Am I missing something?

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TheFamilyCat
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:35 pm

The defence is a curious one at the moment. The fact we are conceding so few chances has to be a positive. But the conversion rate of those chances is far too high.

Conceding in each of the last three games when we have restricted the opposition to less than ten chances each is poor.

The stats and xg should really have resulted in clean sheets. Hopefully VK will find the answer.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:37 pm

Jambo wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:12 pm
Ah yes, apart from the soft goals we keep conceding
All 3 of them ...... in a new system, and conceded by a defence that it only just getting to know each other
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:38 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:24 pm
I hope you never have health issues that impact your ability to do your job. Utterly disgraceful comment. A serious injury or health condition whether acute or chronic is never easy to deal with and impacts quality of life and ultimately mental well-being as well, especially chronic or recurrent problems. You're left feeling like it's your fault you're unwell, and comments like this intensify this. And before you bring up his salary - He's an international footballer who has represented his nation in the World Cup, you don't get that far without competitive drive and ambition, the money is a poor substitute for the mental toll it takes to be unable to do what you're good at and love, and miss out on what should be prime experiences.
Gudmundsson has had a tragically unfortunate injury record, and the club has always done the utmost right thing in standing by and trying to support him through it, not just because of the valuable services he's offered us when fit (particularly in the 2017-18 season) but because it's the right thing to do.
Whilst the phrase "stealing a wage" is quite brutal for footballers, he hasn't been able to perform the task that he was employed for, to a level that's required for his employer.

The club made a mistake in extending his contract back in 2021, because he hadn't really done enough to justify it and it would've been better for the club to let him go.
I assume they'll do that when it expires next summer.

tiger76
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by tiger76 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:10 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:38 pm
Whilst the phrase "stealing a wage" is quite brutal for footballers, he hasn't been able to perform the task that he was employed for, to a level that's required for his employer.

The club made a mistake in extending his contract back in 2021, because he hadn't really done enough to justify it and it would've been better for the club to let him go.
I assume they'll do that when it expires next summer.
Baffled me at the time why we offered JBG an extension, sounds harsh but we can't keep rewarding failure, no it's not his fault he's been carrying injuries, however equally we can ill afford to continue paying out a good amount in wages if he's not going to be able to contribute on the park.

I'm sure he'll be released next summer, can't see anyone coming in for him beforehand, so we can only hope he'll at least play some games over the course of the season.
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Jambo
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Jambo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:17 pm

Personally I don't think the system has anything to do with conceding a goal from a long ball and a flick on, but people can keep telling themselves whatever they want about the new tactics. We have a soft underbelly.

tiger76
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by tiger76 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:27 pm

Jambo wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:17 pm
Personally I don't think the system has anything to do with conceding a goal from a long ball and a flick on, but people can keep telling themselves whatever they want about the new tactics. We have a soft underbelly.
I wouldn't disagree with that, both the Hull and Luton goals were avoidable, and we do appear vulnerable in the air, which has to be a concern.

Other teams will have duly noted this, and you can be sure they'll test us out in future games.

BleedingClaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by BleedingClaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:31 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:54 am
If Kevin Long is the answer, I don’t want to know the question.
He may not be the answer but the question is do we need to be playing 2 proper centre backs
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Jambo
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Jambo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:39 pm

Taylor is shortish for a CB and THB isn't quite as dominant aerially as the defenders we've been used to - Tarks, Mee, Keane, etc etc - so it's certainly something teams will look to exploit, especially when us having so much possession means teams will probably use direct counters against us.

I don't think it's anything to panic about, especially as THB is developing ridiculously fast, but the goals we are conceding are at least a slight concern. Last night's was pretty pathetic, you shouldn't concede as easily as that at any serious level really.

hetheclaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by hetheclaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:17 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:32 am
Turns up every day, doesn’t kick up a fuss and until recently was never injured and always available for selection

Played 16 games the season we finished 7th

How’s that ‘stealing a living’?

Pathetic view of one of our players
I'm not denying he's done alright for us when called upon. But I just think he's had a really, really odd career. Why has he never wanted to go and actually play, have a proper career? He's been with us since the start of 2010 and has played 91 games - there really can't be many outfield players who have had a career like that.

He turns up every day and doesn't kick up a fuss because he knows he's somehow managed to get a very good contract and kept having it renewed.

It's not pathetic, it's just my assessment of the facts. Don't be aggressive.

hetheclaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by hetheclaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:19 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:05 am
Not his fault. The club kept him and offered him contracts. He's never really let uus down when he has played. But his type of player is probably not suited to our new style of play. Then again neither is Tayor at Centre Back. The guy stealing a living has unfortunately been JBG.
To accuse JBG of stealing a living is pretty crass, the bloke has no control over his injury problems.

Taffy on the wing
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:19 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:03 am
Isn't one of McNally's attributes that he can pick out a pass. I thought Charlie's use of the ball last night was very poor, regardless of getting caught out for the goal. We obviously want to stop the conceding, but I would prioritise a body than can help make better use of all our possession.

I assume VK knows best, but if not McNally, we need an upgrade.
I certainly agree with you about Taylor.....so frustrating, he had many chances to get Maatsen away and running but passed it behind him every time.

CoolClaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by CoolClaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:21 pm

hetheclaret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:17 pm
I'm not denying he's done alright for us when called upon. But I just think he's had a really, really odd career. Why has he never wanted to go and actually play, have a proper career? He's been with us since the start of 2010 and has played 91 games - there really can't be many outfield players who have had a career like that.

He turns up every day and doesn't kick up a fuss because he knows he's somehow managed to get a very good contract and kept having it renewed.

It's not pathetic, it's just my assessment of the facts. Don't be aggressive.
Of course it’s pathetic, you literally accused a model pro of stealing a wage? That’s aggressive, not stating the facts behind why he hasn’t ‘stolen a wage’

ŽižkovClaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:23 pm

I wonder if we wouldn't be better served with a more conventional 4231 with Taylor LB, freeing up Maatsen to be on the left of the 3 behind Jay/Barnes

The current 4222 is producing pretty football but not enough actual goals

hetheclaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by hetheclaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:24 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:21 pm
Of course it’s pathetic, you literally accused a model pro of stealing a wage? That’s aggressive, not stating the facts behind why he hasn’t ‘stolen a wage’
[/quo

It's not pathetic? I think it's a perfectly reasonable assessment of his Burnley career which many people would agree with I would have thought. A career wasted on the bench.

warksclaret
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by warksclaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:24 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:27 pm
I wouldn't disagree with that, both the Hull and Luton goals were avoidable, and we do appear vulnerable in the air, which has to be a concern.

Other teams will have duly noted this, and you can be sure they'll test us out in future games.
Not only are we vulnerable in the air, but I see no evidence of us challenging aerially when we win a corner. We had a fantastic advantage when Keane, Mee, Tarks and more recently Collins went up for a corner. Infact if you take out Cornet then Mee, Tarks & Collins scored more goals than Vydra, Barnes, Jayrod combined, thats our entire forward line

lucs86
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by lucs86 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:25 pm

That was a great goal by Hull last night, I don't think there's a lot that could have been done about it. Looks easy for them to do (longball, header, through) but they'd have done it 5 times a half if it was.
Taylor gives us more attacking potential on the ball, better crosser, dribbler, passer than most CBs, and it's our attacking play where we're most obviously lacking.
I'd like to see McNally because I prefer a big CB for set pieces (which we get a lot of) but we don't look like conceding a lot as we are.
For me we'll get more bang for buck investing in forwards to make the most of the possession we're getting.

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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:25 pm

"Man signs contract offered to him and benefits from terms of that contract shocker"

quoonbeatz
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by quoonbeatz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:26 pm

Jambo wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:17 pm
Personally I don't think the system has anything to do with conceding a goal from a long ball and a flick on, but people can keep telling themselves whatever they want about the new tactics. We have a soft underbelly.
Whilst it wasn't the only reason, the system played a huge part in the goal - it was the reason the players were in the positions they were. It needs tightening up but that only comes through playing together. Like the rest of our play, it needs time.

Nodrog
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Nodrog » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:31 pm

What on earth is Kompany doing to Charlie Taylor? A robot could have done the job thatTaylor did against Hull. There is much lament about lack of goals - well it is not surprising when we have a reeally skillful attack minded full back stuck in the middle of the field passing sideways all match.
Come on Kompany - get real!!
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nil_desperandum
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:35 pm

Nodrog wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:31 pm
What on earth is Kompany doing to Charlie Taylor? A robot could have done the job thatTaylor did against Hull. There is much lament about lack of goals - well it is not surprising when we have a reeally skillful attack minded full back stuck in the middle of the field passing sideways all match.
Come on Kompany - get real!!
I would imagine that - like most of us - Kompany really considers that Maatsen will score more goals and get more assists than CT.
For the moment - as we're a work in progress, I'm prepared to back him.

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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:37 pm

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:23 pm
I wonder if we wouldn't be better served with a more conventional 4231 with Taylor LB, freeing up Maatsen to be on the left of the 3 behind Jay/Barnes

The current 4222 is producing pretty football but not enough actual goals
If it wasn't producing chances it would be a concern, but it clearly is.
It's the 7% conversion rate that is the big worry. We should have 12 pts in all honesty, with a tiny bit of luck.

Jay did better than Ash, but he doesn't have the pace to play off the shoulder of the last man and beat him to the ball. Tella did look quick enough, with his role portrayed as Striker/Winger, I would be tempted to play him in that forward spot. Bastien looks fine for me, doing what he does, despite others saying Brownhill should be deeper in midfield, I think he needs to get closer to the CF, especially in the absence of Twine. Roberts and Vitinho, need a greater understanding of their positions. Roberts practically climbed in his pocket on occasion, drawing defenders to him, when he should be pulling away and making space for the lad to do his thing. The other noticeable thing is Roberts never seems to overlap Vitinho, he just crowds him out.
The biggest flaw, throughout the team, was how many times we had a player open for a ball through the channels, or an opportunity to play a ball to the corner flag to give the wingers something to chase, that just didn't happen. Playing the ball sideways or back, when there was a proactive pass on.

dougcollins
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by dougcollins » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:23 pm

Is this McNally feller injured then?

tiger76
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by tiger76 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:51 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:23 pm
Is this McNally feller injured then?
Doubt it he's been on the bench, and came on in the dying minutes at Watford.

Maybe just being slowly integrated into the group by Kompany, it does seem strange though that we're choosing to play Charlie out of his natural position, and it would come as no surprise to me if McNally/THB became our regular CB pairing during the season.

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