We’re not good enough to go up

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NewClaret
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:17 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:49 pm
My criticism would be that whilst we bring on attacking players, I wouldn’t say that we really go for the second goal. We have a tendency to sit back on a one goal lead. The tempo drops, the whole team drops back and we seem happy to let the other team have possession. Whether this is intentional and instructed by VK or whether it’s just a failing of the players on the pitch remains to be seen.

We’re such a good possession side, and have such an obvious chink in our armour defensively that I think our best form of defence is to out-football the opposition, which we know we’re capable of - although yesterday was an off-day.
I think what it is Rileybobs, is that teams are conceding possession to us because they’ve set up to. When we score they come at us and we’re not as good comparatively when teams push us and don’t let us play.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:23 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:16 pm
Whether automatic promotion is achievable or not will also depend largely on what the other top teams, notably Sheff Utd and Norwich do. At their current trajectory we will need to amass 97 points to win automatic promotion, at over 2.25 points per game this seems extremely unlikely to me.
Of course one of these teams, or maybe both, may not keep up this pace.

But whilst being in the top 6 in January would be ok, if we’re 12 points off the top two then we’ll very likely have left ourselves too much to do. Important that we get better at seeing these games out as we’ve dropped too many points from very strong positions this season, and not won many from poor positions.
I think you've just managed to cover every single angle in a single post.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:25 pm

jen1066 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:25 pm
Every single week, all I keep hearing is
"These will be a tough team"
"Toughest game of the season so far"
"A point will be a good result"

My thinking is that we're the best team in this division and we should be expecting a win against any side - I don't care who it is.
This is an interesting view because I do think we have the best squad in the league but also have no confidence we’ll beat anyone tbh.

I’m not even confident about Stoke!! :? :? :(

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:32 pm

jen1066 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:23 pm
I think you've just managed to cover every single angle in a single post.
Sorry, I don’t follow?

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:16 pm
Whether automatic promotion is achievable or not will also depend largely on what the other top teams, notably Sheff Utd and Norwich do. At their current trajectory we will need to amass 97 points to win automatic promotion, at over 2.25 points per game this seems extremely unlikely to me.
Of course one of these teams, or maybe both, may not keep up this pace.

But whilst being in the top 6 in January would be ok, if we’re 12 points off the top two then we’ll very likely have left ourselves too much to do. Important that we get better at seeing these games out as we’ve dropped too many points from very strong positions this season, and not won many from poor positions.
Spot on Rileybobs.

Unless Norwich/Sheff U drop off, the autos are done because our form is sliding behind them, not catching them.

We’re still doing much better than I expected and I’m loving the new style, but we’re just not clinical enough to be competing right at the top.

Suppose Jan may provide an opportunity to change that and I do sense Twine could really impress in this team.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:32 pm
Sorry, I don’t follow?
Saying you’ve nailed the debate mate.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by pushpinpussy » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:43 pm

When someone posts a very critical comment,20 minutes after a game, especially after we conceded so late, I rarely take notice of the comments. The person is obviously a drama queen who needs to wait 24 hours and sit on things before posting whilst he is still seething from the result. Grow up.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:43 pm
When someone posts a very critical comment,20 minutes after a game, especially after we conceded so late, I rarely take notice of the comments. The person is obviously a drama queen who needs to wait 24 hours and sit on things before posting whilst he is still seething from the result. Grow up.
Sorry, I’ll remember to post the same thing 24 hours after the game in future.

Weird that people can’t stand an opinion and have to resort to personal insults, in my opinion.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:55 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm
Weird that people can’t stand an opinion and have to resort to personal insults, in my opinion.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by pushpinpussy » Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm
Sorry, I’ll remember to post the same thing 24 hours after the game in future.

Weird that people can’t stand an opinion and have to resort to personal insults, in my opinion.
But you would have had time to think about things before making rash stupid comments and making yourself look foolish when we are 4th in the league and lost only once all season. Seriously I’m not sure if you are a teenager but take some advice from someone a bit older. Before you press send, count to 100 or maybe in your case wait 24 hours

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Cooclaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:47 pm

‘Never make permanent decisions on temporary emotions’

This should be pinned to the top of the board on a sticky!

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:53 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm
But you would have had time to think about things before making rash stupid comments and making yourself look foolish when we are 4th in the league and lost only once all season. Seriously I’m not sure if you are a teenager but take some advice from someone a bit older. Before you press send, count to 100 or maybe in your case wait 24 hours
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Coming from someone who lies about being in Marbella on holiday… pass me a San Miguel…

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by houseboy » Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:14 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:06 pm
We've yet to play any of the other sides from the current top six
Four of them to play before WC break
That will give us a more realistic idea on how good, or not, we are
No it won’t. We’ve played teams from the top six already, just not the current top six. As I’ve stated before it’s far far too early to decide who are the teams to beat. Obviously Sheff Utd and Norwich maybe but people will and have said that about us. 11 games in means two wins and you’re moving up ten places. People seem to be forgetting we are 4th, not mid table. I don’t think we’ve ever looked like losing a game this season, even the one we did lose. We have weaknesses to iron out because we are a brand new team essentially but I believe we will be awesome by the new year.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Bosscat » Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:22 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm
But you would have had time to think about things before making rash stupid comments and making yourself look foolish when we are 4th in the league and lost only once all season. Seriously I’m not sure if you are a teenager but take some advice from someone a bit older. Before you press send, count to 100 or maybe in your case wait 24 hours
🤣🤣🤣 don't you have a murderer to represent 🤣🤣🤣
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Ampth7 » Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:50 pm

Things to sort if we are to finish in top 2 in my opinion.

Defence - not enough clean sheets as of yet and we look vulnerable to crosses in both open play and set pieces along with the occasional cock up when in possession in our defensive third/half of the pitch.

Game management - we completely lost control of the game yesterday for the last 20-30 mins as they pressed higher up the pitch. In the end we weren’t able to manage this stage of the game very well at all and despite their lack of quality it increasingly started to feel like their chance was coming, which it did. When we did win it back in our half I would have liked us to pass the ball much the same as we had done for large parts of the game instead of lumping it forward to Barnes who couldn’t do anything with it.

Injuries - I’m not saying that Twine will be the difference when he returns but I do think that a playmaker/no 10 who can make something from nothing on a regular basis will make a huge difference. I think Westy and Churlinov coming back will also really help.

With that in mind, I can’t see any reason why we can’t finish in the top 2 this season but then again there are several other teams who will be thinking the same.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by houseboy » Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:57 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:17 pm
I think what it is Rileybobs, is that teams are conceding possession to us because they’ve set up to. When we score they come at us and we’re not as good comparatively when teams push us and don’t let us play.
Just wondering why a team would set up to wait till they go behind. If they are that confident surely they would play attack BEFORE they go behind? Unless they are of course afraid of us and are delighted with a draw. I’ve heard about this ploy before but it doesn’t make sense. I know we played like that in the PL but that’s because we WERE afraid most of the time.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:58 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:22 pm
🤣🤣🤣 don't you have three businesses to run 🤣🤣🤣
Fixed that for you Bosscat 🫢🫢🫢
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Bosscat » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:03 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:58 pm
Fixed that for you Bosscat 🫢🫢🫢
👍 cheers NC 😁
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by NewClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:06 pm

houseboy wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:57 pm
Just wondering why a team would set up to wait till they go behind. If they are that confident surely they would play attack BEFORE they go behind? Unless they are of course afraid of us and are delighted with a draw. I’ve heard about this ploy before but it doesn’t make sense. I know we played like that in the PL but that’s because we WERE afraid most of the time.
I don’t think they’re setting up to go behind. More contain us to try and get a point or maybe nick something and bag a win. Then when we score they have to come at us and we see more of their ability.

We’re being Burnley’d, which is ironic. We just don’t look capable of breaking down stubborn defences (enough times) yet imo. City have Haaland, KDB, Foden, Mahrez et al et al to turn the possession to goals but, stating the obvious, we don’t.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AlargeClaret » Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:07 pm

While I appreciate the OP is clearly hysterical, the fact we’re 4th and dominating possession while still gelling as a team ain’t so bad imo. Sure , there’s tweaking to be done and a couple of missing “ starters “ but we’re getting there . While this style is “ pretty “ its horrific for atmosphere and can be very frustrating for fans when it feels like we need to “ get it forward “
Pluses - some prem quality , good defence , more to come
Minus - real lack of chances leaving us exposed to limited but tough champ outfits .

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:37 am

We won't go up if we don't sort out a few problems, the defence isn't good enough, Maatsen is never a defender, Taylor needs to play left and Beyer in the centre, attacking we are all fart and no sh1t our midfield is brilliant but in the final 3rd we lack a cutting edge for all the possession we create next to nothing, we also for some reason after taking the lead stop attacking, Kompany makes substitutions for the sake of it most time's like for example 3 at once at Cardiff totally takes all the rhythm out of the team when you change almost a quarter of the team all at once.

If little thing's like these are sorted out then we will click and will almost end the season top 6, if not and we carry on like we are doing then these draws will come back to bite us and we'll finish between 10 and 14

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:05 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:37 am
If little thing's like these are sorted out then we will click and will almost end the season top 6, if not and we carry on like we are doing then these draws will come back to bite us and we'll finish between 10 and 14
If we carry on like we have been doing, surely we'd finish, *checks table*, 4th?
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by fatboy47 » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:27 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:05 am
If we carry on like we have been doing, surely we'd finish, *checks table*, 4th?


Or, using the current curve principle...errr...top.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:34 am

Still pretty impressive what we've achieved so far

Clearly still work to do, but I think we look one of the better sides in the division
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:03 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:05 am
If we carry on like we have been doing, surely we'd finish, *checks table*, 4th?
We would pick up around 72/76 point's so we'd scrape into the play-offs in 5th or 6th place probably 10/12 points shy of 4th

Don't get me wrong this with a brand new manager and brand new team 5th or 6th would be fantastic, its just frustrating when you watch us have all that possession but we don't dominant in the final 3rd if this all clicks we finish top 2, a good marker is what we do to a very very poor Stoke team on Wednesday because Watford battered them at Stoke

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by houseboy » Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:50 am

The truth is there is no way of knowing where we will finish. Speculation is a good pastime but doesn’t achieve anything. There is a possibility we won’t get better but even then that would make us odds on for a top six place given our current position. To drop down the table we would have to get worse. No one thinks that will happen it seems. Chances are we will improve with time which means we have even more chance of promotion than we do now. And then there are the missing players, some of whom we know nothing about. Is Twine going to come in and prove to be the magic ingredient for instance or is he going to flop at this level? And then there is the great unknown of the January window, who will come in then?
I personally see nothing but good this season but that’s just my view, but it seems there are more than a few extreme pessimists on here who aren’t quite thinking straight. We are a good side and teams are treating us with much respect and that says a lot.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Conroysleftfoot » Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:27 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:03 am
We would pick up around 72/76 point's so we'd scrape into the play-offs in 5th or 6th place probably 10/12 points shy of 4th

Don't get me wrong this with a brand new manager and brand new team 5th or 6th would be fantastic, its just frustrating when you watch us have all that possession but we don't dominant in the final 3rd if this all clicks we finish top 2, a good marker is what we do to a very very poor Stoke team on Wednesday because Watford battered them at Stoke
Don't think it will be easy against Stoke. Their players will be out to prove they are better than how they performed against Watford, they will also be glad to be away from home as it didn't take long for the fans to get on their backs on Sunday.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by andyh » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:08 pm

Shows how melodramatic this thread was. If we played 86 mins not 90 we would be walking this league now…. Still a very long way to go.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Pickles » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:10 pm

I've said it on another thread. Another week goes by and I'm still to see us play a side better than we are. Of course we have to make that count in terms of goals and points but there's a lot of dross in this league.
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by jen1066 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:11 pm

Pickles wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:10 pm
I've said it on another thread. Another week goes by and I'm still to see us play a side better than we are. Of course we have to make that count in terms of goals and points but there's a lot of dross in this league.
Overall, we're the best side in this division.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:12 pm

And we'll get better.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by tiger76 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:13 pm

Arguably we've not hit our full potential yet and despite that we're bang in the mix.

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:12 pm

Bump for the numpties to eat some humble pie
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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by Archer » Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:16 pm

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:37 am
We won't go up if we don't sort out a few problems, the defence isn't good enough, Maatsen is never a defender, Taylor needs to play left and Beyer in the centre, attacking we are all fart and no sh1t our midfield is brilliant but in the final 3rd we lack a cutting edge for all the possession we create next to nothing, we also for some reason after taking the lead stop attacking, Kompany makes substitutions for the sake of it most time's like for example 3 at once at Cardiff totally takes all the rhythm out of the team when you change almost a quarter of the team all at once.

If little thing's like these are sorted out then we will click and will almost end the season top 6, if not and we carry on like we are doing then these draws will come back to bite us and we'll finish between 10 and 14
Got it

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:54 am

Archer wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:16 pm
Got it
You feel better now

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:04 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:12 pm
Bump for the numpties to eat some humble pie
hindsight is a beautiful thing numpty

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:30 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:04 am
hindsight is a beautiful thing numpty
It’s not hindsight when all the signs were there that we were growing into a very good team that just needed time to gel after a massive summer rebuild.

It was negative nancies being over reactionary and throwing their toys out of the pram as per.

How can you say hindsight is a a beautiful thing after you predicted us to finish 10-14 when we were sat in 4th 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:15 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:30 am
It’s not hindsight when all the signs were there that we were growing into a very good team that just needed time to gel after a massive summer rebuild.

It was negative nancies being over reactionary and throwing their toys out of the pram as per.

How can you say hindsight is a a beautiful thing after you predicted us to finish 10-14 when we were sat in 4th 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
We'd won 4 of our first evelen league games and Maatsen didn't even look anything remotely like a defender so yes I'd say it was hindsight and at that point we definitely didn't look like growing into a very good team, that was my opinion at the time but some how you could see into the future and see something else, also I don't give a sh1te about your opinion on my quotes but there was a lot at the time of my posting saying almost the same yet you dig mine up.......bloody stoker :lol:

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:26 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:15 am
We'd won 4 of our first evelen league games and Maatsen didn't even look anything remotely like a defender so yes I'd say it was hindsight and at that point we definitely didn't look like growing into a very good team, that was my opinion at the time but some how you could see into the future and see something else, also I don't give a sh1te about your opinion on my quotes but there was a lot at the time of my posting saying almost the same yet you dig mine up.......bloody stoker :lol:
You quoted me first you imbecil - someone linked the thread and I just bumped it.

'Maatsen didn't even look anything remotely like a defender' maybe to the clueless amongst us but to anyone else could see that he was a bit of a Championship cheat code and that eventually the draws would turn into wins.

I just hope you aren't on here throwing your toys out along with the other bedwetters after a few tricky games in the PL next season

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:34 am

If you're going to try and be insulting at least know how to spell the word imbecile first :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: We’re not good enough to go up

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:44 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:34 am
If you're going to try and be insulting at least know how to spell the word imbecile first :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Clearly just a typo for missing an e off the end - as for you it's 'stalker' not 'stoker', unless you were inferring that I'm a locomotive engineer? :roll:

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