Taylor Harwood-Bellis

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Aclaret
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Aclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:04 pm

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:01 pm
THB will have more international caps than Tarkowski and Mee combined.
Not if Southgate is manager he won't !

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:08 pm

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:01 pm
THB will have more international caps than Tarkowski and Mee combined.
3?

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:09 pm

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:01 pm
THB will have more international caps than Tarkowski and Mee combined.
Il be amazed if he gets 1

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Kevwando » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:13 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:09 pm
Il be amazed if he gets 1
Slightly off topic - however sticking with with judging players, do you still think Benson will be loaned out this season?

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by ashtonlongsider » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:16 pm

I think we are blessed to have the services of THB for the season. However I feel that will be it unless VK is very, very persuasive. I think this lad in the nearness of time will find his level with an Everton or Villa size club long term.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Red Fox Rocks Socks » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:17 pm

I think he’s fantastic. At least once a game we lose it and he finds himself having someone running at him almost 1 on 1 and I don’t think he’s been beaten. As above the late intervention saved 2 points.

His driven passes into feet are a joy to watch, as is him waltzing into midfield carrying the ball.

I think the talk comparing him with Tarky is interesting, I’d like to see him paired with Tarky. A monster physical centre back who can play with THB skills as above.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Burnley1989 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:09 pm
Il be amazed if he gets 1
I wouldn’t, probably the best English CB for his age, I’m not getting too carried away but he plays the way Southgate wants his defenders to play and let be honest, it’s rare our CBS have to do anything other than in a tournament
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:21 pm

Kevwando wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:13 pm
Slightly off topic - however sticking with with judging players, do you still think Benson will be loaned out this season?
Clearly not since the window is closed?

But back to the topic,

These are the following England players that are a similar age that he would have to beat out to get a game for England:

L Colwill
Chalobah
Godfrey
Guehi
Tomori
Tanganga
Hill
Wilmot
Kelly
C Cresswell

Look he might very well do it. But even to get an England cap he’s got some fantastic players to beat to it.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by warksclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:21 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:27 pm
Probably going to be a decent premier league Cb.

Some people love to over egg our talent. He’s knowhere near as good as the CBs we lost this summer.
May not be as good as the 3 CB's we lost but two of them had the advantage of an additional 10 or so years experience, but he is better than both they were at his age. However the key thing is he WANTS to play for us, the other three had no wish to

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Cooclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:58 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:27 pm
Probably going to be a decent premier league Cb.

Some people love to over egg our talent. He’s knowhere near as good as the CBs we lost this summer.
You can’t really compare the two. Totally different players, in polar opposite systems.

Question is which one of Mee/Tarks would be best playing next to him in this new system?
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:03 pm

Brilliant today. He's outstanding in defending 1v1 situations (and this will be music to the ears of the big clubs and the national team), and his distribution is the very best I've seen from a Burnley defender. Yes, he needs to improve on his physicality against the biggest Championship forwards, but that will come - he's 20 years of age.

Ignore what Newcastleclaret says about him btw, this is the guy who called Collins bambi on ice. To call him clueless would an insult to clueless people.
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:09 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:03 pm
Brilliant today. He's outstanding in defending 1v1 situations (and this will be music to the ears of the big clubs and the national team), and his distribution is the very best I've seen from a Burnley defender. Yes, he needs to improve on his physicality against the biggest Championship forwards, but that will come - he's 20 years of age.

Ignore what Newcastleclaret says about him btw, this is the guy who called Collins bambi on ice. To call him clueless would an insult to clueless people.
Although most of what he posts could be seen as rubbish, NC's appraisal of Collins is not as far off as some might believe

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by roperclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:14 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:21 pm
Clearly not since the window is closed?

But back to the topic,

These are the following England players that are a similar age that he would have to beat out to get a game for England:

L Colwill
Chalobah
Godfrey
Guehi
Tomori
Tanganga
Hill
Wilmot
Kelly
C Cresswell

Look he might very well do it. But even to get an England cap he’s got some fantastic players to beat to it.
We’ll Gareth does love a defender. There’s a chance all them could be in the same England squad together

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by roperclaret » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:47 pm
Oh no doubt better at this age. The main reason I don’t think he will make the heights that the OP believes is purely down to a physical level (I don’t think he’s as quick or as strong to make it).

I doubt he will have more successful career than Collins. Collins is playing regular starting eleven football for a top ten premier league team. Harwood Bellis has some way to go to near that level.
Hmm. I recall Phil Jones regularly starting for Man Utd after a big money move and he’s pretty much ended up a laughing stock

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Stayingup » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:41 pm

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:01 pm
THB will have more international caps than Tarkowski and Mee combined.
Well thats not hard to call as Mee hasn't got any and that p!llock.of an Englsnd manager wont pick Tarks preferring a bloke who can't even get in his club team.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Teddy » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:46 pm

Very composed (especially considering his age) with a lethal pass in him. Be delighted to sign him permanently
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:52 pm

Sign him? Never in a million years. Unless we get promoted and even then he's destined for bigger and better things.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:56 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:31 pm
You can’t seriously believe he is massively better than Tarks on the ball?
It's not even remotely close, like at all. He's considerably better on the ball than Tarkowski, alot quicker too.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Tinribs » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:59 pm

bumba wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:10 pm
What are you basing this on??
Brilliant player but personally don't think he's anywhere near Cahill's level defensively hence why City loan him out.
We don't half get carried away when somebody puts a Burnley shirt on
He’s absolute quality,Having seen the lack of quality we have at centre half in the England squad I’d be amazed if he wasn’t called up in the next few years.
Can u imagine Mee or tarkowski trying to play in this system ? No chance pair of great defenders,blocking,winning headers,throwing themselves in front of shots.But footballing wise,both of them had one outball,usually a 70 yard diagonal punt.
THB is the best passer of a ball for a centre half I’ve ever seen in a claret shirt

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:01 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:47 pm
Oh no doubt better at this age. The main reason I don’t think he will make the heights that the OP believes is purely down to a physical level (I don’t think he’s as quick or as strong to make it).

I doubt he will have more successful career than Collins. Collins is playing regular starting eleven football for a top ten premier league team. Harwood Bellis has some way to go to near that level.
Nathan Collins is older than THB and more experienced. Also I'm surprised you mention lack of pace, I think he's quick across the ground for a CB.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:07 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:21 pm
Clearly not since the window is closed?

But back to the topic,

These are the following England players that are a similar age that he would have to beat out to get a game for England:

L Colwill
Chalobah
Godfrey
Guehi
Tomori
Tanganga
Hill
Wilmot
Kelly
C Cresswell

Look he might very well do it. But even to get an England cap he’s got some fantastic players to beat to it.
Godfrey - shite, makeshift CB really
Chalobah - not a CB either really, capable of playing there in a back 3 on the right hand side.
Colwill - is he getting game time at Brighton?
Guehi - very good, like him alot.
Tomori - another excellent CB.
Tanganga - plays right back for Spurs when he can get in the side.
Hill - I dont even know who that is
Wilmot - poor player
Kelly - nowhere near THB
Cresswell - THB's u21 partner, Millwall fans aren't too impressed.

Half of that list is either full backs, average CBs or players who are 4 years older than THB.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by DCWat » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:08 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:42 pm
Completely different league.

The championship has never been this bad before, the step up is massive. If he can do it the prem I would agree. But right now I can’t see him doing it at that level
That is blatantly nonsense. How ever much hyperbole you add to a statement does not make it fact.

It’s probably not be the strongest Championship division of recent years. It is however light years ahead of what it was 10, 15 or 20 years ago.

The influx of foreign players into the English game has naturally seen the levels improve in the lower leagues. Better players have found themselves at a lower level than they might have when competition for places, across clubs and leagues, was less fierce.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:11 am

Cooclaret wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:58 pm
You can’t really compare the two. Totally different players, in polar opposite systems.

Question is which one of Mee/Tarks would be best playing next to him in this new system?
Neither Mee/Tarkowski are quick enough to play a high line, neither are good enough on the ball. They are both suited to a park the bus long ball system, where you don't need pace to defend 1v1's on the edge of your own penalty box. Both very good at bodies on the line defending in your own area and blood and thunder header header header. Mee and Tarkowski can't pass for toffee, Kompany would be going ape shite at Mee's no look pump down the line.
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Teddy » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:12 am

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:52 pm
Sign him? Never in a million years. Unless we get promoted and even then he's destined for bigger and better things.
Yes, that’s why I said I’d be delighted, it would be a fantastic signing. I didn’t say it would happen, more wishful thinking I suppose…
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Blatherwickstattoo » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:50 am

Will go onto great things. Cahill-esc but better

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:51 am

Not his best game and he nearly gifted an equaliser in his dithering and mix up with Muric.
But he is quality going forward and must ensure he doesn't leave in January.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Cooclaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:01 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:11 am
Neither Mee/Tarkowski are quick enough to play a high line, neither are good enough on the ball. They are both suited to a park the bus long ball system, where you don't need pace to defend 1v1's on the edge of your own penalty box. Both very good at bodies on the line defending in your own area and blood and thunder header header header. Mee and Tarkowski can't pass for toffee, Kompany would be going ape shite at Mee's no look pump down the line.
So neither, no wonder Mee left knowing Kompany was coming in.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Brucefanclaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 am

welsbyswife wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:20 pm
Great player. Can't stand the way Phil Bird pronounces his name, rolling his r's with that Blackburn twang.
You know that yesterday’s commentator wasn’t Phil Bird?

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Winstonswhite » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:20 am

He’s a great player. But until he’s playing week in week out in the Premier League I think it’s impossible to make any predictions of how good he will be. The difference between the divisions is absolute light years.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Sproggy » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:39 am

His range of passing is almost as good as James Tarkowski thought his own range was.

There are 19 rows of people sat in the Bob Lord stand that feel a whole lot safer now that JT isn't pinging his pinpoint diagonal cross field balls towards our wingers.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by fatboy47 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:45 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:11 am
Neither Mee/Tarkowski are quick enough to play a high line, neither are good enough on the ball. They are both suited to a park the bus long ball system, where you don't need pace to defend 1v1's on the edge of your own penalty box. Both very good at bodies on the line defending in your own area and blood and thunder header header header. Mee and Tarkowski can't pass for toffee, Kompany would be going ape shite at Mee's no look pump down the line.

This....worth half a dozen likes if it'd been any other poster.
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Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:26 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:07 am
Godfrey - shite, makeshift CB really
Chalobah - not a CB either really, capable of playing there in a back 3 on the right hand side.
Colwill - is he getting game time at Brighton?
Guehi - very good, like him alot.
Tomori - another excellent CB.
Tanganga - plays right back for Spurs when he can get in the side.
Hill - I dont even know who that is
Wilmot - poor player
Kelly - nowhere near THB
Cresswell - THB's u21 partner, Millwall fans aren't too impressed.

Half of that list is either full backs, average CBs or players who are 4 years older than THB.
All of the above have played the majority of there career at CB.

Colwill is the most promising on that list alongside Guehi.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by agreenwood » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:27 am

Morning Bagpuss.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:28 am

DCWat wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:08 am
That is blatantly nonsense. How ever much hyperbole you add to a statement does not make it fact.

It’s probably not be the strongest Championship division of recent years. It is however light years ahead of what it was 10, 15 or 20 years ago.

The influx of foreign players into the English game has naturally seen the levels improve in the lower leagues. Better players have found themselves at a lower level than they might have when competition for places, across clubs and leagues, was less fierce.
Completely disagree, the gap between the prem and this level has never been bigger. There is some real dross at this level.

Which is partly why I believe THB looks very good. He’s going to be a decent prem player no arguments there. But he’s not going to play for a top team that is just pure hyperbole based on a few decent games at Championship level.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:30 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:09 pm
Although most of what he posts could be seen as rubbish, NC's appraisal of Collins is not as far off as some might believe
Yep, I still believe that’s a fairly accurate statement about Collins.

He’s is truly excellent at parts of the game but he has a real howler in him.

The foul yesterday. The stupid handball against newcastle. I’m sure as he gets older he will stop but right now he’s pretty clumsy.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by levraiclaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:33 am

longsidetrumpet wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:20 pm
So what’s the next level up from brilliant?
Is it fabi dabi dozah?
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by tiger76 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:14 am

THB has been an important signing for us, and in a possession based system it's key that our CB'S are comfortable playing out from the back which he is, and he'll play his part in setting up plenty of goals this season, however he's clearly nowhere near the finished article, but he is still only 20 and has the potential to develop into a decent PL defender.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:15 am

Find it a bit insulting that KRBFC has just watched Tarks & Mee give basically week in week out 7/10 + performances in the best league in the world for a good 6 seasons then try and say that for sure THB is miles better than them at after playing 10 games in the champ?

Of course Tarky could play alongside him in our system btw, you’re making it out like he was a complete clogger - more skilful than given credit for

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by taio » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:26 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:15 am
Find it a bit insulting that KRBFC has just watched Tarks & Mee give basically week in week out 7/10 + performances in the best league in the world for a good 6 seasons then try and say that for sure THB is miles better than them at after playing 10 games in the champ?

Of course Tarky could play alongside him in our system btw, you’re making it out like he was a complete clogger - more skilful than given credit for
Yes, absolute fallacy inferring that Tarkowski in particular wouldn't fit in VK's system and team.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Goobs » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:28 am

When comparing him and Cahill you need to remember 1 thing. Cahill had an excellent CB with a wealth of experience leading the Defence. THB is the leader of out defence.

Personally feel he is already as good as most English CB's and he is a young lad.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by karatekid » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:29 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:18 pm
He's only 20 too!
He’s not, he’s twenty.
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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:15 am
Find it a bit insulting that KRBFC has just watched Tarks & Mee give basically week in week out 7/10 + performances in the best league in the world for a good 6 seasons then try and say that for sure THB is miles better than them at after playing 10 games in the champ?

Of course Tarky could play alongside him in our system btw, you’re making it out like he was a complete clogger - more skilful than given credit for
I never said THB was better than Mee/Tarkowski.

What I actually said was he's better on the ball than Tarkowski and I think he'll go on to have a career better than Tarkowski. They're different kind of defenders, suited to different systems. I've seen milk turn quicker than Tarkowski and I don't know who told him he could pass the ball, they were clearly lying to him. Brilliant in the air though and bodies on the line stuff.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by welsbyswife » Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:17 pm

Brucefanclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 am
You know that yesterday’s commentator wasn’t Phil Bird?
Fully aware of that thanks.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:26 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm
I never said THB was better than Mee/Tarkowski.

What I actually said was he's better on the ball than Tarkowski and I think he'll go on to have a career better than Tarkowski. They're different kind of defenders, suited to different systems. I've seen milk turn quicker than Tarkowski and I don't know who told him he could pass the ball, they were clearly lying to him. Brilliant in the air though and bodies on the line stuff.
Better passer of the ball yeah.

For the rest, utter ********.

He’s not that slow, certainly quicker than THB (rewatch the Hull highlights to see his straight line speed)

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:39 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:26 pm
Better passer of the ball yeah.

For the rest, utter ********.

He’s not that slow, certainly quicker than THB (rewatch the Hull highlights to see his straight line speed)
Brings the ball out of defence wonderfully does THB, I wish he'd do it more.

Different defenders suit different systems, it's not ''utter ********'', it's how football works.

Agility and speed wise, THB is streets ahead imo. Defending is alot of turning your body and dashing 5 yards, not a straight line 100m sprint (which I think THB would win comfortably anyway).

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:41 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:39 pm
Brings the ball out of defence wonderfully does THB, I wish he'd do it more.

Different defenders suit different systems, it's not ''utter ********'', it's how football works.

Agility and speed wise, THB is streets ahead imo. Defending is alot of turning your body and dashing 5 yards, not a straight line 100m sprint (which I think THB would win comfortably anyway).
Rewatch Hull strikers leaving him for dead.

Anyway, you don’t even go on the games - Tarky rarely got burnt ever during his entire tenure.

THB is doing well and is a great prospect, let’s just not lose our minds and all objectivity

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:45 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Rewatch Hull strikers leaving him for dead.

Anyway, you don’t even go on the games - Tarky rarely got burnt ever during his entire tenure.

THB is doing well and is a great prospect, let’s just not lose our minds and all objectivity
The Hull game the defensive line got caught pushing high up and forward, the forward is running in a straight line whilst the defender needs to turn and sprint. The Hull attacker was quick and had an enormous body positional advantage and therefor its not a fair race. Tarky wasn't playing in a team with a defensive line pushing up to the halfway line with 50 yards of space inbehind.

What do you mean I don't even go on the games? I've been attending home games for 21 years, how tf would you know what games I attend.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:05 pm

There has absolutely been times where we had a higher line chasing a game and Tarks/Mee has been defending in space.

You think extremely black and white on a number of topics and it’s a bit boring.

THB plods back for their goal. He’s good let’s just not pretend he’s the next coming

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by KRBFC » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:20 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:05 pm
There has absolutely been times where we had a higher line chasing a game and Tarks/Mee has been defending in space.

You think extremely black and white on a number of topics and it’s a bit boring.

THB plods back for their goal. He’s good let’s just not pretend he’s the next coming
Not sure how you think it's a fair race when THB starts with his back to the finish line whilst the attacker is running forwards. Still don't see the relevance to Hull's striker and Tarkowski either. You're just incredibly negative about the new team, good job you don't even attend games.

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Re: Taylor Harwood-Bellis

Post by Mattster » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:20 pm

Had a great game yesterday and won 4/4 aerial duels to boot. He's got natural footballing ability and is very intelligent defender, the physical side is easier to develop than both of those skillsets so there's no reason why he can't develop to be a regular England International (possibly not starting every game).

Honestly think that if we do go up we'll sign him permanently for around £15m with a City retaining a buyback option (probably around £40m). Think he would opt for us over "bigger" sides due to Kompany, being settled and style of play.

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