Graeme Souness - Men's football

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
claretburns
Posts: 4878
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 pm
Been Liked: 848 times
Has Liked: 334 times
Location: Halifax

Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by claretburns » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:34 pm

Graeme Souness drawing some criticism online for comments made on Sky after the Chelsea v Tottenham game yesterday, whether you agree with his comments or not I do respect the fact that he hasn't backed down like many people have done in the past and stood by his words - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62548431

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:40 pm

Are the critics saying that Chelsea v Tottenham yesterday was actually a game for men and women, and it's only by the merest fluke that there were no women playing?

It's pretty clear Souness was talking specifically about yesterday's game which literally was a man's game, only for men. What he's saying is that figuratively it was a man's game too of the type of game he might have played in his time. Some people have just seen half a chance to get annoyed and have taken it with both feet.
These 9 users liked this post: Rumpelstiltskin Leisure Dark Cloud tiger76 Stayingup Quicknick claretgimmer Beaconsfield Claret AlargeClaret

Burnley1989
Posts: 7346
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2275 times
Has Liked: 2154 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Burnley1989 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:41 pm

Obviously worded badly but everyone knows the context he was trying to make his point in.
Hopefully it blows over

daveisaclaret
Posts: 2058
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
Been Liked: 1129 times
Has Liked: 94 times
Location: your mum

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by daveisaclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:43 pm

I don't think there's any problem with what he said but do find it quite funny it was about ten minutes after someone should have been sent off for hair pulling
These 5 users liked this post: IanMcL GodIsADeeJay81 basil6345789 Quicknick BertiesBeehole

BigChaCha
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:45 pm
Been Liked: 253 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by BigChaCha » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:46 pm

I am amazed that he has managed to survive this long, to be honest as he is exactly the demographic that the BBC and Sky especially have declared genocide against!...

I like him... He is not the brightest in regards to punditry but I believe in his authenticity and he was a damn good player and as hard as nails...

He is wrong though... Even the men's game is not a 'man's game' anymore... Not at Premier League level anyway and if he had the IQ, he would have learnt what to do to keep in a job in these strange times... Unless he just does not care, which could be the case.

IanMcL
Posts: 30129
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8654 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by IanMcL » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:07 pm

claretburns wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:34 pm
Graeme Souness drawing some criticism online for comments made on Sky after the Chelsea v Tottenham game yesterday, whether you agree with his comments or not I do respect the fact that he hasn't backed down like many people have done in the past and stood by his words - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62548431
I am with him all the way.
These 4 users liked this post: Rumpelstiltskin Quicknick claretgimmer aclaretinstevenage

claptrappers_union
Posts: 5758
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 1747 times
Has Liked: 345 times
Location: The Banana Stand

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:17 pm

Remember, Twitter isn't a real place
These 2 users liked this post: LeadBelly BleedingClaret

Dark Cloud
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:03 am
Been Liked: 1981 times
Has Liked: 3299 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:18 pm

He was talking specifically about yesterday's game. A game between 2 teams of men. It's absolutely clear what he's talking about, unless of course someone listening is intent on deliberately mis interpreting it to suit their agenda.
These 6 users liked this post: Rumpelstiltskin LeadBelly tiger76 Quicknick claretgimmer Beaconsfield Claret

Falcon
Posts: 3210
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:40 pm
Been Liked: 892 times
Has Liked: 1161 times
Location: Proudsville

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Falcon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:18 pm

I think everyone understands what he was trying to say, and being honest, most fans would agree with what he meant in his head. He's just worded it carelessly.

Clever thing to do is apologise for his unfortunate misspeak and use the platform to explain the intended meaning, then move on. Doubling down on it just makes the story go on and on.

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3771
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1828 times
Has Liked: 2613 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:25 pm

Falcon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone understands what he was trying to say, and being honest, most fans would agree with what he meant in his head. He's just worded it carelessly.

Clever thing to do is apologise for his unfortunate misspeak and use the platform to explain the intended meaning, then move on. Doubling down on it just makes the story go on and on.
Why apologise for using the opportunity of free speech to say exactly what you think.
Oh I did forget that we no longer have free speech, no longer have common sense, no longer have many people who are able to think for themselves etc., etc. ad nauseam.
I am now waiting for someone to claim that the government must do something about it and t hat Souness should be hung, drawn and quartered.
These 4 users liked this post: Quicknick Rumpelstiltskin claretgimmer aclaretinstevenage

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:25 pm

If female footballers are so easily offended, they need to man up and grow a pair.
These 9 users liked this post: LeadBelly Shappie Top Claret Quicknick Dark Cloud yosserhughes Rumpelstiltskin fatboy47 claretgimmer

claretandy
Posts: 4751
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 953 times
Has Liked: 238 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by claretandy » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:28 pm

Just imagine being so easily offended by a man, who played mens football, describing men, playing mens football :lol:
These 3 users liked this post: Vegas Claret Juan Tanamera aclaretinstevenage

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10843
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5521 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:46 pm

Falcon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone understands what he was trying to say, and being honest, most fans would agree with what he meant in his head. He's just worded it carelessly.

Clever thing to do is apologise for his unfortunate misspeak and use the platform to explain the intended meaning, then move on. Doubling down on it just makes the story go on and on.
He explained his comments this morning on Talkshite.

Falcon
Posts: 3210
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:40 pm
Been Liked: 892 times
Has Liked: 1161 times
Location: Proudsville

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Falcon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:25 pm
Why apologise for using the opportunity of free speech to say exactly what you think.
Oh I did forget that we no longer have free speech, no longer have common sense, no longer have many people who are able to think for themselves etc., etc. ad nauseam.
I am now waiting for someone to claim that the government must do something about it and t hat Souness should be hung, drawn and quartered.

Oh dear. Lot of things on my bingo card ticked off here. You missed 'cancel culture' and 'wokism' by the way.

Freedom of speech =/= freedom of consequence.

If you say something that makes you look like a knob, someone can call you a knob, even if you don't agree it makes you look like a knob.

Bordeauxclaret
Posts: 10273
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
Been Liked: 3327 times
Has Liked: 1942 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:11 pm

This user liked this post: LeadBelly

NRC
Posts: 4288
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:58 pm
Been Liked: 908 times
Has Liked: 107 times
Location: Containment Area for Relocated Yankees, NC

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by NRC » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:22 pm

what's the gender-neutral equivalency, and let's not say "person's game" because the meaning is one of toughness, which was Souness's intent. I guess you take it non-gender and just say it's a tough game....

And if we had witnessed an equivalent game in the women's league, how should a pundit have described it? Not "women's game" as that doesn't carry the intonation?

Serious and non-serious answers please

Wembley09
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:43 pm
Been Liked: 75 times
Has Liked: 114 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Wembley09 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:35 pm

I said to my other half at the time when he said it.. 'that's abit sexist'

Tonque in cheek of course. The woman sat next to him was even smiling after he said it, she knew how he meant it. Just do gooders taking things out of context again.

Still waiting for the Earth to be literally wrapped in bubble wrap.

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3771
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1828 times
Has Liked: 2613 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:42 pm

Falcon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm
Oh dear. Lot of things on my bingo card ticked off here. You missed 'cancel culture' and 'wokism' by the way.

Freedom of speech =/= freedom of consequence.

If you say something that makes you look like a knob, someone can call you a knob, even if you don't agree it makes you look like a knob.
If I knew or even cared about 'cancel culture' and 'wokism' I may even start to worry about looking like a knob, however, you are abviously concerned about such things so rock on. I will just get on and continue with the life I have lived for almost 76 years, no matter who gets upset.
I shall also continue with the work I carry out to help Veterans and families because they can handle the way I look at life.

Anyone can call me what they like, it is water of a duck's back and will never change my thinking or telling it the way that it is. PC is dead in our house.
These 6 users liked this post: Quicknick Rumpelstiltskin claretgimmer LeadBelly aclaretinstevenage Beaconsfield Claret

Bordeauxclaret
Posts: 10273
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
Been Liked: 3327 times
Has Liked: 1942 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:03 pm

Image
These 2 users liked this post: evensteadiereddie Greenmile

Sheff_bfc
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:14 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Sheff_bfc » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:11 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:25 pm
If female footballers are so easily offended, they need to man up and grow a pair.
Quality. Sat on my sun bed in Spain and spat my beer out laughing at that one. 😄
This user liked this post: Colburn_Claret

Hipper
Posts: 5682
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 pm
Been Liked: 1175 times
Has Liked: 918 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Hipper » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:57 am

Falcon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm
Oh dear. Lot of things on my bingo card ticked off here. You missed 'cancel culture' and 'wokism' by the way.

Freedom of speech =/= freedom of consequence.

If you say something that makes you look like a knob, someone can call you a knob, even if you don't agree it makes you look like a knob.
It doesn't make him look a knob. He may of course look like one for people like you who don't (or don't want to) understand what he was saying.

He was obviously referring to 'men' as in 'men or boys', not 'men or women'.

In any case, I didn't think the match was rougher then usual and certainly not the Souness era when, to misquote John Fashanu, you could 'break an opponents leg but that's OK as long as you do it fairly'. It's great that we've moved on from times when the likes of Pele were literally kicked out of the 66 Word Cup. We now have top class football pitches, highly technical, pacy and strong players, which is how I've always wanted football to be - skill should prevail. The downside is that as players can't hack each down anymore they have to resort to the more cycnical stuff like shirt pulling, the all-in wrestling that goes on at corners, and falling over at the slightest touch.

Although I didn't see much of the women's Euros, what I did see, mostly, was a more innocent approach where they just tried to play football. Some teams did already have a bit of the dark arts about them but generally it was refreshing to see. I fear though as more money comes into the women's game it will end up as the men's have.

Anyway the main issue at the Chelsea - Spurs game was the childish behaviour of the managers, particularly Tuchel who, when Chelsea scored the second goal, ran passed the Spurs dug out and down the side of the pitch to celebrate. What a prat.

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6889
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1468 times
Has Liked: 1839 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:30 am

Agreed there are people who deliberately stir the sxxx .Souness said what he felt and got panned for it.
This user liked this post: aclaretinstevenage

Jamesy
Posts: 2533
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm
Been Liked: 780 times
Has Liked: 518 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jamesy » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:37 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:25 pm
Why apologise for using the opportunity of free speech to say exactly what you think.
Oh I did forget that we no longer have free speech, no longer have common sense, no longer have many people who are able to think for themselves etc., etc. ad nauseam.
I am now waiting for someone to claim that the government must do something about it and t hat Souness should be hung, drawn and quartered.
Sadly we don’t have free speech anymore in this country. And we have too many people looking to jump on people in the media who say things which may upset the ever growing number of “easily offended” people.
He will end up having to issue a grovelling apology in order to keep his job. Mind you, he is at the age now and has surely amassed enough money to be able to tell them to shove it.
These 2 users liked this post: houseboy Ashingtonclaret46

jojomk1
Posts: 4735
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 836 times
Has Liked: 574 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by jojomk1 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:47 am

And we no longer have nominations for "man of the match" - now "player of the match"
And cricket no longer played by "batsmen"

The world has gone totally mad

Snowflakes rule ok :D

Big Vinny K
Posts: 2429
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Been Liked: 1009 times
Has Liked: 275 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:52 am

These debates always bring out the “free speech” argument.
We don’t have “free” speech - you cannot just say anything without potential repercussions - slander laws, racism, incitement of hate etc.

But I do not think there was anything wrong with what Souness said - it was obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense what he was trying to express…..problem is that common sense is a fast declining trait in society these days.

welsbyswife
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:50 pm
Been Liked: 494 times
Has Liked: 280 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by welsbyswife » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am

Unsurprising that the article in the OP was from the BBC. They can't wait to jump all over this stuff. I'm no raving right winger, quite the opposite, but the way that organisation is being run makes me despair. Fully with Souness on this. Quite clear that his point wasn't aimed at women at all but was just trying to emphasise that physicality in the men's game makes it better to watch. Most football fans would agree with that I think.

Also, I think the female footballers complaining need to be a bit careful. There are physical differences between men and women. You can't ignore that. So you wouldn't expect the men's and women's games to be played exactly at the same tempo, with the same physicality. The recent Euros was a great watch and there were aspects that were more enjoyable than the "men's" game, particularly the lack of play acting and respect for the officials. So I don't think the women's game necessarily ought to be advertising itself to be exactly the same as the men's equivalent. That way it will always be second fiddle. Instead they should recognise and promote the strong points of the female game rather than getting het up about comments such as those made by Souness.
These 3 users liked this post: Leisure claretgimmer Ashingtonclaret46

Ric_C
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:22 am
Been Liked: 742 times
Has Liked: 122 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Ric_C » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:07 am

I know it's impractical but the women's game would be a lot more solid if they made the goals smaller by about a foot. Seeing yet another ball sail over a diminutive goalie's head is almost like a game breaking computer game glitch they forgot to fix.

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by houseboy » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:18 am

It is sad that people cannot speak their mind any more. I know we bang on about free speech and the easily offended but there is a real problem here. People have opinions and those opinions differ but it is not always about ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ as too many people think. How many times have you heard the phrase, usually uttered in shocked or fake shocked tones, ‘you can’t say that’. We appear to have come to a point where the thought police are very much in control and I find that extremely sad. People seem to have moved the line between the genuinely offensive and hateful and the the somewhat over sensitive, some would say childish, offence that many now have and taken it to an extreme. It would appear that because of the desire by some to destroy all elements of the apparently offensive we have arrived at a point where people, male and female, have to be so cautious about what they say that no actual conversation can be had.
It seems that ‘context’ is a word that will soon be scrubbed from dictionaries as a dead, no longer required word.
These 3 users liked this post: welsbyswife Colburn_Claret Ashingtonclaret46

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:31 am

Jamesy wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:37 am
Sadly we don’t have free speech anymore in this country. And we have too many people looking to jump on people in the media who say things which may upset the ever growing number of “easily offended” people.
He will end up having to issue a grovelling apology in order to keep his job. Mind you, he is at the age now and has surely amassed enough money to be able to tell them to shove it.
Sign of the times it's what I miss about the olden days everybody knew where there stood you could say what you wanted & mostly it was accepted in the genuine spirit even if it wasn't a chat over a pint resolved any misunderstandings. Society is very much different now where people strive to create problems at the drop of a hat.
This user liked this post: Beaconsfield Claret

welsbyswife
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:50 pm
Been Liked: 494 times
Has Liked: 280 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by welsbyswife » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:59 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:31 am
Sign of the times it's what I miss about the olden days everybody knew where there stood you could say what you wanted & mostly it was accepted in the genuine spirit even if it wasn't a chat over a pint resolved any misunderstandings. Society is very much different now where people strive to create problems at the drop of a hat.
Ah, those "olden days" when everything was just perfect. Never existed. It's about context. Undoubtedly people are over-sensitive to things these days like Souness's comments where he really didn't mean to offend. But you can't use that to deny the fact that the past was a far more racist, sexist and more homophobic place. Not stuff that could be called a "misunderstanding" to be resolved over a pint.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

daveisaclaret
Posts: 2058
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
Been Liked: 1129 times
Has Liked: 94 times
Location: your mum

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by daveisaclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:03 am

Just to be clear, Souness made these comments on telly, and then went on the radio the next morning and doubled down. He then issued a statement via Sky where he didn't apologise. He is not facing any consequences and still works both jobs.

He has the right to make the comments just as people have the right to disagree and criticise him.

You might not like or agree with the criticism he's faced but if you think this is a "free speech" or "cancel culture" issue then you've unfortunately fallen into a senseless culture war completely detached from reality.
These 2 users liked this post: Big Vinny K Greenmile

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:07 am

welsbyswife wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:59 am
Ah, those "olden days" when everything was just perfect. Never existed. It's about context. Undoubtedly people are over-sensitive to things these days like Souness's comments where he really didn't mean to offend. But you can't use that to deny the fact that the past was a far more racist, sexist and more homophobic place. Not stuff that could be called a "misunderstanding" to be resolved over a pint.
Everybody was happier back then that's all I remember, people helped each other & looked out for each other & you could trust people more, I'd love to go back but I've yet to discover anybody that's invented a time travelling machine, the olden days for me was just perfect.

Big Vinny K
Posts: 2429
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Been Liked: 1009 times
Has Liked: 275 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:15 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:07 am
Everybody was happier back then that's all I remember, people helped each other & looked out for each other & you could trust people more, I'd love to go back but I've yet to discover anybody that's invented a time travelling machine, the olden days for me was just perfect.
Everybody was not happier at all - you may have been !
I have a very close friend who for the first 40 / 45 years of his entire life suffered racist comments dressed up as “banter”. He knew that if he rose to this or said anything back that it would make matters worse for him. It does not mean it did not hurt him every time something was said.
I know 100% he does not yearn for the “good ole days”

Of course there are certain things from the past we wish were in the current society. But racism, sexism, homophobia are not on my list - even if you thought it was banter back then….or still do now….it’s not about how you felt it’s about those being spoken to or written about feel.

And just to get back to the topic of the thread there was nothing wrong with what Souness said in the context he said it - nothing at all.
These 5 users liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46 GodIsADeeJay81 welsbyswife wilks_bfc BertiesBeehole

ClaretAndJew
Posts: 8020
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
Been Liked: 2814 times
Has Liked: 503 times
Location: Earth

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by ClaretAndJew » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:36 am

These days.......

Chobulous
Posts: 2132
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:27 am
Been Liked: 955 times
Has Liked: 11 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Chobulous » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:40 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:15 am
Everybody was not happier at all - you may have been !
I have a very close friend who for the first 40 / 45 years of his entire life suffered racist comments dressed up as “banter”. He knew that if he rose to this or said anything back that it would make matters worse for him. It does not mean it did not hurt him every time something was said.
I know 100% he does not yearn for the “good ole days”

Of course there are certain things from the past we wish were in the current society. But racism, sexism, homophobia are not on my list - even if you thought it was banter back then….or still do now….it’s not about how you felt it’s about those being spoken to or written about feel.

And just to get back to the topic of the thread there was nothing wrong with what Souness said in the context he said it - nothing at all.
This all day long

I also have a friend who was treated in the same way. Met him in the 70s on my first day at Main Gas. One of the best friends I ever had, but looking back the abuse he had to put up with dressed up as banter was shameful.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:41 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:15 am
Everybody was not happier at all - you may have been !
I have a very close friend who for the first 40 / 45 years of his entire life suffered racist comments dressed up as “banter”. He knew that if he rose to this or said anything back that it would make matters worse for him. It does not mean it did not hurt him every time something was said.
I know 100% he does not yearn for the “good ole days”

Of course there are certain things from the past we wish were in the current society. But racism, sexism, homophobia are not on my list - even if you thought it was banter back then….or still do now….it’s not about how you felt it’s about those being spoken to or written about feel.

And just to get back to the topic of the thread there was nothing wrong with what Souness said in the context he said it - nothing at all.
I'll rephrase it everybody seemed happier although with some exceptions as in the case of your friend who unfortunately experienced what he experienced but you can't really isolate any particular era as being exempt from discrimination, it happened then it happens now it's how our behavioural tendencies have changed from being relaxed to being super sensitive.

bpgburn
Posts: 517
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:02 pm
Been Liked: 184 times
Has Liked: 83 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by bpgburn » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:50 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:41 am
I'll rephrase it everybody seemed happier although with some exceptions as in the case of your friend who unfortunately experienced what he experienced but you can't really isolate any particular era as being exempt from discrimination, it happened then it happens now it's how our behavioural tendencies have changed from being relaxed to being super sensitive.
Out of curiosity, how old are you to be hankering for the "olden" days?

Big Vinny K
Posts: 2429
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Been Liked: 1009 times
Has Liked: 275 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:56 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:41 am
I'll rephrase it everybody seemed happier although with some exceptions as in the case of your friend who unfortunately experienced what he experienced but you can't really isolate any particular era as being exempt from discrimination, it happened then it happens now it's how our behavioural tendencies have changed from being relaxed to being super sensitive.
Relaxed / ‘banter’ versus super sensitive
I’ll take the latter cheers if it’s a choice between the two.

Harking back to the 70s, 80s/90s is something I often do for music, fashion, football etc….but not for Love Thy Neighbour or to be a bit more serious the way that anyone who was not white or straight was spoken to or treated by the rest of the society.

And of course you can isolate certain eras for being discriminate - what an ignorant thing to say. You don’t think that the 1980s for example was a particular discriminate era for gay men do you ?

It’s all relative - and right now things are relatively a lot better than the good old days in the areas I have mentioned - but obviously a long long way from being perfect

Ric_C
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:22 am
Been Liked: 742 times
Has Liked: 122 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Ric_C » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:04 am

daveisaclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:03 am
Just to be clear, Souness made these comments on telly, and then went on the radio the next morning and doubled down. He then issued a statement via Sky where he didn't apologise. He is not facing any consequences and still works both jobs.

He has the right to make the comments just as people have the right to disagree and criticise him.

You might not like or agree with the criticism he's faced but if you think this is a "free speech" or "cancel culture" issue then you've unfortunately fallen into a senseless culture war completely detached from reality.
Yeah, but Eni Aluko and Bethany England couldn't wait to have a go on twitter and make a potential big deal about this. Safe to say the replies and overall sentiment weren't exactly what they were expecting.

Firthy
Posts: 4966
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:04 am
Been Liked: 1607 times
Has Liked: 275 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Firthy » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:06 am

Being a white heterosexual male these days is enough to make you want to top yourself. Well not quite but you get the gist :o :shock: :lol: :lol:

daveisaclaret
Posts: 2058
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
Been Liked: 1129 times
Has Liked: 94 times
Location: your mum

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by daveisaclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:15 am

Ric_C wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:04 am
Yeah, but Eni Aluko and Bethany England couldn't wait to have a go on twitter and make a potential big deal about this. Safe to say the replies and overall sentiment weren't exactly what they were expecting.
Were the replies and overall sentiment against Aluko and England's free speech or an attempt at cancel culture?

JohnMcGreal
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:37 am
Been Liked: 1344 times
Has Liked: 438 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by JohnMcGreal » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:20 am

dsr wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:40 pm
Some people have just seen half a chance to get annoyed and have taken it with both feet.
Sounds like Souness' playing career.
This user liked this post: Big Vinny K

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10843
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5521 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:55 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:41 am
I'll rephrase it everybody seemed happier although with some exceptions as in the case of your friend who unfortunately experienced what he experienced but you can't really isolate any particular era as being exempt from discrimination, it happened then it happens now it's how our behavioural tendencies have changed from being relaxed to being super sensitive.
What you mean is that discrimination used to be tolerated and now (by most) it isn't.

You are pining for the time when discrimination was tolerated.

Try and dress it up another way if you like but it's apparent to everyone who can read what you mean.

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:18 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:56 am
Relaxed / ‘banter’ versus super sensitive
I’ll take the latter cheers if it’s a choice between the two.

Harking back to the 70s, 80s/90s is something I often do for music, fashion, football etc….but not for Love Thy Neighbour or to be a bit more serious the way that anyone who was not white or straight was spoken to or treated by the rest of the society.

And of course you can isolate certain eras for being discriminate - what an ignorant thing to say. You don’t think that the 1980s for example was a particular discriminate era for gay men do you ?

It’s all relative - and right now things are relatively a lot better than the good old days in the areas I have mentioned - but obviously a long long way from being perfect
Things were different like I said & the 1980s launched erasure etc things were actually catching on & becoming more fashionable, I actually think it's you being the ignorant 1 labelling that decade as being homophobic, sure some people were but you can't broad brush that era as being that, the 1980s era was actually giving people an identity & the confidence to come out of their shell not the other way around, social media wasn't in existence so that side wasn't the issue it is nowadays it's actually some elements of that which has delivered the platform for abuse, largely in the 80s you was accepted for what you was & if you wasn't you wouldn't find no problems finding acceptance elsewhere.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10088
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:29 pm

"largely in the 80s you was accepted for what you was & if you wasn't you wouldn't find no problems finding acceptance elsewhere."


If you don't like being a victim of racist or homophobic discrimination go somewhere else, seems to be the stance

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:35 pm

Bet you wasn't even born by then but feel free to dismiss comments from people who were & lived in that era.

JohnMac
Posts: 7181
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 pm
Been Liked: 2367 times
Has Liked: 3781 times
Location: Padiham

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by JohnMac » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:42 pm

There are people out there who love nothing more than finding fault with others. Some of the former Woman's England Team fall into that category and jump on every little nuance to misrepresent others whilst banging their personal drum. Women who seek parity in Football can bang on about how the Women won the European Championship, something the Men have never done but not see the irony.

Was his choice of words wrong?
Yes

Was the context of his statement wrong?
No

Middle-agedClaret
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:55 pm
Been Liked: 314 times
Has Liked: 1069 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by Middle-agedClaret » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:50 pm

…and as for that Crown Paints advert…

bpgburn
Posts: 517
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:02 pm
Been Liked: 184 times
Has Liked: 83 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by bpgburn » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:53 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:35 pm
Bet you wasn't even born by then but feel free to dismiss comments from people who were & lived in that era.
So how old are you?

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10088
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Graeme Souness - Men's football

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:55 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:35 pm
Bet you wasn't even born by then but feel free to dismiss comments from people who were & lived in that era.
Wrong

Not much of a surprise considering you are wrong about most things.

Post Reply