House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

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Spiral
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House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 am

Just like old times, a Thrones thread on upthelcaretsmad! Let's get the gang back together again!!!

So then. What did you think of the first episode? I bloody loved it!

First half of the episode was a bit weird, reacclimatising to the world and whatnot, and some of the SFX were absolutely shite, but by the time the proper drama kicked in I was all in. I've flicked through GRRM's Fire & Blood up to the part of the book that this show covers, but I stopped at that point because that book really is just a Westeros version of the Silmarillion, which is to say, quite artless, and I thought I'd enjoy the story more by watching unfolding on-screen rather than in the book, so perhaps Fire & Blood spoilers should be avoided for this thread?

This show feels like a meet up with a mate you haven't seen for a long while. Love it.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Firthy » Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:43 am

Really enjoyed it. Usually don't like prequels because you know the eventual ending but didn't seem to think about it when watching this.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Red Fox Rocks Socks » Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:45 am

I couldn’t remember Matt smiths name so googled him. Very upset to find on wiki he’s a b@stards fan.

Hopefully he’ll have a gruesome death as punishment
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Bosscat » Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:08 am

Red Fox Rocks Socks wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:45 am
I couldn’t remember Matt smiths name so googled him. Very upset to find on wiki he’s a b@stards fan.

Hopefully he’ll have a gruesome death as punishment
Was the "Game of Thrones" director of "series one episode 10" a Sheff Wednesday fan hence Sean Beans Gory Exit 🤭
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:10 am

Spiral wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 am
that book really is just a Westeros version of the Silmarillion, which is to say, quite artless

Criticising the Silmarillion?

Now that is a red line in the sand!

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by claretburns » Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:58 am

Loved it and already hooked for next week's episode.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Falcon » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:50 pm

Solid start.

Loved the juxtaposition of the bloody tourney violence and the anaesthetic-free deadly Ceasarian (a 'Queen's battlefield' as she put it herself), although it was tough to watch at times.

I haven't read the book so I've no idea what's going to happen next (no book spoilers on here please) and I'm quite excited to find out.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by bfcjg » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:57 pm

Really enjoyed it,sets the scene really well for the series. Might even rewatch the dragon scenes this winter to remind me what flames look like.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by 4midable » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:49 pm

Paddy is 1 of the best
So it will be a great series

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:32 pm

Just watched the first episode.

It was alright as a set the scene episode but nothing special.

GoT had great acting performances as well as strong storyline.
Hopefully more to come next week.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Falcon » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:37 pm

I thought the Queen put in a fantastic acting performance personally.

Obviously she won't be featuring much from here on in, but got to appreciate the craft.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:47 pm

Yeah, maybe she did and it went a bit under the radar with trying to work out everything going on and sussing who the new characters were.

It will get far easier to recognise as the characters become more familiar.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Tricky Trevor » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:02 pm

4midable wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:49 pm
Paddy is 1 of the best
So it will be a great series
If he gets beyond ep2?
I don’t know and don’t want to know so no spoiler replies PLEASE.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:06 pm

Did they film at one of GIADJ's infamous get togethers 🤔

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by 4midable » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:23 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:02 pm
If he gets beyond ep2?
I don’t know and don’t want to know so no spoiler replies PLEASE.
Thats a spoiler in its own.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Tricky Trevor » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:03 pm

4midable wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:23 pm
Thats a spoiler in its own.
Sorry just referencing the fact that one of the strengths of the show is, unless you’ve read the books, nobody knows who will survive the next episode.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by 4midable » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:31 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:03 pm
Sorry just referencing the fact that one of the strengths of the show is, unless you’ve read the books, nobody knows who will survive the next episode.
Id like to imagine an actor of his stature would be around for a bit but yes your right

Given hes made someone an heir ;)

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Falcon » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:33 pm

There's usually only one outcome if the focus on a character on a TV show is their seemingly innocuous injury/illness...

That's my takeaway from Viserys's wound scene.

As I said earlier though, I've not read the book so I'm just speculating.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by jedi_master » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:37 pm

I absolutely loved the episode.

Set the scene perfectly, immediately gave us a good understanding of each main players motives and manner and set the tone for what is to come (possibly).

Few thoughts:

- The 'Kings Hand' (Ser Otto Hightower) seemed the most conniving, sly and manipulative of all of the new cast to me. His very clear offering of his daughter to the King after the Queen died showed his ambitions.

- Daemon Targaryen is being clearly cast as the villain of the piece, but in actuality I am not sure he appeared to be anything other than loyal to his brother, albeit brattish and crass. The way he was cast aside by the King after manipulation from his colleagues possibly does now make him the antagonist who wants to claim the throne. Additionally, nothing outwardly stated per se, but clear to me that there is possibly an active sexual relationship with the King's (very) young daughter who is now of course the heir to the Iron Throne. Possibly going to play her off against the King?

Loving it, it felt like vintage GoT, relying more on knife sharp dialogue and body language than over the top action scenes which littered Seasons 7 and 8 of the parent show.
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:34 pm

Just watched Episode One ... am reserving judgment & won't say I enjoyed it or didn't ... am going to give it a few episodes to see how and where these new characters take us.

I think I am more looking forward to the LotR prequel in September tbh

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:07 pm

No Fire and Blood book spoilers is a good rule for this thread, I think. Limiting to show spoilers only for episodes that have aired would be best.

And like you say, jedi, some of the dialogue was very magisterial which is faithful to the way GRRM writes dialogue in his books.

I loved how a there were meta references slipped in so smoothly and without being jarring, for instance, Viserys' reference to A Feast for Crows at the small council meeting after this family dies, which is a good turn of phrase in the context and would be something he would say naturally, and I loved how the period covering the original Game of Thrones is referred to in-world as A Song of Ice and Fire, the name of the original book series, but done in such a way that it adds to the plot, rather than being a cheap gag or nudge and wink to the audience, by writing it into the show as though the dream/vision/premonition of Aegon the Conqueror that Viserys mentions is some closely guarded esoteric knowledge that only Targaryen rulers must possess.

Daemon is definitely this world's Caligula. He's apparently got a real temper on him, and he's a massive psychopath. He's going to get up to some real nasty stuff. But knowing this show they'll probably make you sympathise with him by the end like they did with Jaime Lannister.

Most impressive thing for me in this episode was the council meeting discussing the succession. I watched it back again and it's framed beautifully. Whenever the three most important characters in the scene were discussing matters of state and succession, Viserys, Otto Hightower and Corlys Velaryon, the camera was placed practically level with the table, or just slightly beneath it, so way below those characters' eyelines, and with bits of furniture and walls, etc, obstructing a clear view, and one of the first times in that scene, perhaps the very first, in fact, the first time the camera breaks from this framing and places a character's eyeline right in the middle of the screen is when it cuts to Daemon listening in. There's a moment when Otto gets a bit sentimental to try and make his argument, and the camera reframes level with his eyes, but when he is shut down and the conversation turns back to the succession it drops back down to table level. Anyway, my interpretation of this is that the framing of the scene is signalling that these people are dealing in matters far above the heads of 'normal' people; they're above you, forcing you to look up. That one brief moment where Otto tries to speak to human matters, the camera meets his eyeline, but that's the only time, and it's really only Daemon who is level with the viewer. I really liked the way this scene was shot.

Another thing I noticed is Corlys sitting side-on most of the time during this episode as though he's about to get up and go at any minute. I think the directing here is interesting. We're being primed to expect him to leg it when $hit gets real, I think, suggesting he is not wholly committed to the King's council, he is not absolutely loyal, he's ready to get up and leave his old alliances when new ones are more convenient.

Anyway, that's enough of that stuff from me. The first episode has got a higher IMDB score (9/10) than episode 1 of GoT (albeit only by a fraction). But I mention this because GoT wasn't reliably pumping out 9's and above until halfway through the first season. In a sense there's less exposition needed in this show as there's the assumption that the viewer is familiar with the world, and the cast is far smaller, needing fewer introductions, so because of these natural advantages I reckon there's the potential for the interpersonal drama in this show to match or exceed the best moments of GoT.
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by claretburns » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:31 pm

It was great to see the King pass on the prophecy of a Song of Ice and Fire (GoT) about all the world needing to come together to defeat the enemies in the far north during the long night, it had a feeling of two fingers up at D & D for the awful season 8 of GoT.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by wilks_bfc » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:08 am

Watched the first episode last night

I won’t comment on any plot, but did anybody else find it really “quiet”?
We had to turn the volume up to 90 to hear anything clearly

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Bosscat » Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:35 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:08 am
Watched the first episode last night

I won’t comment on any plot, but did anybody else find it really “quiet”?
We had to turn the volume up to 90 to hear anything clearly
Most TV dramas are these days the dialogue mumbles or quiet so you turn up the volume and then BOOM in comes the dramatic music or the adverts and deafen yourself 🙄

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by yTib » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:29 am

i thought the first episode was rather dull but i expect it to improve.

if it's half as good as GOT then it's going to be worth watching.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:50 pm

Wow, the second episode is even better than the first.

Had a bit of trepidation about this series when it was announced. We watched GoT go from being a great low fantasy series in S1, to the best show ever made by the end of series 4. It went stratospheric in its ambition, execution, drama, and not to mention popularity by the end of S6, then we saw it decline in the last two seasons, dumbing down the script, the characters, simplifying the themes and narrative, with characters becoming less complex, the writers were using plot to put characters in spectacular situations and set-pieces rather than continuing to use plot to develop characters and themes...then we saw that god forsaken, mushy, Disney-esque dragon ride segment in the last season and I wanted to be sick, and we got served up a bunch of weak banter and one-too-many penis jokes, some plot lines were just abandoned, characters were being axed for shock value and not in service of the story, and just a big old f'k up in the denouement to sour it all. It was technically brilliant, but there were so, so many writing errors.

So yeah, I was worried about this one. Worried for the complexity of the characters, worried about the script, preparing myself to cringe at "#GirlPower" feminism, worried about the showrunners misunderstanding the fact that the folks who are hardcore for this show actually couldn't give two $hits about dragons — that we're here to watch absolute b@stards walking around gardens and castles and keeps, plotting and scheming with and against one another, working out how to be even bigger b@stards than they already are. I was worried that they'd run away from the tone set in GRRM's writing, like they did in the last seasons on GoT, where it felt like the showrunners, Benioff and Weiss, were chasing an audience who perhaps thought the first few seasons were too complicated and confusing for their liking, and looking totally clueless without GRRM's writing to guide them.

And oh my god, how these fears were misplaced. At least based on these early episodes (*crosses fingers and toes for more of this, please*). The dialogue is immense. Forget the scale of the show, I honestly think this show could be carried along by the quality of the dialogue alone. It's not often you see this diction on TV. Now, granted, the impeccable grammar and diction with which these characters speak — (it is to be assumed they are highly educated, considering their nobility) — granted this would sound out of place in other settings, the writing is very faithful to the rhythm and flow of GRRM's dialogue in his books. It's totally world-appropriate. If anything the writers have overcorrected in this series (and that's not a bad thing). To repeat a word I used above, the dialogue is so damn magisterial. The dialogue is written with such precision and rhythm that it's almost poetic.
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by dougcollins » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:41 am

Red Fox Rocks Socks wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:45 am
I couldn’t remember Matt smiths name so googled him. Very upset to find on wiki he’s a b@stards fan.

Hopefully he’ll have a gruesome death as punishment
I refused to watch Doctor Who when he was in it.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Falcon » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:28 pm

Cracking 2nd episode.

The scene on the bridge between the two competing heirs was top notch.

Can't help but feel a bit sorry for the King. He's trying to make the right moral choices but it seems like mistake after mistake politically.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:06 pm

I think Paddy Consodine looks a lot like Radio 5 presenter and Burnley fan Tony Livesey. I find this distracting.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by JohnMac » Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:31 pm

As someone who has never seen an episode of GOT, is it worth me watching this series?

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:23 pm

Spiral wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:50 pm
Wow, the second episode is even better than the first.

Had a bit of trepidation about this series when it was announced. We watched GoT go from being a great low fantasy series in S1, to the best show ever made by the end of series 4. It went stratospheric in its ambition, execution, drama, and not to mention popularity by the end of S6, then we saw it decline in the last two seasons, dumbing down the script, the characters, simplifying the themes and narrative, with characters becoming less complex, the writers were using plot to put characters in spectacular situations and set-pieces rather than continuing to use plot to develop characters and themes...then we saw that god forsaken, mushy, Disney-esque dragon ride segment in the last season and I wanted to be sick, and we got served up a bunch of weak banter and one-too-many penis jokes, some plot lines were just abandoned, characters were being axed for shock value and not in service of the story, and just a big old f'k up in the denouement to sour it all. It was technically brilliant, but there were so, so many writing errors.

So yeah, I was worried about this one. Worried for the complexity of the characters, worried about the script, preparing myself to cringe at "#GirlPower" feminism, worried about the showrunners misunderstanding the fact that the folks who are hardcore for this show actually couldn't give two $hits about dragons — that we're here to watch absolute b@stards walking around gardens and castles and keeps, plotting and scheming with and against one another, working out how to be even bigger b@stards than they already are. I was worried that they'd run away from the tone set in GRRM's writing, like they did in the last seasons on GoT, where it felt like the showrunners, Benioff and Weiss, were chasing an audience who perhaps thought the first few seasons were too complicated and confusing for their liking, and looking totally clueless without GRRM's writing to guide them.

And oh my god, how these fears were misplaced. At least based on these early episodes (*crosses fingers and toes for more of this, please*). The dialogue is immense. Forget the scale of the show, I honestly think this show could be carried along by the quality of the dialogue alone. It's not often you see this diction on TV. Now, granted, the impeccable grammar and diction with which these characters speak — (it is to be assumed they are highly educated, considering their nobility) — granted this would sound out of place in other settings, the writing is very faithful to the rhythm and flow of GRRM's dialogue in his books. It's totally world-appropriate. If anything the writers have overcorrected in this series (and that's not a bad thing). To repeat a word I used above, the dialogue is so damn magisterial. The dialogue is written with such precision and rhythm that it's almost poetic.
The difference from series 8 was that the writers had no book to write from, as GRR hadn’t written it “GRR Martin is not you bitch,” hysteria about the book… They worked off a rough draft while GRR was busy enjoying his fame and hitting the jackpot financially.

Very interesting you took so much notice of the camera work; if you are not a film student you should think about it. I loved doing film at A-Level, but I’ll warn you you’ll never watch anything passively again. Script writing is a very different skill to fantasy, sadly it showed in GofT at the end (as a former <low level> scriptwriter, and CW within my History PhD (offer received after they saw a couple of pages of an Historical fantasy I’m working on). One is pure thought transposed (writing), the other is often a mathematical equation (scriptwriting).

All in all warming up nicely, I’m much happier with this so far than I was towards the end of GoT.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:52 pm

JohnMac wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:31 pm
As someone who has never seen an episode of GOT, is it worth me watching this series?
The first two episodes are very similar in tone and feel to GoT at its best. Give the two episodes a shot, see if you like it, but don't worry too much about the names of people and places flying over your head. It will be confusing, and a focussed viewing is kind of necessary to fully appreciate the depth of the story even without having seen GoT. You can't just take your brain out for this show without losing track of what's going on. For example, there's a noble house called 'Velaryon', pronounced vel-are-yon. This house traces its ancestry back to a place called Old Valyria, val-ear-ih-yah. People and things from Valyria are referred to as Valyian, val-ear-ian. So If you've seen GoT the historical significance of Old Valeria is nestled in your mind, but you'd still be hearing characters talk about a val-ear-ian guy called Corlys vel-are-yon. So yeah, it's difficult to follow even after having watched GoT, and for this reason having watched GoT is definitely preferable.

But it's supposed to be narratively self-contained in the sense that you can watch the entire thing beginning to end and understand everything without having to watch a single episode of GoT. However, I personally feel that so much of what is powerful and beautiful and that works so well in the story would be lost on anyone who hasn't watched the original series, so I'll stick my neck out and say it almost is impossible to appreciate this show at the level it can be appreciated without the exposition set about in GoT. If you like the first two episodes, and you enjoy the rest of the season too, I can't recommend watching GoT enough. But if it's not for you by episode eight or nine of HotD then I don't think you'd be into GoT either.
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:08 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:23 pm
The difference from series 8 was that the writers had no book to write from, as GRR hadn’t written it “GRR Martin is not you bitch,” hysteria about the book… They worked off a rough draft while GRR was busy enjoying his fame and hitting the jackpot financially.

Very interesting you took so much notice of the camera work; if you are not a film student you should think about it. I loved doing film at A-Level, but I’ll warn you you’ll never watch anything passively again. Script writing is a very different skill to fantasy, sadly it showed in GofT at the end (as a former <low level> scriptwriter, and CW within my History PhD (offer received after they saw a couple of pages of an Historical fantasy I’m working on). One is pure thought transposed (writing), the other is often a mathematical equation (scriptwriting).

All in all warming up nicely, I’m much happier with this so far than I was towards the end of GoT.
No education in film for me. Just that over the years I've watched a load of YouTube channels focussed around screenwriting, shot composition, film-making in general. I just find it really interesting.

Overall I'm not interested too much about fidelity to a text when transposing from literature to the screen. They're hugely different mediums, and sometimes changes to character and plot can serve the adaptation. I think broad story beats and the personalities of the characters are important, but nailing the tone and atmosphere of the source material, and staying true to its themes and ideas, is in my opinion far more important. I think I read somewhere that when Alex Garland wrote Annihilation, based on Jeff Vandermeer's novels, he adapted it based on how he remembered the book and how it made him feel when he read it years prior, rather than going page-to-page and transposing it to a screenplay during the screenwriting process, and that film is absolutely immense, so he's definitely on to something there! And to use your great maths analogy, deviating from the text is useful if it balances the equation.
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by JohnMac » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:45 pm

Spiral wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:52 pm
Cheers Spiral, great insight so I will give it a go!

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:10 am

JohnMac wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:45 pm
Cheers Spiral, great insight so I will give it a go!
John, there was a thing I wanted to say in my last post which I almost started typing out, but I decided against it in case it spoiled anything for upcoming HotD episodes (I'd seen casting announcements and knew certain characters would feature, but didn't want to spoil it for anyone.)

The rest of this post is not so much a direct response to any comment but a mind-dump for the pleasure of anyone who cares to read it! I mentioned about some certain things having greater significance for those who have watched the original series because of how well established those things are. Well, spoiler for episode 3 of HotD: the Lannisters are introduced in this episode!!! and the thing I was going to mention was this show's use of leitmotif. Every major noble house has its own leitmotif, and to the satisfaction of probably every GoT fan on the planet the leitmotifs have been carried over from GoT to HotD. Without wanting to patronise anyone, and for the benefit of those who don't know, a leitmotif is basically a melodic figure in the score of a film or TV show associated with a character or group of people. Kind of their theme music, so to speak. Character A is in this scene, leitmotif A is played. Character B is on screen, leitmotif B is played. It gives every character a sort of 'mood'. The minute the Lannister theme played in this episode, I got chills, honestly. It's incredible how a few notes of a melody can near-instantaneously invoke so much meaning and confer so much importance upon a character. It was really subtle, but it was brilliantly done. Not too bombastic, because the Lannisters are fringe participants in this story compared to GoT, but it was effective.

There is also one other moment of thematic brilliance in the third episode which I can't help but gush over. It's the kill at the end of the hunt. A Targaryen king killing a stag — the sigil of House Baratheon — with a spear made and gifted to him by a Lannister. This is a genius bit of storytelling, for it is a reversal of this which precipitates the events of GoT: a Lannister blade eventually ends the Targaryen dynasty and elevates a Baratheon to the position of king.
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yTib
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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by yTib » Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:11 pm

far too much men standing around talking politics so far and the novelty of watching hordes of men being burned alive by a dragon has long since worn off with GOT.

it must improve.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by yTib » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:50 am

six episodes in now and i'm afraid to say it's rubbish.

i couldn't care less about what happens to any of the characters and nothing happens.

and the only half-decent figure has effectively been replaced!

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:48 pm

yTib wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:50 am
six episodes in now and i'm afraid to say it's rubbish.

i couldn't care less about what happens to any of the characters and nothing happens.

and the only half-decent figure has effectively been replaced!
Just watching the latest episode.
May give it another episode or two but can’t disagree.

Re you’re last comment, we had to pause the episode after a minute to check we hadn’t missed an episode somehow.
Something to explain that is was 10yrs later may have helped

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Buxtonclaret » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:51 pm

Eastenders gets a fantasy/medieval makeover.

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by Spiral » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:23 am

I'm loving it. I can understand it being a bit confusing, but I'm firmly of the belief that a narrative that is a bit difficult to follow on first watch is a price worth paying for internal realism within the text (show) itself. In life people don't often so naturally allude that x number of years have passed between one period in their life and another unless it's in a specific context, any it's difficult to convey this in dramatic dialogue without it being ham-fisted, especially so in a show so tightly written where no words are wasted. Though with that said, there are a number of allusions in this most recent episode to the 10-year time jump — they're just bedded in quite subtly. I think to do this in a more obvious, blatant way would take the audience out of the story.

There's a balance to strike, because the minute you shine too bright a spotlight on meta narrative structure within the actual narrative itself, your audience is reminded of the fact that it is indeed a piece of narrative fiction they're consuming, and this comes at the expense of their investment in the drama, and it takes time within the narrative to re-immerse the audience. To illustrate this point, consider how very aware you are of the fact you're watching a TV show or a film when text pops up on the screen to tell you of a location within the world. Most people would forgive this, and I would, too, but I'd rather prefer it be addressed within the narrative itself, and in a way that is natural to the way people interact, thus maintaining realism. To elaborate a bit more, imagine a song where the lyrics of a verse digress from the actual story being told by the lyrics of the preceding verse and chorus in order to references itself as being a song. It's this kind of thing but in visual drama that I'm getting at. The power of the story is momentarily side-lined by the song referencing itself: there becomes an awareness in the listener that the story is being communicated by lyrics, and this awareness takes the listener out of the drama. I hope this makes sense!!!

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Re: House of the Dragon thread: full spoilers!!!

Post by yTib » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:03 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:48 pm
Re you’re last comment, we had to pause the episode after a minute to check we hadn’t missed an episode somehow.
Something to explain that is was 10yrs later may have helped
:lol: i did exactly the same thing. i even went as far as to look on wikipedia for a synopsis of the last ep just to make sure!

and spiral - everything you just said is almost as pretentious as the show itself. ;)

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