Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

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jdrobbo
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Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:11 pm

You all know where I stand on our club’s relationship with gambling companies, but here’s a video that I found quite interesting.

Of course, in this instance, the narrative is biased against the gambling companies so please watch with that in mind.

The video was put together by The Big Step…a group of people who are campaigning to bring an end to gambling advertisements and sponsorship in football, all of whom have been harmed by gambling historically.

John

https://twitter.com/the_bigstep/status/ ... nJfDwMjt8A
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by 4midable » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:23 pm

They dont bother me in the slightest
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:28 pm

4midable wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:23 pm
They dont bother me in the slightest
Genuinely pleased to hear that. Thanks for the reply 👍🏻

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Winstonswhite » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:33 pm

Agree with a lot of it, but not sure Toney playing in the Sky Bet Championship whist playing for a team sponsored by a betting company somehow is justification for him placing bets on football, do you?

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:03 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:33 pm
Agree with a lot of it, but not sure Toney playing in the Sky Bet Championship whist playing for a team sponsored by a betting company somehow is justification for him placing bets on football, do you?
No, I agree with most of what you’ve said there, hence my comment about the video being unbalanced in favour of those against gambling firms.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by claptrappers_union » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:17 pm

Apart from Super6 which is a free competition that we play as family occasionally, I don’t gamble.

I’ve seen hundreds of gambling companies come through the door at Turf Moor, on the front of the shirts and on the flashy LED lights, but it doesn’t nothing for me. They are nothing but words with a number 8 somewhere in there.

If football wants to scrap gambling advertising, then alcohol, energy drinks and vaping has to go too in my opinion

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by bfcfan1882 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:48 pm

It’s not you, or me, that they are targeting.

As a non smoker, or even a smoker of B&H, watching the Embassy snooker wouldn’t sway me. That rightly got banned.

As a young football fan, I’d bet tempted to dabble with B365 or whoever - possibly staying within my limits, or possibly going beyond what I could afford. That’s the problem.
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by gawthorpe_view » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:53 pm

I agree with the aims and objectives of Bigstep.
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Middle-agedClaret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:20 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:17 pm


If football wants to scrap gambling advertising, then alcohol, energy drinks and vaping has to go too in my opinion
Excellent idea.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:48 pm

bfcfan1882 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:48 pm
It’s not you, or me, that they are targeting.

As a non smoker, or even a smoker of B&H, watching the Embassy snooker wouldn’t sway me. That rightly got banned.

As a young football fan, I’d bet tempted to dabble with B365 or whoever - possibly staying within my limits, or possibly going beyond what I could afford. That’s the problem.
And pies, hot dogs, mars bars, Pepsi, let’s ban the lot

Your average football fan is over weight, we need to start dishing out soup & salad

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:50 pm

Tagged the wrong person there apologies

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Middle-agedClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:43 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:50 pm
Tagged the wrong person there apologies
Too much Pepsi…

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by clarethomer » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm

Just read that Villa are getting BK8 as a new sponsor following the announcement of Cazoo deal ending.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... 8-25944255

BK8 sponsor us on our training wear I think and were the company that had their deal terminated by Norwich due to over sexualised advertising and a not so clear corporate structure.

Daily Telegraph (can't read the article) also writing about the fact that football clubs cannot be trusted when it comes to getting into bed with gambling firms. Not sure if anyone has a way of getting around the paywall but would be interested to see what they are saying.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Leon_C » Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:28 pm

I find it quite funny that a gambling company might be criticised and a contract annulled because it employed marginally immoral advertising techniques.
It's like choosing a drug dealer based on them being vegan.
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:22 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm
Just read that Villa are getting BK8 as a new sponsor following the announcement of Cazoo deal ending.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... 8-25944255

BK8 sponsor us on our training wear I think and were the company that had their deal terminated by Norwich due to over sexualised advertising and a not so clear corporate structure.

Daily Telegraph (can't read the article) also writing about the fact that football clubs cannot be trusted when it comes to getting into bed with gambling firms. Not sure if anyone has a way of getting around the paywall but would be interested to see what they are saying.
here you go

Aston Villa agree deal with gambling firm dropped by Norwich due to ‘sexualised’ adverts
Deal with gambling company signed weeks before Government is expected to publish white paper on gambling reform

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ualised%2F
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:40 pm

Leon_C wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:28 pm
I find it quite funny that a gambling company might be criticised and a contract annulled because it employed marginally immoral advertising techniques.
It's like choosing a drug dealer based on them being vegan.
Norwich cancelled the deal with them because of their supporters protesting.

They said: “As a club, we’re proud of our place within the local community and our relationship with supporters around the world. We have worked tirelessly for a considerable time building relationships across a wide range of mediums and community projects.

“Whilst we anticipated some negative responses to the announcement of the partnership with a betting company, the club understands the reaction to BK8, their affiliates and other similar brands’ ways of marketing, the values of which do not align with those of the football club.

“On this occasion, we got it wrong. For that, and any offence caused, the club apologises.”

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:13 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:40 pm
Norwich cancelled the deal with them because of their supporters protesting.

They said: “As a club, we’re proud of our place within the local community and our relationship with supporters around the world. We have worked tirelessly for a considerable time building relationships across a wide range of mediums and community projects.

“Whilst we anticipated some negative responses to the announcement of the partnership with a betting company, the club understands the reaction to BK8, their affiliates and other similar brands’ ways of marketing, the values of which do not align with those of the football club.

“On this occasion, we got it wrong. For that, and any offence caused, the club apologises.”
Which is somewhat in contrast to the way the news of BK8 sponsorship at our club was received

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 8#p1894227

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by IanMcL » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:22 pm

Cigarette and gambling adverts have had no effect on me. Just complicating a one armed bandit was more than enough!

Managing to understand an acca is a thousand steps too far.

I would be ok for the club to have such sponsors. I would hope that anyone gullible would receive free help from both club and betting agency.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Boss Hogg » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:12 pm

Where do you stop though ? You can’t ban everything. More people at Turf Moor are probably at risk of heart disease or alcoholism than gambling but we still sell beer and pies and promote it. Doesn’t tempt me to get more drunk or eat more but may with some. Similarly slimming wheels, flashing lights and great odds might be irresistible to some but probably not for most people.
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by DCWat » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:36 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:12 pm
Where do you stop though ? You can’t ban everything. More people at Turf Moor are probably at risk of heart disease or alcoholism than gambling but we still sell beer and pies and promote it. Doesn’t tempt me to get more drunk or eat more but may with some. Similarly slimming wheels, flashing lights and great odds might be irresistible to some but probably not for most people.
Is that like a hamster wheel for people?

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Claret » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:53 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:12 pm
Where do you stop though ? You can’t ban everything. More people at Turf Moor are probably at risk of heart disease or alcoholism than gambling but we still sell beer and pies and promote it. Doesn’t tempt me to get more drunk or eat more but may with some. Similarly slimming wheels, flashing lights and great odds might be irresistible to some but probably not for most people.
I'm not sure exactly where you'd stop but I'm pretty sure it would be well before you'd reach a pie and a pint.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by tarkys_ears » Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:16 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:33 pm
Agree with a lot of it, but not sure Toney playing in the Sky Bet Championship whist playing for a team sponsored by a betting company somehow is justification for him placing bets on football, do you?
Well maybe they should advertise their free play stuff like F1 and it's non-alcoholic beer. Would that differentiate it enough?

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by clarethomer » Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:22 am

An article which again brings a names of current and past sponsors we have had.

You would hope due diligence has been done but it’s seems a bit of a murky world reading this.
D490B41E-8497-4505-8B20-A5FF8609B229.jpeg
D490B41E-8497-4505-8B20-A5FF8609B229.jpeg (1.04 MiB) Viewed 1962 times

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:46 am

clarethomer wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:22 am
An article which again brings a names of current and past sponsors we have had.

You would hope due diligence has been done but it’s seems a bit of a murky world reading this.

D490B41E-8497-4505-8B20-A5FF8609B229.jpeg
I posted it last night on the MMT thread, if anyone wants to read it
Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:19 am
It feels like we have been here before with Philippe Auclair and an investigative series in the football journal Josimar a couple of years back during the first Covid Lockdown I think

Warning it features our sponsors BK8 - from the Daily Mail

MPs call for investigation into extraordinary story of 10 Premier League clubs with eight online betting partners targeting Asia, all linked to one company in the Isle of Man - and its mysterious ties to Chinese 'triad' who's just been jailed for 18 years
- Chinese billionaire Alvin Chau was recently sentenced to 18 years in prison
- Chau has ties with a British tech company working with clubs' betting partners
- The Premier League have faced calls from MPs for these links to be investigated

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... tners.html
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:52 am

Does this honestly surprise anyone? 🤷‍♂️

Get it out of our club! Get it out of football!
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:33 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:22 pm
here you go

Aston Villa agree deal with gambling firm dropped by Norwich due to ‘sexualised’ adverts
Deal with gambling company signed weeks before Government is expected to publish white paper on gambling reform

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ualised%2F
I am finding it interesting that while this BK8 rumbles on in the media in regards to Aston Villa our club is getting off without a mention - is it:
- our own fans general apathy (which I personally find quite disappointing)?
- media ignorance?
- or double standards in regards to the Premier League vs EFL?

Aston Villa refuse to U-turn on new controversial shirt sponsor after fan backlash
Telegraph Sport disclosed details earlier this month of the club's new advertising deal with online casino BK8

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... sor-fan%2F

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:14 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:33 pm
- our own fans general apathy (which I personally find quite disappointing)?
Very disappointing and it needs to change, not just in this particular case.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by CoolClaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:24 pm

I can do with a shirt sponsor and things of that nature - the thing I can’t stand is when live odds are advertised and bombarded on content that I consume - I remember I used to commute listening to talksport sometimes and for any night games on drive they’d always have paddy power on pushing odds that I found pretty overbearing

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:17 pm

posted this on the MMT - where there is a lot about the white label gambling companies that sponsor British football - but just as relevant here

Philippe Auclair has written a new piece for Josimar Football about BK8

In the name of charity
Aston Villa FC have just signed a three-year, eight-figure sponsorship deal with BK8, a gambling operator which is licensed in the United Kingdom but carries out its activities almost exclusively in Far Eastern countries where sports gambling is illegal.

https://josimarfootball.com/2023/06/23/ ... f-charity/
https://archive.is/IIJln

He was on Mark Saggers show last night with a member of the Villa Trust talking about it

then today he revealed that the company that owns the UK trademark for BK8 (Black Hawk Technologies Ltd) was issued a first gazette notice on the 2nd of May for failing to file both Accounts and Confirmation Statement on time - sounds familiar doesn't it)
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/sta ... vkxLguAAAA

still they have until Sunday 2nd July to comply

Image

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:15 am

Interesting piece in the Guardian today about just how often (and how many individual times) a gambling logo appears in a televised Premier League game

Betting firm logos shown on TV up to 3,500 times in Premier League matches, study finds
Average was once every 16 seconds across 10 matches last season, with a total of 3,522 in West Ham v Chelsea

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ier-league
https://archive.is/QwYp5

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:20 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:17 pm
posted this on the MMT - where there is a lot about the white label gambling companies that sponsor British football - but just as relevant here

Philippe Auclair has written a new piece for Josimar Football about BK8

In the name of charity
Aston Villa FC have just signed a three-year, eight-figure sponsorship deal with BK8, a gambling operator which is licensed in the United Kingdom but carries out its activities almost exclusively in Far Eastern countries where sports gambling is illegal.

https://josimarfootball.com/2023/06/23/ ... f-charity/
https://archive.is/IIJln

He was on Mark Saggers show last night with a member of the Villa Trust talking about it

then today he revealed that the company that owns the UK trademark for BK8 (Black Hawk Technologies Ltd) was issued a first gazette notice on the 2nd of May for failing to file both Accounts and Confirmation Statement on time - sounds familiar doesn't it)
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/sta ... vkxLguAAAA

still they have until Sunday 2nd July to comply

Image
It seems like Black Hawk Technology (owners of the BK8 trademark) made their confirmation statement filing (with no changes) by the skin of their teeth to avoid being dissolved - Accounts were filed mid June

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:47 am

The Guardian with a clear opinion of front of shirt sponsorship by Gambling companies in the Premier League - as part of their 2023/24 season kit reviews - this is the opening paragraph for each club that has a gambling sponsor

Congrats to XXXXXXX, who, in a country in which hundreds of people addicted to gambling kill themselves each year, introduce betting company YYYYY as their front-of-shirt sponsor. Well played, guys!
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-kits

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:08 am

Brilliant!!

We keep banging that drum

Get it off our shirts and out of the grounds.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by JR1882 » Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:24 am

Very murky world indeed.

In general however, in this country we really do need to separate

- sports betting which is enjoyable and not dangerous for 99% of people and where you can, with the right knowledge, have a reasonable chance at predicting the outcome.

- slots/casino/online games which people get addicted to, which involve no level of skill and have a pre determined outcome in many cases.

Those are 2 very different things, with 2 very different people playing them, but we just call it all “gambling”
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:08 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:47 am
The Guardian with a clear opinion of front of shirt sponsorship by Gambling companies in the Premier League - as part of their 2023/24 season kit reviews - this is the opening paragraph for each club that has a gambling sponsor

Congrats to XXXXXXX, who, in a country in which hundreds of people addicted to gambling kill themselves each year, introduce betting company YYYYY as their front-of-shirt sponsor. Well played, guys!
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-kits
No news yet on the keeper or third kits.
Not a very well researched article for our section considering the third shirt was released last week, the keeper kit was shown on the announcement of Trafford signing, on top of all they have to do is look for any team Umbro supply and the keeper kits will be the same

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:10 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:08 am
Not a very well researched article for our section considering the third shirt was released last week, the keeper kit was shown on the announcement of Trafford signing, on top of all they have to do is look for any team Umbro supply and the keeper kits will be the same
Too busy being seen to be worthy about gambling to bother doing research about the actual topic.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:15 am

DandeClaret's post didn't last long. It wasn't inaccurate was it?

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:21 am

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:15 am
DandeClaret's post didn't last long. It wasn't inaccurate was it?
No, he will likely have deleted it himself. Nothing like an unnecessary swipe eh?

I suspect he’ll repost, which is more than his right as he sits on the other side of the fence and his opinion is always welcomed. Not sure why snide dig at moderators (of which you know he is one) was very cool.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:23 am

Bit defensive? tbh the preachy posts about gambling get a bit old and it does lead to a bit of suspicion when posts offering a contrary opinion disappear.

Simple as that

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:26 am

Maybe its me living in a less prescriptive and more permissive society :lol:

My local newsagent has an offer on at the moment where if you by 15 packs of fags, you get a free bottle of vodka :lol:

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:27 am

I did delete it - conversation doesn't move forward, as people have well established strong beliefs, so took it out rather than go round in circles again.

Not a moderator though JDR - you'll be getting some people worried.
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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:28 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:27 am
I did delete it - conversation doesn't move forward, as people have well established strong beliefs, so took it out rather than go round in circles again.

Not a moderator though JDR - you'll be getting some people worried.
I stand corrected :)

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:31 am

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:23 am
Bit defensive? tbh the preachy posts about gambling get a bit old and it does lead to a bit of suspicion when posts offering a contrary opinion disappear.

Simple as that
I would argue that it’s not defensive, but being straight to the point. You know full well that I have engaged with Dan on every single discussion and I completely respect his opinion. Never once has there been a spat, never once has there been content deleted… that just suits your narrative. Dan often tries to back up his own posts with information to the contrary and highlights what are the betting industry is actually doing to try and help people. The fact that you just find a posts a bit old basically means you’re fed up of seeing them and consequently, you feel that I’d mess around with other user’s posts just to frame my own narrative. I’m better than that and I sense (hope) you know that too.

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by martin_p » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am

I think at some point personal responsibility comes into this. A very, very small percentage of those who enjoy gambling become addicted and, unlike smoking, if I gamble responsibly I’m not negatively impacting the health of myself or anyone who happens to be standing near me. I don’t think it’s down to the government or anyone else to legislate against an industry that for the overwhelming majority is an entertaining pastime. I can see the argument for better monitoring and protection to try and prevent addiction, but for me banning advertising isn’t the answer.
This user liked this post: Oshkoshclaret

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:26 am
Maybe its me living in a less prescriptive and more permissive society :lol:

My local newsagent has an offer on at the moment where if you by 15 packs of fags, you get a free bottle of vodka :lol:
Good grief 😂😆

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am

There was content deleted, the misapprehension was who by :)

Still, we move on

UTC

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:27 am
I did delete it - conversation doesn't move forward, as people have well established strong beliefs, so took it out rather than go round in circles again.

Not a moderator though JDR - you'll be getting some people worried.
I am worried myself now 😆

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:34 am

jdrobbo wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am
Good grief 😂😆
Aye, it does still surprise me occasionally living here even after 9 years

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:36 am

Ironically, it is a ballache getting a gambling account set up with a bookie here. You have to register and then confirm your registration with your passport or other ID in person at their betting shops. Consequently i haven't as yet got a Czech account set up

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Re: Gambling endorsements and advertisements in our game

Post by jdrobbo » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:37 am

martin_p wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:33 am
I think at some point personal responsibility comes into this. A very, very small percentage of those who enjoy gambling become addicted and, unlike smoking, if I gamble responsibly I’m not negatively impacting the health of myself or anyone who happens to be standing near me. I don’t think it’s down to the government or anyone else to legislate against an industry that for the overwhelming majority is an entertaining pastime. I can see the argument for better monitoring and protection to try and prevent addiction, but for me banning advertising isn’t the answer.
Good post. Based on this, would I be right to assume that you would be okay seeing a return to alcohol sponsorship on shirts? Or perhaps even tobacco/vaping products?

The vast majority of people around the world (who choose to) can enjoy a few drinks and the occasional cigarette, without it causing long-term affects to their health.

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