the BLS has supporting pillars which add restricted view seats but the front wall is high enough to give excellent views in Row A.

The reason a lot of us dislike the new stands, they were badly thought out and done to a budget, you cut corners and you end up with a substandard finish.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm

I have no issue with sage standing areas, Goody. The no argument relates to the current status. The 2 should not be mixed.

The stands have been in use since 1996 and just about everybody knows where to go to avoid people using bad language and places where persistent standing is the norm.

This relates to people in the box not your normal run of the mill fan, they pay more cash and deserve a premium product, I suggest the club displaces more fans from the back rows to please the suits. They won't have had their seats for more than a season and built up friendships, will they?

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:31 am

Also - No email of the sort for those in the CFS where I am not sure any supporter sits to view the game...

That was my first thought.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm

Part of this problem is that not too long ago the club facilitated the standing in this area. People knew that it was going to be standing and it worked.

I also got one of those emails. To support your point CT, when I first chose to purchase a season ticket online it was pointed out that fans were prone to stand at games in those 2 blocks. I love standing at games and would apply for a safe standing position if available. however I don't think we even applied. I was quite happy to accept the warning and I have participated in 'safe standing' ever since. Even if I didn't wish to stand up I have little option as people in front of me frequently stand all game and to see the pitch I am forced to follow suit. When the monsoon season starts and the roof of the Longside is made redundant there is nothing worse than sitting on a wet seat while rain pours down on top of you (I am positioned more than half way back from the pitch and it certainly shouldn't be described as 'covered seating'). I find it a lot easier to stand up than to sit in those wintry conditions and so do many others. Bar a few games each PL season, when top 6 clubs were visiting, those 2 sections were rarely sold out and there were plenty of empty seats, so overcrowding is not an issue. In the email I received today it offers me a permanent swop to another part of the ground. I won't be accepting it. I know its against the rules to stand but the vast majority of us stand at away games. The club bent the rules when it sold season tickets in those blocks at the same time as it was aware of frequent/persistent standing and publicly stated that on its website.

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:47 pm

The stewards in the CFS spend most of the game vaping in the toilets

I'm surprised there's the room.

Stewards gave it more of an effort than usual today, brought out some more senior ones who were threatening fans that they would cancel their season tickets if they refused to sit.

Didn't make much headway.

Not a word to those of us in the CFS. I don't think I have sat down in there for a single game since it re-opened for home fans. The only people who do are those with younger kids who sit at the very front.

But then, the only people whose view id spoilt by standing in the CFS is us oiks who pay to go in there!

bfcmik wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:26 pm

Not a word to those of us in the CFS. I don't think I have sat down in there for a single game since it re-opened for home fans. The only people who do are those with younger kids who sit at the very front.

But then, the only people whose view id spoilt by standing in the CFS is us oiks who pay to go in there!

You're not blocking any corporate fans view in the CF.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:37 pm

You're not blocking any corporate fans view in the CF.

Aint that the truth!

I took up a new ST seat today, moving from JHL to JHU. I'd had enough of the hospitality immediately behind me and not all of it home support. Probably less of an issue this season but I am very glad to be away from it. I'm well over 6 foot so the additional legroom in the upper is much appreciated. New manager, new team, new seats, no suits!

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 am

Not really, when everyone's standing peoples mates who couldnt get tickets for that area can just pile into rows meaning there are more people than seats. As soon as people are forced to sit down it immediately becomes obvious that there are people in that area without seats and they can be moved on

Great point. We were at Watford away last season and mates of some lads in row in front of us all piled in and I would estimate there were two people standing to every seat. Serious overcrowding with drunken and coked up fans. Not good if someone needed to get to the exits promptly.

The stewards yesterday in the JHL were an absolute joke. I entered the concourse yesterday to a patronising steward saying “just to remind you this is a sit down game” to which I replied “what even when we score” to which he said “yeah”. They spent half of the first and second half blocking the view of supporters who were seated who then had to stand to see the game as they were too busy arguing with supporters stood up.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:11 pm

Great point. We were at Watford away last season and mates of some lads in row in front of us all piled in and I would estimate there were two people standing to every seat. Serious overcrowding with drunken and coked up fans. Not good if someone needed to get to the exits promptly.

Several lads tried to double stand next and along from me, there. I asked the young lad next to me, who now had someone standing and wriggling about, in front of him, if he knew the culprit.

He said no. I tapped the infiltrator on his arm and told him he couldn't stand there. It was not his seat, the lad could not see and nor could I now. At first he turned away to his line of mates. I repeated the exercise. He looked at me, turned round to his mates and they all left.

Must have sent them your way!

Mattster wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:05 pm

Stewards gave it more of an effort than usual today, brought out some more senior ones who were threatening fans that they would cancel their season tickets if they refused to sit.

Didn't make much headway.

You're right about not making headway but it was security in suits rather than stewards in yellow jackets who made the threats. I was near the fans who were being told their season tickets would be cancelled and they just shrugged it off. Problem is not all of those seats are held by st holders so they had nothing to lose Most of them just ignored the security and those seats will be occupied by different fans at next game.The club need to engage in dialogue with st holders in those sections rather than send threatening emails or sending in the heavies.

Marty Dobson wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:16 pm

The club need to engage in dialogue with st holders in those sections rather than send threatening emails or sending in the heavies.

That's exactly what the club did not many years ago when Cliff Edens was the ground safety officer. It was all done amicably and everything was sorted out with an area where people can stand. To get back to this state now is just ridiculous and extremely poor on the club's part, they seem to have ignored the previous agreements.

Marty Dobson wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:16 pm

You're right about not making headway but it was security in suits rather than stewards in yellow jackets who made the threats. I was near the fans who were being told their season tickets would be cancelled and they just shrugged it off. Problem is not all of those seats are held by st holders so they had nothing to lose Most of them just ignored the security and those seats will be occupied by different fans at next game.The club need to engage in dialogue with st holders in those sections rather than send threatening emails or sending in the heavies.

Also a fair number don't sit in their allocated seats in certain areas, so threatening a specific seat will not feel like much of a threat.

You can’t argue with that really

You just can't see this ending well.

Maybe it's just me, but if that letter is genuine, the content of the letter and actions taken by the club makes the letter starting with 'hi' seem very odd!

I think it's absolutely shocking to be honest.

If they'd taken this decision at the start of the year and given plenty of notice before people renewed season tickets, fair enough. Some people wouldn't like it but nobody could call it unreasonable.

To tell people in the days before the season starts and move straight to banning them is **** poor.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:49 pm

looks like they aren't mucking about, this is on twitter

Slightly hypocritical that letter. States the rules for persistent standing at stadiums but then it is a bit like "we don't care about anywhere else in the stadium where people persistently stand for 90 minutes, just the north stand lower".

Surely if the club want to make a plan regarding this issue then it is a plan for the whole stadium, not for them to pick and choose where they enforce it?

As alluded to earlier, it's all about the corporates. And that they've complained about not being able to see.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:24 pm

As alluded to earlier, it's all about the corporates. And that they've complained about not being able to see.

Yes but it's okay for Preston fans (and any opposition fans) to leave their box when they score and antagonise the home support.

It's a f***ing disgrace is that letter.