First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

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Lowbankclaret
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First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:00 pm

Firstly I am really shocked at predicted energy prices going forward.

But here is the data from the first week. Which to be fair has been pretty cloudy.

Basically if I was being paid for the energy going to the grid, my electricity bill for the first week would be around Zero.
So from the octopus account you can see I used 1kwh for the 3 days of this week , when compared to last week with no solar, it’s down 96%. I currently pay 28p per KWH.
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The next screen shot shows the power generated in the first week, energy put into the grid and energy used.
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.

Based on current prices of 28p per KWH the pay back will be around 9 years.

What shocked me yesterday was when I looked at Octopus fixed energy price. It’s double for electric and more than that for gas.

Based on forecasted prices it could pay for itself in under 5 years.
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Future prices quoted are going to be a real problem for lots of people.

Just aside , today has been its best so far with 27kwh for the day.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:01 pm

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Today’s performance.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by CaptJohn » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:12 pm

Hi Lowbank.
Quick question; do you receive any payment via the FIT? I had my solar system installed in 2010 when the government screwed up with the rates of compensation and my FIT payment is currently at around 0.56p/KWH. This time of year we hardly have any utility bills as we have both PV and solar water heating systems.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Zlatan » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:18 pm

Thanks for the info Lowbankclaret - appreciate it

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:22 pm

CaptJohn wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:12 pm
Hi Lowbank.
Quick question; do you receive any payment via the FIT? I had my solar system installed in 2010 when the government screwed up with the rates of compensation and my FIT payment is currently at around 0.56p/KWH. This time of year we hardly have any utility bills as we have both PV and solar water heating systems.
No I have to wait for the installer to get the correct certs for export.
Using octopus you can chose two tariffs. 7.5p per KWh fixed.
Or a half hourly rate which is fixed by the grid. The day I looked at varied from 9p to 22p per KWH.

Cannot sign up until I get the certs , you can read about it at the link.

https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Hipper » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:38 pm

Those Octopus rates look a bit high.

I'm with Ecotricity. Rates on my July bills were:

Standing Charge/Kwh
Gas 31.29p/8.28p
Electricity 32.30p/36.09p

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:41 pm

Here’s a link to the agile price website.
I assume your getting 5.6 pence per KWH.

Prices are very high at the moment, you could get significantly more.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agi ... n-england/

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:43 pm

Hipper wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:38 pm
Those Octopus rates look a bit high.

I'm with Ecotricity. Rates on my July bills were:

Standing Charge/Kwh
Gas 31.29p/8.28p
Electricity 32.30p/36.09p
They are the current fixed rate prices if you want to switch.
My current prices are 28p electric and 7.5 p gas.
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:18 pm
Thanks for the info Lowbankclaret - appreciate it
In the current climate it’s becoming a no brainer, if you can afford it.

Companies can only do standard quotes, they are not allowed to use real data.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Inchy » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:49 pm

How much does it cost in total for the panels and installation?

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:49 pm

We have adjusted our behaviour.
Dish washe would normally be put on after tea, now it goes on in the morning.
Don’t put dishwasher, washing machine and dryer on at the same time.
If you do it will pull power from the grid as the battery cannot cope .

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Bosscat » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:53 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:49 pm
We have adjusted our behaviour.
Dish washe would normally be put on after tea, now it goes on in the morning.
Don’t put dishwasher, washing machine and dryer on at the same time.
If you do it will pull power from the grid as the battery cannot cope .
Its not rocket science is it 🙂 we have been like that now for the past 8 years ... Sun shining ... so put the DW on or the Washing Machine or the Drier 🙂 but not all at once 🙂

We don't have a battery set up though so cannot compare notes on that

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:54 pm

Inchy wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:49 pm
How much does it cost in total for the panels and installation?
So panels are £250 each.
Batteries £1300 per module.
Scaffolding and fitting about £1500.

In hindsightI should have added two more panels n the back. The more the bette IMO.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Inchy » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:56 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:54 pm
So panels are £250 each.
Batteries £1300 per module.
Scaffolding and fitting about £1500.

In hindsightI should have added two more panels n the back. The more the better IMO.


I like the idea of just forking out a lump sum and then not having to worry about the nonsense thats going on with my gas and electric bills at the moment


I also assume there must be some insurance/maintenance costs, like having a boiler?

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:21 pm

Inchy wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:56 pm
I like the idea of just forking out a lump sum and then not having to worry about the nonsense thats going on with my gas and electric bills at the moment


I also assume there must be some insurance/maintenance costs, like having a boiler?
No insurance costs.
The panels might need a clean every couple of years.

It’s all solid state stuff, not like a boiler.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:24 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:53 pm
Its not rocket science is it 🙂 we have been like that now for the past 8 years ... Sun shining ... so put the DW on or the Washing Machine or the Drier 🙂 but not all at once 🙂

We don't have a battery set up though so cannot compare notes on that
So far we have used half the battery each evening but we stay up till 12. Retired and all that.
It then powers the house on standby till the morning.

I was sceptical about the batteries, but it’s worth it in hindsight.
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:28 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:53 pm
Its not rocket science is it 🙂 we have been like that now for the past 8 years ... Sun shining ... so put the DW on or the Washing Machine or the Drier 🙂 but not all at once 🙂

We don't have a battery set up though so cannot compare notes on that
The point is, the batteries get charged for free.
Whilst being expensive to buy.

But it’s 7:30 at night now.
Battery is topping up the solar , so not drawing electric at 28p per KWH.
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Zlatan » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:34 pm

Lowbankclaret - what is there in terms of smart info from the panels and battery? I’d like to be able to monitor things accurately but most of the installers where I am don’t seem to know much about monitoring apps for phone/pc etc

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:38 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:34 pm
Lowbankclaret - what is there in terms of smart info from the panels and battery? I’d like to be able to monitor things accurately but most of the installers where I am don’t seem to know much about monitoring apps for phone/pc etc
I have posted screen shots from the app.
To be fair for 2022, it’s ****.
It’s 5 minutes behind what’s happening and it only gives the data n log in. It’s not dynamic or live.

But you can see the data it gives
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:39 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:34 pm
Lowbankclaret - what is there in terms of smart info from the panels and battery? I’d like to be able to monitor things accurately but most of the installers where I am don’t seem to know much about monitoring apps for phone/pc etc
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Tricky Trevor » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:44 pm

Thanks for the thread Lowbank. We are having them fitted in the next 5 weeks, no battery unfortunately we were warned off them them at €5k fitting. Will spent the first month taking daily readings to see what works for us but basically following your advice.
Wish we were getting yours and the other figures mentioned for buy back. Sadly nowhere near that in Ireland where buy back has only just been brought back in.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Bosscat » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:48 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:24 pm
So far we have used half the battery each evening but we stay up till 12. Retired and all that.
It then powers the house on standby till the morning.

I was sceptical about the batteries, but it’s worth it in hindsight.
We have storage heaters so would need a helluva lot of batteries 🤣

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by DCWat » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:49 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:28 pm
The point is, the batteries get charged for free.
Whilst being expensive to buy.

But it’s 7:30 at night now.
Battery is topping up the solar , so not drawing electric at 28p per KWH.

FC9A9D23-4FFE-4A27-9A40-159B4D2E5D17.png
How much internal space do the connections and batteries take up and was there much internal upheaval?

We’re in the midst of renovating most of the house (which would presumably have been the ideal time install solar) would installing after see much disruption?

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by ClaretLoup » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:59 pm

Martin Lewis Money Saver has a good section on whether it’s worthwhile installing solar panels.

One interesting thing I learnt from there is that provided you have Version 2 of the Smart Meter you can choose which Electricity company you export your Feed In Tariff to. You don’t necessarily have to export to your Energy Supplier which in our case is EDF which only gives you 1.5p per KWh which is very mingy.

I am thinking about solar panels but my understanding is that it’s really hard to find anyone to do an installation thanks to the energy crisis and removal of VAT.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:34 pm

DCWat wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:49 pm
How much internal space do the connections and batteries take up and was there much internal upheaval?

We’re in the midst of renovating most of the house (which would presumably have been the ideal time install solar) would installing after see much disruption?
There was very little internal upheaval.
Consumer unit is in the garage and you need a spare connection. I had two, so no issues.

The batteries and controller went on the gable end end in the loft. Batteries are about the size of three large car batteries.
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:06 am

ClaretLoup wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:59 pm
Martin Lewis Money Saver has a good section on whether it’s worthwhile installing solar panels.

One interesting thing I learnt from there is that provided you have Version 2 of the Smart Meter you can choose which Electricity company you export your Feed In Tariff to. You don’t necessarily have to export to your Energy Supplier which in our case is EDF which only gives you 1.5p per KWh which is very mingy.

I am thinking about solar panels but my understanding is that it’s really hard to find anyone to do an installation thanks to the energy crisis and removal of VAT.
I had no issue finding an installer currently.
SWS northwest was the only one who came out and did a site survey.
They have a 4-6 weeks waiting time.

The lads who fitted it were great, took them 3 hours.
They do about 40 houses a month, plus many more commercial properties.

Export tariffs on the variable tariff can be fairly big, see the link I posted.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:03 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:54 pm
So panels are £250 each.
Batteries £1300 per module.
Scaffolding and fitting about £1500.

In hindsightI should have added two more panels n the back. The more the bette IMO.
Hi Lowbank, I've just now taken a look at the MSE site. They have an article, updated 4-Jul-2022, which says "the price of a typical 4.2 kilowatt-peak solar panel system is about £6,500." This doesn't include batteries: SME "They aren't cheap – costing about £2,100 for a three kilowatt-hour battery."

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utili ... ar-panels/

How does the SME article compare with your set up?

Be great to cut cost of energy, but I think I'll be downsizing a lot sooner than I can achieve pay-back on solar panels based on SME article.

Making sure all my insulation is topped up and an extra jumper is my plan for this coming winter.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Shappie » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:55 pm

Don’t get a smart meter if you can avoid it

If you have an old analogue meter and generate more than you use, it will spin in reverse and the reading will drop

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by IanMcL » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:16 pm

Winter is the sad time! Virtually nothing generated, just when you need it most!

My system is in its 12th year and now pays me 67p for every unit I generate, so very happy I took the plunge. 25 year contract.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by deanothedino » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:54 pm

Shappie wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:55 pm
Don’t get a smart meter if you can avoid it

If you have an old analogue meter and generate more than you use, it will spin in reverse and the reading will drop
And then when your supplier notices, which they will, they’ll bill you for a year at an estimation.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:00 pm

Looks good lowbank, if you don’t mind saying how much does it generate per month selling back to the grid and when do you think it will have paid for itself? Thanks in advance.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:58 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:03 am
Hi Lowbank, I've just now taken a look at the MSE site. They have an article, updated 4-Jul-2022, which says "the price of a typical 4.2 kilowatt-peak solar panel system is about £6,500." This doesn't include batteries: SME "They aren't cheap – costing about £2,100 for a three kilowatt-hour battery."

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utili ... ar-panels/

How does the SME article compare with your set up?

Be great to cut cost of energy, but I think I'll be downsizing a lot sooner than I can achieve pay-back on solar panels based on SME article.

Making sure all my insulation is topped up and an extra jumper is my plan for this coming winter.
First,it might be worth asking an estate agent if the value of your house would increase and by how much by adding Solar.
I took the view that there are fixed costs, scaffolding’s , electrician , fitters etc.
So I went for more panels as the cost to add later would be expensive as the fixed costs would be incurred again.
I suspect a 4.2kwh system can be fitted a bit cheaper than £6.5k.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:02 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:00 pm
Looks good lowbank, if you don’t mind saying how much does it generate per month selling back to the grid and when do you think it will have paid for itself? Thanks in advance.
I need the certs from the company to register for payments, so currently it’s going in for free. They say it will a couple more weeks before I get that all sorted.
Based on what I pay today, 28p per KWH, it pays back in 9 years.

Predicted prices for January are double that and if that continues which I hope it does not for everyone’s sake it would be 5 years.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Shappie » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:45 am

deanothedino wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:54 pm
And then when your supplier notices, which they will, they’ll bill you for a year at an estimation.

How can they bill you for generating your own electricity?

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by deanothedino » Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:53 pm

Shappie wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:45 am
How can they bill you for generating your own electricity?
They won’t be. They’ll be billing you for the electricity you’ll have used when your panels weren’t yielding enough but haven’t been metered for because you’ve got an old meter with no backstop.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by CaptJohn » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:00 pm

Shappie wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:55 pm
Don’t get a smart meter if you can avoid it

If you have an old analogue meter and generate more than you use, it will spin in reverse and the reading will drop
I used to love watching my old analogue go backwards on a sunny day :lol:
Got away with it for about two years which was great.
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by CaptJohn » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:03 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:16 pm
Winter is the sad time! Virtually nothing generated, just when you need it most!

My system is in its 12th year and now pays me 67p for every unit I generate, so very happy I took the plunge. 25 year contract.
I'm the same as you Ian, got locked in in 2010 on a 25 year contract. Surprised the payment has gone up to 0.67p/KWH. I guess inflation has kicked in. Now on my 2nd inverter so that is another possible cost that people should take into account when considering buying a PV system.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Shappie » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:07 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:53 pm
They won’t be. They’ll be billing you for the electricity you’ll have used when your panels weren’t yielding enough but haven’t been metered for because you’ve got an old meter with no backstop.
Ah yes I see your point

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Bosscat » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:24 pm

Shappie wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:07 pm
Ah yes I see your point
When we had our panels fitted we still had an old style analogue meter... it immediately started rotating backwards when the panels were turned on ... after a week I contacted BG as we didn't want a situation where they would estimate our usage ... BG came out about 10 days later and fitted a digital meter.
Because it hadn't gone back to a reading less than the previous bill, that was the reading they used as a reference for our next bill. So we saved a bit off the next bill.

The panels are now 8 yrs old (as is the inverter) and are still generating a similar amount. They paid for themselves within 5 years so everything they produce (and save us in power we use from them, instead of drawing from the grid) is now profit.

But don't forget we got a decent feed in tarrif ... I don't know what the suppliers are offering in FIT these days
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by durhamclaret » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:57 pm

It’s my understanding that the FIT payment scheme was closed to new applicants on March 31st 2019.
Glad I got mine in during the early days.

Bosscat
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Bosscat » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:04 pm

durhamclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:57 pm
It’s my understanding that the FIT payment scheme was closed to new applicants on March 31st 2019.
Glad I got mine in during the early days.
Snap

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by deanothedino » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:05 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:24 pm
When we had our panels fitted we still had an old style analogue meter... it immediately started rotating backwards when the panels were turned on ... after a week I contacted BG as we didn't want a situation where they would estimate our usage ... BG came out about 10 days later and fitted a digital meter.
Because it hadn't gone back to a reading less than the previous bill, that was the reading they used as a reference for our next bill. So we saved a bit off the next bill.

The panels are now 8 yrs old (as is the inverter) and are still generating a similar amount. They paid for themselves within 5 years so everything they produce (and save us in power we use from them, instead of drawing from the grid) is now profit.

But don't forget we got a decent feed in tarrif ... I don't know what the suppliers are offering in FIT these days
I think your experience is normally what happens if you’re honest and flag it up to your provider as soon as you realise
This user liked this post: Bosscat

IanMcL
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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by IanMcL » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:55 pm

CaptJohn wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:03 pm
I'm the same as you Ian, got locked in in 2010 on a 25 year contract. Surprised the payment has gone up to 0.67p/KWH. I guess inflation has kicked in. Now on my 2nd inverter so that is another possible cost that people should take into account when considering buying a PV system.
Me too on that. I swapped from the 'all or nothing' system to the more modern, single panel sensors and that meant a change of inverter. Still quids in though!

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:25 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:55 pm
Me too on that. I swapped from the 'all or nothing' system to the more modern, single panel sensors and that meant a change of inverter. Still quids in though!
Are you making money from the panels Ian? Definitely considering this the way bills are going.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:39 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:25 pm
Are you making money from the panels Ian? Definitely considering this the way bills are going.
The fact your not paying for much electric means your making money. Cost avoidance.

What you need to do is know how many panels you can have fitted, I could have had two more fitted on the back and in hindsight should have done.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Bosscat » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:44 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:39 pm
The fact your not paying for much electric means your making money. Cost avoidance.

What you need to do is know how many panels you can have fitted, I could have had two more fitted on the back and in hindsight should have done.
We wondered about putting some on our rear roof but it points north east so loses the sun around 10.30 in the morning.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by IanMcL » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:45 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:25 pm
Are you making money from the panels Ian? Definitely considering this the way bills are going.
I recouped by very high initial purchase, plus my changeout costs after 7.5 years. It started by paying 43p per unit Feed In Tariff and inflation linked, over 25 year contract. Currently paying 67p per unit generated (and I get to use the electric). In my 12th year.

Income just under £2000 annually. The panels get weaker over time. Mine a a little down this year.

Nowadays, different, of course, however, consider what we are all facing in bills and how many units you will save, when the sun shines. Can be very cold. Just needs sunshine not cloud.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:49 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:45 pm
I recouped by very high initial purchase, plus my changeout costs after 7.5 years. It started by paying 43p per unit Feed In Tariff and inflation linked, over 25 year contract. Currently paying 67p per unit generated (and I get to use the electric). In my 12th year.

Income just under £2000 annually. The panels get weaker over time. Mine a a little down this year.

Nowadays, different, of course, however, consider what we are all facing in bills and how many units you will save, when the sun shines. Can be very cold. Just needs sunshine not cloud.

So I take it you get free electric all year round plus making 2k profit? that’s fantastic , are there any websites I should be looking at and can you recommend any fitters?

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:52 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:39 pm
The fact your not paying for much electric means your making money. Cost avoidance.

What you need to do is know how many panels you can have fitted, I could have had two more fitted on the back and in hindsight should have done.
The way things are going I want to be as self sufficient as possible and that means growing as much food as possible in the garden also. If I could get to even 70% self sufficiency that would be great including solar energy.

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Re: First week of solar and energy cost going forward.

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:57 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:52 pm
The way things are going I want to be as self sufficient as possible and that means growing as much food as possible in the garden also. If I could get to even 70% self sufficiency that would be great including solar energy.
We have an allotment, food is very difficult to grow.
Eggs easy with a couple of saved battery hens.

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