Nick Pope

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:11 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:09 pm
Could you break down the 70m for me please?
He's using the Wood transfer in his figure I suspect, it tallies up to that if he is, other wise he's about £25 million out.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:12 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:09 pm
Could you break down the 70m for me please?
Good point I was thinking 90m but you can deduct stoke & Lyons leftovers.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by KRBFC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:15 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:10 pm
Nobody gave a toss when we went up with a negative net spend under Dyche the first time :lol:
Where the money is going is the issue, we've always been a sell to survive club in my eyes, now we're selling to pay someone elses unnecessary debts.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by KRBFC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:16 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:09 pm
Could you break down the 70m for me please?
Collins 20.5
Pope 10-15
Cornet 17.5
Mcneil 20

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:20 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:15 pm
Where the money is going is the issue, we've always been a sell to survive club in my eyes, now we're selling to pay someone elses unnecessary debts.
Build a bridge, get over it, or continue to sit there regurgitating it every chance you get, whichever makes you happy.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jimscho » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:42 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:16 pm
Collins 20.5
Pope 10-15
Cornet 17.5
Mcneil 20
Lets assume Pope is £10m as that is the figure people are getting their knickers in a twist over.That is 68m.okay wont call you a liar over £2m.Now how much do we owe Stoke for Collins and how much do we owe on Cornet.lets be generous and say £20m.That brings the £68m down to £48m.Doesn’t look quite as healthy now does it?Assuming they went on 4 year contracts we would receive probably a quarter of the £68m now and the rest over the length of the contracts.Thats £17m now.Dosnt look like a lot does it.When you quote we have received £70m in sales people will be wondering where its gone.As I have just demonstrated we havent received £70m,so stop quoting these inflated figures.My £17 m figure may be on the low side as we may have received more up front on say Cornet.I dont know and neither do others.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by KRBFC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:15 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:42 pm
Lets assume Pope is £10m as that is the figure people are getting their knickers in a twist over.That is 68m.okay wont call you a liar over £2m.Now how much do we owe Stoke for Collins and how much do we owe on Cornet.lets be generous and say £20m.That brings the £68m down to £48m.Doesn’t look quite as healthy now does it?Assuming they went on 4 year contracts we would receive probably a quarter of the £68m now and the rest over the length of the contracts.Thats £17m now.Dosnt look like a lot does it.When you quote we have received £70m in sales people will be wondering where its gone.As I have just demonstrated we havent received £70m,so stop quoting these inflated figures.My £17 m figure may be on the low side as we may have received more up front on say Cornet.I dont know and neither do others.
Not sure where you got £17m from, I can assure you the figure is closer to £70m, I think we're all aware those figures are paid in multiple instalments, same as the figures we spend are. When teams sign players and intend to pay over the 2 years, that money is budgeted for, figures owed to Stoke/Lyon would've been budgeted for prior to selling them.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jimscho » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Not sure where you got £17m from, I can assure you the figure is closer to £70m, I think we're all aware those figures are paid in multiple instalments, same as the figures we spend are. When teams sign players and intend to pay over the 2 years, that money is budgeted for, figures owed to Stoke/Lyon would've been budgeted for prior to selling them.
Perhaps I didnt make it clear in my post.If the players got 4 year contracts we would receive the £68m over 4 years,ie 17m each year.Stop making it appear we have received £70m we haven’t.I know all about budgeting etc I used to be a Bank Manager for Barclays Bank.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:25 pm

It's funny how when defending pope's transfer fee £10mil is contested & inflated to something higher but when trying to ascertain the overall transfers fees being paid in £10mil is stuck to as the figure, it's either £10 mil or it isn't, it seems to change depending on the argument.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by taio » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:28 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:22 pm
Perhaps I didnt make it clear in my post.If the players got 4 year contracts we would receive the £68m over 4 years,ie 17m each year.Stop making it appear we have received £70m we haven’t.I know all about budgeting etc I used to be a Bank Manager for Barclays Bank.
Widely reported that we received £17.5m for Cornet in one payment. Many reports of clubs wanting to stage payments would cost them considerably more. I would suggest it will be nearer double the figure you've quoted.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:35 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:22 pm
Perhaps I didnt make it clear in my post.If the players got 4 year contracts we would receive the £68m over 4 years,ie 17m each year.Stop making it appear we have received £70m we haven’t.I know all about budgeting etc I used to be a Bank Manager for Barclays Bank.
And we have factored those sales to get the cash in anyway, and many of our new signings will have payments spread over the four or so years as well.

It's simpler and more useful to follow the accounting treatment rather than trying to follow the cash. We've taken approx 70m, and spent approx however much it is - £16m? on players. I accept that the early repayment of player purchase creditors is relevant.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:39 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:35 pm
And we have factored those sales to get the cash in anyway, and many of our new signings will have payments spread over the four or so years as well.

It's simpler and more useful to follow the accounting treatment rather than trying to follow the cash. We've taken approx 70m, and spent approx however much it is - £16m? on players. I accept that the early repayment of player purchase creditors is relevant.
Also there’s %’s owed to Charlton, Stoke and Lyon of the profits.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:41 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:39 pm
Also there’s %’s owed to Charlton, Stoke and Lyon of the profits.
Yes, take those into account as well. It's the staged payments bit that's the red herring.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jimscho » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:42 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:28 pm
Widely reported that we received £17.5m for Cornet in one payment. Many reports of clubs wanting to stage payments would cost them considerably more. I would suggest it will be nearer double the figure you've quoted.
If you read my post I did say I didnt know how much we received up front for Cornet.It may be widely reported but no one knows for sure.If we received all up front it is still only about £30 m received not the £70m that was quoted and keeps being quoted.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jimscho » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:53 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:35 pm
And we have factored those sales to get the cash in anyway, and many of our new signings will have payments spread over the four or so years as well.

It's simpler and more useful to follow the accounting treatment rather than trying to follow the cash. We've taken approx 70m, and spent approx however much it is - £16m? on players. I accept that the early repayment of player purchase creditors is relevant.
We haven’t taken approx £70m.That is my whole point.When posters are quoting these figures,of which we have only received a percentage,other posters are thinking where is all this money going.We have not received £70m into BFC’s bank accont.Only a percentage is paid up front and the rest over a number of years as with our purchases.I just want people to stop implying we have received all this money when we haven’t.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by KRBFC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:53 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:42 pm
If you read my post I did say I didnt know how much we received up front for Cornet.It may be widely reported but no one knows for sure.If we received all up front it is still only about £30 m received not the £70m that was quoted and keeps being quoted.
Exactly the reason why I quoted the fees received as the ones reported, instead of trying to be some magician smart arse and start halving figures because we may not have received the full fee now. Stick to the reported fees, 20.5m for Collins, 10m for Pope, 17.5m for Cornet. It's way easier than assuming and making up potential scenarios.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Jimscho » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:56 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:53 pm
Exactly the reason why I quoted the fees received as the ones reported, instead of trying to be some magician smart arse and start halving figures because we may not have received the full fee now. Stick to the reported fees, 20.5m for Collins, 10m for Pope, 17.5m for Cornet. It's way easier than assuming and making up potential scenarios.
I give up its like banging my head against a brick wall.I have much better things to do.If you want to believe we have received £70m carry on.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by KRBFC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:59 pm

Jimscho wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:56 pm
I give up its like banging my head against a brick wall.I have much better things to do.
I understand your point about some transfer fees are paid in instalments, like the Wood one was (although we received the full amount instantly via bank loan). I'm not sure it makes much sense to start assuming West Ham are paying for Cornet that way too when trying to come to an accurate figure. Especially given the way we received the full Wood amount instantly by taking out a bank loan, we'd likely do that for others.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Big Vinny K » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:00 pm

As Chester Perry pointed out the fee for Pope with the Charlton sell on clause and the financing costs is going to be probably nearer to £7m.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:02 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:00 pm
As Chester Perry pointed out the fee for Pope with the Charlton sell on clause and the financing costs is going to be probably nearer to £7m.
And the profit received for Collins will be around 9m after we’ve paid Stoke

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Big Vinny K » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:30 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:02 pm
And the profit received for Collins will be around 9m after we’ve paid Stoke
Which is nearly twice as much as the “profit” from Nick Pope since we paid nearly £2m from him at the outset - so leaves around £5m profit. Irrelevant from an accounting perspective though given how long ago we purchased Pope whereas Collins value will not have been amortised yet given it was only 12 month ago. I doubt we were anywhere finished paying for Collins so we are probably be going to be looking at a figure very different to £9 profit on his sale when we see the year end accounts.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by NRC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:27 pm

i'm lost on the point of debate here. What we've received now is surely only relevant on forums like this, and even then I'm not sure I get the point

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Big Vinny K » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:32 pm

I’d maybe leave it then !

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