Benefit system to get a 10.1% pay increase

[ClaretCliff]

Here’s something that puzzles me. Perhaps someone can throw some light on it.

At peak covid the government broke all records to open the Nightingale Hospitals although they then remained nearly empty. Now the current NHS crisis seems to be caused by bed blocking whereby patients are not being discharged because there is nowhere for them to go. Why are we not opening nightingale hospitals for this, to effectively use them as convalescent homes. Anyone know??

[Inchy]

Have we now moved on to nursing homes, as opposed to care homes? Two different kinds of establishment.

Operations have always been cancelled... There were log jams of elderly people waiting to be discharged long before covid, due to assessments having to be done, both medical and financial.

Are they different really? I never knew that

[bpgburn]

If you get a Oz of green I'm pretty sure you can knock a few bags out & have some free for yourself. I'm not against the unemployed being on drugs life must get very boring without anything to occupy ones time but let's not pretend People are indoors watching Mary Poppins dvds & listening to carpenter CDs. People manage it however it's done by hook or crook it's done.

You're also not against nervous drivers having a spliff or a pint or two before driving as they (and us) would be safer on the roads with chilled out relaxed drivers. You are either trying way too hard to be controversial or you're a very troubled and sad individual with no grasp of reality.

[Inchy]

Here’s something that puzzles me. Perhaps someone can throw some light on it.

At peak covid the government broke all records to open the Nightingale Hospitals although they then remained nearly empty. Now the current NHS crisis seems to be caused by bed blocking whereby patients are not being discharged because there is nowhere for them to go. Why are we not opening nightingale hospitals for this, to effectively use them as convalescent homes. Anyone know??

They built a massive tent in the car park at st James’s and then took it down about 3 weeks later after never being used. Rumour has it it didn’t pass its fire safety but I don’t know if that’s true. Just a massive waste of money

[Nori1958]

Are they different really? I never knew that

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, or not... If not

Nursing homes, as the name suggests offer nursing care, and have more trained staff, and better facilities.... They also cost more

Care homes offer care, with limited medical expertise. Yes residents may have their own room, as you say, but share bathrooms, dinning rooms and living rooms with other vulnerable people.

[CombatClaret]

Here’s something that puzzles me. Perhaps someone can throw some light on it.

At peak covid the government broke all records to open the Nightingale Hospitals although they then remained nearly empty. Now the current NHS crisis seems to be caused by bed blocking whereby patients are not being discharged because there is nowhere for them to go. Why are we not opening nightingale hospitals for this, to effectively use them as convalescent homes. Anyone know??

Firstly it's staff that care for people, not beds. And we have a staff shortage. That why they remained mostly empty during covid.
Secondly, the building used were commercial and repurposed for a short national crisis eg: Excel Center, Harrogate Convention Center, the govt would have to buy or hire commercial buildings, and outfit and staff them at huge, huge expense. Cost-benefit would be nil.

[Inchy]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, or not... If not

Nursing homes, as the name suggests offer nursing care, and have more trained staff, and better facilities.... They also cost more

Care homes offer care, with limited medical expertise. Yes residents may have their own room, as you say, but share bathrooms, dinning rooms and living rooms with other vulnerable people.

I am being sarcastic because bringing the fact I said nursing home instead of care home really doesn’t change the issues so to say “oh we have changed to nursing homes now” was clearly flippant.

Nursing homes also have shared dining rooms and living areas. Ultimately both establishments offer residents they’re own room to isolate in, unlike a hospital. Also both cost a lot less than a hospital bed.

I’m not saying sending people back to nursing/care homes (most establishments offer both) is the ideal, I’m just saying it’s better than keeping people in hospital

[claretonthecoast1882]

If you get a Oz of green I'm pretty sure you can knock a few bags out & have some free for yourself. I'm not against the unemployed being on drugs life must get very boring without anything to occupy ones time but let's not pretend People are indoors watching Mary Poppins dvds & listening to carpenter CDs. People manage it however it's done by hook or crook it's done.

Wrong un

[Nori1958]

I am being sarcastic because bringing the fact I said nursing home instead of care home really doesn’t change the issues so to say “oh we have changed to nursing homes now” was clearly flippant.

Nursing homes also have shared dining rooms and living areas. Ultimately both establishments offer residents they’re own room to isolate in, unlike a hospital. Also both cost a lot less than a hospital bed.

I’m not saying sending people back to nursing/care homes (most establishments offer both) is the ideal, I’m just saying it’s better than keeping people in hospital

I don't think we'll ever agree

I just know, the one big mistake during covid, which all experts agree on was letting people with covid, either knowingly, or untested into care homes, it killed 1000s

Now covid may have changed, but the over 85s haven't, they are still frail, still catch infections easy and struggle to recover from them..... Let's at least learn something from previous mistakes

[Inchy]

I don't think we'll ever agree

I just know, the one big mistake during covid, which all experts agree on was letting people with covid, either knowingly, or untested into care homes, it killed 1000s

Now covid may have changed, but the over 85s haven't, they are still frail, still catch infections easy and struggle to recover from them..... Let's at least learn something from previous mistakes

If you are frail you don’t want to be in hospital. More chance of catching an infection there than anywhere else

[Healeywoodclaret]

Before criicising the unemployed it's worth considering why the benefits system (and unemployment) were created.

Different country now to what it was when Benefits were created. The question is do people on benefits feel hardship if they can't buy their Domino's Pizza or Nike trainers or can they still afford them comfortably?

[Nori1958]

If you are frail you don’t want to be in hospital. More chance of catching an infection there than anywhere else

Unfortunately, like the example you gave, if you break a hip, you've no choice
The choice that is available is not sending that person with covid back into an environment where 20 more people are suddenly subject to a risk which wasn't there beforehand

[Spijed]

Different country now to what it was when Benefits were created. The question is do people on benefits feel hardship if they can't buy their Domino's Pizza or Nike trainers or can they still afford them comfortably?

The hypocrisy of people complaining about the amounts those on benefits receive, yet were happy to receive generous payments whilst on furlough.

[Jamesy]

How has this thread survived this long? It is non football related and is just the usual argumentative stuff from posters who are never going to accept the others argument or vaguely agree with each other. Besides this, Sunak hasn’t categorically said yet that those on benefits will receive the CPI inflation rate. He said that he recognised the triple lock and would be fair to those on benefits.

[Lancasterclaret]

How has this thread survived this long? It is non football related and is just the usual argumentative stuff from posters who are never going to accept the others argument or vaguely agree with each other. Besides this, Sunak hasn’t categorically said yet that those on benefits will receive the CPI inflation rate. He said that he recognised the triple lock and would be fair to those on benefits.

You can't pull a thread that has all the hits from Jakub and every single weirdo on UTC on it

It would be cultural vandalism!

[Jakubclaret]

The hypocrisy of people complaining about the amounts those on benefits receive, yet were happy to receive generous payments whilst on furlough.

The difference being people on 1 side of the divide will end up repaying the furlong for all intent & purposes it's a loan disguised as something else the money comes from somewhere the public purse. The other side of the divide don't repay whilst the debt grows I think 1 side are more than entitled to grumble & I'd also suggest no hypocrisy is at play.

[boatshed bill]

Different country now to what it was when Benefits were created. The question is do people on benefits feel hardship if they can't buy their Domino's Pizza or Nike trainers or can they still afford them comfortably?

I'll put it differently; the benefit system wasn't put in place by the unemployed, it's a government strategy which is very much in use for economic reasons.

[nil_desperandum]

Different country now to what it was when Benefits were created. The question is do people on benefits feel hardship if they can't buy their Domino's Pizza or Nike trainers or can they still afford them comfortably?

But how different is it?
My father and father in law were both born in the early 1930s, so have lived almost 180 years between them, and were born well before the modern benefits system was established.
They've both worked down coal mines and in low paid factory jobs working shifts, and paid their NI - and done their National Service. They've brought up children who've all worked and paid into the system.
They're now on some benefits, but neither of them buys Nike trainers or orders Domino's Pizza.
This is why we have a benefits system and why they should be set at a decent level.

[fatboy47]

The difference being people on 1 side of the divide will end up repaying the furlong for all intent & purposes it's a loan disguised as something else the money comes from somewhere the public purse. The other side of the divide don't repay whilst the debt grows I think 1 side are more than entitled to grumble & I'd also suggest no hypocrisy is at play.

All the right words...

.... But not necessarily in the right order.

[evensteadiereddie]

[Greenmile]

Covid, Brexit, politics, Rowls being Rowls, Jakub being Jakub - I’m amazed (but happy) this thread has lasted as long as it has.

[MancunianClaret]

How on earth do you think football clubs can manage without zero hours contracts? Do you honestly believe they should pay the casual workers for two matches per week, all through the season? Because that's what it would amount to. If you can't employ casual workers, which is what zero hours contracts are, then costs of certain businesses will rise astronomically.

How about the hospitality industry? When they have a wedding on, they bring in the zero hours contract staff. Abolish that, and only the largest venues will be able to survive.

How do football clubs and hospitality businesses manage it in Europe, where zero hours contracts are illegal or heavily regulated?

I'll tell you how. Employers are forced plan properly and guarantee a minimum number of hours each week - e.g. let's say 10 hours - that allows the employee to plan and budget ahead (i.e. find additional hours elsewhere if they need to). What happens over here is they'll guarantee you nothing, or a very small number of hours, but if you don't make yourself available on the week they need 40 hours from you - they take you off the books. It's heavily weighted in favour of the employer and the taxpayer picks up the pieces.

[jojomk1]

They built a massive tent in the car park at st James’s and then took it down about 3 weeks later after never being used. Rumour has it it didn’t pass its fire safety but I don’t know if that’s true. Just a massive waste of money

They did the same thing at Preston Royal
Don't think it was ever used and has now been taken back down
Rumours were the cost was not far short of £1m

[Gaia]

If you get a Oz of green I'm pretty sure you can knock a few bags out & have some free for yourself. I'm not against the unemployed being on drugs life must get very boring without anything to occupy ones time but let's not pretend People are indoors watching Mary Poppins dvds & listening to carpenter CDs. People manage it however it's done by hook or crook it's done.

I agree Jakub that a minority may behave in this way but not the majority of unemployed

[CoolClaret]

I’d love to see a Country (from the outside may I add) governed by JakubClaret’s vision.

It would be a disastrous, dystopian society in the sort of mold of a ‘Carry On’ x ‘Monty Python’ x ‘Ripping Yarns’ x ‘Shameless’ World.

Handing bags of weed out to those on benefits & prescribing nervous drivers opioids - absolutely classic

[Gaia]

Could Jakub have done any worse than Liz Truss as PM? I don't think so.

[taio]

They did the same thing at Preston Royal
Don't think it was ever used and has now been taken back down
Rumours were the cost was not far short of £1m

The Nightingale at RPH was heavily used. It was taken down because it was only ever ever intended to be a short term service during Covid peaks.

[Big Vinny K]

Jakubs World :

Legalise drugs
Tax received on drugs

Those claiming benefits made to work or no benefits
These people get sacked in week one for being under the influence

Turn to crime as cannot get a job due to criminal record and need to fuel their drug habit
Eventually caught and face Jakub’s new public court

Prisons full so Jakub and his public committee hand out a sentence of sending the criminals back to work (breaking rocks etc)
Criminals back to work earning minimum wage
Get caught again under the influence

And repeat.

[Swizzlestick]

They did the same thing at Preston Royal
Don't think it was ever used and has now been taken back down
Rumours were the cost was not far short of £1m

It very much was used.

[ClaretCliff]

They did the same thing at Preston Royal
Don't think it was ever used and has now been taken back down
Rumours were the cost was not far short of £1m

I think that’s what happened with most of them. But given what is needed now, convalescent beds to clear hospital beds, why not use them again? They can obviously build or re-use buildings and equip them with beds and other equipment. I assume they need a lesser level of staffing than hospital beds. Military was used to set them up last time and I’m sure military medical staff could help run them. Surely things could be done if only for a limited period to alleviate pressure in hospitals. Patients are being held in ambulances because there are no spare beds because the beds(and staff) are caring for patients just waiting to be discharged.

I appreciate that others have said that the civic nightingale hospitals were not used, but why can they not be used as a holding station to care for those who no longer need to be in hospital but there is nowhere for them to go.

[Quickenthetempo]

The lowest benefit rising £7.40 a week has caused quite a reaction on here.

Food and drink have gone up 16% this year, so it's still a massive hardship for them to keep buying the things that keep them alive.

[Lancasterclaret]

The lowest benefit rising £7.40 a week has caused quite a reaction on here.

Food and drink have gone up 16% this year, so it's still a massive hardship for them to keep buying the things that keep them alive.

I think this is fundamental

People food bills are going up, and if you were struggling before, then you are worse off now

You have to be a certain type of person to exercise the whataboutery we've seen on this thread, and trust me boys and girls, its a terrible look

[Hipper]

The lowest benefit rising £7.40 a week has caused quite a reaction on here.

Food and drink have gone up 16% this year, so it's still a massive hardship for them to keep buying the things that keep them alive.

Most on benefits will get £1,050 from the energy and cost of living supports. Don't know what percent of income that represents for low income people.

The energy support ends in March and the benefit rises, if agreed (I've not seen that they've been agreed yet, just suggested) will start in April. It may well be that inflation will go down to 4% next spring according to one forecast, or up to 18% in another.

[bfcjg]

Just how though will we as a country last by out spending what we earn ? The tax the rich tax the bankers tax the energy companies cry will go to what ?
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

[Hapag Lloyd]

They did the same thing at Preston Royal
Don't think it was ever used and has now been taken back down
Rumours were the cost was not far short of £1m

Why would you post this when you have absolutely no idea if it was used or not ?

[Nori1958]

Jakubs World :

Legalise drugs
Tax received on drugs

Those claiming benefits made to work or no benefits
These people get sacked in week one for being under the influence

Turn to crime as cannot get a job due to criminal record and need to fuel their drug habit
Eventually caught and face Jakub’s new public court

Prisons full so Jakub and his public committee hand out a sentence of sending the criminals back to work (breaking rocks etc)
Criminals back to work earning minimum wage
Get caught again under the influence

And repeat.

A bit extreme I know..... But no getting away from it, there are people, always have been, who take the absolute p1zz out of the benefit system, any way to stop them, would benefit all society..

[fatboy47]

A bit extreme I know..... But no getting away from it, there are people, always have been, who take the absolute p1zz out of the benefit system, any way to stop them, would benefit all society..

Where do you stand on the way Hancock, Johnson and a few mates cleaned up the best part of a couple of billion dishing out pointless contracts to their buddies on the covid gravy train?

Genuinely interested BTW.... I'm always curious as to how the herd get hot under the collar at how a few scroats may blag a few coppers out of the system, yet can accept with equanimity how the fattest slobbering pigs can syphon millions with total unaccountability.

[Nori1958]

Where do you stand on the way Hancock, Johnson and a few mates cleaned up the best part of a couple of billion dishing out pointless contracts to their buddies on the covid gravy train?

Genuinely interested BTW.... I'm always curious as to how the herd get hot under the collar at how a few scroats may blag a few coppers out of the system, yet can accept with equanimity how the fattest slobbering pigs can syphon millions with total unaccountability.

I don't appreciate being called the herd

If you think it's only a few, read the court reports instead of the left wing rags.

[Big Vinny K]

A bit extreme I know..... But no getting away from it, there are people, always have been, who take the absolute p1zz out of the benefit system, any way to stop them, would benefit all society..

‘Any way to stop them’ ?

Really ? You think that whatever way you choose to stop them is justified ? Have a think about what you have just posted.
There is already something in place to stop people who are fraudulently taking benefits. It’s called the law. The fact that they are not all caught is because this government has cut the resources in every single area of the country and there are neither the people nor the systems to catch them and even if they did the justice system is on its knees so it would take years to prosecute them.

Quick question.
Do you think there are more people who take drugs who are on benefits than those who are in work and take drugs ?

Just be careful you do not become the parody of yourself that JC has.

[Mala591]

***Good quality advice alert*** One thing’s for sure, the state pension is worth bugger all so make sure you are putting at least 10% of your wage into a good quality pension scheme.

[Jakubclaret]

A bit extreme I know..... But no getting away from it, there are people, always have been, who take the absolute p1zz out of the benefit system, any way to stop them, would benefit all society..

You are wasting your time with the liberal do gooders.

[Nori1958]

‘Any way to stop them’ ?

Really ? You think that whatever way you choose to stop them is justified ? Have a think about what you have just posted.
There is already something in place to stop people who are fraudulently taking benefits. It’s called the law. The fact that they are not all caught is because this government has cut the resources in every single area of the country and there are neither the people nor the systems to catch them and even if they did the justice system is on its knees so it would take years to prosecute them.

Quick question.
Do you think there are more people who take drugs who are on benefits than those who are in work and take drugs ?

Just be careful you do not become the parody of yourself that JC has.

Calm down for goodness sake... Not once have I mentioned drugs, not once, so please don't try to say I did
I said that jackubs views were extreme
I said some people misuse the benefit system
I said anything to stop them doing so would benefit everyone

What on earth are you taking offence about?????

[boatshed bill]

A bit extreme I know..... But no getting away from it, there are people, always have been, who take the absolute p1zz out of the benefit system, any way to stop them, would benefit all society..

There are plenty of employed people stealing a wage.

[fidelcastro]

You are wasting you your time with the liberal do gooders.

Out of interest Jakub, what's the opposite of a do-gooder?

[fidelcastro]

There are plenty of employed people stealing a wage.

Most of them in parliament.

[fatboy47]

I bet the sight of all those loafers, junkies and blaggers queueing up at the food banks makes Jakubs blood boil.

[evensteadiereddie]

I wonder what he thinks about disability benefits....

[MancunianClaret]

This report provides estimates of fraud and error levels in the benefit system in Great Britain for the financial year 2021 to 2022. The main points from the report are: 4.0% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud and error. the estimated value of overpayments was £8.6 billion

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... %20billion

The amount of tax lost in Britain through non-payment, avoidance and fraud has increased to £35bn, according to official figures.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ers-due-to

Why are we upset with people on benefits again?

[Taffy on the wing]

......In Jakub's case the Daily Mail told him to be upset.

[Nori1958]

This report provides estimates of fraud and error levels in the benefit system in Great Britain for the financial year 2021 to 2022. The main points from the report are: 4.0% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud and error. the estimated value of overpayments was £8.6 billion

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... %20billion

The amount of tax lost in Britain through non-payment, avoidance and fraud has increased to £35bn, according to official figures.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ers-due-to

Why are we upset with people on benefits again?

Imagine what that 35bn,could be spent on....... Yet some on this very board, describe it as a few nicking a copper or two. And don't you dare suggest we should try and stop them.