Benefit system to get a 10.1% pay increase

[Jakubclaret]

When I come to Burnley the beer prices are cheaper than most other places, so they've already adapted

If it becomes that much of a problem the supermarkets & independent off licenses will benefit even more the pubs aren’t what there were back in the day before the smoking ban & this will be just another nail.

[Gaia]

Some will lose their jobs and not be able to afford to go out on £80 a week jobseekers, some will have houses reposessed ,some go bankrupt. Sad reality of this recession with high interest rates and inflation.

[Nori1958]

Some will lose their jobs and not be able to afford to go out on £80 a week jobseekers, some will have houses reposessed ,some go bankrupt. Sad reality of this recession with high interest rates and inflation.

When I bought my first house the interest rates were 18%......we managed, we adapted.... As did millions of others

[NewClaret]

Interesting New Claret-I think that Covid was such an unforseen disaster it made those that survived it realise that you just don't know whats round the corner. I am in this camp and made me think "enjoy life while you can". I am no better off than pre Covid, and infact retired just before it hit us, but today I would not think twice about going out for a meal,whereas a few years ago I almost needed to justify it. Or spending that bit more on holiday accomodation than I would have done two years ago.

Yes warks, I think that has definitely made an impact. COVID was horrendous so I am very much in the camp of enjoying life, making memories and taking nothing for granted - got my wife a ST for the first time when things opened up for those reasons, so we could go together - within the realms of affordability, of course.

By way of other indicators my firm has just posted second year of double digit growth (a multi national) and on a smaller scale my son washes pots in a local restaurant and says they’re full on random week nights I’d never even dream of going for a meal.

I’m not in any way downplaying the cost of living crisis. I know it must be having an awful effect on some, but also feel the economic forecasters and media spin this in a way that is sensationalist and unhelpful in creating fear & making it worse. I also think we’re bloody lucky, on balance, to have been supported through Covid with furlough, even have restaurants to go to given the small business support/eat out to help out et al, have avoided a complete economic catastrophe, and now have energy support limiting the impact of evil dictators decision to start a war.

Things could’ve turned out a lot worse. So if I have to pay more taxes to pay back in I’ll do it gladly and think those that are able should not be scared too much by the doom & gloom - keep supporting the economy by enjoying their lives.

[NewClaret]

When I bought my first house the interest rates were 18%......we managed, we adapted.... As did millions of others

Totally agree with this Nori.

Low interest rates have been one of the key drivers of house price inflation that benefits nobody (apart from maybe inheritors).

When they go up to 3% - still historically very low - the hysteria from the media is baffling. If people have mortgaged themselves up to the eyeballs and never considered the possibility that interest rates might go up, think they need to take a bit of accountability for that decision.

If house prices cool I’m sure there will be similar panic, but I think it’s long overdue and will be good news for more people than it’s bad.

[Nori1958]

Yes warks, I think that has definitely made an impact. COVID was horrendous so I am very much in the camp of enjoying life, making memories and taking nothing for granted - got my wife a ST for the first time when things opened up for those reasons, so we could go together - within the realms of affordability, of course.

By way of other indicators my firm has just posted second year of double digit growth (a multi national) and on a smaller scale my son washes pots in a local restaurant and says they’re full on random week nights I’d never even dream of going for a meal.

I’m not in any way downplaying the cost of living crisis. I know it must be having an awful effect on some, but also feel the economic forecasters and media spin this in a way that is sensationalist and unhelpful in creating fear & making it worse. I also think we’re bloody lucky, on balance, to have been supported through Covid with furlough, even have restaurants to go to given the small business support/eat out to help out et al, have avoided a complete economic catastrophe, and now have energy support limiting the impact of evil dictators decision to start a war.

Things could’ve turned out a lot worse. So if I have to pay more taxes to pay back in I’ll do it gladly and think those that are able should not be scared too much by the doom & gloom - keep supporting the economy by enjoying their lives.

There are some shocked that somehow covid help and energy help has to be paid back....... Keeps the moaners happy

[Gaia]

Reposessions are predicted to Increase as more mortgage deals come up for review. Maybe they will be more common in areas that have higher house prices like in the south east. OBR predicting 9 per cent house price fall next year.

[Gaia]

Sorry it's
House prices falling by 9% between now & Q3 2024

[Jakubclaret]

Reposessions are predicted to Increase as more mortgage deals come up for review. Maybe they will be more common in areas that have higher house prices like in the south east. OBR predicting 9 per cent house price fall next year.

The government should intervene & offer assistance with paying interest only straightaway instead of making people wait 39 weeks & offer it as a loan, they don't seem to have any problems paying private landlords £400/500+ for people renting on benefits but somebody with a mortgage who's worked all their life they'd see out on the street.

[Gaia]

Government cut back on paying interest on mortgages when on benefits. They put a charge on your property now if you sell up to claim it back. Yes but they don't worry about paying rent to private landlords.

[Gaia]

How did you know that Jakub, do you work in welfare rights.

[Jakubclaret]

How did you know that Jakub, do you work in welfare rights.

At 1 point previously I was worried about losing my job & I feared for my mortgage so I looked into it in the event that I did but I didn't. I know once upon a time you did get help but it changed it doesn't make sense to me it costs a lot more paying the landlord than paying the interest only for somebody who's contributed all their life's but for a short period of time fallen upon hard times.

[NewClaret]

Reposessions are predicted to Increase as more mortgage deals come up for review. Maybe they will be more common in areas that have higher house prices like in the south east. OBR predicting 9 per cent house price fall next year.

How many people do you know who’ve had their house repossessed? I’ve never seen bailiffs repossessing a house in my entire life. They’re actually really hard for banks to put in place and their absolute last resort.

Re: 9%, I hope it’s more, bet that only takes it back to pre-covid levels and I didn’t see people worrying that house prices were too low then

[NewClaret]

Yeah New but the recession hasn't properly hit us yet. The wealthier are not going to be affected as much so the higher end restaurants will be able to weather the storm. It's low wage towns like Burnley that will be affected more than more affluent places. May hit the club in terms of less merchandise sold.

I agree with this that recessions disproportionately impact less wealthy areas, but also by very fact we have quite so many bloody expensive restaurants nearby, there’s plenty of people with some brass about!

[warksclaret]

Yes warks, I think that has definitely made an impact. COVID was horrendous so I am very much in the camp of enjoying life, making memories and taking nothing for granted - got my wife a ST for the first time when things opened up for those reasons, so we could go together - within the realms of affordability, of course.

By way of other indicators my firm has just posted second year of double digit growth (a multi national) and on a smaller scale my son washes pots in a local restaurant and says they’re full on random week nights I’d never even dream of going for a meal.

I’m not in any way downplaying the cost of living crisis. I know it must be having an awful effect on some, but also feel the economic forecasters and media spin this in a way that is sensationalist and unhelpful in creating fear & making it worse. I also think we’re bloody lucky, on balance, to have been supported through Covid with furlough, even have restaurants to go to given the small business support/eat out to help out et al, have avoided a complete economic catastrophe, and now have energy support limiting the impact of evil dictators decision to start a war.

Things could’ve turned out a lot worse. So if I have to pay more taxes to pay back in I’ll do it gladly and think those that are able should not be scared too much by the doom & gloom - keep supporting the economy by enjoying their lives.

Can fully relate to your comments. Yes we count ourselves fortunate.And because we were confined to our homes for so long and restricted to where we could go, did not savings reach an all time high in this country, or so I read

[Nori1958]

When I bought my first house the interest rates were 18%......we managed, we adapted.... As did millions of others

This generation isn't the first to suffer high interest rates and rising costs, though it might be the first who are unable to cope with it.

[martin_p]

How many people do you know who’ve had their house repossessed? I’ve never seen bailiffs repossessing a house in my entire life. They’re actually really hard for banks to put in place and their absolute last resort.

Re: 9%, I hope it’s more, bet that only takes it back to pre-covid levels and I didn’t see people worrying that house prices were too low then

Surely we’re not doing the old ‘I haven’t seen it so it can’t be an issue’ thing? House repossessions are up over 100% compared to last year and those figures are from before Trussonomics sent interest rates soaring.

[Nori1958]

Totally agree with this Nori.

Low interest rates have been one of the key drivers of house price inflation that benefits nobody (apart from maybe inheritors).

When they go up to 3% - still historically very low - the hysteria from the media is baffling. If people have mortgaged themselves up to the eyeballs and never considered the possibility that interest rates might go up, think they need to take a bit of accountability for that decision.

If house prices cool I’m sure there will be similar panic, but I think it’s long overdue and will be good news for more people than it’s bad.

Exactly.... Well put

[NewClaret]

Surely we’re not doing the old ‘I haven’t seen it so it can’t be an issue’ thing? House repossessions are up over 100% compared to last year and those figures are from before Trussonomics sent interest rates soaring.

No, I was pointing out they are extremely rare, not that they don’t happen at all.

How many were there last year and the year before then? Just curious as to the size of the issue vs. the number of UK homeowners?

Tbh though, if you buy a house you can’t afford when rates rise very small amounts in historical terms, you’ve overcommitted.

[CombatClaret]

When I bought my first house the interest rates were 18%......we managed, we adapted.... As did millions of others

https://mojomortgages.com/mortgage-scor ... h-the-ages

OK Boomer.

[Loyalclaret]

According to The Money Charity :
4.2 PROPERTIES WERE REPOSSESSED EVERY DAY IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021 IN THE UK, OR ONE EVERY 5 HOURS AND 40 MINUTES.

27.9 MORTGAGE POSSESSION CLAIMS AND 18.0 MORTGAGE POSSESSION ORDERS WERE MADE EVERY DAY IN ENGLAND AND WALES IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021

[NewClaret]

https://mojomortgages.com/mortgage-scor ... h-the-ages

OK Boomer.

That chart right there shows exactly why we need them to come down and significantly.

[CombatClaret]

That chart right there shows exactly why we need them to come down and significantly.

That's a supply and demand issue.
Higher interest rates, pricing people out into every more expensive rental property, unable to save for deposits. I don't see how that helps.

[NewClaret]

According to The Money Charity :
4.2 PROPERTIES WERE REPOSSESSED EVERY DAY IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021 IN THE UK, OR ONE EVERY 5 HOURS AND 40 MINUTES.

27.9 MORTGAGE POSSESSION CLAIMS AND 18.0 MORTGAGE POSSESSION ORDERS WERE MADE EVERY DAY IN ENGLAND AND WALES IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021

Thanks. So assuming the October-December figures flowed through the full year, that’s 1533 repossessions per year.

There’s 14.6 million homeowners according to government data so 0.01% of houses repossessed.

Pick your headline:

HOUSE REPOSSESSIONS DOUBLE or

99.99% OF PEOPLE KEEP THEIR HOUSES OR COME TO SENSIBLE ARRANGEMENTS WITH LENDERS

[Big Vinny K]

How many people do you know who’ve had their house repossessed? I’ve never seen bailiffs repossessing a house in my entire life. They’re actually really hard for banks to put in place and their absolute last resort.

Re: 9%, I hope it’s more, bet that only takes it back to pre-covid levels and I didn’t see people worrying that house prices were too low then

Who told you that it’s hard for banks to put a repossession in place ?
I worked in the sector for more than 30 years and it’s not difficult at all.
Domestic and commercial mortgages are effectively a secured loan and that security is a charge over the property / land. If it was difficult to take possession of that property when all other routes to getting their loan repaid have been exhausted then there would be very few mortgages ever given out to people or businesses.
The process of getting to the stage of repossession is regulated. Hence the common description of “last resort” because there are certain stages you have to go through with the customer before repossession.
In terms of getting your loan repaid though (or a sizeable chunk of it) it’s by far the ‘best’ resort for the banks when it’s clear the person or business has little or no chance of repaying.

And just to clarify I am not saying this is a good or nice thing. It’s of course horrible for those losing their homes and we are unfortunately going to see an increasing number of repossessions in the next few years.

[NewClaret]

That's a supply and demand issue.
Higher interest rates, pricing people out into every more expensive rental property, unable to save for deposits. I don't see how that helps.

I don’t get the supply and demand argument, tbh. I do agree we should keep building new housing stock since like new cars, there always demand and need for replenishment, but I don’t see large parts of the population homeless.

There are enough houses for us to all live in.

And I heard an economist say Brexit/Covid had caused 600k migrant workers to leave the country/economy, so they must’ve been living somewhere.

House price rises have been driven by relatively low unemployment for successive decades and stupidly, stupidly low interests rates for years - 0%, I mean what?!? I get that’s a BOE decision, but the government should’ve tackled this by either raising stamp duty or influencing what banks could lend.

They didn’t so the gap between earnings and prices has become unsustainably high. It must end and as I say it will benefit far more than it negatively impacts when it does. So a good thing imo.

[dsr]

Who told you that it’s hard for banks to put a repossession in place ?
I worked in the sector for more than 30 years and it’s not difficult at all.
Domestic and commercial mortgages are effectively a secured loan and that security is a charge over the property / land. If it was difficult to take possession of that property when all other routes to getting their loan repaid have been exhausted then there would be very few mortgages ever given out to people or businesses.
The process of getting to the stage of repossession is regulated. Hence the common description of “last resort” because there are certain stages you have to go through with the customer before repossession.
In terms of getting your loan repaid though (or a sizeable chunk of it) it’s by far the ‘best’ resort for the banks when it’s clear the person or business has little or no chance of repaying.

And just to clarify I am not saying this is a good or nice thing. It’s of course horrible for those losing their homes and we are unfortunately going to see an increasing number of repossessions in the next few years.

I think you answered your own question with "when all other routes to getting their loan repaid have been exhausted". The final step after going through all the other routes may be easy; but is it an easy job to go through all the other routes?

[martin_p]

Thanks. So assuming the October-December figures flowed through the full year, that’s 1533 repossessions per year.

There’s 14.6 million homeowners according to government data so 0.01% of houses repossessed.

Pick your headline:

HOUSE REPOSSESSIONS DOUBLE or

99.99% OF PEOPLE KEEP THEIR HOUSES OR COME TO SENSIBLE ARRANGEMENTS WITH LENDERS

They’ve just about doubled this year and the figure is near 3000 now. Next year will likely be worst with interest rates going up fast.

[CombatClaret]

I don’t get the supply and demand argument, tbh. I do agree we should keep building new housing stock since like new cars, there always demand and need for replenishment, but I don’t see large parts of the population homeless.

There are enough houses for us to all live in.

There are just about enough houses for us all to live in when you include rentals. A big problem as I see it being as of the last count I could find from 2016, 5.5million adults or 11.2% of the population owned multiple properties.

Even the rental market seems out of whack because demand outstrips supply, especially in cities where there are jobs.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... ing-market

[NewClaret]

They’ve just about doubled this year and the figure is near 3000 now. Next year will likely be worst with interest rates going up fast.

Yes I realise that but it’s still a tiny tiny % of homeowners whichever way you look at it. So not a big issue contextually. And of course there will always be a very small % of people who have overcommitted or whose circumstances have changed dramatically, which is what you’re seeing play out with these numbers, but the vast majority will work it through and never be impacted/know someone who is.

My point really is listening to the scaremongering in the media you’d think it was a title wave and actually it’s a ripple.

[Big Vinny K]

I think you answered your own question with "when all other routes to getting their loan repaid have been exhausted". The final step after going through all the other routes may be easy; but is it an easy job to go through all the other routes?

Yes it pretty much is.
A lot of it is automated.
All of it is regulated.

If it was too difficult or too time consuming or too risky mortgage rates would be nearer to consumer lending rates.

A lot of financial institutions now outsource their debt management / delinquency departments to specialist organisations now too. A lot of this outsourcing has been done in the last couple of decades to reduce costs for Banks. Point being here is that these organisations will deal with customers from multiple financial institutions so the processes are even more automated / easier.

[NewClaret]

I think you answered your own question with "when all other routes to getting their loan repaid have been exhausted". The final step after going through all the other routes may be easy; but is it an easy job to go through all the other routes?

Thanks dsr, summarised what I was going to say.

And also agree with Big Vinny K that banks absolutely should have the right to repossess as a last resort, else we’d never be lent to, but in general come to sensible agreements like going interest only for a while, extending the term, etc until circumstances improve.

[atlantalad]

"According to The Money Charity :
4.2 PROPERTIES WERE REPOSSESSED EVERY DAY IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021 IN THE UK, OR ONE EVERY 5 HOURS AND 40 MINUTES.

27.9 MORTGAGE POSSESSION CLAIMS AND 18.0 MORTGAGE POSSESSION ORDERS WERE MADE EVERY DAY IN ENGLAND AND WALES IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021".



So, what are these figures showing? What were the figures for the preceding years 2017,- 2020. Are they lower or higher than the norm? Presenting data for a 1 year period is meaningless.

[Big Vinny K]

Thanks dsr, summarised what I was going to say.

And also agree with Big Vinny K that banks absolutely should have the right to repossess as a last resort, else we’d never be lent to, but in general come to sensible agreements like going interest only for a while, extending the term, etc until circumstances improve.

Going down the interest only route happens significantly less than it used to. The mortgage market has become very heavily regulated in the last 10 years with things like the Mortgage Market Review.
Unfortunately it’s sad to say that “sensible agreements” are also far less common place than they used to be.
The mortgage market is now driven by affordability and regulation primarily revolves around this.

[Clive 1960]

Quick question does the 10.1 increase effect all benefits as I only get one industrial injures benefit and wondering if it applies to my benefit.

[pushpinpussy]

So, it looks like I am going to be paying an extra 15k in taxes over the next 5 years to supplement the underclasses. What a country we live in. And that's why everyone from Europe and beyond wants to come here.

[Lancasterclaret]

This thread is an excellent advert for why threads shouldn't be deleted

Its a genuine eye opener for those of us who hope that all of us are willing to make sacrifices to make sure all of us do as well as we can do

[JohnMcGreal]

So, it looks like I am going to be paying an extra 15k in taxes over the next 5 years to supplement the underclasses. What a country we live in. And that's why everyone from Europe and beyond wants to come here.

That's not a very nice way to describe OAPs and working people on low income. As for your last sentence, that just isn't true.

[Loyalclaret]

"According to The Money Charity :
4.2 PROPERTIES WERE REPOSSESSED EVERY DAY IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021 IN THE UK, OR ONE EVERY 5 HOURS AND 40 MINUTES.

27.9 MORTGAGE POSSESSION CLAIMS AND 18.0 MORTGAGE POSSESSION ORDERS WERE MADE EVERY DAY IN ENGLAND AND WALES IN OCTOBER TO DECEMBER 2021".



So, what are these figures showing? What were the figures for the preceding years 2017,- 2020. Are they lower or higher than the norm? Presenting data for a 1 year period is meaningless.

I assisted with this part of question, I wasn't part of the debate or purposefully misrepresenting the data "Just curious as to the size of the issue vs. the number of UK homeowners?"

If I get a minute I'll look at last year's report for a comparison

[Jakubclaret]

That's not a very nice way to describe OAPs and working people on low income. As for your last sentence, that just isn't true.

As much as I don't agree with him his last sentence is completely true. The land of milk & honey is the perception to many outsiders wishing to come here & I don't think the authorities have ever been so busy stopping the floods & issuing influx returns.

[Nori1958]

This thread is an excellent advert for why threads shouldn't be deleted

Its a genuine eye opener for those of us who hope that all of us are willing to make sacrifices to make sure all of us do as well as we can do

What should we give up, that would genuinely help someone else now?

[Zlatan]

Zlatan - i really think you’ll like this guy, Gary Stevenson
Former trader for City Group but from humble beginnings in east London

https://youtu.be/ViY-zI3b5JQ

https://youtube.com/c/GarysEconomics

I've had time to watch these links now - you're right, I do like him and he clearly has the ability to "see" the big picture which unfortunately so many others just cant or refuse to see. Everyone should watch this and take on board what he describes regarding the economics of the country - you don't have to agree with him to understand what he says makes a large amount of sense.

Thanks for the links

[Big Vinny K]

As much as I don't agree with him his last sentence is completely true.

don't think the authorities have ever been so busy stopping the floods & issuing influx returns.

Once again words plucked from the English dictionary and randomly put into sentences in no discernible order.

[bpgburn]

So, it looks like I am going to be paying an extra 15k in taxes over the next 5 years to supplement the underclasses. What a country we live in. And that's why everyone from Europe and beyond wants to come here.

Look at me and how much money I earn by how much extra tax I will be paying, idiot!

Quite happy to represent and take the money of the "Underclasses" as a dodgy defence lawyer though eh?, Idiot!

[Billy Balfour]

Even when you ignore the couple of UTC resident trolls, this thread sure lived up to 'expectations'...

[martin_p]

So, it looks like I am going to be paying an extra 15k in taxes over the next 5 years to supplement the underclasses. What a country we live in. And that's why everyone from Europe and beyond wants to come here.

Actually you’re paying for all those that went on furlough. Taxes aren’t going up because of benefit claimants and pensioners.

[Jakubclaret]

Once again words plucked from the English dictionary and randomly put into sentences in no discernible order.

Once again criticising my grammar without addressing the substance of the post or articulating any sort of meaningful counter.

[Newcastleclaret93]

This thread is an excellent advert for why threads shouldn't be deleted

Its a genuine eye opener for those of us who hope that all of us are willing to make sacrifices to make sure all of us do as well as we can do

I appreciate that point of view. But how is it fair that people working considerably harder and more stressful roles (that can have real implications on peoples health and financials) have to pay considerably more tax as a percentage.

The only way they can make the system fair is by having absolutely everyone on the same rate of Tax.

[Lancasterclaret]

I appreciate that point of view. But how is it fair that people working considerably harder and more stressful roles (that can have real implications on peoples health and financials) have to pay considerably more tax as a percentage.

The only way they can make the system fair is by having absolutely everyone on the same rate of Tax.

I guess it all depends on whether you think its ok to let people really struggle in the 6th largest economy in the world Newcastle

[ClaretPete001]

Taxes are going up because of the debts incurred from the 2008 crash caused by third way politics and light touch regulation. Also because we have a dog of an economy that barely grows. Throw in furlough and the need to fund an increasingly ageing population and you have higher taxes.

It is not such a profoundly absurd argument for working class people to resent having to pay for the underclasses when the rich and the middle class work so hard to avoid it.

It is however the norm for the middle classes to accuse them of being dim and unethical when they complain about it.

The ideological norms in this country have always manifested themselves in this way. The fact that no one recognises their own ideological biases is what maintains the status quo.