Early Thoughts On Muric?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Goalposts » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:29 pm

Interesting seeing the howler Mendy made for Chelsea today,

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:30 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:22 pm
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one then RB.

I thought it was a pretty accurate pass and weight, just needed to allow it to run across him or protect it better. I think I could’ve done that :D okay, maybe not, but my point overall is that this system will need players so comfortable they can correct those situations when they occur. I just don’t think we’re quite that good.

Overall, I’d prefer our build up play in those situations started on the flanks and hopefully that will be a lesson learned for the future.
Cullen turned into trouble

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by RVclaret » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:30 pm

Goalposts wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:29 pm
Interesting seeing the howler Mendy made for Chelsea today,
Wonder if the Chelsea fans start booing and jeering him when he receives a pass from now
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:26 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:30 pm
Cullen turned into trouble
He had no choice but to turn into trouble. He wanted to move to his right and the ball was played to his left. If he hadn't turned to his left, the Blackpool man would have got the ball without any pressure at all.

What Cullen did wrong was try and shift the ball to the right when he was still moving to his left. Golden rule - if you receive a rotten pass while under pressure and facing your own goal on the edge of the area, don't try a clever way of keeping the ball. Put it out for a throw. (And then have a word with the goalkeeper for playing such a rotten pass.)
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:55 pm

I love watching Muric and hearing the panic among the fans that can't get to grips with it or see the bigger picture. Not sure a 6ft 6 Kosovan is going to give one iota of a toss what people think of him
Last edited by Vegas Claret on Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Corky » Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:56 pm

Wouldn’t it have been better if Muric had passed the ball sideways to his right to our No. 5, that THB chappie.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:01 pm

I'm not sure why we couldn't compete with forest to keep Hennessey here for this season to see what happens I guess project experimentation, probably out of our hands as most things seem to be these days.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Big Vinny K » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:09 pm

Not sure why we couldn’t compete with the same Forest who have spent £100m to £150m on players and are paying Lingard £200k a week ?

Nah I can’t understand for the life of me how Forest managed to attract Hennessey to sign. It’s certainly a mystery.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:13 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:09 pm
Not sure why we couldn’t compete with the same Forest who have spent £100m to £150m on players and are paying Lingard £200k a week ?

Nah I can’t understand for the life of me how Forest managed to attract Hennessey to sign. It’s certainly a mystery.
We keep highlighting the importance of first team football & how that's so much more preferable to money when attracting players but when people leave to sit on the bench it's all about the money.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:15 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:26 pm
He had no choice but to turn into trouble. He wanted to move to his right and the ball was played to his left. If he hadn't turned to his left, the Blackpool man would have got the ball without any pressure at all.

What Cullen did wrong was try and shift the ball to the right when he was still moving to his left. Golden rule - if you receive a rotten pass while under pressure and facing your own goal on the edge of the area, don't try a clever way of keeping the ball. Put it out for a throw. (And then have a word with the goalkeeper for playing such a rotten pass.)
That is exactly the golden rule. Couldn't he have knocked it to Harwood Bellis?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:44 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:15 pm
That is exactly the golden rule. Couldn't he have knocked it to Harwood Bellis?
No. Harwood-Bellis was on the right hand edge of the penalty area (right hand based on standing on the goalline looking out) and there were two blackpool players in the area between Cullen and H-B.

We were outnumbered on the right (or Cullen's left since he was facing his own goal). The ball should never have been played to Cullen's left. Check youtube for the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIXPH9nUNw

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by MT03ALG » Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:46 am

Blackpool's first goal was the most predictable goal of the season, in the Pep/De Gea school of goalkeeping. Muric tends to think he is Franz Beckenbauer but unfortunately he is the last man and perhaps not as good as Beckenbauer. Early award for the most generous Father Christmas of the year.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Spiral » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:16 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:01 pm
I'm not sure why we couldn't compete with forest to keep Hennessey here for this season to see what happens I guess project experimentation, probably out of our hands as most things seem to be these days.
Have you even watched us play this season?

Have you seen some of our goals?

Have you seen the chances we've created, the positions from which those attack were built?

Have you seen how penetrating are some of those attacks?

Have you seen the way we dictate the tempo in games?

Have you seen how just one accurate pass from Muric can take 40% of the outfield opposition out of the game?

Have you seen how alert even the striker, never mind the midfield is to the passes played by the goalkeeper?

Have you watched the off-the-ball movement when playing from the back?

Have you noticed how the pass from the goalkeeper is vital to the system working?

We aren't doing any of that with Hennessey, because he's a poundshop Nick Pope: good shot stopper (nowhere near as good as Pope), but useless at building up attacks, thus useless to the way we play. Error for Blackpool's first aside, I'm not sure Hennessey, nor Pope for that matter, would have kept out any of the goals we've conceded this seasons.

Every single inch of the pitch corresponds to particular tactical action. A precept of our playstyle seems to be that there is always a backward pass available, because without a backward pass available we increase the risk of losing possession, and ultimately the final backward pass is Muric, so we use him, and we use him often, and we control the ball for 70%+ of the game, and we limit the time spent defending, and we maximise the time spent building attacks, and it all comes from Muric being that available final outlet, and yes, it isn't perfect, but Jesus Christ we're still in ****ing August, and this team is brand new, still putting the pieces together. Give it time.

Yeah, okay, Muric made a bad pass to Cullen on Saturday, he should have looked up before making the pass, but he gives to us far more than what he costs us, and what he costs us still can be corrected and refined with a little bit of instruction and practice.

Absolute joke to think Hennessey would be better for this team. Absolute joke to dismiss everything we're doing tactically because we conceded a bad goal. Absolute joke to jeer players for playing short. But ironically cheering Muric for going long in the early part of the second half was the biggest joke of them all. Hostile toward your own team while they're out there on the field, playing to instruction, busting their arse trying to get a result, brilliant. You absolute useless clowns. Shame on all you morons who did that.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:26 am

Spiral wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:16 am
Have you even watched us play this season?

Have you seen some of our goals?

Have you seen the chances we've created, the positions from which those attack were built?

Have you seen how penetrating are some of those attacks?

Have you seen the way we dictate the tempo in games?

Have you seen how just one accurate pass from Muric can take 40% of the outfield opposition out of the game?

Have you seen how alert even the striker, never mind the midfield is to the passes played by the goalkeeper?

Have you watched the off-the-ball movement when playing from the back?

Have you noticed how the pass from the goalkeeper is vital to the system working?

We aren't doing any of that with Hennessey, because he's a poundshop Nick Pope: good shot stopper (nowhere near as good as Pope), but useless at building up attacks, thus useless to the way we play. Error for Blackpool's first aside, I'm not sure Hennessey, nor Pope for that matter, would have kept out any of the goals we've conceded this seasons.

Every single inch of the pitch corresponds to particular tactical action. A precept of our playstyle seems to be that there is always a backward pass available, because without a backward pass available we increase the risk of losing possession, and ultimately the final backward pass is Muric, so we use him, and we use him often, and we control the ball for 70%+ of the game, and we limit the time spent defending, and we maximise the time spent building attacks, and it all comes from Muric being that available final outlet, and yes, it isn't perfect, but Jesus Christ we're still in ****ing August, and this team is brand new, still putting the pieces together. Give it time.

Yeah, okay, Muric made a bad pass to Cullen on Saturday, he should have looked up before making the pass, but he gives to us far more than what he costs us, and what he costs us still can be corrected and refined with a little bit of instruction and practice.

Absolute joke to think Hennessey would be better for this team. Absolute joke to dismiss everything we're doing tactically because we conceded a bad goal. Absolute joke to jeer players for playing short. But ironically cheering Muric for going long in the early part of the second half was the biggest joke of them all. Hostile toward your own team while they're out there on the field, playing to instruction, busting their arse trying to get a result, brilliant. You absolute useless clowns. Shame on all you morons who did that.
Who needs Billy mercer when we've got your knowledge & input to call upon, I'm not even sure why I'm getting into this regarding a fine standing distinguished Welsh international goalkeeper with God knows how many caps & untold amounts of experience Vs the 4th keeper from man city I think Steffen was above him in the pecking order anyway 3rd or 4th makes no odds, I can't make a credible case without laughing I can't be serious about this so for me I can't debate any longer.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by burnleymik » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:38 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:26 am
Who needs Billy mercer when we've got your knowledge & input to call upon, I'm not even sure why I'm getting into this regarding a fine standing distinguished Welsh international goalkeeper with God knows how many caps & untold amounts of experience Vs the 4th keeper from man city I think Steffen was above him in the pecking order anyway 3rd or 4th makes no odds, I can't make a credible case without laughing I can't be serious about this so for me I can't debate any longer.

We don't have Billy Mercer?

If you really think Hennessey would be better for this system than Muric, then Spiral is correct.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:43 am

burnleymik wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:38 am
We don't have Billy Mercer?

If you really think Hennessey would be better for this system than Muric, then Spiral is correct.
We don't need him we have spiral :lol:

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Big Vinny K » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:16 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:13 pm
We keep highlighting the importance of first team football & how that's so much more preferable to money when attracting players but when people leave to sit on the bench it's all about the money.
Hennessey was in the bench at Palace.
He came to Burnley for one reason. To sit on our bench but get paid more for doing so.
He’s gone to Forest to sit on their bench now - again for more money than we could offer for sitting on our bench.
Let’s not over complicate things (virtually impossible for you I realise) - he’s just doing what a lot of footballers do in trying to get the best deal they can for himself. For keepers this often means understanding that they are going to a club as a no2 or even no3 but as we know in the Premier League this is a role that can still command very good wages.

And of course they are all ready and waiting if the no1 keeper gets injured or loses form and in the case of Hennessey and many of the no2s we have had recently more than capable to step in.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:36 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:43 am
We don't need him we have spiral :lol:
Don't get me wrong, I think it was a mistake to get rid of Mercer (if that was even our choice) but the new guy had a good career and was called up to the Dutch National squad - Mercer played for Rotherham.....on paper the new guy should really be better. Time will tell, but you write folk off far too quickly.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by claretandy » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:20 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:44 pm
No. Harwood-Bellis was on the right hand edge of the penalty area (right hand based on standing on the goalline looking out) and there were two blackpool players in the area between Cullen and H-B.

We were outnumbered on the right (or Cullen's left since he was facing his own goal). The ball should never have been played to Cullen's left. Check youtube for the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIXPH9nUNw
Looking again, he should have gone left to Taylor or Cork.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by alwaysaclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:55 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:44 pm
No. Harwood-Bellis was on the right hand edge of the penalty area (right hand based on standing on the goalline looking out) and there were two blackpool players in the area between Cullen and H-B.

We were outnumbered on the right (or Cullen's left since he was facing his own goal). The ball should never have been played to Cullen's left. Check youtube for the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIXPH9nUNw
Watching this maatsen was also rubbish for Blackpools second goal.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Tread Warily » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:21 am

Bring back Tom Heaton as a coach.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by clarethomer » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:30 am

Tread Warily wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:21 am
Bring back Tom Heaton as a coach.
What makes you think he would make a good coach?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dougcollins » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:34 am

I'd definitely tread warily.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:35 am

Billy Mercer?
The myth that he did so much, he did good work with Heaton and Pope without doubt but it ended there.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:42 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:35 am
Billy Mercer?
The myth that he did so much, he did good work with Heaton and Pope without doubt but it ended there.
Yes, all he did was take two cheap goalkeepers who had been relegated from the Championship and help them become England goalkeepers. You can't make a career out of that. Can you? :lol:
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:44 am

dsr wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:42 am
Yes, all he did was take two cheap goalkeepers who had been relegated from the Championship and help them become England goalkeepers. You can't make a career out of that. Can you? :lol:
Yes, he did very well with them, but you can't dine on that forever.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:59 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:44 am
Yes, he did very well with them, but you can't dine on that forever.
One of those goalkeepers was still playing for us and getting picked for England when Mercer left the club.

Who else was he supposed to develop?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dougcollins » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:08 am

I thought binning off Mercer was a mistake.

I assume they decided he was too entrenched in the Dyche camp.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by helmclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:12 am

How much experience has Mercer got in coaching this style of football?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by BurnleyFC » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 am

helmclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:12 am
How much experience has Mercer got in coaching this style of football?
Would the passing coaches not take charge of the passing side of things and the goalkeeping coaches look after the actual goalkeeping/kicking aspect?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:02 am

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 am
Would the passing coaches not take charge of the passing side of things and the goalkeeping coaches look after the actual goalkeeping/kicking aspect?
I seem to recall in one of the early club video releases VK introduces his GK coach to the players and says that the outfield players will also be learning a lot from him.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:42 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:16 am
Hennessey was in the bench at Palace.
He came to Burnley for one reason. To sit on our bench but get paid more for doing so.
He’s gone to Forest to sit on their bench now - again for more money than we could offer for sitting on our bench.
Let’s not over complicate things (virtually impossible for you I realise) - he’s just doing what a lot of footballers do in trying to get the best deal they can for himself. For keepers this often means understanding that they are going to a club as a no2 or even no3 but as we know in the Premier League this is a role that can still command very good wages.

And of course they are all ready and waiting if the no1 keeper gets injured or loses form and in the case of Hennessey and many of the no2s we have had recently more than capable to step in.
Effectively Hennessey left palace because he was pushed further down the pecking order with butlands arrival thus having more chance of playing here, not that he was going to displace pope but it was always on the cards pope would be leaving at some point with his ability & our precarious position, money wasn't the chief motivator for Hennessey based on that attitude, Hennessey wanted to play especially being in the Wales setup, muric was signed I think a week or so after Hennessey left & had Hennessey stayed I don't even think we would have even seen muric with BPF & Norris in the background.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by JTClaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:52 pm

He was cheered for hoofing the ball back to Blackpool - actually cheered for giving away possession.
To me that showed that not only does the team need to gel and get used to one another, but we as fans also need to learn what we do and how it works.

We will make mistakes, the style of play pretty much guarantees it. He was definitely partly to blame for the first, but IMO not the second and third.
And making nervous noises when the ball goes back to him, despite how often he has the ball is madness - Why put pressure on your own keeper?

As for saves. I'm not convinced, but because of the possession play that he starts, he doesn't need to make many. If he gets better, maybe shows he has more agility, I've certainly not got a problem.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by spt_claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:55 pm
I love watching Muric and hearing the panic among the fans that can't get to grips with it or see the bigger picture. Not sure a 6ft 6 Kosovan is going to give one iota of a toss what people think of him
Highlighting this bit as that's the weirdest take I've heard in a while. You make it sound like you enjoy the fact that fellow Burnley fans don't like this approach . Seems oddly spiteful, reminiscent of people who were fine with relegation provided Dyche left. Nice little dig too implying that anybody who doesn't enjoy it is just too stupid and hasn't watched enough football. I can understand enjoying opposition fans being annoyed by our style, but not our own.
Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:36 am
Don't get me wrong, I think it was a mistake to get rid of Mercer (if that was even our choice) but the new guy had a good career and was called up to the Dutch National squad - Mercer played for Rotherham.....on paper the new guy should really be better. Time will tell, but you write folk off far too quickly.
Nope. I can't understand how the myth of "good player means good manager" continues. For every Guardiola, Ancelotti, Zidane or Cruyff there's a Maradona, Shearer, Charlton, Gascgoine, Matthaus,Van Basten, Stoichkov, or even just the Gullits and Keanes who were far more middling. Then on the other side of the coin you have the likes of Mourinho,Ferguson, Wenger, Tuchel, Klopp who weren't much as players but hugely successful managers or again the likes of Moyes, Hodgson or *gasp* Dyche, whose managerial achievements exceeded their playing achievements. Back when I was at uni I did a module on sport psychology and a debate then which persists today was whether being a great player can actually HINDER coaching,much like being particularly gifted at something can make it hard to teach others,or the high intelligence paradox where highly intelligent people struggle communicating or explaining concepts to people less intelligent. When something comes easy to you it can be hard to convey it to someone who struggles more,but someone who did find it difficult to improve can make a better tutor as they've learned multiple ways to develop.
You judge a coach on their coaching not on their playing. Mercer has a tremendous track record, which is there to see on paper. Could the new guy be great, and better than Mercer in time? Sure he might. But "he was an international so on paper will be a better coach" is totally flawed.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:13 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm
Highlighting this bit as that's the weirdest take I've heard in a while. You make it sound like you enjoy the fact that fellow Burnley fans don't like this approach . Seems oddly spiteful, reminiscent of people who were fine with relegation provided Dyche left. Nice little dig too implying that anybody who doesn't enjoy it is just too stupid and hasn't watched enough football. I can understand enjoying opposition fans being annoyed by our style, but not our own.



Nope. I can't understand how the myth of "good player means good manager" continues. For every Guardiola, Ancelotti, Zidane or Cruyff there's a Maradona, Shearer, Charlton, Gascgoine, Matthaus,Van Basten, Stoichkov, or even just the Gullits and Keanes who were far more middling. Then on the other side of the coin you have the likes of Mourinho,Ferguson, Wenger, Tuchel, Klopp who weren't much as players but hugely successful managers or again the likes of Moyes, Hodgson or *gasp* Dyche, whose managerial achievements exceeded their playing achievements. Back when I was at uni I did a module on sport psychology and a debate then which persists today was whether being a great player can actually HINDER coaching,much like being particularly gifted at something can make it hard to teach others,or the high intelligence paradox where highly intelligent people struggle communicating or explaining concepts to people less intelligent. When something comes easy to you it can be hard to convey it to someone who struggles more,but someone who did find it difficult to improve can make a better tutor as they've learned multiple ways to develop.
You judge a coach on their coaching not on their playing. Mercer has a tremendous track record, which is there to see on paper. Could the new guy be great, and better than Mercer in time? Sure he might. But "he was an international so on paper will be a better coach" is totally flawed.
you don't need to understand it nor agree with it

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by spt_claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:13 pm
you don't need to understand it nor agree with it
So it is just enjoying spiting Burnley fans who disagree?

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:22 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:20 pm
So it is just enjoying spiting Burnley fans who disagree?
that's not what it is at all, it's pointing a few things out. Go and look up the definition of spiteful

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by blake's wand » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:24 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:44 pm
No. Harwood-Bellis was on the right hand edge of the penalty area (right hand based on standing on the goalline looking out) and there were two blackpool players in the area between Cullen and H-B.

We were outnumbered on the right (or Cullen's left since he was facing his own goal). The ball should never have been played to Cullen's left. Check youtube for the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIXPH9nUNw
I think Cullen was the only option on if we are excluding going long. Left side was cut-off by their forward (see 0.33 on the youtube link) and right side had 2 men covering.

It was just a bad ball (to the left of Cullen) and we were punished. We'll see a lot more of them this season, but so did Arsenal in the first year under Arteta.

I'd be very interested to know if Kompany would have expected us to go long in this situation or pass at all cost

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by spt_claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:22 pm
that's not what it is at all, it's pointing a few things out. Go and look up the definition of spiteful
You said you enjoy seeing how Burnley fans don't like this approach and complain. Enjoying someone's discomfort seems pretty spiteful.
And you're not pointing out nearly as much as you think. Not everyone is disagreeing with the approach for the sake of it, not everyone is a method purist, no one approach solves football.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:31 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:20 pm
You said you enjoy seeing how Burnley fans don't like this approach and complain. Enjoying someone's discomfort seems pretty spiteful.
And you're not pointing out nearly as much as you think. Not everyone is disagreeing with the approach for the sake of it, not everyone is a method purist, no one approach solves football.
You've simply not got a clue what I meant and every reply proves it. With that I'm done, this board has enough tit for tat on it already.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Belgianclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:08 pm

For me Muric not to blame for first goal or any of the goals.

If you look at repeat, firstly Roberts plays the ball back to him. Then Cullen specifically signals Muric to play the ball to him, which he did straight in his feet. Cullen controlled the ball wrongly and got robbed.

Of course we should learn to cut out the fancy stuff when leading in a game, of course its a risk to collect the ball so deep as Cullen did (but exactly the same error he made in his first appearance during the friendly)

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by taio » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:41 pm

Apologies if already posted somewhere but below is an extract from an article titled 'Burnley’s naivety a reminder that Vincent Kompany’s team is a work in progress' by the Athletic which I thought was good and correctly identified that both Muric and Cullen were at fault for the first goal conceded:

For 20 minutes, this was exactly what Burnley supporters had been waiting for: intensity, pressing, creativity and two wonderfully crafted goals scored by Josh Brownhill and Nathan Tella.

The perfect start.

Then Arijanet Muric tried a pass to Josh Cullen on the edge of his own box and they gifted Blackpool a route back into the game.

From Burnley smelling blood, the feel of the game changed. It was the first sign of naivety from Vincent Kompany’s side during the 90 minutes; that trait ultimately cost them three points.

Burnley regrouped and restored their two-goal advantage through full debutant Tella, who was one of the standout performers in the opening 45 minutes.

It was what a Burnley performance is expected to look like under Kompany. Score first, control the game and look to stretch the lead while continuing to dictate the tempo.

Finally, after three frustrating results, it seemed everything had clicked… it turns out, not quite.

There is no hiding the fact Burnley are a work in progress. There are plenty of positive signs but there are also a few problems. Growing pains, frustrations, setbacks and harsh lessons were always to be expected.

They certainly learned the risks of playing out from the back the hard way. It was a combination of poor decision-making from Muric and Cullen that led to Blackpool’s opener.

With Burnley retaining possession at the back, Blackpool pressed aggressively.

When Muric receives possession from Connor Roberts, he attempts a risky pass into Cullen instead of going long.

Muric had a variety of options but his pass was between Cullen and Theo Corbeanu, allowing the Blackpool man to close Cullen down quickly.

The midfielder’s touch, while trying to turn out of trouble, is poor and the Blackpool attacker is ready for it, dispossessing the Ireland international before scoring.

It was not the only time Burnley played themselves into trouble.

On 37 minutes, following a Cruyff turn, Muric’s pass to Charlie Taylor just outside the box saw him closed down quickly by two opponents and he was subsequently dispossessed. Burnley were fortunate Callum Connolly handled the pullback.

On 42 minutes, Muric received a poor backpass and could only steer it into the path of a Blackpool player and five minutes later Cullen sold Taylor short with a pass on the edge of Burnley’s area.

The nervous energy from the crowd was palpable. There were groans when passes were played back to the goalkeeper and you could sense that tension was being transmitted to the players.

Audible frustration will not help. This is the way Kompany wants his side to play, building attacks from the back and plenty have begun at the feet of Muric. It is a risk-and-reward strategy, drawing opponents in to then carve them open. The style is here to stay.

Muric was not the only one to blame in those situations and had it not been for a handful of excellent saves from the summer signing in the second half, Burnley may have walked away with nothing.
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:48 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:41 pm
Apologies if already posted somewhere but below is an extract from an article titled 'Burnley’s naivety a reminder that Vincent Kompany’s team is a work in progress' by the Athletic which I thought was good and correctly identified that both Muric and Cullen were at fault for the first goal conceded:
Assume that's Andy Jones, spot on - I think he's a decent journo

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by taio » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:49 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:48 pm
Assume that's Andy Jones, spot on - I think he's a decent journo
Yes I think it was Andy Jones.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by claretspice » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:57 pm

blake's wand wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:24 pm
I think Cullen was the only option on if we are excluding going long. Left side was cut-off by their forward (see 0.33 on the youtube link) and right side had 2 men covering.

It was just a bad ball (to the left of Cullen) and we were punished. We'll see a lot more of them this season, but so did Arsenal in the first year under Arteta.

I'd be very interested to know if Kompany would have expected us to go long in this situation or pass at all cost
The thing that shows it best on the youtube highlighrs is the replay from behind the goal. The main camera does not show the position of Vitinho. That's because he was in loads of space right on the touchline, near half way. Muric is supposed to have (and I think does have) the ability to play that sort of pass accurately, and it was much lower tariff option.

That's not a long ball - it's a longer pass to avoid the press. In the event he played the ball to Cullens left, half way between Cullen and thr pressing Blackpool player.

Cullen may have asked for the ball, but I don't think we wanted it exactly where it landed, and not on his left foot. If he did, he should have overruled him and gone longer to Vitinho.

Kompany basically said this post game. Its not a criticism of Muric per se but part of his development involves acknowledging he got that one wrong.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:57 pm

These images were part of the article
Attachments
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:59 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:08 pm
For me Muric not to blame for first goal or any of the goals.

If you look at repeat, firstly Roberts plays the ball back to him. Then Cullen specifically signals Muric to play the ball to him, which he did straight in his feet. Cullen controlled the ball wrongly and got robbed.

Of course we should learn to cut out the fancy stuff when leading in a game, of course its a risk to collect the ball so deep as Cullen did (but exactly the same error he made in his first appearance during the friendly)
Cullen and the Blackpool man were 10 yards apart when Muric played the pass, and Muric played the pass between the two of them. 4 yards away from Cullen and 6 yards away from the Blackpool man. (Distances can be judged from the pattern of the grass cutting.)

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by claretspice » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:06 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:57 pm
These images were part of the article
Yes, exactly. Just look at the position of Vitinho. Play to him and either he's unmarked (and can take it down or set back to Roberts) or the player close to Brownhill has to leave him free so one touch from Vitinho and Brownhill is away. That's beating the press. It's not a hard pass for a ball playing goalkeeper.

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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:08 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:49 pm
Yes I think it was Andy Jones.
cheers for posting it
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Re: Early Thoughts On Muric?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:09 pm

claretspice wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:57 pm
.

Cullen may have asked for the ball, but I don't think we wanted it exactly where it landed, and not on his left foot. If he did, he should have overruled him and gone longer to Vitinho.
I think he calls for it and begins to move towards Muric.
For me the pass to Cullen was slightly under hit.
But it's the way we play now.
I know what VK said, but I doubt he'd have mentioned it had the move been successful.

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