England v Senegal WC R16

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Rileybobs
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:49 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:42 pm
I saw it and it was typical of ‘laddish humour’ of the 1990’s. Not acceptable, but relying on outdated stereotyping. I had nothing to do with it, but would not want to be the one pulling the trigger permanently without knowing mitigation. I think the clue is the ‘casual’ rather than ‘overt’… Education relies on second chances and I hope the moderator involved spelled out the reason for the ban to the poster so they may reflect and adapt. I know the poster has a long history with the board… possibly it is very out of character or maybe a more senior moderator is needed to review? Just guessing there may be mitigation - and as I said I did not find it funny simply because I had to work to remember the out dated stereotype the joke relied on for meaning; to me suggesting lack of modern social awareness on the posters part.
Thanks for your explanation, and having seen the post you're better informed than me. I'm glad that it's not tolerated, and equally glad that the reason for the ban has been made public. There's very little outright racism on this messageboard, but there is a lot of implied/casual/overt (call it what you will) racism which seems to go unpunished - similarly misogyny which seems to get a complete free pass. Threads get deleted, sometimes posters disappear, but often without a reason given, so it's a good thing that this is communicated.

Tall Paul
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:07 pm

Didn't see the post either but I think it's safe to say that it woudn't have been out of character for that poster.

As for England and Southgate, winning the games they're "supposed to" is an achievement in itself compared to the previous incumbents.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:24 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:35 pm
Here’s a question.

Have England ever won a match in a major tournament, as the underdog?

I don’t think it’s happened before, and our luck has to change by the law of averages, eventually.
Yeah, that's what i was wondering really. It's not a Southgate thing, but England as far back as I've been watching.. roughly '86. Plenty of hard luck stories and what might have beens.. but generally our finest hours have come against the likes of Denmark, Cameroon or Paraguay. I can't think of one where we've come up against a top side in a make or break game and won it.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:29 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:52 am
Don't worry DA, I'm schooling these fools in your absence.

Sure feels good not losing to Iceland and USA. We didn't even qualify for the Euros under Mclaren yet people have the audacity to whine when we reach the final.
[/quote

:lol:

Schooling as in getting pi$$Ed, watching the game and telling us the first 35 minutes of last night's game were of a good enough standard to see off France?

Stick to your gaming, bud, and/or lay off the ale.

We played remarkably well and were in no danger whatsoever - once we'd got that dithering out of the way.
Nothing wrong with keeping possession, nice and safely but when you start giving it away, cheaply, a very good side will punish you.

FWIW, I don't think we'll give France that chance.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:34 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:49 pm
Thanks for your explanation, and having seen the post you're better informed than me. I'm glad that it's not tolerated, and equally glad that the reason for the ban has been made public. There's very little outright racism on this messageboard, but there is a lot of implied/casual/overt (call it what you will) racism which seems to go unpunished - similarly misogyny which seems to get a complete free pass. Threads get deleted, sometimes posters disappear, but often without a reason given, so it's a good thing that this is communicated.
At the end of the day it is why we deserted Claretsmad en masse to move over here. Nobody wants the slagging match that became, and the moderators have to act in an even handed and arbitrary manner trying to defend the board, in everyone’s best interest. A moderator needs to be pretty sure of their ground before issuing life bans or risk complete tribalisation of the board. Some, like one I was involved with are pretty clear cut and I have no regrets that my action resulted in a permanent exclusion by a moderator as the poster had clearly joined to cause havoc.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by fidelcastro » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:35 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:07 pm
Didn't see the post either but I think it's safe to say that it woudn't have been out of character for that poster.

As for England and Southgate, winning the games they're "supposed to" is an achievement in itself compared to the previous incumbents.
Basically, the poster was repeating the old Alan Sugar tweet about Senegal players and watch venders. Poor taste really.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:44 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:24 pm
Yeah, that's what i was wondering really. It's not a Southgate thing, but England as far back as I've been watching.. roughly '86. Plenty of hard luck stories and what might have beens.. but generally our finest hours have come against the likes of Denmark, Cameroon or Paraguay. I can't think of one where we've come up against a top side in a make or break game and won it.
Netherlands and Spain in Euro 96?

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:56 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:44 pm
Netherlands and Spain in Euro 96?
Netherlands was a fine performance but still a group match. Spain is a really good shout, they were a good side and we did well to get past them so yeah, I agree with that. We should have won that tournament but another hard luck story ultimately.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by KRBFC » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:08 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:29 pm
'' telling us the first 35 minutes of last night's game were of a good enough standard to see off France?''


I never ever said we will beat France, nevermind saying the first 35 minutes were good enough to beat France, that's just silly talk. You're acting very political here, you're arguing against something I didn't say lol. Basically arguing with yourself.

In my mind France are favourites to lift the WC, it will be an incredibly difficult task, head says 2-1 France. No shame in losing to France.

What I said about the first 35 minutes were in the previous games, we haven't scored inside the first 35 minutes (and haven't been losing) which means whining during that period whilst the score is level sets yourself up to look incredibly foolish. People should wait until we're at least losing to get their digs in at Southgate, English people willing the team to fail to dig at the one guy who has brought England hope with the national team for the first time in a long long time.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:09 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:16 pm
Crazy to think some experts didn’t want Foden in this team.
Nobody who knows anything about football would ever say not to start Foden. He was the obvious one.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:11 pm

So far, my thoughts are: Get the ball into midfield as quickly as possible.

Our central defence is FAR TOO SLOW!

They lack vision. Sure, they can defend when the ball is in the air, but when the football is on the ground we should allow them to have as least amount of possession as humanly possible. Far too slow at turning - lack vision - release the ball into central midfield immediately.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by KRBFC » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:14 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:44 pm
To be honest I wouldn't put you down as one of the Southgate bashers. The thing is, I don't see anybody claiming that he's a tactical genius or elite manager, but there are plenty on the opposite end of the spectrum who have nothing positive to say about him. I haven't checked RV's facts regarding England knockout wins, but if it's true that England have won as many tournament knockout games in the 4 years under Southgate than we had in the previous 48 years then it kind of debunks your argument that he's not really much better or worse than any other England manager. His record proves that he very clearly is.

You're right that we haven't beat many 'real class outfits', but I don't think it's as simple as splitting international teams into two categories; the very best sides in the world and the 'average' rest. I also don't think you do yourself any favours by discounting Germany as a top side (despite not being as strong as other seasons), and classing the 2018 Croatia side in that category but discounting them in 2020. If anything I would argue that Croatia in 2018 and even Italy in 2020 weren't really 'class outfits'.

There can only be one winner of any tournament and there were definitely tactical deficiencies shown against both Croatia and Italy, but we had no right to win either of those tournaments and before a ball was kicked I doubt many thought we would do. It's amusing how a couple of penalty kicks could have lead to a total transformation of Southgate's reputation, although I suspect that those who have derided him from the beginning would have found some way to take the credit for him, like they will if we get past France on Saturday.

FWIW, I think we'll come unstuck against France, I think they're probably a stronger side than us and will expose our defensive frailties. But there would be no shame at all to lose that game. I also think it may be time for Southgate to step aside after this tournament, but I think you'd have to have an axe to grind to call his tenure anything other than a success, regardless of how we fare in the coming couple of weeks.
I agree with everything you say, the reason I support Southgate is because he's made me emotionally connected to the National side again. All I've ever known is great English teams on paper crumble and underperform, playing like a bunch of strangers. Struggling in group stages and bottling knockout rounds. Say whatever you want about Southgate but he's built a national team the nation can be proud of and one the nation should support.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:45 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:56 pm
Netherlands was a fine performance but still a group match. Spain is a really good shout, they were a good side and we did well to get past them so yeah, I agree with that. We should have won that tournament but another hard luck story ultimately.
This is a good example of how things are framed against giving Southgate credit. We quickly write off a win against Germany stating they arent the Germany they used to be but then think of Spain as a much better win when the 90's Spain teams had the following record

1990 - Last 16
1992 - Did not Qualify
1994 - Quarter Finals
1996 - Quarter Finals
1998 - Group Stage

Also we were outplayed by Spain who has a good goal disallowed and we only beat them on penalties where as we beat Germany by a couple of goals in 90 mins
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:50 pm

Some of you want England to lose, I can tell.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:37 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:08 pm
'' telling us the first 35 minutes of last night's game were of a good enough standard to see off France?''


I never ever said we will beat France, nevermind saying the first 35 minutes were good enough to beat France, that's just silly talk. You're acting very political here, you're arguing against something I didn't say lol. Basically arguing with yourself.

In my mind France are favourites to lift the WC, it will be an incredibly difficult task, head says 2-1 France. No shame in losing to France.

What I said about the first 35 minutes were in the previous games, we haven't scored inside the first 35 minutes (and haven't been losing) which means whining during that period whilst the score is level sets yourself up to look incredibly foolish. People should wait until we're at least losing to get their digs in at Southgate, English people willing the team to fail to dig at the one guy who has brought England hope with the national team for the first time in a long long time.

To be fair, I didn't read much whining but did see an amount of fair and justified misgivings at our lame start when, as even you could spot, we were slow and starting to give the ball away cheaply. This, being a football forum, had posts reflecting that.
As it turned out, of course, we avoided disaster by stepping it up a tad, as asked for by many on here, and got the rewards and I'm delighted we did. I'm not the Super England fan that you've suddenly hatched into but hey ho, I can appreciate a good overall performance when I see it.

Nothing political about that, surely. :lol:

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Nori1958 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:58 pm

burnleychris wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:50 pm
Some of you want England to lose, I can tell.
Probably the Welsh, Scots and Irish on here... No problem, I'd be the same if it was the other way round.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by RVclaret » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm

England have now scored 24 goals in the last two World Cups under Gareth Safegate - exactly as many as they scored in the five previous World Cups combined.
Last edited by RVclaret on Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Nori1958 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm

burnleychris wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:59 pm
Like I say on the other thread - it's attention-seekers. "Look at me, I'm a vegan and not watching the World Cup - oh, and I've not had my vaccine". Give me a break. If you aren't watching, don't post about it.
???

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:15 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm
???
As it says on the tin. People are being controversial by saying they aren't watching. They want to stand out. Not difficult to understand.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:17 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:05 pm
Why would vegans not watch the World Cup?

Or people who have not had a vaccination?
Go back to school.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Nori1958 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:20 pm

burnleychris wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:15 pm
As it says on the tin. People are being controversial by saying they aren't watching. They want to stand out. Not difficult to understand.
I wasn't discussing people not watching, but replying to your comment that some don't want England to win, so it was difficult to understand, as it had nothing to do with my post, or even yours which I was replying to.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:21 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:20 pm
I wasn't discussing people not watching, but replying to your comment that some don't want England to win, so it was difficult to understand, as it had nothing to do with my post, or even yours which I was replying to.
Your reply suggested it was in reply to why I said some people aren't watching. As in: Irish or Scottish people aren't watching.

Anyway.. come on Japan.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:36 pm

burnleychris wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:17 pm
Go back to school.

What's the problem?
Is it yet another law, vegans and/or non-vaccinated people may not watch the World Cup or just more evidence of your stupid, idle prejudice?

"Go back to school.." Ffs. :lol:

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:37 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:36 pm
What's the problem?
Is it yet another law, vegans and/or non-vaccinated people may not watch the World Cup or just more evidence of your stupid, idle prejudice?

"Go back to school.." Ffs. :lol:
It means you're a bit thick and you don't understand the original post.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:46 pm

I understand your original post in which you claim, idiotic ally, that people who happen to be vegans or anti vaxxers will be proud to announce they are not watching.
I just wonder what you're basing this nugget of wisdom on?
Is it all vegans and anti vaxxers?
Some of them?
No, you haven't a clue. You've tried to make a snarky, lazy comment and screwed up.
Maybe, just maybe, if you've no idea what you're talking about or even figures to back your claims up, it'd be best for you to keep your bullc rap to yourself.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by burnleychris » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:49 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:46 pm
I understand your original post in which you claim, idiotic ally, that people who happen to be vegans or anti vaxxers will be proud to announce they are not watching.
I just wonder what you're basing this nugget of wisdom on?
Is it all vegans and anti vaxxers?
Some of them?
No, you haven't a clue. You've tried to make a snarky, lazy comment and screwed up.
Maybe, just maybe, if you've no idea what you're talking about or even figures to back your claims up, it'd be best for you to keep your bullc rap to yourself.
Stop being thick! It really isn't difficult to grasp.
Last edited by burnleychris on Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Winstonswhite » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:50 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:45 pm
This is a good example of how things are framed against giving Southgate credit. We quickly write off a win against Germany stating they arent the Germany they used to be but then think of Spain as a much better win when the 90's Spain teams had the following record

1990 - Last 16
1992 - Did not Qualify
1994 - Quarter Finals
1996 - Quarter Finals
1998 - Group Stage

Also we were outplayed by Spain who has a good goal disallowed and we only beat them on penalties where as we beat Germany by a couple of goals in 90 mins
All these games mentioned, we were favourites at kick off, mainly due to the fact they were being played at Wembley.

The only game that I can think of is vs France in 82 who will have been one of the favourites for the cup and we beat them with Robsons goal after 27 seconds.

The fact is we never win as underdogs and that has to change eventually.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by KRBFC » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:13 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:37 pm
To be fair, I didn't read much whining but did see an amount of fair and justified misgivings at our lame start when, as even you could spot, we were slow and starting to give the ball away cheaply. This, being a football forum, had posts reflecting that.
As it turned out, of course, we avoided disaster by stepping it up a tad, as asked for by many on here, and got the rewards and I'm delighted we did. I'm not the Super England fan that you've suddenly hatched into but hey ho, I can appreciate a good overall performance when I see it.

Nothing political about that, surely. :lol:
I think what you said is reasonable, fair and I agree.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by KRBFC » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:16 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm
England have now scored 24 goals in the last two World Cups under Gareth Safegate - exactly as many as they scored in the five previous World Cups combined.
but he's too defensive and negative.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:18 pm

burnleychris wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:49 pm
Stop being thick! It really isn't difficult to grasp.
All too easy to grasp, Frank, or whoever you are.
You're prone to making idle, stupid comments about folk who support causes you don't and don't like being challenged about it.
It's probably what got you kicked off the board last time. ;)

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:23 pm

How many new accounts can one person have? Man must have bare email addresses.




.

Moderator: Unfortunately, this thread will now be locked. There are far too many people taking the thread off topic, and yet again, several posters have taken digs at other uses of the messageboard. If you have serious concerns about a particular post, please REPORT IT.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by fidelcastro » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:26 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:23 pm
How many new accounts can one person have? Man must have bare email addresses.
Sad isn't it?

That despite being banned, he resurfaces to annoy everyone, just to get his kicks and talk crap.

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Re: England v Senegal WC R16

Post by Bosscat » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:26 pm

Wow England win 3-0 get to the quarter finals and its still a d!ck waving contest on here ...

Bloody hell people 🤣🤣🤣
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