We’re not good enough to go up

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NewClaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:11 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:04 pm
When you say "dropping points" can't we just accept that teams don't just roll over?
It’s a fair point that a game isn’t won after scoring.

And I think our biggest issue is that we just don’t look like scoring enough. Possession wise we look great but not really threatening enough in any game but Wigan.

If we’re not going to score more than once we need to be stronger at the back and to concede two last minute goals from WBA / Cardiff & squandering a two goal lead vs Blackpool is not good enough. Other teams are beating these sides with ease.

Conversely, our possession style gives me confidence we won’t lose many.

Spiral
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Spiral » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:14 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:11 pm
And I think our biggest issue is that we just don’t look like scoring enough.
Second highest scorers in the division, only two behind the leaders, and we started the season with only Barnes as a recognisable striker. We don't score enough? Aye, right.

We don't score enough to win, but that's a defensive problem.
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boatshed bill
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:15 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:11 pm
It’s a fair point that a game isn’t won after scoring.

And I think our biggest issue is that we just don’t look like scoring enough. Possession wise we look great but not really threatening enough in any game but Wigan.

If we’re not going to score more than once we need to be stronger at the back and to concede two last minute goals from WBA / Cardiff & squandering a two goal lead vs Blackpool is not good enough. Other teams are beating these sides with ease.

Conversely, our possession style gives me confidence we won’t lose many.
All fair points, though I would point out that "beating these sides with ease" hasn't put many clubs above 4th in the table.

RVclaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:17 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:11 pm
Other teams are beating these sides with ease.
Other sides haven’t had 16 new players in with 13 out, as well as a complete revamp in playing style. I’m not sure why expectations are that we should be beating ‘these sides’ with ease at this stage. Cardiff had like 2 players on international duty btw compared to our 10, do you think that matters or we should still be winning 5-0 regardless?

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:17 pm

Spiral wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:14 pm
Second highest scorers in the division, only two behind the leaders, and we started the season with only Barnes as a recognisable striker. We don't score enough? Aye, right.

We don't score enough to win, but that's a defensive problem.
I agree. We obviously score enough.

And if you look at the expected goals, we look pretty much bang on. This means we're not due a lull in chances and goals - we should expect to keep this up.
Last edited by jen1066 on Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

groove
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by groove » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:18 pm

We're 4th in the table after 11 games. Ridiculous, reactionary thread title. And I'm as frustrated as anybody.
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Woodleyclaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:18 pm

Nonsense, we will go up but dropping points to poor sides is frustrating
We have the talent but these pointless international breaks don't help fluidity and momentum Things will turn round

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:19 pm

We need an experienced head in defence (like Mcgreal with Cahill). We are just so **** poor at the back.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Carwin261 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm

Thing that worries me is that we’ve only played 3 teams in the top half of the league.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm

Best tell Cardiff’s manager this btw as he’s just said we are the best team in the league
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RVclaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:23 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm
Thing that worries me is that we’ve only played 3 teams in the top half of the league.
Don’t let it worry you, so have Norwich and Sheffield

boatshed bill
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:25 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm
Thing that worries me is that we’ve only played 3 teams in the top half of the league.
So we haven't had chance to beat them yet ;)

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by BabylonClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:25 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm
Best tell Cardiff’s manager this btw as he’s just said we are the best team in the league
Really? Stream for 2nd half was awful for me so I can't really judge how we did but the first half was pretty pedestrian. To be fair CRdiff stuck to their game plan well

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:27 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:25 pm
Really? Stream for 2nd half was awful for me so I can't really judge how we did but the first half was pretty pedestrian. To be fair CRdiff stuck to their game plan well
He’s probably not judging off the one game like this thread title.

They beat Norwich at home too.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by roperclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:37 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:23 pm
People are allowed an opinion fatty.Get over it..
Having an opinion doesn’t make you wrong though

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:38 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm
Thing that worries me is that we’ve only played 3 teams in the top half of the league.
But when you look closer, you'll realise the reason this number isn't higher, is because we took points off teams, making them currently placed lower in the table.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:39 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:22 pm
Best tell Cardiff’s manager this btw as he’s just said we are the best team in the league
Not heard/seen the interview, but it wouldn't surprise me. I've not seen a better team than us this season.
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NewClaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:40 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:17 pm
Other sides haven’t had 16 new players in with 13 out, as well as a complete revamp in playing style. I’m not sure why expectations are that we should be beating ‘these sides’ with ease at this stage. Cardiff had like 2 players on international duty btw compared to our 10, do you think that matters or we should still be winning 5-0 regardless?
No, not at all.

Reasons you’ve provided are very sensible, but just explain why I don’t think we’ll go up. Hopefully next year.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by fatboy47 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:45 pm

Drawing your away games and winning at home means automatic promotion.

And that appears to be what we've started to do.

Nothing to fear in this division.....apart from us...we're starting to get our sh1t together.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:49 pm

fatboy47 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:45 pm
Drawing your away games and winning at home means automatic promotion.

And that appears to be what we've started to do.

Nothing to fear in this division.....apart from us...we're starting to get our sh1t together.
Always nice to come on when some positive folk are about!

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:00 pm

groove wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:18 pm
We're 4th in the table after 11 games. Ridiculous, reactionary thread title. And I'm as frustrated as anybody.
Certainly wasn’t intended to be rediculous or reactionary groove. Actually what I expected at the start of the season and nothing I’ve seen since, with only 4 wins in 11 and 6 draws has changed that.

Would be the happiest fan on here if we turn this around and start to be more decisive and less leaky though.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by wbfc » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:04 pm

I think we are doing really well... there is not much to beat in thus league but for obvious reasons we are not as good as we were...

To me the only disappointments are McNally does not seem good enough at the moment to feature and Twine has not played due to injury

Realistically Jay might struggle to score 20 goals...the goalkeeper is a downgrade on what we have been used to in the last 10 years ..and we lack a top draw centre half allow TBH is doing well...

Very difficult to say good enough or not at moment...I did not expect us to get promoted before the season I am more positive than I was ..

A draw at Cardiff and Preston before are not bad results...if we had not conceded late on then we would not have had the usual overreaction ...although when we win we get an overreaction then as well... sometimes we even get Overreaction to a goal scored or to a goal conceded...I am not sure we are any more less or likely to go up after the game than we were before it ..but I bet if we lose or do not beat the Potters then that will be too much for some

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:23 pm

Pleasantly surprised to see we’re still 4th.

Yeah, there’s a few details to tighten up on, but Kompany will be all over it.

I have no doubt that we’re going straight back up.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by warksclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:34 pm

Already posted above, main point being we need to play our strongest back four. What I would say this is the weakest Championship I have seen in many years, with many "ordinary" sides from whom we should be taking 3 points not one.Sort the defence and those one points become 3

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Vintage Claret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:34 pm

As a Burnley fan I want us to win every game yet I'm not too bothered if we go up or not this season, enjoying the Championship experience a lot more than the last couple of seasons in the Sky TV league, sorry, Premier League.

As for today, we didn't play well but still earned a draw away at Cardiff, I'll take that.
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NewClaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:40 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Already posted above, main point being we need to play our strongest back four. What I would say this is the weakest Championship I have seen in many years, with many "ordinary" sides from whom we should be taking 3 points not one.Sort the defence and those one points become 3
Fair point, this.

Maybe one for VK to bring Beyer on for Maatsen and play Charlie wide left.

Seemed to have more of a go at the wingers/forwards in the post match interview though.

jen1066
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:34 pm
As a Burnley fan I want us to win every game yet I'm not too bothered if we go up or not this season, enjoying the Championship experience a lot more than the last couple of seasons in the Sky TV league, sorry, Premier League.

As for today, we didn't play well but still earned a draw away at Cardiff, I'll take that.
Similar thoughts. I'm confident we are better than what the league suggests. And we'll come good.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Sozturf7 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:53 pm

Win at home draw away, that's the way to do it.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Hibsclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:04 pm

Today was a classic game after an international break when a few have been away. We are clearly a work in progress and have lost once all season, unluckily. We are in a great position to get better and better throughout the season with the odd blip. If the blips are a few last minute equalisers away from home we are not far away.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by alf_resco » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:05 pm

If, on the 1st of June, freshly-relegated, managerless and with a load of aged out-of-contract players, someone had told me that on Oct 1st we'd be fourth in the Champ, having lost only one game and VK was our manager, I would (a) never have believed you and (b) bitten your hand off.
We're in great shape.
Some folk need to see the bigger picture.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:09 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:40 pm
Fair point, this.

Maybe one for VK to bring Beyer on for Maatsen and play Charlie wide left.

Seemed to have more of a go at the wingers/forwards in the post match interview though.
It was absolutely the wingers and forwards today that weren’t at it so he’s spot on.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NickBFC » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:27 pm

I was really disappointed with the performance and result today. It's such an up and down league though, playing poorly away and picking up a point isn't a disaster in the scheme of things. I think we will get stronger as the season progresses - we just need to try and keep within arms length of the top 2 in mean time. A very solid start still.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:32 pm

Did anyone seriously expect us to get promoted this season?

To achieve the play offs would be an amazing achievement, I’d of snapped your hands off for 10th when the season started.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:36 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:32 pm
Did anyone seriously expect us to get promoted this season?

To achieve the play offs would be an amazing achievement, I’d of snapped your hands off for 10th when the season started.
Did?
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ksrclaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:40 pm

Classic knee jerk reflex reaction, this thread. Not judging, I've posted silly things in haste after a game many a time over the years, but the overall picture shows us in 4th, having lost only once so far, and playing well more often than not. I think that makes us good enough to go up, considering it's only 1st October. It certainly doesn't make us not good enough, anyway.

We must find a way to get more height and strength into the side, though. I think we need to lose one of the full backs for Beyer, and either have Beyer at RB or Charlie Taylor to LB. We're too soft in our own box and that needs sorting.
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jen1066
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:43 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:40 pm
Classic knee jerk reflex reaction, this thread. Not judging, I've posted silly things in haste after a game many a time over the years, but the overall picture shows us in 4th, having lost only once so far, and playing well more often than not. I think that makes us good enough to go up, considering it's only 1st October. It certainly doesn't make us not good enough, anyway.

We must find a way to get more height and strength into the side, though. I think we need to lose one of the full backs for Beyer, and either have Beyer at RB or Charlie Taylor to LB. We're too soft in our own box and that needs sorting.
Your first paragraph is what I keep trying to put across.

I wouldn't be putting Beyer at right back though. VK needs to make a bigger call at left back.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Caballo » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:46 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:10 pm
Will be happy to be proved wrong in May, but we’ve only scored more than once in 4 games this season. It’s just not good enough. Sense we think we’re a lot better than we are.

Won’t lose many but don’t think we’ll win many either, and certainly not enough to go up.
It's the very beginning of October, wind your neck in you melt.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by BigJay » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:49 pm

Some of the moaners on here beggar belief. If we are in the top six at the half way mark I wouldn't rule us out, but there are question marks and the team need time to bed in. We've had a massive overhaul and it's a lot to ask bringing in so many new players, losing key players and expecting us to rip up the championship. It's been frustrating at times, today and Preston giving away late goals, not killingvteams off, etc but for me it's about the second half of the season and keeping within the top 6 until then

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Burnley1989 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:07 pm

groove wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:18 pm
We're 4th in the table after 11 games. Ridiculous, reactionary thread title. And I'm as frustrated as anybody.
I’ve a decent friend group of Burnley fans and not 1 has complained

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by warksclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:26 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:40 pm
Fair point, this.

Maybe one for VK to bring Beyer on for Maatsen and play Charlie wide left.

Seemed to have more of a go at the wingers/forwards in the post match interview though.

I think a back four of Roberts THB Beyer and Taylor would be as strong as anything in this Division, and would love to see VK adopting this in the next few games.Our marking at corners and set plays is not up to promotion standard

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:30 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:26 pm
I think a back four of Roberts THB Beyer and Taylor would be as strong as anything in this Division, and would love to see VK adopting this in the next few games.Our marking at corners and set plays is not up to promotion standard
Tbh, I don’t know what the answer is.

I do t think we do too much wrong at the back but concede. But then do t think we do enough going forward to convince we’ll score enough, regularly, to win enough games for promotion.

If you play CT at LB it’s a more defensive set up as I can’t see him playing better than Maatsen going forward. But then if we tightened up at the back it mightn’t matter.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:48 pm

We aren’t good enough for promotion was openly obvious from day 1, you can’t just experiment so much & shed so much quality & replace with inferior & expect any different even in a division lower you retain 1 or 2 you are more or less ensured, it’s very noticeable after Norwich’s stuttering start (widely remarked that the possible promotion candidates weren’t at the races) & some wise different remarks were offered transpire to where we are now.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by IWOODLOVETT » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:50 pm

So far we’ve looked good, but vulnerable late in games. All this on perfect pitches during fine late summer weather.

“What will happen on cold, wet winter nights ?” is a familiar argument that we used to use about rival club’s foreign players. I think that we now should ask this question about our own team. Some of our recent opponents with their ‘robust’ more direct styles look to me to be better equipped for dealing with bad playing conditions.

Perhaps one thing in our favour may be the World Cup break followed by the January transfer window. So I think that at present we have a very talented squad capable of going up, but significantly it lacks height and power both in midfield and at the back.

If this is not addressed in January IMO the chickens will come home to roost when the New Year’s potentially bad weather kicks in and it is this frailty that will mean bad results and a mid-table position come season’s end.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:50 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Already posted above, main point being we need to play our strongest back four. What I would say this is the weakest Championship I have seen in many years, with many "ordinary" sides from whom we should be taking 3 points not one.Sort the defence and those one points become 3
Well playing your ‘strongest’ back four wouldn’t have turned one point into three today would it as Maatsen wouldn’t have been there to provide the assist for our goal. He’s also clearly one of our most talented players and needs to be in the side.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:13 pm

Spiral wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:14 pm
Second highest scorers in the division, only two behind the leaders, and we started the season with only Barnes as a recognisable striker. We don't score enough? Aye, right.

We don't score enough to win, but that's a defensive problem.
Got to disagree here.
Like I’ve said above we had a glut of goals against Blackpool and Wigan but for rest I think we’ve really struggled in general with the amount of the ball we’ve had.

To counter that, it’s pretty much a brand new squad and I think the cohesion will come with time.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by KRBFC » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:17 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:17 pm
Other sides haven’t had 16 new players in with 13 out, as well as a complete revamp in playing style. I’m not sure why expectations are that we should be beating ‘these sides’ with ease at this stage. Cardiff had like 2 players on international duty btw compared to our 10, do you think that matters or we should still be winning 5-0 regardless?
It's not even the fact we're drawing alot of games, it's the manner imo. We should have sides like Hull/Luton at home under pressure to hang onto a draw, we were lacking any intensity/urgency. Where has the press from the front gone that we saw at Huddersfield? we scored then just camped our own penalty box, why? these sides are ******* sh!t yet we dropped deep for the final 30 minutes like we were away at Anfield. We are poor in both boxes but have considerably better players than other teams so sometimes we'll score a few (like Wigan away). Preston we spent the entire game passing in midfield with zero urgency/intensity.

I trust VK to get it right, I've liked the football generally so far. Frustrating to see us take off the handbrake and coast for large spells in games though. Push up the pitch and just go for it, we cannot defend, just attack. VK needs to figure out his best 11 too, not sure forcing Brownhill into a 10 role really works.

KRBFC
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by KRBFC » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:20 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:26 pm
I think a back four of Roberts THB Beyer and Taylor would be as strong as anything in this Division, and would love to see VK adopting this in the next few games.Our marking at corners and set plays is not up to promotion standard
but then we're even weaker offensively, which we aren't exactly great at, are we? Maatsen simply has to play in this system, the freedom the LB is given to stay high and wide wouldn't suit Taylor anyway. Maatsen isn't in the team for his defensive capabilities, he's there to provide width and an attacking threat, to create goals like he did today.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:31 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:13 pm
Got to disagree here.
Like I’ve said above we had a glut of goals against Blackpool and Wigan but for rest I think we’ve really struggled in general with the amount of the ball we’ve had.

To counter that, it’s pretty much a brand new squad and I think the cohesion will come with time.
The Wigan and Blackpool games definitely mask the goals for. Milwall took us 60 minutes to score and Bristol I forget but it was later on in the second.

I hope others are right and everything “clicks” as people keep saying it will, but a quarter of the season in I feel we’re a way off a promotion team.

I’m happy for this thread to be bumped in May for every one to rub my face in it. Nobody will be happier than me to be proved wrong. Just how I see things after a quarter of the season.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:33 pm

Isn't it amazing that these 2nd tier clubs don't just lie down and let us batter them.
some of you need a reality check.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:34 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:31 pm
The Wigan and Blackpool games definitely mask the goals for. Milwall took us 60 minutes to score and Bristol I forget but it was later on in the second.

I hope others are right and everything “clicks” as people keep saying it will, but a quarter of the season in I feel we’re a way off a promotion team.

I’m happy for this thread to be bumped in May for every one to rub my face in it. Nobody will be happier than me to be proved wrong. Just how I see things after a quarter of the season.
I’ll be honest I’m not sure what we are yet as we have so many untried players.
From what I’ve seen we have the makings of a really good team but I think it’s going to take time.
With the amount of the ball we see each game I think we should be scoring more.

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