Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Stayingup » Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:03 pm

Spike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:42 pm
I was 16 and in the Leppings Lane there were Geordies mixed in with us
Yes but we, a lot of us, were in the other end with Geordies. We couldn't get tickets in the Claret end . If only Nulty's had scored!!!

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:40 am

I was a tad upset that Gordon Hill reffed it. He’d been a teacher in Rossy but was always listed as Leicester. He was known to have a soft spot for the Clarets but we had a good hand ball shout early on that he denied us.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:43 am

houseboy wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:50 pm
I remember all the above but I think we should take off our rose tinted specs with regard to our support. Unless I’m very much mistaken we were a bit of a laughing stock because we were I believe the first team to ever return tickets unsold for an FA Cup semi. Think we got 22k and sold 18k. I remember standing in the Leppings Lane end just before kick off and thinking bloody hell they have three quarters of the ground. A sea of black and white. We did of course play them off the park and even scousers said we would have given them a better game in the final but support wise it was a bit embarrassing.
Very much doubt we were the first side. Blackburn didn't sell all their tickets for the 1960 final, so would they have sold out for the semi? I bet all sorts of sides returned tickets for semis.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Loyal Supporter » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:51 am

Quicknick wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:43 am
Very much doubt we were the first side. Blackburn didn't sell all their tickets for the 1960 final, so would they have sold out for the semi? I bet all sorts of sides returned tickets for semis.
The semis would have been held at a neutral large ground as near to both clubs as possible. Not at Wembley as you might think?
The Burnley turn out was poor and Newcastle taunted us on the day, singing you couldn't sell your tickets.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Silkyskills1 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:06 am

Loyal Supporter wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:51 am
The semis would have been held at a neutral large ground as near to both clubs as possible. Not at Wembley as you might think?
The Burnley turn out was poor and Newcastle taunted us on the day, singing you couldn't sell your tickets.
In 1960 Blackburn played Sheff Wed. in the semi final at Maine Rd. Should have been us but that's another story. 🥺
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Stan Tastic » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:09 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:53 pm
At the time I was really annoyed with Frank Casper who declared himself fit when very few people thought he would be fit after suffering a bad knee injury. It might have been as recently as the previous game but I’m not sure about that. I wanted Ray Hankin to play as he had been playing well which makes me unsure as to when Frank was initially injured, but as a senior pro he was going to be selected if he declared himself fit. I still think that a fit Ray Hankin would have made all the difference.
If you read the thread it's mentioned that Casper was injured at Leeds the previous week. The save from McFaul to deny him a goal was outstanding.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by durhamclaret » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:29 am

I blame Norman Hunter and Leeds Utd for everything!
Never forgive never forget UTC.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by alki claret » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:06 am

When people say our support was poor need to bear in mind the way we were stitched up over the ticket allocation..the only tickets left unsold were those in the Newcastle end.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:16 am

alki claret wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:06 am
When people say our support was poor need to bear in mind the way we were stitched up over the ticket allocation..the only tickets left unsold were those in the Newcastle end.
18,000 was still a good turnout.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:19 am

alki claret wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:06 am
When people say our support was poor need to bear in mind the way we were stitched up over the ticket allocation..the only tickets left unsold were those in the Newcastle end.
I suspect this is pretty much true, but I do remember a paper (The Mail?) running a story a short while before the match showing Newcastle fans "incognito" queuing and buying tickets at The Turf as they couldn't get hold of them at St James'. Proper checks for stuff like this were virtually unheard of then.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by alwaysaclaret » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:20 am

Spike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:42 pm
I was 16 and in the Leppings Lane there were Geordies mixed in with us
I was also 16, yes lots of geordies came in around 2-45 as I remember, one of the things that's stuck in my mind is I seemed to be looking up at them all, but as someone else has said, don't think my feet touched the ground all game it was that rammed and an accident waiting to happen even then. But the result still hurts today, we were nailed on to win, especially after the 4-1 win at weeds the week before, took me and mates at school ages to get over.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Stan Tastic » Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:26 pm

If I remember correctly the unsold tickets were the most expensive ones for seats in the stand. If memory serves we were allocated 20,000 and sold around 17,500. When Newcastle visited in the league later that season we had to endure chants of 'you couldn't sell your tickets'.

The game itself might as well have been played at Newcastle as 'howay the lads' echoed around the stadium. I was right in the middle of the Leppings Lane end and it was the most overcrowded end I've been in.

An awful day capped by arriving back at Burnley at about 10.00pm after some idiots kept pulling the communication cord on the train. Bailed out at Manchester Road even though there was no station there at the time.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:43 am
Very much doubt we were the first side. Blackburn didn't sell all their tickets for the 1960 final, so would they have sold out for the semi? I bet all sorts of sides returned tickets for semis.
You could be right but I remember it making headlines at the time. And I always wondered why there were so many Geordies because tickets were, I believe, distributed equally. Rumour had it (and I stress rumour) that Geordies came down to buy our tickets, which could have been done as checks weren’t as thorough as now. If that be the case we sold even less than 18k. Either way I know we were outnumbered about three to one.
All that apart my main memory of the day was Colin Waldron hanging on to Macs waist as he bore down on the Leppings goal and it didn’t stop him or slow him down. We were screaming bring him down but he just couldn’t. Otherwise apart from Macs two goals they were sh!te.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Darnhill Claret » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:18 pm

I remember Malcolm McDonald scoring against us when he played for Luton. He was a right back then.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by durhamclaret » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:25 pm

It wasn’t a “rumour”that some Newcastle fans came down to the Turf to buy tickets, I distinctly remember seeing at least 2 minibuses with Tyneside addresses on parked up on Brunshaw Road on ticket selling day.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:27 pm

houseboy wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:43 pm
You could be right but I remember it making headlines at the time. And I always wondered why there were so many Geordies because tickets were, I believe, distributed equally. Rumour had it (and I stress rumour) that Geordies came down to buy our tickets, which could have been done as checks weren’t as thorough as now. If that be the case we sold even less than 18k. Either way I know we were outnumbered about three to one.
All that apart my main memory of the day was Colin Waldron hanging on to Macs waist as he bore down on the Leppings goal and it didn’t stop him or slow him down. We were screaming bring him down but he just couldn’t. Otherwise apart from Macs two goals they were sh!te.
Outnumbered, alright, but not three to one.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:51 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:27 pm
Outnumbered, alright, but not three to one.
I’d say not far off. They had the opposite end and a good deal of both sides. Hillsborough was like a giant bar code. 😊

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:02 pm

It was 'orrible; completely forgettable from start to finish.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:55 am

houseboy wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:51 pm
I’d say not far off. They had the opposite end and a good deal of both sides. Hillsborough was like a giant bar code. 😊
3 to 1 ?

That would mean the crowd was about 72,000.

54,000 to 18,000

But, the total crowd was only 55,000.

Something's amiss.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Stanbill05 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:18 am

Newcastle has/had a population more than 10 times bigger than Burnley. Why would there be embarrassment that they sold more tickets?

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:23 am

Stanbill05 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:18 am
Newcastle has/had a population more than 10 times bigger than Burnley. Why would there be embarrassment that they sold more tickets?
Precisely. I would imagine Blackburn would have sold less than us.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:59 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:55 am
3 to 1 ?

That would mean the crowd was about 72,000.

54,000 to 18,000

But, the total crowd was only 55,000.

Something's amiss.
Only slightly. Okay maybe 3-1 an exaggeration but my point is I’m not even certain we had 18k. We SOLD about 18k but there were strong (albeit unsubstantiated) rumours that Newcastle fans had travelled down to buy tickets at our place. I don’t of course know the exact numbers and we probably never will but I certainly felt on the day that we were outnumbered and out shouted in a major way. Let’s agree on 2-1 as that could be about right.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:08 pm

Stanbill05 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:18 am
Newcastle has/had a population more than 10 times bigger than Burnley. Why would there be embarrassment that they sold more tickets?
Not my argument bud. The embarrassment was sending tickets back unsold, not being outnumbered. Of course we’d be outnumbered on a limitless ticket basis but we got, I think, 22k tickets each. We couldn’t sell 22k tickets for an FA cup semi in the days when it was still considered major. This is made even more strange by the fact that we sold around 40k for the play off against Stockport when we were a third tier club. Our support has I believe significantly improved since the 70s and maybe that is because of the near disaster staved off by the Orient game. Maybe people now realise our importance to the town. We now have fantastic away support and good support generally but that has not always been the case.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Silkyskills1 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:31 pm

Remember coming away from Elland Rd. the week before absolutely elated at the display and scoreline. I also thought that such an excellent win would surely convince those reluctant to see us in an FA Cup semi final change their minds and get a ticket but alas it didn't seem to work out that way. Have to admit that my main concern in the week leading up to the game was around the fitness of Frank Casper who probably played his best ever game for us at Leeds before being subjected to the thuggery that existed throughout their team. Every day after getting ho.e from work I went to buy the evening paper hoping for good news and when it was confirmed he would be available I, like so many others, genuinely believed that Wembley awaited us. Over 48 years ago and still so fresh in my mind. To put that into perspective 48 years before that Wembley Stadium had only been open for three years and it was only 8 years since the end of the Great War. 🥺🥺

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:33 pm

houseboy wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:08 pm
Not my argument bud. The embarrassment was sending tickets back unsold, not being outnumbered. Of course we’d be outnumbered on a limitless ticket basis but we got, I think, 22k tickets each. We couldn’t sell 22k tickets for an FA cup semi in the days when it was still considered major. This is made even more strange by the fact that we sold around 40k for the play off against Stockport when we were a third tier club. Our support has I believe significantly improved since the 70s and maybe that is because of the near disaster staved off by the Orient game. Maybe people now realise our importance to the town. We now have fantastic away support and good support generally but that has not always been the case.
We had very good away support in the '60s and '70s, too. But not for every game. On occasions, though we took far more than we ever do now.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Silkyskills1 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:31 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:33 pm
We had very good away support in the '60s and '70s, too. But not for every game. On occasions, though we took far more than we ever do now.
Ground capacities were generally much higher than they are now( few exceptions) and all ticket matches were extremely rare. Just a couple to mention but there will be many, many more. Final game of 72-73 season at Deepdale. Wouldn't have happened today. Boxing Day 1965 away at Stoke where we took a huge following. Sadly lost that one 3-1.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Buxtonclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:42 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:31 pm
Remember coming away from Elland Rd. the week before absolutely elated at the display and scoreline. I also thought that such an excellent win would surely convince those reluctant to see us in an FA Cup semi final change their minds and get a ticket but alas it didn't seem to work out that way. Have to admit that my main concern in the week leading up to the game was around the fitness of Frank Casper who probably played his best ever game for us at Leeds before being subjected to the thuggery that existed throughout their team.. 🥺🥺
They'd had a couple of goes at Frank a while before Hunter actually nailed him.
Not just Frank either.
They couldn't touch us, football-wise. We were just too good for them, so they resorted to kicking/elbowing/'leaving-a-leg' in, taking one of ours out, well before half-time.
To this day I just can't help but despise Weeds.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:36 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:33 pm
We had very good away support in the '60s and '70s, too. But not for every game. On occasions, though we took far more than we ever do now.
It was sometimes good I agree but as someone who travelled miles to away games in the 70s it could also be quite lonely. Like some London games with three or four coach loads at best. Oddly our home gates, in the top flight, have always been about the same, around 19k average mostly, then and now, which is great for the size of the town, amazing even. Our support is up there with the best in the world per head of population. But there were times when going to away games was a bit desperate with regard to safety in numbers, or lack of it.
Still, whatever the support, I wouldn’t be anything but a Claret.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Loyal Supporter » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:02 pm

One of my recently retired workmates frequently reminisced about away days with the Clarets in the 70s. He used to say that there was a hard core of around 30 that went on the home end at most away games and ended up scrapping. He said that Villa Park was an exception. Apparently they were all regulars in a pub in Burnley near "the flats" which I'm not familiar with being a North Yorkshire claret. I think it was early 70s, maybe the promotion season.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:34 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:31 pm
Ground capacities were generally much higher than they are now( few exceptions) and all ticket matches were extremely rare. Just a couple to mention but there will be many, many more. Final game of 72-73 season at Deepdale. Wouldn't have happened today. Boxing Day 1965 away at Stoke where we took a huge following. Sadly lost that one 3-1.
Maybe 18,000 at PNE that day. The '65 game at Stoke? What sort of following did we take?

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Tricky Trevor » Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:18 pm

The early 70s were a hard time financially for many.
As pointed out to me around that time we had a reputation as losers:
after Rovers “comeback” cost us a shot at the double
Losing out to Ipswich for the title from a strong position
losing the battle of Turf Moor to Leeds(for runners up)
losing at home to Frankfurt(after getting a draw away) in the Fairs Cup QF
losing to 3rd division Swindon after 3 matches for a place at Wembley.

Add the two together and I can understand why some wouldn’t bother. Sadly they were proved right.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Silkyskills1 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:32 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:34 pm
Maybe 18,000 at PNE that day. The '65 game at Stoke? What sort of following did we take?
Don't know the figure. But we had a good side, were doing well and I remember being in their Boothen End with a number of family. Lot of noise when we opened the scoring but ultimately outplayed and lost 3-1. I was 13 years old at the time.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:32 pm
Don't know the figure. But we had a good side, were doing well and I remember being in their Boothen End with a number of family. Lot of noise when we opened the scoring but ultimately outplayed and lost 3-1. I was 13 years old at the time.
We came third that season. our last really good season until, I suppose, '73-'74.
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:10 pm

houseboy wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:59 pm
Only slightly. Okay maybe 3-1 an exaggeration but my point is I’m not even certain we had 18k. We SOLD about 18k but there were strong (albeit unsubstantiated) rumours that Newcastle fans had travelled down to buy tickets at our place. I don’t of course know the exact numbers and we probably never will but I certainly felt on the day that we were outnumbered and out shouted in a major way. Let’s agree on 2-1 as that could be about right.
Good man, I like a man who can admit they have exaggerated.
I've told you a thousand times it was nearer to 37,000 to 18,000.
:D
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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by houseboy » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:14 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:10 pm
Good man, I like a man who can admit they have exaggerated.
I've told you a thousand times it was nearer to 37,000 to 18,000.
:D
And I have never told a lie. Oh, hang on. That might be a lie. Does that count? 😂

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by kindonesque » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:50 am

I was chatting about this match to an old mate, a journalist covering the Clarets back in the 70s. He was on duty at the semi-final reporting on the match and he had some background gossip to the build up. He recalled how we had stuffed Leeds the week prior to the SF, in a match played amid some right bad feeling. Relations between Bob Lord and the Leeds chairman were at rock bottom after Lord made some disparaging comments about Jewish people in the context of football finance. My mate claimed Jimmy Adamson and his great team rocked up to Elland Road, jumped off the bus, got changed and went out and mangled a top Leeds side. They were top of the league that day. For the last twenty minutes we were just taking the **** out of them knocking the ball round for fun. On the final whistle the team departed straight on the bus and left. Crazy stuff. (OK, they might have had a shower). Norman Hunter left his mark on Frank in a tackle which effectively ended his career. Nobody knew it at the time but he was never the same player. Frank maybe convinced the manager he was fit to play the semi but it was a bad call really. The view was that we saw peak Claret against Leeds the week before, effectively putting in the performance that should have been saved for Hillsborough. We did play Newcastle off the park, (easy considering how rubbish they were) but Macdonald took his two chances well. Had we got the result we would have beaten Liverpool in the final. Even today I feel sick to the stomach thinking about it.

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Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question

Post by Quicknick » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:57 am

kindonesque wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:50 am
I was chatting about this match to an old mate, a journalist covering the Clarets back in the 70s. He was on duty at the semi-final reporting on the match and he had some background gossip to the build up. He recalled how we had stuffed Leeds the week prior to the SF, in a match played amid some right bad feeling. Relations between Bob Lord and the Leeds chairman were at rock bottom after Lord made some disparaging comments about Jewish people in the context of football finance. My mate claimed Jimmy Adamson and his great team rocked up to Elland Road, jumped off the bus, got changed and went out and mangled a top Leeds side. They were top of the league that day. For the last twenty minutes we were just taking the **** out of them knocking the ball round for fun. On the final whistle the team departed straight on the bus and left. Crazy stuff. (OK, they might have had a shower). Norman Hunter left his mark on Frank in a tackle which effectively ended his career. Nobody knew it at the time but he was never the same player. Frank maybe convinced the manager he was fit to play the semi but it was a bad call really. The view was that we saw peak Claret against Leeds the week before, effectively putting in the performance that should have been saved for Hillsborough. We did play Newcastle off the park, (easy considering how rubbish they were) but Macdonald took his two chances well. Had we got the result we would have beaten Liverpool in the final. Even today I feel sick to the stomach thinking about it.
We MIGHT have beaten Liverpool.

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