Early Thoughts On Muric?

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boatshed bill
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:11 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:59 am
One of those goalkeepers was still playing for us and getting picked for England when Mercer left the club.

Who else was he supposed to develop?
All of those involved in the PL squad, it was his job.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:12 pm

I suppose that we don’t need to forensically examine this incident to the extent we have. But those pictures for me confirm my initial thought which was that Muric has to shoulder the majority of the blame - incidentally the second photo is pretty much the view I have at the game. Had he put the ball to Cullen’s right foot, Cullen would have had an opportunity to turn or play the a simple pass back to Taylor, or even back to Muric.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by taio » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:21 pm

Muric's distribution has been most effective where he accurately plays the ball into wide positions which of course is also less risky thsn playing into tight spaces centrally around the edge of our own box. Work in progress and will learn the lessons.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Swizzlestick » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:31 pm

Aye, thought Vitinho was the ball at the time and those images confirm it. Harsh lesson hopefully learned. The 'good' news in a way is that teams will do the same as Blackpool did which means there should be plenty of space to exploit by being a bit cuter with our distribution.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:11 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:11 pm
All of those involved in the PL squad, it was his job.
Hennessey - already established
BPF - on loan at Sheffield Wednesday, did well with them but will probably never make a PL quality goalkeeper
Norris - will never make a PL quality goalkeeper

I reckon Billy Mercer did as well and achieved as much as any goalkeeping coach out there. He’s does deserve to dine out on what he did for us.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:27 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:11 pm
Hennessey - already established
BPF - on loan at Sheffield Wednesday, did well with them but will probably never make a PL quality goalkeeper
Norris - will never make a PL quality goalkeeper

I reckon Billy Mercer did as well and achieved as much as any goalkeeping coach out there. He’s does deserve to dine out on what he did for us.

Fair enough, you are welcome.
FWIW, I thought he was pretty good at it. I just don't go with the "bring him back" bit. He is part of our history now.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by spt_claret » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:54 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:31 pm
You've simply not got a clue what I meant and every reply proves it. With that I'm done, this board has enough tit for tat on it already.
You said you "love watching Muric and hearing the panic among fans who can't get to grips with it or see the bigger picture". Your words. Loving hearing the fans panic, either because they don't accept/like it or in your eyes just don't understand. People have repeatedly acknowledged understanding of the tactics and "bigger picture" so it's not that people only disagree because they don't understand, but you have a pattern for this I saw you in another thread on at someone for not understanding. If I think someone doesn't understand me I elaborate,reframe, rephrase. You've had ample opportunities to clarify whatever brilliant and subtle point you were trying to make. You've not you just keep saying "you've not got a clue" or "you don't need to understand" then acting like other people are the ones engaging in tit for tat when actually every time someone challenges your points or calls you on your own words you just say "you don't understand" then run away without acknowledging a word they say. I'm not wanting to get into it with you so I'll leave it there, but your utter refusal to engage in good faith is why stuff like this happens.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:13 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:54 pm
You said you "love watching Muric and hearing the panic among fans who can't get to grips with it or see the bigger picture". Your words. Loving hearing the fans panic, either because they don't accept/like it or in your eyes just don't understand. People have repeatedly acknowledged understanding of the tactics and "bigger picture" so it's not that people only disagree because they don't understand, but you have a pattern for this I saw you in another thread on at someone for not understanding. If I think someone doesn't understand me I elaborate,reframe, rephrase. You've had ample opportunities to clarify whatever brilliant and subtle point you were trying to make. You've not you just keep saying "you've not got a clue" or "you don't need to understand" then acting like other people are the ones engaging in tit for tat when actually every time someone challenges your points or calls you on your own words you just say "you don't understand" then run away without acknowledging a word they say. I'm not wanting to get into it with you so I'll leave it there, but your utter refusal to engage in good faith is why stuff like this happens.
I would suggest if that's what you think of me, my posts and my lack of explanation you've not been here very long.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:27 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:16 am
Have you even watched us play this season?

Have you seen some of our goals?

Have you seen the chances we've created, the positions from which those attack were built?

Have you seen how penetrating are some of those attacks?

Have you seen the way we dictate the tempo in games?

Have you seen how just one accurate pass from Muric can take 40% of the outfield opposition out of the game?

Have you seen how alert even the striker, never mind the midfield is to the passes played by the goalkeeper?

Have you watched the off-the-ball movement when playing from the back?

Have you noticed how the pass from the goalkeeper is vital to the system working?

We aren't doing any of that with Hennessey, because he's a poundshop Nick Pope: good shot stopper (nowhere near as good as Pope), but useless at building up attacks, thus useless to the way we play. Error for Blackpool's first aside, I'm not sure Hennessey, nor Pope for that matter, would have kept out any of the goals we've conceded this seasons.

Every single inch of the pitch corresponds to particular tactical action. A precept of our playstyle seems to be that there is always a backward pass available, because without a backward pass available we increase the risk of losing possession, and ultimately the final backward pass is Muric, so we use him, and we use him often, and we control the ball for 70%+ of the game, and we limit the time spent defending, and we maximise the time spent building attacks, and it all comes from Muric being that available final outlet, and yes, it isn't perfect, but Jesus Christ we're still in ****ing August, and this team is brand new, still putting the pieces together. Give it time.

Yeah, okay, Muric made a bad pass to Cullen on Saturday, he should have looked up before making the pass, but he gives to us far more than what he costs us, and what he costs us still can be corrected and refined with a little bit of instruction and practice.

Absolute joke to think Hennessey would be better for this team. Absolute joke to dismiss everything we're doing tactically because we conceded a bad goal. Absolute joke to jeer players for playing short. But ironically cheering Muric for going long in the early part of the second half was the biggest joke of them all. Hostile toward your own team while they're out there on the field, playing to instruction, busting their arse trying to get a result, brilliant. You absolute useless clowns. Shame on all you morons who did that.
Lots of haves there but 1 have i can confirm is Hennessy keeping a clean sheet tonight against inferior opposition but appearance wise conceding less goals, distribution wise things couldn’t have been that bad forest fielded 2nd string all over away.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by burnleymik » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:18 pm

Was really good to see the fans get behind him today in that second half. A few good saves, some good catches and some excellent distribution today.

It seems a lot of the people on the match day thread were fortunately not at the game and the ones that were, were happy to back him 100%. I genuinely believe that will do his confidence a world of good after his error first half.

I just hope the home fans do the same now on Tuesday.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:31 pm

Takes some getting used to. Completely different to anything I've ever seen playing as our keeper.
Bit like an Alien has landed and taken up residence in our area.
Pulled off a good save today when we really needed it. Cleared the danger a few times and, he can set up counter attacks with his passing.
Overall, he's been great.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Longsider » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:32 pm

He will become another of our great Goalkeeper legends.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:48 pm

Probably his best performance today, although he made the wrong decision with the penalty incident - the striker was going nowhere.

Thankfully it didn’t cost us.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by NewClaret » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:54 pm

Longsider wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:32 pm
He will become another of our great Goalkeeper legends.
I’d expect maybe the best (arguably) but will certainly sell for the most.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:55 pm

Re the penalty, he knew he was at edge of box so a handball would have been a straight red so he just continued his momentum. He pulled off some good catches and one great save. Might be nice if the JML gave him a massive cheer and round of applause next game instead of a muted clap whilst looking at Pope images on Google.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by NewClaret » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:57 pm

Just posted a lancs live link on transfer thread and saw VK’s thoughts on Muric:

A big personality and it was a good day for him.
I don't know where the tally stands but I think it is four or five goals scored from the goalkeeper. You just can't change who you are and he has to stay who he is, work hard and perform, like every one else in this team.

Describes the situation perfectly imo.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by xxmunkyennuixx » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:07 pm

Thought his decision making with passing was spot on today. He had options to loft a longer pass in behind their midfield on a diag and also a lengthier kick over the top. The unpredictability stopped them sitting on us. The mix was right.

Think the penalty situation was thick but a point blank header and some cross interceptions which are mega important with our small stature at the minute.

He seemed worried and a bit sheepish wandering over second half. There was loads of positivity for him though. People shouting his name in support. I warmed to him today. He was far more considered with the ball.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:09 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:54 pm
I’d expect maybe the best (arguably) but will certainly sell for the most.
That’s fairly disrespectful and dismissive of the superb goalkeepers we’ve had recently in Heaton and Pope.


He’s still young enough, but, if he gets even halfway towards either Heaton or Pope’s consistency and general performance levels, he’ll have done brilliantly.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Belgianclaret » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:10 pm

In brief: Muric is the real deal ! 😎👍

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by NewClaret » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:59 am

BurnleyFC wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:09 pm
That’s fairly disrespectful and dismissive of the superb goalkeepers we’ve had recently in Heaton and Pope.


He’s still young enough, but, if he gets even halfway towards either Heaton or Pope’s consistency and general performance levels, he’ll have done brilliantly.
Wasn’t intended to be disrespectful in any way; we’ve been blessed with some great keepers. I just think his age gives him a real chance of being up there with them.

And his abilities with the ball will mean he’ll likely sell for most.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by davideyresleftear » Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:07 am

So far he’s started more moves that led to goals, than he’s made errors that led to conceding. A net positive from a young player, in a young team, in a new tactical set up
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Shaggy » Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:21 am

I like Muric. Very assured on the ball and gives us another option at the back.

His goalkeeping was pretty good today apart from that mistake.

People are getting themselves into knots over Muric because of the way he plays is different from the safety first mentality.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by RVclaret » Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:50 am

His performance at West Brom has landed him in the EFL team of the week.

Hope he’s fit for Friday!
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Bosscat » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:10 pm

He certainly has improved game on game with some of his decision making, also getting to know his players infront of him too helps ... but is he a bit fragile? Maybe a rest and BPF a run in the side for a few weeks and make sure he is fit ...

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:18 pm

Definitely improving in recent games, and he's finally being given a chance to show he can make saves, but his biggest asset is his ability to start attacks by playing short or long passes, something which in our new system we certainly need.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Red Fox Rocks Socks » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:22 pm

Am I alone in worrying he’s a bit soft? How many times has a goalie come off injured, only to be fit 3 days later then pick up another injury meaning he has to be subbed off.

He’s either very unfortunate to pick up two such injuries with amazing healing powers or soft

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:27 pm

If you want to tell him he’s soft, feel free mate.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by summitclaret » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:30 pm

Their striker followed through on his ankle as Muric made a brave challenge. Would you like to tell him to his face that he is possibly soft?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Bosscat » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:35 pm

summitclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:30 pm
Their striker followed through on his ankle as Muric made a brave challenge. Would you like to tell him to his face that he is possibly soft?
I wouldn't call him soft 😏 but would certainly try and make sure he is fully fit before risking him again ... the 2 injuries are totally unrelated though ...

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Red Fox Rocks Socks » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:36 pm

summitclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:30 pm
Their striker followed through on his ankle as Muric made a brave challenge. Would you like to tell him to his face that he is possibly soft?
I’d argue that’s the job. My point is it’s unusual for a keeper to have to come off injured in this sort of incident, much less twice in a week. Mostly keepers can make it through the game.

He punched one two handed in the first half too looking away as the attackers were close by.

Makes me laugh the would you tell him to his face business 😂

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:43 pm

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by RVclaret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:49 pm

So one of the best shot stoppers in the league and best distributer in the league. Area for improvement is commanding 6 yard box but at 23 years old, 2.5m - could be our best value of money signing of the summer!

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Spiral » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:08 pm

The way we play — of which Muric indisputably is an essential component — also keeps down the number of open-play chances and goals we concede. I don't know the stats, but I imagine we're among, if not the best in the league for open-play goals conceded. The Preston goal, which obviously contributed to those stats above, was basically a slip. Not a goalkeeping error, just a slip. It happens. If he could become more aggressive when corners are dropped right in front of him, he'd be almost too good for the Championship.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by IanMcL » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:19 pm

Still dodgy.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:53 pm

Spiral wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:08 pm
The way we play — of which Muric indisputably is an essential component — also keeps down the number of open-play chances and goals we concede. I don't know the stats, but I imagine we're among, if not the best in the league for open-play goals conceded. The Preston goal, which obviously contributed to those stats above, was basically a slip. Not a goalkeeping error, just a slip. It happens. If he could become more aggressive when corners are dropped right in front of him, he'd be almost too good for the Championship.
Open play goals conceded
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:57 pm

Correction, this is open play conceded.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by NewClaret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:34 pm

Interesting stats.

He’s a top keeper, no doubt about that. His skills are beyond keeping the ball out of the net though - it’s how he contributes to our overall possession based football that’s his biggest asset. Are there any stats on passes/pass completion vs other keepers?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:42 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:34 pm
Interesting stats.

He’s a top keeper, no doubt about that. His skills are beyond keeping the ball out of the net though - it’s how he contributes to our overall possession based football that’s his biggest asset. Are there any stats on passes/pass completion vs other keepers?
Would pass completion include goal kicks?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by claretspice » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:51 pm

Notable thing from those statistics is that we're not really out of line with the divisional average for set play goals conceded. Best part of half the division have conceded the same number we have, 3. That was sort of Kompany's point when he was asked about it on Saturday.

Apart from those it's not actually easy to recall us conceding many goals from crosses into the 6 yard box - only really WBA (for which of course BPF was in goal) and Blackpool's equaliser.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by SalisburyClaret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:52 pm

Interesting stats esp. as Bachmann has often been mentioned as the outstanding keeper in the Championship so far
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by NewClaret » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:09 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:42 pm
Would pass completion include goal kicks?
🤔 no probably not if I were making the rules?

Wouldn’t imagine FK’s could for outfield players.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by It Is What It Is » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:58 pm

Looks pretty insecure and indecisive in his six yard box, especially at corners. Distribution good but too cocky at times. Would not be my choice at all if in the Prem.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:40 pm

He still got away with a couple of rash decisions on Saturday, but wasn’t at fault for the goal.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Top Claret » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:33 am

He should have done better with the Bristol goal, he just stuck to his line

On the positive side his distribution is excellent and fits into our system. If he could only improve his game inside the 6 yard box he would be a good un, until then he is Mr average

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:08 am

Still huge potential at only 23 years old. Has done well enough and some of his passing has been excellent.

Just one main criticism from me though, at virtually 2m in height I want him to come out and attack the ball more when facing corner kicks. He doesn't have to catch it but he obviously has the added advantage of being able to use his arms/hands which adds to his height and reach. Just doing this would alleviate the pressure on the defenders on those in-swinging corners and would probably put the opposition off throwing these corners in like that every time. I appreciate that opposing players will try and 'pin' Muric to his line but he's a big enough chap to deal with this and refs always protect the keepers too.

But, for the way that VK wants us to play, so far so good from Muric.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:23 am

Top Claret wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:33 am
He should have done better with the Bristol goal, he just stuck to his line

On the positive side his distribution is excellent and fits into our system. If he could only improve his game inside the 6 yard box he would be a good un, until then he is Mr average
I think the cross should have been dealt with at the near post.
We need to remember that Nick Pope was exceptional a dealing with high crosses, one of the best in the PL in recent seasons.
We have got used to seeing this, and may not see so much of it in future.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by quoonbeatz » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:41 am

The way we defend corners isn't set up for Muric to come and claim them. We don't put a man on either post and we don't have a marker for their man who is stood with our keeper. Not entirely sure why we're doing things this way, possibly to get up the pitch quicker when we clear the ball.

Stalbansclaret
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Stalbansclaret » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 am

I’m going to be in Kosovo next week and was excited to see they are at home to Cyprus on Tuesday night. Was seriously considering turning up and getting a ticket behind the nets wearing a Burnley shirt but it looks like I’m only going to be in Pristina on the Weds night sadly ☹️ My view on Muric is undecided atm…. I’m torn between loving him for his confidence on the ball and worrying that he’s a show pony who is not making the most of his natural attributes in terms of good old fashioned goalkeeping and is not determined enough to keep the ball out of the net. I’m hoping he convinces me as I have the feeling he could be great.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:08 am

He's not Nick Pope, but a very good keeper.

He's made mistakes, but like everyone else he's learning the system, and time will teach him what he can, and can't, get away with.

I would like to see him leave his line more to collect crosses, he's a big unit so it shouldn't be too hard. With our lack of height in the box it would help massively.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:55 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:41 am
The way we defend corners isn't set up for Muric to come and claim them. We don't put a man on either post and we don't have a marker for their man who is stood with our keeper. Not entirely sure why we're doing things this way, possibly to get up the pitch quicker when we clear the ball.
This, I think we are looking to counter quickly

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