No, you're wrong.Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:32 amSo what you are alluding to is that if they can't stand in the JHL then nobody can stand?
Am i right?
Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Because it's not what I'm saying. In my opinion, there should be rail seating in the CFS to allow "safe" standing but until that time fans should be allowed to stand in the CFS. The purpose of sharing the SGSA document is to critically challenge the assertion being made by some, that this has nothing to do with hospitality.Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:36 amGo on why? You wanted a fuller explanation when i gave a short response.
You've not read the document have you?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
The club statement says that there is increased stewarding and safety procedures in place in the CFS.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
In time hopefully there will be rail seating in there. There is no assertion it has nothing to do with hospitality. There is zero proof it is to do with hospitality. That is the point.Duffer_ wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:45 amBecause it's not what I'm saying. In my opinion, there should be rail seating in the CFS to allow "safe" standing but until that time fans should be allowed to stand in the CFS. The purpose of sharing the SGSA document is to critically challenge the assertion being made by some, that this has nothing to do with hospitality.
I'll say it again....
They are persistently standing in an area of the ground that is not set aside (unlike the arrangement in the CFS) for standing. Therefore they are breaking ground regulations. The club have turned a blind eye to it for quite some time now...presumably not wanting to rock the boat. If corporate have been complaining then it would be fair to say they've been ignored for years and i can't see that being the case.
Now the authorities have had enough..for whatever reason..and have issued an ultimatum to the club. We could debate how they've handled it but ultimately one thing matters.
They are no longer allowed to stand in the JHL. It's a seated area.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
The only way it gets resolved is when they eventually build a new CFS with rail seating in the whole place, and a new concourse that is fit for purpose.
Until then, if you're in JHL, looks like you're going to have to sit
Until then, if you're in JHL, looks like you're going to have to sit
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
The club statement also makes reference to offers being made to relocate fans to the CFS. A claim that ST holders in the JHL do not recognise. I'm sure there are additional stewards in the CFS, primarily to enforce segregation. I have asked those who have recently attended games in both CFS and JHL to share their experience on what additional safety procedures are in place. What might those increased safety procedures look like?
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Could we reduce the away allocation to create more space in the CFS? I suspect not, mainly due to the concourse issues
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
What makes you think fans would be able to see what the increased safety procedures look like?Duffer_ wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:00 amThe club statement also makes reference to offers being made to relocate fans to the CFS. A claim that ST holders in the JHL do not recognise. I'm sure there are additional stewards in the CFS, primarily to enforce segregation. I have asked those who have recently attended games in both CFS and JHL to share their experience on what additional safety procedures are in place. What might those increased safety procedures look like?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
The more this comes out in public, the more likely that the CFS will be enforced all-seater. Mattster sill won't be able to stand, but nor will anyone else. Whether that's a good result or not - ???claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:01 amYou should keep contacting them preferably in public i.e on twitter asking why they have put a statement out which is ******** and also put the response given to you public on the same post.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
He's clutching at straws. I get the feeling that he thinks not only is the club making it all up but the safety authorities too.
What it comes down to is a sheer pigheadedness to follow the rules that have always been in place. As though they don't apply to them simply because they've been given leaway for so long.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
That won't happen DSR. I don't know how many people sit in the CFS but I know it will be impossible to force them all to sit down. Short of banning all of them, which is highly unlikely, I can't think of any way they could enforce this.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
I don't know how they enforce it either. But if too many complaints are raised in public, it's as likely that the stand will ultimately be closed as it is that Mattster will be allowed to stand and block the view of the people behind. Neither is particularly likely, but it's possible. Not worth the risk.Mrpotatohead wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:18 amThat won't happen DSR. I don't know how many people sit in the CFS but I know it will be impossible to force them all to sit down. Short of banning all of them, which is highly unlikely, I can't think of any way they could enforce this.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
"He" can hear you and has a (user) nameSomethingfishy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:17 amHe's clutching at straws. I get the feeling that he thinks not only is the club making it all up but the safety authorities too.
The safety authorities have not made a public statement on standing in JHL, so what exactly do I think they are making up? I don't know why you are choosing to misrepresent my opinions rather than advance your own.
The reality is that none of us know why the Club is taking this action. Some choose to accept what the Club is saying at face value and that is a perfectly reasonable position to hold. Others are unhappy with the Club's approach and are seeking more information to validate what is being said and to understand the reasons for the Club's approach. Vive la difference!
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
People have been standing there as long as the stand has been open, they were told to sit down with 2 days' notice, months after renewing season tickets, and are now being given fake reasons why. I don't think it's weird to not like it.Swizzlestick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:31 amNothing to add to Rileybobs posts which are absolutely spot on. Folk are being a bit weird about this.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Sorry Duffer but no-one has been promised standing in the JHL before. No-one has the right to stand at a football match regardless of what your perceived entitlements are. It is an accommodation granted by the club in consultation with H&S.
Have some common decency for those supporters around you who don't want to stand and are having their view restricted regardless of where they are sat.
If you want to stand buy a ticket at the back of the CFS,
Can't get one this season? tough try again next year.
Have some common decency for those supporters around you who don't want to stand and are having their view restricted regardless of where they are sat.
If you want to stand buy a ticket at the back of the CFS,
Can't get one this season? tough try again next year.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Joe Bloggs might not want to move from the Cricket Field stand? Why should he have to move if he purchased a seat in an all seater stadium?dsr wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:35 pmOf course the club picked that area. The CFS is an unoffical standing area, which the club cannot legally confirm but has made it pretty clear. Obviously you don't want the CFS to be an unofficial standing area and want the people to be made to sit. Might I ask why you want this?
If Joe Bloggs in the CFS hasn't noticed by now that people are standing, then he hasn't been there long. He at least will be able to take up the offer of a move to another area.
I don't want "no" standing, but what I do want is for fans to be treated equally and fairly. There is nothing equal or fair about banning some specific fans for standing in one area when there are thousands of other fans in other areas of the ground that are not following the same rules. The solution is to have a safe standing section of the ground quite obviously. When specific fans are targeted then people will always speculate as to why. The only difference with this area and others that experience consistent standing is the corporate section. If anyone can offer another reason why this area has been specifically targeted then fair enough but there isn't one that I've seen.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
If they had official safe standing, you would still have different areas following different rules.boyyanno wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:30 amJoe Bloggs might not want to move from the Cricket Field stand? Why should he have to move if he purchased a seat in an all seater stadium?
I don't want "no" standing, but what I do want is for fans to be treated equally and fairly. There is nothing equal or fair about banning some specific fans for standing in one area when there are thousands of other fans in other areas of the ground that are not following the same rules. The solution is to have a safe standing section of the ground quite obviously. When specific fans are targeted then people will always speculate as to why. The only difference with this area and others that experience consistent standing is the corporate section. If anyone can offer another reason why this area has been specifically targeted then fair enough but there isn't one that I've seen.
Which is it that you want - all fans allowed to stand anywhere in the ground and the old, the disabled, the unfit, and the rich can just sod off - or no fans allowed to stand at all?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Why do you want to change the status quo of standing in the CFS and 2 or 3 blocks in JHL? What material change has there been in the risk associated with standing in the JHL this season compared to last?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
If people can't see because other people are standing in front of them, then why shouldn't they sit down?
I sit with my mother in the corporate area, though not that end. If people stand up, then she won't be able to see. Apart from that, my main point is still that if there are people jumping up and down about the CFS being "standing" and other areas not, then the most likely result is that the CFS will no longer be "standing permitted" or rather "standing winked at".
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
For those complaining about having to sit in JHL, would you mind at all if I was in the row in front of you and erected a tent to watch the match?
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Plenty of I’m alright jacks on this thread.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
If there was safe standing then all the fans WOULD be following the rules. The rules may be different in Stand A as they are in Stand B, but everyone would still be following the rules.dsr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:35 amIf they had official safe standing, you would still have different areas following different rules.
Which is it that you want - all fans allowed to stand anywhere in the ground and the old, the disabled, the unfit, and the rich can just sod off - or no fans allowed to stand at all?
Currently no one is following the rules and yet only a small portion of fans are being punished for it- does that seem fair to you?
What I want is for common sense to prevail and the club not to hand out ridiculously harsh punishments such as banning paying customers and then publicly shaming them for all to see by covering their seats and putting a sign on them. WIth all due respect but how is it fair to Customer A in that section to be banned and shamed and yet Customers B through to Z in other areas of the ground are doing the exact same thing but allowed to continue?
I want fans to be treated fairly and equally. If that means sitting for all then so be it. I don't think it's a stretch to want Equality and Equity.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Exactly, I’ll do what I want to do and xxxx everybody else. I blame the parents...
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
So would you expect anyone buying seats to know that is where I pitched my tent? Has everyone behind my row always been there since the 90's and usually help by bringing along a stove and mallows for the match?daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:53 amIf your tent had been there since the 90s I wouldn't buy a seat behind it and be surprised I couldn't see.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
The SGSA Enforcement Approach should allay your fears. There's no winking, the SGSA recognise that standing happens and encourage it to be managed, notably in areas of lower risk (lower tier and gradient of less than 25 degrees) and, if all else fails, through rail seating.
"Additionally, the document outlines what further action can be taken by ground management to manage residual safety risks for those spectators who still choose to stand in seated areas. These include:
Limiting persistent standing to areas where the safety risks are lower;
Recognising particular triggers associated with persistent standing and addressing them in the development and implementation of up to date and fit for purpose persistent standing management plans;
Installing seats with barriers or independent rails where persistent standing continues to take place, in line with guidance of the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (Green Guide), although only once all other measures have been tried"
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Personally, I would sit for you Steddyman. Long enough for you to make arrangements to relocate to another part of the ground. I am a reasonable person and that includes not allowing a tryanny of the minority.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
You've got contradictory aims. You want common sense to prevail, but you also want the entire CFS to be made to sit just because Mattster and others can't stand.boyyanno wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:54 amIf there was safe standing then all the fans WOULD be following the rules. The rules may be different in Stand A as they are in Stand B, but everyone would still be following the rules.
Currently no one is following the rules and yet only a small portion of fans are being punished for it- does that seem fair to you?
What I want is for common sense to prevail and the club not to hand out ridiculously harsh punishments such as banning paying customers and then publicly shaming them for all to see by covering their seats and putting a sign on them. WIth all due respect but how is it fair to Customer A in that section to be banned and shamed and yet Customers B through to Z in other areas of the ground are doing the exact same thing but allowed to continue?
I want fans to be treated fairly and equally. If that means sitting for all then so be it. I don't think it's a stretch to want Equality and Equity.
You clearly haven't noticed that the rules as they are applied at present allow the CFS to stand and other areas not to. You seem to think the letter of the law is an absolute and we can't deviate from it - but you want common sense to apply?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
That sounds very decent of you, thanks. Only I'm the guy with the tent and I'm thinking of getting a bigger one
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
No. I want the rules to be applied fairly. Ignore the CFS for a second. What about the fans standing in the JH upper? What about the other areas of the ground? Of course it's common sense. If it's okay for people to stand in the CFS then so be it. But how does that explain why only fans from a small and specific area of the ground have been targeted and how is that fair?dsr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:27 amYou've got contradictory aims. You want common sense to prevail, but you also want the entire CFS to be made to sit just because Mattster and others can't stand.
You clearly haven't noticed that the rules as they are applied at present allow the CFS to stand and other areas not to. You seem to think the letter of the law is an absolute and we can't deviate from it - but you want common sense to apply?
I don't understand why you think it's common sense for one block to be held to a higher standard than the rest of the ground, and that's even if you take out the CFS, because let's be honest, it isn't the only place people stand.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Do they persistently stand in the JHU or the family stand? I'm guessing there haven't been anything like the same number of complaints.boyyanno wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:40 amNo. I want the rules to be applied fairly. Ignore the CFS for a second. What about the fans standing in the JH upper? What about the other areas of the ground? Of course it's common sense. If it's okay for people to stand in the CFS then so be it. But how does that explain why only fans from a small and specific area of the ground have been targeted and how is that fair?
I don't understand why you think it's common sense for one block to be held to a higher standard than the rest of the ground, and that's even if you take out the CFS, because let's be honest, it isn't the only place people stand.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
No they do not. I've been in various position in that stand for every game for the last 10 years. I've only seen people stand in JHU for more than a minute or two at half time, and no other time.fidelcastro wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:45 amDo they persistently stand in the JHU or the family stand? I'm guessing there haven't been anything like the same number of complaints.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Were you in there on Tuesday? And where abouts do you sit? I was in the RH/S and at least two to three blocks on my left were stood for about 20 minutes in the second half.
People are deluded if they think only the CFS and one block in the JH lower stand.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
I’ll take a good guess that most of these complaining about fans complaining don’t even sit in the north stand blocks 1 or 2, nor would they be able to cite one example of a persons view being blocked by those stood, because those in those blocks want to stand. Would any of them get tickets for those blocks and expect to sit? No they wouldn’t. Like I say, I’m alright Jack.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
As said previously, the people behind me want to stand too and have been vocal in that assertion at games this season. That's why they (and I) bought tickets in that block.dsr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:27 amI don't know how they enforce it either. But if too many complaints are raised in public, it's as likely that the stand will ultimately be closed as it is that Mattster will be allowed to stand and block the view of the people behind. Neither is particularly likely, but it's possible. Not worth the risk.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
How does more stewarding allay any safety concerns about standing? How is it any less safe in the JHL?
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Yes I was, around column 100 on the right and row S. Nobody stood around me in any direction.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Basically it sounds like the agreement with fans in the effected blocks of the JHL to facilitate standing have been switched to the CFS without any dialogue or notice.
If there had been dialogue/notice I would have taken the opportunity at renewal to swap over to the CFS. Instead, the club waited until fans in these blocks had bought tickets (which are more expensive than tickets in the CFS) before sending an email to inform of the change of approach.
Personally I can't work out why they can't facilitate standing in the JHL as they have done previously, if there's an issue with blocking the view of corporates then don't sell tickets in the back 2 or 3 rows and cover the seats. It's not like the area is sold out to season ticket holders, so there wouldn't be anyone squeezed out.
If there had been dialogue/notice I would have taken the opportunity at renewal to swap over to the CFS. Instead, the club waited until fans in these blocks had bought tickets (which are more expensive than tickets in the CFS) before sending an email to inform of the change of approach.
Personally I can't work out why they can't facilitate standing in the JHL as they have done previously, if there's an issue with blocking the view of corporates then don't sell tickets in the back 2 or 3 rows and cover the seats. It's not like the area is sold out to season ticket holders, so there wouldn't be anyone squeezed out.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
As ever with this club, this is entirely a communication issue. What should have been a relatively minor thing that could have been solved well before the season started has now become this ridiculously overblown problem.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
No one is being targeted. The club’s statement explains the extra precautions that are taken in the CFS;
At the stadium we must be rigorous in upholding the all-seater licence, however we have an approved management plan in this stand, with increased stewarding and safety procedures in place to provide spectator safety for those standing for longer periods of the game.
And if the club are indeed lying, or using smoke and mirrors to deflect from another reason, then there still appears to exist a problem that people who have paid a lot of money to watch the game can’t see the game due to people standing. So those people, having been asked not to stand, should stop being selfish.
Where does it say in the rules on all seater stadia does it mention being allowed to stand if there are more stewards. It doesn’t say that anywhere.
With whom have they agreed this management plan - amongst themselves I guess
The Club seem to be making it up as they go along
At the stadium we must be rigorous in upholding the all-seater licence, however we have an approved management plan in this stand, with increased stewarding and safety procedures in place to provide spectator safety for those standing for longer periods of the game.
And if the club are indeed lying, or using smoke and mirrors to deflect from another reason, then there still appears to exist a problem that people who have paid a lot of money to watch the game can’t see the game due to people standing. So those people, having been asked not to stand, should stop being selfish.
Where does it say in the rules on all seater stadia does it mention being allowed to stand if there are more stewards. It doesn’t say that anywhere.
With whom have they agreed this management plan - amongst themselves I guess
The Club seem to be making it up as they go along
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
They aren't making it up. Plenty of clubs have 'agreements' that are less strict in certain stands where standing is concerned. Can't just allow it across the whole ground though.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
Which was in the JHL too up until this ‘communication’quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:09 pmThey aren't making it up. Plenty of clubs have 'agreements' that are less strict in certain stands where standing is concerned. Can't just allow it across the whole ground though.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
It was up to this season. For whatever reason they've decided to change that and, knowing that was an area where there was an understanding that people stand, it should have been communicated when STs were renewed and an alternative offered.gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 pmWhich was in the JHL too up until this ‘communication’
I don't think anyone can really complain that standing is now not allowed there - it's an all-seater stadium - but the club have handled the situation terribly.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
So a form of apology that this should have been communicated but wasn't, along with an offer to relocate should have been the way to go. Instead, they antagonise fans and ban them.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
What this boils down to is a aection of people have got away with something for so long (that they shouldn't have) that they now think they have the right to do it.
It beggars belief that people have bought season tickets in there because they think it's ok to stand in there and now they are crying it's not fair because they bought that area for that reason...as though the club have duped them.
They've duped themselves as the ticket in there is sold as a seating ticket..as per the ground regulations and conditions sold with that ticket.
Going forwards..they have been warned. If supporters in there want to continue the rebellious rules dont apply to me..or in some cases "f*** the rules I'll do what i want" attitude then they know what to expect.
It beggars belief that people have bought season tickets in there because they think it's ok to stand in there and now they are crying it's not fair because they bought that area for that reason...as though the club have duped them.
They've duped themselves as the ticket in there is sold as a seating ticket..as per the ground regulations and conditions sold with that ticket.
Going forwards..they have been warned. If supporters in there want to continue the rebellious rules dont apply to me..or in some cases "f*** the rules I'll do what i want" attitude then they know what to expect.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
We are in an all seater stadium which for the unenlightened means seating only
Reading these comments people just think they can do what they like and sod anyone else, small minded people.
Reading these comments people just think they can do what they like and sod anyone else, small minded people.
Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
I take your point fishy but the club are partly responsible for the situation by turning a blind eye for well over 10 years.The rules against persistent standing were there all along.
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Re: Standing in North Stand Lower - email from club
I’m alright jackpeter_nobles_fringe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:33 pmWe are in an all seater stadium which for the unenlightened means seating only
Reading these comments people just think they can do what they like and sod anyone else, small minded people.