England v Senegal WC R16

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Casper
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Casper » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:40 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:19 pm
you must have me mixed up with someone else, point to me once, in the history of this forum that I've claimed to be an expert ? What a complete tool
Obviously touched a nerve, hence the abuse .

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by agreenwood » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:40 pm

By some distance England face the best side they’ve faced so far next Saturday…..and so do France.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by bfcjg » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:44 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:21 pm
Not in any way shape or form saying he should have to, but it does surprise me that these lads on hundreds of thousands of pounds per week don't employ security teams especially with them spending so much time away from home. This has been happening for years (especially with Liverpool players)
The **** who use following England as an excuse to cause mayhem and violence didn't travel to Qatar as they knew they would be severely punished, such a shame we live in a country where there is no severe punishment so vermin aren't frightened of committing crime. Hope Sterling's family are OK. To think we in the West have the audacity to lecture countries like Qatar.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:44 pm

LTUK89 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:36 pm
Why’s everyone falling out? We’ve just gone through to the world cup quarter finals.
People would fall out even if England managed to win the thing ..

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by claretspice » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:48 pm

This England team are two players- an athletic snd physical centre back, and a midfield distributor- short of being absolutely top drawer.

Bur it's the nature of international football that most teams, even successful ones, have that same issue. The key is to recognise it, and when England stopped playing short into midfield and trying to be a possession team, and focused on overpowering the opposition by playing high up the park, they absolutely battered a very respectable Senegal team. France will obviously be a step up but the template is there.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:48 pm

Casper wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:40 pm
Obviously touched a nerve, hence the abuse .
No abuse, just stating the obvious

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by gsyclaret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:52 pm

Gareth is well aware that we started slowly so he will sort it

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:56 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:39 pm
Errrr this is UTC folk can fall out over anything on here 🤣🤣🤣

Good innit ... getting to the WC Quarters
No they can't ;)
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bosscat » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:57 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:56 pm
No they can't ;)
Ive told I can't argue untill you pay ..........
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:58 pm

Na na na nananana, nannana, hey Jude.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:11 pm

Great result with some good forward play.
The middle of that defence needs a bit of improvement. As for playing out...risky to say the least.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Jellybean » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:17 pm

Midfield need to have the game of their lives supporting the defence, but hopefully our forwards will do the business at the other end. Love the young players and their confidence, no bowing to the pressure when so many before them have crumbled.



MOD: ALL…please refrain from racism of any form. Casual racism is not welcome here. Thanks to those who reported TopClarets post. A one month ban has been issued.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:26 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:10 pm
without wanting to compare him as such, Bellingham reminds me of Zidane in terms of his balance and physique
He's very good!......Two-footed, get's it forward quickly...hard to believe he's only 19.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Stayingup » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:27 pm

agreenwood wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:40 pm
By some distance England face the best side they’ve faced so far next Saturday…..and so do France.
Really looking forward to this. Some exceptional talent on both teams and also two organized and exciting teams.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:28 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:30 pm
don't know about anyone else but I've enjoyed not seeing ****** up wankers fighting in the streets before and after every game, made it a much better tournament so far
It's kept them away ...having no alcohol.
The England cheering section now looks like Dads Army.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Vintage Claret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:30 pm

Think Pickford needs a lot of credit for his contribution to that win- brilliant one handed save to deny Senegal a 1-0 lead.

We seemed to really buck up from that point and never looked in any danger when we scored not long after.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bosscat » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:30 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:26 pm
He's very good!......Two-footed, get's it forward quickly...hard to believe he's only 19.
And his value is rising exponentially with every game at this WC 🙂

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:38 pm

Heard a rumor Man City want to offload Grealish & buy Bellingham.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by fidelcastro » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:40 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:38 pm
Heard a rumor Man City want to offload Grealish & buy Bellingham.
They can afford both.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:48 pm

I suspect Liverpool will want a quick sale so they can go for him, would be perfect for them. If City get him you might as well write their name on the PL trophy until Pep quits

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by JMU81 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:51 pm

If Kylian Mbappé was from round these parts he would be known as Kylian Mbalmcake..........

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Jellybean » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:12 pm

Jellybean wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:17 pm
Midfield need to have the game of their lives supporting the defence, but hopefully our forwards will do the business at the other end. Love the young players and their confidence, no bowing to the pressure when so many before them have crumbled.



MOD: ALL…please refrain from racism of any form. Casual racism is not welcome here. Thanks to those who reported TopClaret’s post. A one month ban has been issued.
Can anyone explain where the racism is in my post? I'm absolutely baffled?




MOD: Jellybean, there is no racism in your posts. Yours was the latest message so was edited over to alert people. TopClaret was banned for being racist towards Senegalese people. Apologies. Previous messages edited to add clarity.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by tiger76 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:15 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:30 pm
Think Pickford needs a lot of credit for his contribution to that win- brilliant one handed save to deny Senegal a 1-0 lead.

We seemed to really buck up from that point and never looked in any danger when we scored not long after.
Yes that was a key 5 minute spell in the match, if Senegal had taken the lead who knows how the rest of the game would have panned out.

Pickford hasn't had a huge amount to do during this tournament so far, however when he's been called upon he's been solid in his keeping.

Saturday might well see him rather busier though.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bosscat » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:18 pm

JMU81 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:51 pm
If Kylian Mbappé was from round these parts he would be known as Kylian Mbalmcake..........
🤔🤔🤔

Gotcha 👍🤭👍

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Vintage Claret » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:33 pm

JMU81 wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:51 pm
If Kylian Mbappé was from round these parts he would be known as Kylian Mbalmcake..........
Or Kylian Mteacakee..

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:41 pm

Ive been out in town watching us thrash Senegal so I've no idea about the mental gymnastics the anti Southgate (England) mob are trying to perform to discredit yet another top draw performance but let me put it simply like this

In the last 15 years England have struggled in the group stages against the weaker sides and when we've finally played one of the top 8 we've hoped we can compete and somehow grind out a result against the run of play.

In the last 6 years under Southgate we've become a team that breezes through qualifying, strolls through the groups stages and when we finally come up against a big team like Germany and Italy in the Euros and France next week we aren't hoping to hold on for derar life, try and nick a goal and cause a shock but instead for the first time in over 25 years we look and play like we are capable of beating the other top teams with our footballing quality and not with a bit of luck

We might well get beat off France on Saturday because like us they are a top top team. The big difference with England now under Southgate is that we will go out to out play them, out football then and outscore them which is a world away from the England we supported between Sven and Southgate
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:13 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:28 pm
It's kept them away ...having no alcohol.
The England cheering section now looks like Dads Army.
Think it's more to do with younger people not being able to afford it. Just to go for a week you're talking thousands of pounds.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:28 am

On the football, good performance but Southgate’s teams don’t score any goals from open play, you only have to look at his time at Middlesbrough for proof of this.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:27 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:24 am
Can I ask why a racist post only leads to a one month ban? Is that really a sufficient way to deal with this?
Are you sure it was deliberately racist or the post of someone lacking social awareness attempting satire? Humour that makes us think is vital and is under attack. Even before democracy Satire has been employed to both ridicule, challenge and question. As often as not… did I laugh, what does that say about me? I didn’t and I found it very interesting… I would have 30 years ago, now I had to work to make the connection… which kind of makes it satire. And me proud at how far I’ve come, as the world around me has changed.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by claretandy » Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:19 am

Senegal should have been 2-0 up, Mbappe and Dembele are a few steps up from Sarr and Ndiaye. Lets hope we have learned our lesson; we are not good enough to play out from the back.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Woodleyclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:57 am

Why the nonsense of playing sideways and across the back against a side falling back to defend.?
A nonsense tactic that will backfire if tried against a speedy side like France
France are beatable the trick is to go man for man on Greismann he is the French Josh Cullen, pulling the strings in all the moves.Lloris is also vulnerable with some questionable goalkeeping at times.Mpappe though is a class act but hates a tackle so we need to go for Rovers style serial hacking.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by arise_sir_charge » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:32 am

claretandy wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:19 am
Senegal should have been 2-0 up, Mbappe and Dembele are a few steps up from Sarr and Ndiaye. Lets hope we have learned our lesson; we are not good enough to play out from the back.
This attitude drives me mad, it’s the old John Motson outlook. England would batter someone and then they’d have a shot and he’d immediately say “it could be one nil”. Yes John equally it could be 4-1.

An opposition team is allowed to create chances and we are allowed a goalkeeper to save them and there is no way of knowing that if chance one goes in would chance two come along etc.

For me, we started well, lost our way after a couple of misplaced passes but then took control of the game completely and attacked with pace and flare. A great performance.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:32 am

We are a very decent team aren't we?

We've certainly got a chance on Sat

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:35 am

Up to now, in major tournaments, Southgate has played three good sides, with the fourth coming on Saturday.

Let’s hope we do better than against Belgium and Croatia in 2018 and Italy last year. Before anyone says ‘what about Germany?’ in the euros.. they haven’t made it out of the groups in the last two World Cups. Hardly elite.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by RVclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:52 am

England won six knock-out games in major tournaments from 1968 to 2016.

Gareth Southgate has won six from 2018 to 2022.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:15 am

People can knock GS as much as they want ,with the flip side being we’ve played some dreadful sides “ top prem vs mid level champ “ springs to mind .You can only beat what’s put in front of you though and we’ve been very smooth .

France was always our benchmark and if we lose we lose , but blaming GS will be for the loons .

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:26 am

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:27 am
Are you sure it was deliberately racist or the post of someone lacking social awareness attempting satire? Humour that makes us think is vital and is under attack. Even before democracy Satire has been employed to both ridicule, challenge and question. As often as not… did I laugh, what does that say about me? I didn’t and I found it very interesting… I would have 30 years ago, now I had to work to make the connection… which kind of makes it satire. And me proud at how far I’ve come, as the world around me has changed.
I didn’t see the post. I just saw a message from a moderator saying that casual racism won’t be tolerated on here and that the offender has been given a one month ban. I’m just questioning whether a one month ban is really a sufficient way to deal with racism on here. I would suggest not.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:32 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:52 am
England won six knock-out games in major tournaments from 1968 to 2016.

Gareth Southgate has won six from 2018 to 2022.
Yet people still question him

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:26 am
I didn’t see the post. I just saw a message from a moderator saying that casual racism won’t be tolerated on here and that the offender has been given a one month ban. I’m just questioning whether a one month ban is really a sufficient way to deal with racism on here. I would suggest not.
It is a step in the right direction, many a time racist comments have been made on here then the comments removed and poster allowed to continue with no ban. Eventually we will reach a stage where they are banned for good and a ,lot harder to just re-join under a new name

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:56 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:52 am
It is a step in the right direction, many a time racist comments have been made on here then the comments removed and poster allowed to continue with no ban. Eventually we will reach a stage where they are banned for good and a ,lot harder to just re-join under a new name
Fair point.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:48 am

By any measure Southgate is (currently) the second best manager England have ever had.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by tiger76 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:51 am

In England's 3 major tournaments under Southgate we've reached.

A semi-final in 2018 where we lost narrowly to Croatia in ET.

A final in 2020 where we lost out on pens to Italy.

And now a quarter final in 2022.

Now given that prior to that we struggled to get out of the groups, or under McClaren failed to qualify, then his record stands well alongside previous England managers.

Saturday will be a huge test, but equally it will be a huge test for France.

England have scored 12 goals in 4 games, but the stat which really catches my eye is those 12 goals have been scored by 8 different scorers, and that shows we now possess threats from all over the pitch rather than just relying on one player.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:12 am

Decisive finishing made the difference. May it continue against France.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by KRBFC » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:52 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:41 pm
Ive been out in town watching us thrash Senegal so I've no idea about the mental gymnastics the anti Southgate (England) mob are trying to perform to discredit yet another top draw performance but let me put it simply like this

In the last 15 years England have struggled in the group stages against the weaker sides and when we've finally played one of the top 8 we've hoped we can compete and somehow grind out a result against the run of play.

In the last 6 years under Southgate we've become a team that breezes through qualifying, strolls through the groups stages and when we finally come up against a big team like Germany and Italy in the Euros and France next week we aren't hoping to hold on for derar life, try and nick a goal and cause a shock but instead for the first time in over 25 years we look and play like we are capable of beating the other top teams with our footballing quality and not with a bit of luck

We might well get beat off France on Saturday because like us they are a top top team. The big difference with England now under Southgate is that we will go out to out play them, out football then and outscore them which is a world away from the England we supported between Sven and Southgate
Don't worry DA, I'm schooling these fools in your absence.

Sure feels good not losing to Iceland and USA. We didn't even qualify for the Euros under Mclaren yet people have the audacity to whine when we reach the final.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:00 pm

Imagine constantly crying about a team that’s doing well.
Over and over and over again.

Who does that?

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:01 pm

The Southgate bashing has been fairly quiet on here this tournament, a lot of posters seem to have gone AWOL. No doubt we'll see them shortly, more than likely on Saturday when we face quite possibly the best side in the world. The simpletons will call a defeat to France a failure.

Interestingly the match thread against the USA in what turned into non-event of a match attracted more posts than any of other England's games which tells it's own story.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:15 pm

Looking back, I guess quite a few of my posts could constitute 'Southgate bashing' but that's not as intended. It's more to give a reality check to his record. He's not really much better or worse than any other England manager. Major tournaments are only every couple of years and you often play less than half a dozen matches. It's such a small pool of games to make a reasonable judgement on.

How well you're doing is largely dependent on how your draw is in any given tournament. Hodgson lost to Iceland. Keegan lost to a good Romania side once, which I guess could be called a disappointment but mostly we do as we'd expect to do. When was the last time - and I don't mean just Southgate here - did England beat a really top side at a major tournament? He's never done it, but to be fair, I'm struggling to think of any England manager that has in recent times.

We beat a few trundlers, get a bit giddy, then whenever we've faced a real class outfit - Argentina, Germany back in the day, Brazil, Portugal with peak Ronaldo.. Belgium, Croatia, Italy.. we lose. A win against this France side, and I'll be eating a mountain of humble pie, but I really can't see it.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Winstonswhite » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:35 pm

Here’s a question.

Have England ever won a match in a major tournament, as the underdog?

I don’t think it’s happened before, and our luck has to change by the law of averages, eventually.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:42 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:26 am
I didn’t see the post. I just saw a message from a moderator saying that casual racism won’t be tolerated on here and that the offender has been given a one month ban. I’m just questioning whether a one month ban is really a sufficient way to deal with racism on here. I would suggest not.
I saw it and it was typical of ‘laddish humour’ of the 1990’s. Not acceptable, but relying on outdated stereotyping. I had nothing to do with it, but would not want to be the one pulling the trigger permanently without knowing mitigation. I think the clue is the ‘casual’ rather than ‘overt’… Education relies on second chances and I hope the moderator involved spelled out the reason for the ban to the poster so they may reflect and adapt. I know the poster has a long history with the board… possibly it is very out of character or maybe a more senior moderator is needed to review? Just guessing there may be mitigation - and as I said I did not find it funny simply because I had to work to remember the out dated stereotype the joke relied on for meaning; to me suggesting lack of modern social awareness on the posters part.

Rileybobs
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:44 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:15 pm
Looking back, I guess quite a few of my posts could constitute 'Southgate bashing' but that's not as intended. It's more to give a reality check to his record. He's not really much better or worse than any other England manager. Major tournaments are only every couple of years and you often play less than half a dozen matches. It's such a small pool of games to make a reasonable judgement on.

How well you're doing is largely dependent on how your draw is in any given tournament. Hodgson lost to Iceland. Keegan lost to a good Romania side once, which I guess could be called a disappointment but mostly we do as we'd expect to do. When was the last time - and I don't mean just Southgate here - did England beat a really top side at a major tournament? He's never done it, but to be fair, I'm struggling to think of any England manager that has in recent times.

We beat a few trundlers, get a bit giddy, then whenever we've faced a real class outfit - Argentina, Germany back in the day, Brazil, Portugal with peak Ronaldo.. Belgium, Croatia, Italy.. we lose. A win against this France side, and I'll be eating a mountain of humble pie, but I really can't see it.
To be honest I wouldn't put you down as one of the Southgate bashers. The thing is, I don't see anybody claiming that he's a tactical genius or elite manager, but there are plenty on the opposite end of the spectrum who have nothing positive to say about him. I haven't checked RV's facts regarding England knockout wins, but if it's true that England have won as many tournament knockout games in the 4 years under Southgate than we had in the previous 48 years then it kind of debunks your argument that he's not really much better or worse than any other England manager. His record proves that he very clearly is.

You're right that we haven't beat many 'real class outfits', but I don't think it's as simple as splitting international teams into two categories; the very best sides in the world and the 'average' rest. I also don't think you do yourself any favours by discounting Germany as a top side (despite not being as strong as other seasons), and classing the 2018 Croatia side in that category but discounting them in 2020. If anything I would argue that Croatia in 2018 and even Italy in 2020 weren't really 'class outfits'.

There can only be one winner of any tournament and there were definitely tactical deficiencies shown against both Croatia and Italy, but we had no right to win either of those tournaments and before a ball was kicked I doubt many thought we would do. It's amusing how a couple of penalty kicks could have lead to a total transformation of Southgate's reputation, although I suspect that those who have derided him from the beginning would have found some way to take the credit for him, like they will if we get past France on Saturday.

FWIW, I think we'll come unstuck against France, I think they're probably a stronger side than us and will expose our defensive frailties. But there would be no shame at all to lose that game. I also think it may be time for Southgate to step aside after this tournament, but I think you'd have to have an axe to grind to call his tenure anything other than a success, regardless of how we fare in the coming couple of weeks.
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