Re: Hilsborough semi ‘74 question
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:03 pm
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Very much doubt we were the first side. Blackburn didn't sell all their tickets for the 1960 final, so would they have sold out for the semi? I bet all sorts of sides returned tickets for semis.houseboy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:50 pmI remember all the above but I think we should take off our rose tinted specs with regard to our support. Unless I’m very much mistaken we were a bit of a laughing stock because we were I believe the first team to ever return tickets unsold for an FA Cup semi. Think we got 22k and sold 18k. I remember standing in the Leppings Lane end just before kick off and thinking bloody hell they have three quarters of the ground. A sea of black and white. We did of course play them off the park and even scousers said we would have given them a better game in the final but support wise it was a bit embarrassing.
The semis would have been held at a neutral large ground as near to both clubs as possible. Not at Wembley as you might think?
In 1960 Blackburn played Sheff Wed. in the semi final at Maine Rd. Should have been us but that's another story.Loyal Supporter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:51 amThe semis would have been held at a neutral large ground as near to both clubs as possible. Not at Wembley as you might think?
The Burnley turn out was poor and Newcastle taunted us on the day, singing you couldn't sell your tickets.
If you read the thread it's mentioned that Casper was injured at Leeds the previous week. The save from McFaul to deny him a goal was outstanding.Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:53 pmAt the time I was really annoyed with Frank Casper who declared himself fit when very few people thought he would be fit after suffering a bad knee injury. It might have been as recently as the previous game but I’m not sure about that. I wanted Ray Hankin to play as he had been playing well which makes me unsure as to when Frank was initially injured, but as a senior pro he was going to be selected if he declared himself fit. I still think that a fit Ray Hankin would have made all the difference.
18,000 was still a good turnout.alki claret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:06 amWhen people say our support was poor need to bear in mind the way we were stitched up over the ticket allocation..the only tickets left unsold were those in the Newcastle end.
I suspect this is pretty much true, but I do remember a paper (The Mail?) running a story a short while before the match showing Newcastle fans "incognito" queuing and buying tickets at The Turf as they couldn't get hold of them at St James'. Proper checks for stuff like this were virtually unheard of then.alki claret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:06 amWhen people say our support was poor need to bear in mind the way we were stitched up over the ticket allocation..the only tickets left unsold were those in the Newcastle end.
I was also 16, yes lots of geordies came in around 2-45 as I remember, one of the things that's stuck in my mind is I seemed to be looking up at them all, but as someone else has said, don't think my feet touched the ground all game it was that rammed and an accident waiting to happen even then. But the result still hurts today, we were nailed on to win, especially after the 4-1 win at weeds the week before, took me and mates at school ages to get over.
You could be right but I remember it making headlines at the time. And I always wondered why there were so many Geordies because tickets were, I believe, distributed equally. Rumour had it (and I stress rumour) that Geordies came down to buy our tickets, which could have been done as checks weren’t as thorough as now. If that be the case we sold even less than 18k. Either way I know we were outnumbered about three to one.
Outnumbered, alright, but not three to one.houseboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:43 pmYou could be right but I remember it making headlines at the time. And I always wondered why there were so many Geordies because tickets were, I believe, distributed equally. Rumour had it (and I stress rumour) that Geordies came down to buy our tickets, which could have been done as checks weren’t as thorough as now. If that be the case we sold even less than 18k. Either way I know we were outnumbered about three to one.
All that apart my main memory of the day was Colin Waldron hanging on to Macs waist as he bore down on the Leppings goal and it didn’t stop him or slow him down. We were screaming bring him down but he just couldn’t. Otherwise apart from Macs two goals they were sh!te.
Precisely. I would imagine Blackburn would have sold less than us.Stanbill05 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:18 amNewcastle has/had a population more than 10 times bigger than Burnley. Why would there be embarrassment that they sold more tickets?
Only slightly. Okay maybe 3-1 an exaggeration but my point is I’m not even certain we had 18k. We SOLD about 18k but there were strong (albeit unsubstantiated) rumours that Newcastle fans had travelled down to buy tickets at our place. I don’t of course know the exact numbers and we probably never will but I certainly felt on the day that we were outnumbered and out shouted in a major way. Let’s agree on 2-1 as that could be about right.2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:55 am3 to 1 ?
That would mean the crowd was about 72,000.
54,000 to 18,000
But, the total crowd was only 55,000.
Something's amiss.
Not my argument bud. The embarrassment was sending tickets back unsold, not being outnumbered. Of course we’d be outnumbered on a limitless ticket basis but we got, I think, 22k tickets each. We couldn’t sell 22k tickets for an FA cup semi in the days when it was still considered major. This is made even more strange by the fact that we sold around 40k for the play off against Stockport when we were a third tier club. Our support has I believe significantly improved since the 70s and maybe that is because of the near disaster staved off by the Orient game. Maybe people now realise our importance to the town. We now have fantastic away support and good support generally but that has not always been the case.Stanbill05 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:18 amNewcastle has/had a population more than 10 times bigger than Burnley. Why would there be embarrassment that they sold more tickets?
We had very good away support in the '60s and '70s, too. But not for every game. On occasions, though we took far more than we ever do now.houseboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:08 pmNot my argument bud. The embarrassment was sending tickets back unsold, not being outnumbered. Of course we’d be outnumbered on a limitless ticket basis but we got, I think, 22k tickets each. We couldn’t sell 22k tickets for an FA cup semi in the days when it was still considered major. This is made even more strange by the fact that we sold around 40k for the play off against Stockport when we were a third tier club. Our support has I believe significantly improved since the 70s and maybe that is because of the near disaster staved off by the Orient game. Maybe people now realise our importance to the town. We now have fantastic away support and good support generally but that has not always been the case.
Ground capacities were generally much higher than they are now( few exceptions) and all ticket matches were extremely rare. Just a couple to mention but there will be many, many more. Final game of 72-73 season at Deepdale. Wouldn't have happened today. Boxing Day 1965 away at Stoke where we took a huge following. Sadly lost that one 3-1.
They'd had a couple of goes at Frank a while before Hunter actually nailed him.Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:31 pmRemember coming away from Elland Rd. the week before absolutely elated at the display and scoreline. I also thought that such an excellent win would surely convince those reluctant to see us in an FA Cup semi final change their minds and get a ticket but alas it didn't seem to work out that way. Have to admit that my main concern in the week leading up to the game was around the fitness of Frank Casper who probably played his best ever game for us at Leeds before being subjected to the thuggery that existed throughout their team..
It was sometimes good I agree but as someone who travelled miles to away games in the 70s it could also be quite lonely. Like some London games with three or four coach loads at best. Oddly our home gates, in the top flight, have always been about the same, around 19k average mostly, then and now, which is great for the size of the town, amazing even. Our support is up there with the best in the world per head of population. But there were times when going to away games was a bit desperate with regard to safety in numbers, or lack of it.
Maybe 18,000 at PNE that day. The '65 game at Stoke? What sort of following did we take?Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:31 pmGround capacities were generally much higher than they are now( few exceptions) and all ticket matches were extremely rare. Just a couple to mention but there will be many, many more. Final game of 72-73 season at Deepdale. Wouldn't have happened today. Boxing Day 1965 away at Stoke where we took a huge following. Sadly lost that one 3-1.
Don't know the figure. But we had a good side, were doing well and I remember being in their Boothen End with a number of family. Lot of noise when we opened the scoring but ultimately outplayed and lost 3-1. I was 13 years old at the time.
We came third that season. our last really good season until, I suppose, '73-'74.Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:32 pmDon't know the figure. But we had a good side, were doing well and I remember being in their Boothen End with a number of family. Lot of noise when we opened the scoring but ultimately outplayed and lost 3-1. I was 13 years old at the time.
Good man, I like a man who can admit they have exaggerated.houseboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:59 pmOnly slightly. Okay maybe 3-1 an exaggeration but my point is I’m not even certain we had 18k. We SOLD about 18k but there were strong (albeit unsubstantiated) rumours that Newcastle fans had travelled down to buy tickets at our place. I don’t of course know the exact numbers and we probably never will but I certainly felt on the day that we were outnumbered and out shouted in a major way. Let’s agree on 2-1 as that could be about right.
And I have never told a lie. Oh, hang on. That might be a lie. Does that count?2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:10 pmGood man, I like a man who can admit they have exaggerated.
I've told you a thousand times it was nearer to 37,000 to 18,000.
We MIGHT have beaten Liverpool.kindonesque wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:50 amI was chatting about this match to an old mate, a journalist covering the Clarets back in the 70s. He was on duty at the semi-final reporting on the match and he had some background gossip to the build up. He recalled how we had stuffed Leeds the week prior to the SF, in a match played amid some right bad feeling. Relations between Bob Lord and the Leeds chairman were at rock bottom after Lord made some disparaging comments about Jewish people in the context of football finance. My mate claimed Jimmy Adamson and his great team rocked up to Elland Road, jumped off the bus, got changed and went out and mangled a top Leeds side. They were top of the league that day. For the last twenty minutes we were just taking the **** out of them knocking the ball round for fun. On the final whistle the team departed straight on the bus and left. Crazy stuff. (OK, they might have had a shower). Norman Hunter left his mark on Frank in a tackle which effectively ended his career. Nobody knew it at the time but he was never the same player. Frank maybe convinced the manager he was fit to play the semi but it was a bad call really. The view was that we saw peak Claret against Leeds the week before, effectively putting in the performance that should have been saved for Hillsborough. We did play Newcastle off the park, (easy considering how rubbish they were) but Macdonald took his two chances well. Had we got the result we would have beaten Liverpool in the final. Even today I feel sick to the stomach thinking about it.