Principles.

[Carwin261]

Good old woke England ,Kane’s going to get a booking for wearing LGBT armband ,so principles go out the window.

[Duffer_]

Good old woke England ,Kane’s going to get a booking for wearing LGBT armband ,so principles go out the window.

Are you criticisng England for wanting to wear the OneLove armband (your use of the term "woke")? Or, are you criticising them for not wearing it in the face of yellow cards? Or both? I'm sensing your pent up frustration but just not sure of the cause of it.

[claret2018]

Do we really need another thread on this mods?

[bpgburn]

I doubt it will be on here for long.....Hopefully!

[evensteadiereddie]

It's easy enough, pass the armband around the players every eight minutes or so, see if the ref's got the nads to book them all.
Should be a brilliant watch.

[Lancasterclaret]

Its not a good look if you've spend months saying you are going to do something then pulling it at the last minute because you might have a player booked

I say f**k it, lets see just how far FIFA are willing to go and take them on

[fatboy47]

It really is becoming the shabbiest sports event ever held in the world, since Hitlers Olympics.

Both in terms of the organisers and participants.

[Darthlaw]

Principles are sold to the highest bidder in football. This tournament's one positive contribution is to bring this to folk's attention, not that they'll remember that come January.

[claret54]

England are the last country to be pointing fingers. Fighting in Iraq, Syria, dealing inhumanly with asylum seekers, treating low paid workers badly.
Let's just play football.

[AGENT_CLARET]

England are the last country to be pointing fingers. Fighting in Iraq, Syria, dealing inhumanly with asylum seekers, treating low paid workers badly.
Let's just play football.

[Dark Cloud]

Like pretty much everyone else I was aghast at the totally bent and stupid decision to send the WC to Qatar and I would have had no problem with England refusing to get involved as it's a total sham and that's been compounded by the constant reneging on promises made in the original bid. I didn't watch yesterday, but I've definitely had a proper chuckle at what a total damp squib the opening game was, from Qatar (apparently) looking like a pub team from up Townely to most of the rent a crowd buggering off at half time. HOWEVER, let's remember that dozens of countries around the world have extremely dodgy human rights records and apparently most people had no problem with the Olympics in ridiculously oppressive China, the last WC in war hungry Russia and with England playing Iran later today when Iran are shooting civilians in the street and sending deadly drones to bomb the population of Ukraine literally as we speak. An awful lot of principles seem to have appeared from nowhere recently.

[HahaYeah]

England and Wales will not wear the pro-LGBTQ+ OneLove armband at the Qatar World Cup after FIFA threatened that captains could face an instant yellow card.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/11/21/e ... world-cup/

[IWOODLOVETT]

Okay, why expect the players to take the initiative. Why can’t the managers, physios and trainers etc. all wear the armbands? The cameras and commentators will pick up on it. Point made.

[summitclaret]

Why they wear the armbands and take them off before the actual kick off?

[Hipper]

Why don't all the England players wear them if they feel so strongly about it.....

[Lancasterclaret]

If you really give a s**t, you don't ask for permission

[evensteadiereddie]

They should all wear the armband and really take the pi$$ out of Fifa.

[Darthlaw]

Get the nine countries players to all wear the armband. When Fifa realises it doesnt have a tournament anymore and their revenue is at risk, they'll change their tune.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Why don't all the England players wear them if they feel so strongly about it.....

Because they don’t, if they did they wouldn’t be there.

[Lancasterclaret]

Because they don’t, if they did they wouldn’t be there.

And your evidence for that is......oh I forgot, evidence just isn't the same as "they all secretly agree with me"

[Les Lawrence]

Disappointed in BBC pundits for this game, Where is Rylan n or Alan Carr, or Claire Balding

[claretandy]

I would have had more respect for them if they wore it, we can take it for given now that they wouldn't take the knee either if they were to be booked. If you are going to virtue signal, don't soil yourself when you get challenged on it.

[Les Lawrence]

Also not happy with a lack of ginger haired players. Are they being overlooked because of there hair colour? Justice for gingers armbands?

[evensteadiereddie]

I would have had more respect for them if they wore it, we can take it for given now that they wouldn't take the knee either if they were to be booked. If you are going to virtue signal, don't soil yourself when you get challenged on it.

True that.
Now they're just appearing to be as gutless, thick and pathetic as those who are happy to ignore these issues.

[claretandy]

see, it's not that difficult ...

[2 Bee Holed]

England are the last country to be pointing fingers. Fighting in Iraq, Syria, dealing inhumanly with asylum seekers, treating low paid workers badly.
Let's just play football.

I thought it was a British army fighting in those countries. I hadn't realised it was an English army.

[fidelcastro]

Alex Scott to be arrested, anyone?

[Darthlaw]

Alex Scott to be arrested, anyone?

No, shes just been given a yellow card though.

[fidelcastro]

No, shes just been given a yellow card though.

[evensteadiereddie]

Oooh, I wouldn't mind taking down her particulars...
Snarf, Snarf, erk, erk.


For the nutters like Jakub and Co. willing to pounce, that's a joke.
Post modern irony and all that.

[fidelcastro]

Oooh, I wouldn't mind taking down her particulars...
Snarf, Snarf, erk, erk.


For the nutters like Jakub and Co. willing to pounce, that's a joke.
Post modern irony and all that.

I find her very arresting too!

[NottsClaret]

I like to take the opposite stance to FIFA on everything. But maybe like a stopped clock, they're right here.

Take it all out, it causes more problems than it solves and entrenches people's positions rather than brings them together. Whether it's poppies, rainbows, taking a knee or anything else. Just let sport be sport, not everything has to be a lesson or a statement.

[evensteadiereddie]

And, maybe like the stopped clock you mention, you're wrong...

[AfloatinClaret]

And, maybe like the stopped clock you mention, you're wrong...

He'll be right twice a day... I'd settle for achieving that.

[yTib]

victoria and skinner.

[claretandy]

Iran players not singing their national anthem, that's a proper protest.

[tiger76]

Iran players not singing their national anthem, that's a proper protest.

Yes fair does to them for that especially given the Iranian regime aren't known for being particularly lenient to dissent.

[Bigbopper]

Some Senegal fans wearing white face paint,

[evensteadiereddie]

And some Dutch fans wearing orange face paint,

[No Ney Never]

Players boots, each sporting one of the 11 colours of the rainbow, not much FIFA could do about that.
Physio could carry a rainbow bag.
Goalkeeper could wear rainbow gloves.
Players with a temporary tattoo of a rainbow on their cheek.
There's plenty they could do without getting booked if they are really so bothered.

I agree with the below quote from NottsClaret;
Whether it's poppies, rainbows, taking a knee or anything else. Just let sport be sport, not everything has to be a lesson or a statement.

[Bosscat]

I find her very arresting too!

Off the Cuffs humour ... I like it

[Spiral]

Gutless cowards.

FIFA has demanded Belgium change their kit and remove the word 'love' which appears under the number. It's ostensibly something to do with an Adidas range, but it is being viewed as provocative. This is Qatar running the WC, not merely hosting it. It's a regional power play by making western nations by proxy of FIFA bend to their will.

Congratulations everyone, while you're all there complaining about football becoming too political, you missed the part where football was quite blatantly sold into political slavery. The reason you protest and become political is to push back, but apparently a yellow card is too grave. So instead, you cower, and send a signal to every gay, lesbian, bi and trans person in England that you aren't willing to stand up for them, aren't willing to make the tiniest of sacrifices to signal solidarity, that your support for LGBT is contingent, and this allows the idea to seep in that your endorsement of campaigns and support is totally insincere, and you destroy your credibility in one foul swoop.

Meanwhile, the Iranians now face imprisonment, possibly even death depending how paranoid the Iranian regime becomes, upon return to their country for showing solidarity with their own people by refusing to sing the national anthem. Truly, truly disappointed at how gutless those seven countries (England, Wales, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium) who were to wear the One Love armband have been in the face of the slightest pressure. We can expect more of this in 2030 when after Saudis buy the world cup, because nobody is willing to do what is necessary: turn the game into an absolute farce to show you won't be pushed around.

[bumba]

England are the last country to be pointing fingers. Fighting in Iraq, Syria, dealing inhumanly with asylum seekers, treating low paid workers badly.
Let's just play football.

The fact we take asylum seekers in and give them what we give them is above 90% of countries

[Newcastleclaret93]

Gutless cowards.

FIFA has demanded Belgium change their kit and remove the word 'love' which appears under the number. It's ostensibly something to do with an Adidas range, but it is being viewed as provocative. This is Qatar running the WC, not merely hosting it. It's a regional power play by making western nations by proxy of FIFA bend to their will.

Congratulations everyone, while you're all there complaining about football becoming too political, you missed the part where football was quite blatantly sold into political slavery. The reason you protest and become political is to push back, but apparently a yellow card is too grave. So instead, you cower, and send a signal to every gay, lesbian, bi and trans person in England that you aren't willing to stand up for them, aren't willing to make the tiniest of sacrifices to signal solidarity, that your support for LGBT is contingent, and this allows the idea to seep in that your endorsement of campaigns and support is totally insincere, and you destroy your credibility in one foul swoop.

Meanwhile, the Iranians now face imprisonment, possibly even death depending how paranoid the Iranian regime becomes, upon return to their country for showing solidarity with their own people by refusing to sing the national anthem. Truly, truly disappointed at how gutless those seven countries (England, Wales, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium) who were to wear the One Love armband have been in the face of the slightest pressure. We can expect more of this in 2030 when after Saudis buy the world cup, because nobody is willing to do what is necessary: turn the game into an absolute farce to show you won't be pushed around.

I just don’t agree, football brings people together from all different backgrounds and beliefs. For that 90 mins it’s all about the sport and escape from the regular.

[Spiral]

If you want to see why you must not yield, have a look at this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... isbon.html

At a warm-up game against Nigeria taking place in in LISBON (not Qatar), Portugal fans had shirts protesting Qatar's treatment of workers, remembering the thousands who have died. These shirts were confiscated by security.

This is how it works; this is the mission creep; these are the consequences. A despotic regime uses corrupt means to enmesh itself politically and economically with another nation, or indeed, the rest of the world in the case of the hosting of international events, and this causes a self-censor of those other countries involved who don't want to upset the hosts. The effect is that the host (or the nation-state owner of a football club, for example) has a certain power to impose their will on others, to open channels of communication to those in positions of power where it otherwise would not be possible, to demonstrate strength — politically and economically — both regionally and globally, and ultimately, to enlist a small army of prominent lickspittles and apologists who come to your defence when you inevitably transgress all standards of decency. It's an insurance policy. So those of you who complain about the politicisation of football need to consider what is happening right under your nose. I'll reiterate, you push back when you see this, you boycott, or if you participate, you stand by your principles, but you absolutely do not roll over so meekly. You waved the white flag at the sight of a fvcking yellow card? Seriously? Is the tournament even worth winning at this point? Do we even want our name on that trophy?

BTW, there's also been an eleventh-hour ban on cooked Kosher meat and public daily prayer for Jews. At what point do you begin to question if your pathetically uncritical participation in this tournament is in a small part actually empowering these bigots?

[Spiral]

I just don’t agree, football brings people together from all different backgrounds and beliefs. For that 90 mins it’s all about the sport and escape from the regular.

I don't think I'm any more ethical, moral or decent a person than anyone else on this forum, but I think a lot of you are very slow learners, and that's sad to see. This is happening before your eyes, and in the confusion of the moment it's difficult to see clearly, but it's a relatively new iteration of an old idea: using the prestige that comes with being a host to confer legitimacy upon oneself. All hosts do this to a degree, but then you ask yourself, 'considering their values, is it a good thing if the host nation is empowered?' But to separate the sport from the politics behind it and only pay attention to the spectacle is wilful blindness. That's allowing a corruption of your own mind, of your own principles and beliefs.

In the 1936 Berlin games the Nazis invented the myth of the eternal flame used in the Olympics. There was no such flame in the games held more than two-and-a half-thousand years ago. The Olympic torch is Nazi propaganda, still used today, the idea being that by hosting the event you're given the honour of being a protector or guardian of the eternal flame, mythologically connecting the present day (meaning, at the time, Nazi Germany and its worldview) to the past, to antiquity, to the games held in ancient Greece, a period — along with the Roman empire — which the Nazis alluded to a lot so as to draw a connecting line from Greek antiquity (the dawn of western civilisation), through the Roman Republic, then the Empire, then later the Holy Roman Empire, and finally, to the Nazis themselves, portraying themselves as having recaptured European power and culture for Germany, as though it were their destiny to have dominion over Europe.

So tell me, now that the lens of history provides us with a clearer picture, is your take-away from the 1936 Berlin Olympics merely that sport is "all about the escape from the regular?" And if you are willing and able to take a more nuanced stance on the 1936 Olympics (I hope you are), why do you resist doing so today with this World Cup, and with the model of nation-state club ownership more generally?

[dvalley69]

see, it's not that difficult ...

The can take the knee anytime they want

[Billy Balfour]

The can take the knee anytime they want

Is your username taken from the awesome Sonic Youth song?

[dvalley69]

Is your username taken from the awesome Sonic Youth song?

spot on Billy

[ClaretCliff]

Just watching the Wales match and one of the USA. Team has red white and blue dyed hair. So it looks like dyed hair is acceptable to FIFA - so why do England not have rainbow dyed hair??