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Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 pm
by Spijed
ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:37 pm
No one in the world wll "nullify " Mbappe on his current form. He looks unstoppable.
Hope im wrong, like.
Do England take the risk and push forward against him?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:12 pm
by RVclaret
Spijed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 pm
Do England take the risk and push forward against him?
Kyle Walker
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:12 pm
by Devils_Advocate
Tall Paul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 pm
We appear to be the top scorers in the competition.
Dull Safegate football
Yep but apparently our "defence is still utterly rubbish"
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 pm
by taio
Stayingup wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:04 pm
They may be but the collective would appear to be otherwuse. So shut your drivel comments up.
Absolute rubbish saying Wales are league 1 standard.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 pm
by Duffer_
Needs a lttle help with the quote function while you're at it KRBFC.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:17 pm
by Stayingup
taio wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 pm
Absolute rubbish saying Wales are league 1 standard.
Well maybe not but they aren't good are they. Not to tske anything away from England tonight. They did what they had to do and did it well. I am not one like some who don't want England to do well. I hope we win it and I am looking forward to playing Championship level teams in the next encounters!!!
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:19 pm
by Stayingup
Duffer_ wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 pm
Needs a lttle help with the quote function while you're at it KRBFC.
Dear me.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:20 pm
by No Ney Never
Won our group.
Unbeaten.
Scored 9.
2 clean sheets.
Through to the knockout stages.
Happy with that.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
by Spijed
Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:39 pm
Some of our young talent are really up there as best in the world.
Certainly very talented but probably a level below Mbappe.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:46 pm
by AfloatinClaret
Biggest disappointment/annoyance with the Taffs was with the number of sly and unnecessary fouls they committed during the last ten or fifteen minutes. Earlier on was fair enough, but by then the game was lost/over so why risk potentially injuring one of the England players?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:53 pm
by CrosspoolClarets
I see a bit of twitchiness about someone saying Wales were L1 standard, obviously not but I’d fancy the Clarets to beat them so Champ standard for me as we said the other day. Only Davies would get in our side at the Turf. They don’t have game changers, nobody to hurt England, and the keeper was woeful, gifted us goals 1 and 3 (did a few hops to his right for the 1st, Shearer spotted it). I don’t rate James, never have, a poor man’s Benson for me, and Wilson / Johnson also lacks a finished product.
For Wales, getting here was the big achievement.
Senegal are better but middling, so I expect England to beat them, but SafeGate will park the bus against France with this side but with two of Saka, Mount or Sterling replacing Foden and Rashford (who are both superior). Two full backs sitting back, and two holding midfielders with Bellingham just ahead. That is what I expect, and I think it will lead to an exit.
(the reason I despair at him, easy opposition tonight, but I mean generally, is partly his first XI but also his late substitutes and unwillingness to change tack. I doubt he will have evolved in this regard, but we will see - I see Shearer and others have been writing similar in articles)
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:15 pm
by Newcastleclaret93
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:53 pm
I see a bit of twitchiness about someone saying Wales were L1 standard, obviously not but I’d fancy the Clarets to beat them so Champ standard for me as we said the other day. Only Davies would get in our side at the Turf. They don’t have game changers, nobody to hurt England, and the keeper was woeful, gifted us goals 1 and 3 (did a few hops to his right for the 1st, Shearer spotted it). I don’t rate James, never have, a poor man’s Benson for me, and Wilson / Johnson also lacks a finished product.
For Wales, getting here was the big achievement.
Senegal are better but middling, so I expect England to beat them, but SafeGate will park the bus against France with this side but with two of Saka, Mount or Sterling replacing Foden and Rashford (who are both superior). Two full backs sitting back, and two holding midfielders with Bellingham just ahead. That is what I expect, and I think it will lead to an exit.
(the reason I despair at him, easy opposition tonight, but I mean generally, is partly his first XI but also his late substitutes and unwillingness to change tack. I doubt he will have evolved in this regard, but we will see - I see Shearer and others have been writing similar in articles)
That’s a bit harsh on that welsh team. Plenty of good players, many of whom are playing at a higher level than Burnley already.
England were just ten times better with a team littered with elite players.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:21 pm
by Sheedyclaret
Are we all assuming France have already won there last 16 match
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:27 pm
by Swizzlestick
There's 'twitchiness' because six of their starting line up play in the PL, two in Ligue 1 in France and one in Serie A. Mepham would be getting in our team as would the GK despite his poor performance - he's Leicester's number one. You could make reasonable arguments for Rodon, Williams, and James too. I expected a more competitive game and it isn't England's issue that they didn't provide that. 'Safegate' seems an odd name for the manager of the current World Cup top scorers.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:29 pm
by TheOriginalLongsider
I do think England do better against the bigger sides. Wales were poor tonight. I suspect Senegal will be harder to beat but we should do it. Then the tournament really starts !
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:30 pm
by boatshed bill
Though I don't rate Hennessey as any more than average PL level I have to say that his error, and sending off, had a fair bit to do with the final outcome for Wales.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:31 pm
by Swizzlestick
I do fancy us against Senegal - they seem to play at more of a faster tempo which I think will be to our benefit. We've just had to face three pretty conservative, 'keep it solid' opponents and had to be patient in the main.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:40 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
No Ney Never wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:20 pm
Won our group.
Unbeaten.
Scored 9.
2 clean sheets.
Through to the knockout stages.
Happy with that.
Yet we lacking something that I can't (can really) put my finger on.
Which will become all too apparent in the next week or two.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:34 am
by Top Claret
WC over for our Connor, now lets hope he gets his head down and fully commits himself to getting Burnley promoted
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:37 am
by RVclaret
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:40 pm
Yet we lacking something that I can't (can really) put my finger on.
Which will become all too apparent in the next week or two.
What do you think we are lacking?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am
by Belgianclaret
The only thing England's manager is missing to date, is the courage to play on the front foot against the big teams
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:11 am
by Lancasterclaret
I think we've been very good in two games, and struggled in one
Its possible that Southgate may well have hit on his best eleven last night, and you can certainly argue that on form Saka, Rashford and Foden all have to play
I just don't see Sterling as a starter ahead of any of them
Henderson looks key as well
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:29 am
by tiger76
Belgianclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am
The only thing England's manager is missing to date, is the courage to play on the front foot against the big teams
Fortune favours the bold they say, so from England's POV I sincerely hope he his the courage to back his squad against the better nations.
England have an abundance of attacking options so let them play with freedom and see what happens.
England look far more effective when playing at tempo with a high press, yes it carries an element of risk but the rewards could be great if they can pull it off.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:48 am
by Devils_Advocate
Belgianclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am
The only thing England's manager is missing to date, is the courage to play on the front foot against the big teams
Did we not play on the front foot against the Germans at the Euro's and Im pretty sure we started on the front foot against Italy in the final?
Once you get to the latter stages against the top 5 or 6 teams you dont just decided to go on the front foot but its who wins the battles on the pitch to get control of the game and again against the other top teams thats not something we should expect to be able to just do but something we need to compete at and try to edge over the course of 90 / 120 mins
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:54 am
by Hipper
To defend Ward, he made a top save against Rashford in the first half and looked pretty solid. Yes he did make the wrong move for Rashford's free kick but he also had a late view of it I think, and for Rasford's second, these are difficult for goalkeepers.
Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:53 pm
Got to say Roberts has had a really poor tournament for Wales.
I only really saw him last night. I thought overall he was good - good interceptions, passing, movement etc.. It's the second and third goals where there are questions.
For the second he anticipated an attack so moved into space leaving Foden unmarked. It was a risk and because Wales (Ben Davies) messed up under pressure, Roberts was caught out. For Rashford's second he went forward in anticipation of a ball to Henderson but instead it was lobbed forward to Rashford. He did get back well to challenge but couldn't quite prevent the goal. I would put both down to a determination to get Wales forward. Perhaps they were his instructions.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:55 am
by Rileybobs
Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:48 am
Did we not play on the front foot against the Germans at the Euro's and Im pretty sure we started on the front foot against Italy in the final?
Once you get to the latter stages against the top 5 or 6 teams you dont just decided to go on the front foot but its who wins the battles on the pitch to get control of the game and again against the other top teams thats not something we should expect to be able to just do but something we need to compete at and try to edge over the course of 90 / 120 mins
Agree with this, and this is why I don't see the introduction of Henderson, or Phillips as the 'double pivot' as defensive - I think people totally misunderstand the greater role which the holding midfielders play. We saw against the USA that when you lose the midfield battle the attacking players are totally isolated and out of the game.
I generally think that we need pace either side of Kane to run in behind him, but when the opposition are sitting so deep, as most sides will do, there isn't space to run in behind. In these instances it's probably more useful to have technical players who can run with the ball such as Foden and Rashford, as proven last night. Great to have such a mixture of forward options, and less reliance on Kane to score the goals.
Another positive is the return of Kyle Walker whose pace and ability to recover allows us to defend with a higher line.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:59 am
by TheFamilyCat
Hipper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:54 am
To defend Ward, he made a top save against Rashford in the first half and looked pretty solid. Yes he did make the wrong move for Rashford's free kick but he also had a late view of it I think, and for Rasford's second, these are difficult for goalkeepers.
I only really saw him last night. I thought overall he was good - good interceptions, passing, movement etc.. It's the second and third goals where there are questions.
For the second he anticipated an attack so moved into space leaving Foden unmarked. It was a risk and because Wales (Ben Davies) messed up under pressure, Roberts was caught out. For Rashford's second he went forward in anticipation of a ball to Henderson but instead it was lobbed forward to Rashford. He did get back well to challenge but couldn't quite prevent the goal. I would put both down to a determination to get Wales forward. Perhaps they were his instructions.
Roberts must have been the only player to receive those instructions because the rest of them didn't look too interested in going forward.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:10 pm
by lakedistrictclaret
Entirely off-topic, but did you know that the surname of the referee of the first ever England v Wales international was "Bast*rd"?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:12 pm
by TheFamilyCat
lakedistrictclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:10 pm
Entirely off-topic, but did you know that the surname of the referee of the first ever England v Wales international was "Bast*rd"?
First name Cheating? Or his brother, Blind?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:19 pm
by Stanbill05
AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:46 pm
Biggest disappointment/annoyance with the Taffs was with the number of sly and unnecessary fouls they committed during the last ten or fifteen minutes. Earlier on was fair enough, but by then the game was lost/over so why risk potentially injuring one of the England players?
Couldn't disagree more, Wales were far too nice all game. Granted a couple of mistimed fouls that could have injured people late on but they needed to be nasty and in our face all night. Because they weren't, it was a stroll in the park and actually quite boring, despite the absolute England dominance.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm
by Newcastleclaret93
Hipper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:54 am
To defend Ward, he made a top save against Rashford in the first half and looked pretty solid. Yes he did make the wrong move for Rashford's free kick but he also had a late view of it I think, and for Rasford's second, these are difficult for goalkeepers.
I only really saw him last night. I thought overall he was good - good interceptions, passing, movement etc.. It's the second and third goals where there are questions.
For the second he anticipated an attack so moved into space leaving Foden unmarked. It was a risk and because Wales (Ben Davies) messed up under pressure, Roberts was caught out. For Rashford's second he went forward in anticipation of a ball to Henderson but instead it was lobbed forward to Rashford. He did get back well to challenge but couldn't quite prevent the goal. I would put both down to a determination to get Wales forward. Perhaps they were his instructions.
Roberts was involved with all three of our goals.
First one gave away the free kick.
Second one he was almost 50ms out of position.
Third one he should have showed Rashford down the outside. Allowed him to cut in and shoot.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:40 pm
by RVclaret
Thought Roberts had a good tournament compared to some of his colleagues.
Hopefully we can get him back fully focused on promotion now.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:42 pm
by Newcastleclaret93
RVclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:40 pm
Thought Roberts had a good tournament compared to some of his colleagues.
Hopefully we can get him back fully focused on promotion now.
Thought he’s been pretty poor tbh. But as others have said I think the whole wales team were poor.
In particular Bale, he had a shocker of a tournament
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:43 pm
by RVclaret
Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:42 pm
Thought he’s been pretty poor tbh. But as others have said I think the whole wales team were poor.
In particular Bale, he had a shocker of a tournament
Did you watch them against USA? He was excellent in the second half. Yes Bale was awful as was Ramsey.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:48 pm
by Swizzlestick
Roberts played v well against USA but had a bit of a shocker against Iran and us, though he's hardly alone on that front in Welsh red. I'd be pointing the finger more at the senior pros like Bale and, in particular, Ramsey, who were atrocious.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:00 pm
by claret2018
What’s happened to Ramsey? He’s only 31 so should be at his peak. He’s been dreadful for at least 18 months.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:03 pm
by Lancasterclaret
claret2018 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:00 pm
What’s happened to Ramsey? He’s only 31 so should be at his peak. He’s been dreadful for at least 18 months.
Injuries
See also Eden Hazard
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:04 pm
by Stanbill05
claret2018 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:00 pm
What’s happened to Ramsey? He’s only 31 so should be at his peak. He’s been dreadful for at least 18 months.
He has a double chin. He needs to be fully fit to be effective - looks miles off that. Looked like a shadow of man and ready for retirement to me, but it might be fixable if he can get fit again. 31 is certainly young enough.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:23 pm
by Jel
Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm
Roberts was involved with all three of our goals.
First one gave away the free kick.
Second one he was almost 50ms out of position.
Third one he should have showed Rashford down the outside. Allowed him to cut in and shoot.
These types of mistakes are reasons why I would much rather have Lowton playing for us.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:49 pm
by boatshed bill
Jel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:23 pm
These types of mistakes are reasons why I would much rather have Lowton playing for us.
Because Lowton never makes mistakes, never gets caught out of position and always gets back into his defensive position very quickly? OK.
What I didn't understand was Page playing Roberts at left-back.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:53 pm
by Vegas Claret
Roberts
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:58 pm
by KRBFC
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:53 pm
I see a bit of twitchiness about someone saying Wales were L1 standard, obviously not but I’d fancy the Clarets to beat them so Champ standard for me as we said the other day. Only Davies would get in our side at the Turf. They don’t have game changers, nobody to hurt England, and the keeper was woeful, gifted us goals 1 and 3 (did a few hops to his right for the 1st, Shearer spotted it). I don’t rate James, never have, a poor man’s Benson for me, and Wilson / Johnson also lacks a finished product.
You're talking out of your absolute backside saying only Davies would get in our side.
Harry Wilson lacks end product? He had 10 goals and 19 assists last season in the Championship. Brennan Johnson 18 goals 10 assists last season.
Like what are we talking about? Just any old bullshit to discredit England? go support Scotland then if you're so anti English
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:58 pm
by KRBFC
No Ney Never wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:20 pm
Won our group.
Unbeaten.
Scored 9.
2 clean sheets.
Through to the knockout stages.
Happy with that.
UP THE FKIN ENGLAND
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:53 pm
by box_of_frogs
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:49 pm
What I didn't understand was Page playing Roberts at left-back.
Didn’t they have to put a midfielder into defence (right back) forcing CR to the left?
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:55 pm
by TheFamilyCat
KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:58 pm
You're talking out of your absolute backside saying only Davies would get in our side.
Harry Wilson lacks end product? He had 10 goals and 19 assists last season in the Championship. Brennan Johnson 18 goals 10 assists last season.
Like what are we talking about? Just any old bullshit to discredit England? go support Scotland then if you're so anti English
I suspect Crosspool meant Wilson lacks end product at international level. But I suspect you knew that.
Using Championship stats to argue players are good at international level is pretty weak for an "expert" like you.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:57 pm
by box_of_frogs
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:10 pm
by gandhisflipflop
KRBFC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:13 pm
clueless
No way to talk about yourself that.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:11 pm
by gandhisflipflop
box_of_frogs wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:06 pm
Like when he dropped deeper and fed Rashford for our best chance of the match?
Yeah, the pass he should have been on the end of instead of playing.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:14 pm
by RVclaret
gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:11 pm
Yeah, the pass he should have been on the end of instead of playing.
Sorry but this is an awful opinion. He gets a very good assist to a far post runner and that’s where he should be? What?
Currently the highest assister at the World Cup and the joint highest for England ever at a World Cup.
Re: England v Wales
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:16 pm
by gandhisflipflop
RVclaret wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:14 pm
Sorry but this is an awful opinion. He gets a very good assist to a far post runner and that’s where he should be? What?
Currently the highest assister at the World Cup and the joint highest for England ever at a World Cup.
I’m not talking about the one in the second half. My opinion was stated at half time. It was about the rashford chance in the first half. He is our striker. We have players to thread the passes through we would be far better served if he stayed higher up the pitch.
